My hot take - if you own an AR-15 you have a few loose screws

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In reading the news reports, the bad guy could have been in the classroom with a baseball bat and a fake gun and done as much damage because the cops refused to enter for an hour.

So much for Texans being tough and all that. What a terrible fiasco for everyone.

absolutely not. Damage from AR15 is horrific, way worse than a normal handgun, a knife or baseball bat. Ask doctors who have treated AR15 victims.

I mean to say that the 18 year old could have killed those all kids with a bat (or a knife or a shotgun or literally anything else), as well as those two women, because he had all the time in the world to do it. I'm not saying don't ban AR-15's because I don't care for guns. I'm saying that he had all the time in the world because the police didn't intervene.

This is ridiculous.

If it were a knife or baseball bat:

- people can easily run away, because they can only be killed at close range. A guy with a knife isn't going to kill someone down the hall.
- 2-3 teachers could have easily overpowered a skinny 18 year old with a knife or bat
- people are far more likely to survive a knife or blunt force trauma wound
- Police would not have waited an hour, one cop with a gun can very easily take out a guy with a bat. Hell, even a taser will take out a guy with a knife.

I'm so sick of the "well they'll just use knives!" argument. No, knives are not as deadly as firearms.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:After seeing the incompetence of the police in this situation and so many others like it, how can you possibly leave your family’s safety and security to anyone but yourself? After all, can you blame a human being for exhibiting fear in a fearful situation? When they have a spouse and children to come home to as well?

We own a lot of firearms and my husband is in the industry. Unfortunately, the police aren’t trained nearly as much as you’d think. I believe they have to get their recertification every 3 years. Some of them won’t practice at all during that time. My DH is at the range weekly and is a range safety officer as well as a licensed instructor, though that isn’t his primary job. He’s certified so that he can take executives and inexperienced people to the range and know how to give them the basics. I know that there are those on this board who like to paint a picture of the typical firearm owner as being some loaner in his basement plotting to take over the world but I assure you that 100+ million households would prove otherwise. These are people from every walk of life, ethnicity, background, social class, religion, political persuasion.

It's a pretty easy fix. Gun reform and police reform. And I say this as someone who was married to LEO. Who, BTW, also supported gun and police reform.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:majority of mass shooting are from handguns

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2022/02/03/what-the-data-says-about-gun-deaths-in-the-u-s/

Which is why we need to address this complex issue from multiple angles.

The common sense thread has good ideas.

It wasn't complex in Australia or Scotland. There was a mass shooting, the people said nope, laws were passed and it didn't happen again.

Right. We need more than just a ban on AR-15s.

That won’t solve all of our problems with gun violence.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a Republican and a Trump voter and I agree with you 100% OP. There is no reason these things should exist in the hands of civilian, everyday people. PP's analogy to owning a personal stock of nuclear weapons or grenades is a good one.

PS - I believe that we should start holding the gun manufacturers more responsible.

DP... I get that most people aren't one issue voters, but the R party has just gone of the deepend in many ways, and gun control, especially wrt assault rifles, is one of them.

Even the Bushes have turned their backs on the NRA.

-former R

Well baby Bush is the one who unleashed assault weapons back into circulation when he let the ban lapse. At the time they were banned there were ~ 20-30k in circulation. When his Republican Congress failed to reinstate it, W was like 🤷🏻‍♂️ IIRC less than ten years later there were ~ 500k in circulation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In reading the news reports, the bad guy could have been in the classroom with a baseball bat and a fake gun and done as much damage because the cops refused to enter for an hour.

So much for Texans being tough and all that. What a terrible fiasco for everyone.

absolutely not. Damage from AR15 is horrific, way worse than a normal handgun, a knife or baseball bat. Ask doctors who have treated AR15 victims.

I mean to say that the 18 year old could have killed those all kids with a bat (or a knife or a shotgun or literally anything else), as well as those two women, because he had all the time in the world to do it. I'm not saying don't ban AR-15's because I don't care for guns. I'm saying that he had all the time in the world because the police didn't intervene.

This is ridiculous.

If it were a knife or baseball bat:

- people can easily run away, because they can only be killed at close range. A guy with a knife isn't going to kill someone down the hall.
- 2-3 teachers could have easily overpowered a skinny 18 year old with a knife or bat
- people are far more likely to survive a knife or blunt force trauma wound
- Police would not have waited an hour, one cop with a gun can very easily take out a guy with a bat. Hell, even a taser will take out a guy with a knife.

I'm so sick of the "well they'll just use knives!" argument. No, knives are not as deadly as firearms.

+1. We'll take our chances with the knives, thanks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:After seeing the incompetence of the police in this situation and so many others like it, how can you possibly leave your family’s safety and security to anyone but yourself? After all, can you blame a human being for exhibiting fear in a fearful situation? When they have a spouse and children to come home to as well?

