What were your DC’s top schools they were deciding between and where are they committing?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Down to Brown and Northwestern. Still deciding.

Brown, definitely. Not even close.

Northwestern, without question. Not even close.

hahahaha. they are both great and both have something the other doesn't.

NU offers way more in content and industry connections for the major. Better food and dorms. BUT, that music school restriction is killing her. She'd have to declare a 2nd major just to take theory classes and still wouldn't get faculty instrument lessons. She'd have to audition, get accepted and do a 5 year dual degree to get the lessons, and that would come w/ extra ensembles and classes. If there was a way she could do the BA Music as a double major and be allowed to get lessons, that might sway her. NU outranks Brown on some lists.

Brown was her dream school. LOVES the open curriculum. Major offerings are meager, and hers is the one (or one of few) department they don't let UGs take grad courses. But, she would definitely double and possibly triple major there. And, Brown is probably better for her secondary interests. She has many interests! So, now she needs to find out if/how she can supplement the main major w/ study abroad or summer programs, and if Brown will help financially w/ that. Brown has been better on FA so far. Not jazzed about the dorms/food there. Students seem more deep thinking and less superficial at Brown, but that is just casual observation. She would find her people at NU as well. And, then there's the Ivy status. DH and I are from no-name schools, so we're thrilled w/ all the choices, but having a kid at an Ivy would be cool. Not gonna lie.

As a former music major and an amauter musican now, when looking for a place to study music, its all about the teacher you will study with, and becoming a music double major just to take theory classes isn't worth it. Also important is playing the music school ensembles. If NU will not let her study with the music school's professor for her instrument, or let her play in the school's main ensembles (which I suspect is the case) without being a one major music major, she should think twice about choosing NU if she really wants to continue to pursue music in college. Even if she does the double major, the scheduling of classes could be difficult between the requirements for the 2 majors. An alternative is to see if the music professor has a private studio she can join, or find another teacher in Chicago and take lessons outside of college- there are lots of musicians in Chicago offering lessons. And there are plenty of summer music program for college students to supplement ensemble playing.
Both schools are excellent- congrats to your DD and good luck with your choice.

Double majoring in Music and anything else has been done at NU for decades. I graduated in 80s with an engineering and music performance degree back when not many did it. Now it's extremely common. the most challenging part would be getting into the music major and realizing that the first 2 years of the music major your group of 100-120 students is a cohort---you take Music history together both years, and break out into 4-5 music theory groups. As a non-major there are basic Theory and history Classes available. And yes, NU doesn't typically let non-majors study with a music professor for private lessons unless there is space in their studio. NU is a TOP 5 university for music, it compares with Eastman/Julliard/Curtis/etc. NU is not a university that just has a music major---NU seriously competes with the Music conservatories in the US, and who is "better" largely depends upon the individual professor. NU will have top Grad students your student could take private lessons with for probably $100 or less per lesson---much cheaper than paying for a quarter of 1 class at NU tuition, and if you don't want to be a music major, those grad students are TOP notch. You are allowed to perform in certain ensembles as a non-major---and those ensembles (concert band/sympohonic band/chamber orchestra) are better than the top ensembles at many universities.

So while you might be able to study with the same prof at brown university for your instrument as music majors, I've never heard of anyone attending Brown university that's serious about a music performance degree.

Thanks for his perspective. The issue (one of the issues!) is, she's no longer very interested in a music performance degree. Just wants theory/ear training as a basis for Composition minor as well as good lessons. Current teacher is Juilliard grad and head of dept at UMD. The classes w/ grads at NU are through the university, and, while they will tier voice for non-majors and offer faculty for upper tiers, they will not tier instruments, so only 100 level offered. The music dept office at NU was iffy about whether grad teachers would meet her needs. Do you know students in the grad programs? I think if she chooses NU, she tries the grad lessons, and sees how it goes for semester. Maybe, once there, an exception could be made or we can arrange private study w/ a faculty member if grad lessons are not a good fit. But, that still leaves the music theory problem. I hear you on Brown, it's not a conservatory, but wouldn't the name attract some good adjunct faculty?

I don't personally know any current grad students, but may I ask what instrument?

And yes, on the Brown website, I cannot even easily determine who teaches what instrument. The quality of music will be much higher at NU, even if it's privates with Grad students. Or if not an NU teacher, someone in the Chicago music scene---there are tons of musicians in the Chicago area, not just those at the Chicago Symphony. But most professors at NU do teach private lessons outside of just NU music majors on their own. So that would always be an option. If she is that good, she should be able to audition and become a music minor, for a composition degree. It's at least worth a shot.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Down to Brown and Northwestern. Still deciding.

Brown, definitely. Not even close.

Northwestern, without question. Not even close.

hahahaha. they are both great and both have something the other doesn't.