We own a lot of firearms and my husband is in the industry. Unfortunately, the police aren’t trained nearly as much as you’d think. I believe they have to get their recertification every 3 years. Some of them won’t practice at all during that time. My DH is at the range weekly and is a range safety officer as well as a licensed instructor, though that isn’t his primary job. He’s certified so that he can take executives and inexperienced people to the range and know how to give them the basics. I know that there are those on this board who like to paint a picture of the typical firearm owner as being some loaner in his basement plotting to take over the world but I assure you that 100+ million households would prove otherwise. These are people from every walk of life, ethnicity, background, social class, religion, political persuasion.

What are you arguing for here, exactly?

It's handwaving in order to distract.

[Anonymous]

For those who say we won't do anything about it, what would you like us blue staters to do? I've donated money, marched, called and emailed my representatives, and done letter writing campaigns for elections. Give me more to do and I will do it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a Republican and a Trump voter and I agree with you 100% OP. There is no reason these things should exist in the hands of civilian, everyday people. PP's analogy to owning a personal stock of nuclear weapons or grenades is a good one.

PS - I believe that we should start holding the gun manufacturers more responsible.

DP... I get that most people aren't one issue voters, but the R party has just gone of the deepend in many ways, and gun control, especially wrt assault rifles, is one of them.

Even the Bushes have turned their backs on the NRA.

-former R

Well baby Bush is the one who unleashed assault weapons back into circulation when he let the ban lapse. At the time they were banned there were ~ 20-30k in circulation. When his Republican Congress failed to reinstate it, W was like 🤷🏻‍♂️ IIRC less than ten years later there were ~ 500k in circulation.

ok, sure, but like I said, even the Bushes have turned their backs away from the NRA.

And I'm willing to bet that they would be very much willing to put in more strict gun laws now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a Republican and a Trump voter and I agree with you 100% OP. There is no reason these things should exist in the hands of civilian, everyday people. PP's analogy to owning a personal stock of nuclear weapons or grenades is a good one.

PS - I believe that we should start holding the gun manufacturers more responsible.

DP... I get that most people aren't one issue voters, but the R party has just gone of the deepend in many ways, and gun control, especially wrt assault rifles, is one of them.

Even the Bushes have turned their backs on the NRA.

-former R

Well baby Bush is the one who unleashed assault weapons back into circulation when he let the ban lapse. At the time they were banned there were ~ 20-30k in circulation. When his Republican Congress failed to reinstate it, W was like 🤷🏻‍♂️ IIRC less than ten years later there were ~ 500k in circulation.

The next time GWB is interviewed someone should ask him if he regrets letting it lapse. Really stick it to him and remind him of his grandbabies who are probably getting close in age to the Texas victims. Hell his daughter was a school teacher

[Anonymous]

I know a dozen people with AR15s. None of them have a screw loose except my brother, and he’s not dangerous, just a religious fundamentalist.

They are really fun to shoot, so I can see the appeal for sport. I’ve shot one a few times. I’d be happy if they were banned tomorrow, but it’s disengenuous to infer anyone who has one is a lunatic. It also makes you seem really closed-minded. It would be much more effective to say “hey, I know this thing is fun and I can see the appeal, but it’s currently impossible to keep schools safe right now with them readily available…why don’t we close down sales of assault weapons and meanwhile use that 100 billion of unused COVID relief school have just sitting there to update safety measures and hire more and better trained security at the same time.”

[Anonymous]

For those who don’t want to click through, the red line is when the assault weapons ban expired.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I know a dozen people with AR15s. None of them have a screw loose except my brother, and he’s not dangerous, just a religious fundamentalist.

They are really fun to shoot, so I can see the appeal for sport. I’ve shot one a few times. I’d be happy if they were banned tomorrow, but it’s disengenuous to infer anyone who has one is a lunatic. It also makes you seem really closed-minded. It would be much more effective to say “hey, I know this thing is fun and I can see the appeal, but it’s currently impossible to keep schools safe right now with them readily available…why don’t we close down sales of assault weapons and meanwhile use that 100 billion of unused COVID relief school have just sitting there to update safety measures and hire more and better trained security at the same time.”

You really think if people just asked nicely that everyone you know who owns an AR-15 would willingly turn it over? I highly doubt that.

[Anonymous]

In WWIi some soldiers had a difficult time shooting their weapon to kill the enemy. My grandfather as a WWII vet respected the power of firearms. He hated fireworks at 4th of July.

My dad was in the Army. Not to be crude, but my father was as tough as they come. He was not an idiot brandishing a gun. He sometimes joked about a cadence he learned from his drill Seargent.

"This rifle is my weapon. This ____ is my gun. One is for shooting. And one is for fun."

[Anonymous]

Is it like a tommy gun gangsters carried during Prohibition era 1920s? Remember in the musical Chicago how the two female leads used the tommy guns as props?

[Anonymous]

Guns are to many men the symbolic equivalent of red-soled Louboutins, they are a cheap purchase of an identity that is the shortcut past actually being a man (or woman). Guns signal toughness, manliness, brutality, etc. When you are a young man living in 2022 without a war to fight, a woman to woo or a house to build, how else is your manhood tested? How can you be sure you’re a real man? No one expects anything from you, just don’t be in the way.

Check out gun commercials if you want to know how aspirational masculinity is packaged for a generation grown up without fathers.