NU offers way more in content and industry connections for the major. Better food and dorms. BUT, that music school restriction is killing her. She'd have to declare a 2nd major just to take theory classes and still wouldn't get faculty instrument lessons. She'd have to audition, get accepted and do a 5 year dual degree to get the lessons, and that would come w/ extra ensembles and classes. If there was a way she could do the BA Music as a double major and be allowed to get lessons, that might sway her. NU outranks Brown on some lists.

Brown was her dream school. LOVES the open curriculum. Major offerings are meager, and hers is the one (or one of few) department they don't let UGs take grad courses. But, she would definitely double and possibly triple major there. And, Brown is probably better for her secondary interests. She has many interests! So, now she needs to find out if/how she can supplement the main major w/ study abroad or summer programs, and if Brown will help financially w/ that. Brown has been better on FA so far. Not jazzed about the dorms/food there. Students seem more deep thinking and less superficial at Brown, but that is just casual observation. She would find her people at NU as well. And, then there's the Ivy status. DH and I are from no-name schools, so we're thrilled w/ all the choices, but having a kid at an Ivy would be cool. Not gonna lie.

As a former music major and an amauter musican now, when looking for a place to study music, its all about the teacher you will study with, and becoming a music double major just to take theory classes isn't worth it. Also important is playing the music school ensembles. If NU will not let her study with the music school's professor for her instrument, or let her play in the school's main ensembles (which I suspect is the case) without being a one major music major, she should think twice about choosing NU if she really wants to continue to pursue music in college. Even if she does the double major, the scheduling of classes could be difficult between the requirements for the 2 majors. An alternative is to see if the music professor has a private studio she can join, or find another teacher in Chicago and take lessons outside of college- there are lots of musicians in Chicago offering lessons. And there are plenty of summer music program for college students to supplement ensemble playing.
Both schools are excellent- congrats to your DD and good luck with your choice.

Thank you for this perspective. Yes. We have been thinking about seeing if faculty would do private lessons. the theory is for composing. She had wanted to do a composing minor (&keep up the instrument lessons), but, while those classes are open to non-majors, the foundational theory classes are not! The office people were nice with workarounds about declaring/dropping a major or using the theory + composing to build most of a BA. Her other major os theatre, and the idea was to use this towards building a musical. So aggravating that the music department is so exclusive. This must cost them some students. We know a lot of STEM majors who are excellent musicians.

NU is very exclusive for music. As a former STEM and Music major at NU, I definately feel it's worth it. When I attended, most people did the BA and some music degree, only a very few could complete the Engineering and Music degrees, as it was 6 years worth of classes to be done in 5 years. Now many many students do both.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Down to Brown and Northwestern. Still deciding.

Brown, definitely. Not even close.

Northwestern, without question. Not even close.

hahahaha. they are both great and both have something the other doesn't.

NU offers way more in content and industry connections for the major. Better food and dorms. BUT, that music school restriction is killing her. She'd have to declare a 2nd major just to take theory classes and still wouldn't get faculty instrument lessons. She'd have to audition, get accepted and do a 5 year dual degree to get the lessons, and that would come w/ extra ensembles and classes. If there was a way she could do the BA Music as a double major and be allowed to get lessons, that might sway her. NU outranks Brown on some lists.

Brown was her dream school. LOVES the open curriculum. Major offerings are meager, and hers is the one (or one of few) department they don't let UGs take grad courses. But, she would definitely double and possibly triple major there. And, Brown is probably better for her secondary interests. She has many interests! So, now she needs to find out if/how she can supplement the main major w/ study abroad or summer programs, and if Brown will help financially w/ that. Brown has been better on FA so far. Not jazzed about the dorms/food there. Students seem more deep thinking and less superficial at Brown, but that is just casual observation. She would find her people at NU as well. And, then there's the Ivy status. DH and I are from no-name schools, so we're thrilled w/ all the choices, but having a kid at an Ivy would be cool. Not gonna lie.

As a former music major and an amauter musican now, when looking for a place to study music, its all about the teacher you will study with, and becoming a music double major just to take theory classes isn't worth it. Also important is playing the music school ensembles. If NU will not let her study with the music school's professor for her instrument, or let her play in the school's main ensembles (which I suspect is the case) without being a one major music major, she should think twice about choosing NU if she really wants to continue to pursue music in college. Even if she does the double major, the scheduling of classes could be difficult between the requirements for the 2 majors. An alternative is to see if the music professor has a private studio she can join, or find another teacher in Chicago and take lessons outside of college- there are lots of musicians in Chicago offering lessons. And there are plenty of summer music program for college students to supplement ensemble playing.
Both schools are excellent- congrats to your DD and good luck with your choice.

Double majoring in Music and anything else has been done at NU for decades. I graduated in 80s with an engineering and music performance degree back when not many did it. Now it's extremely common. the most challenging part would be getting into the music major and realizing that the first 2 years of the music major your group of 100-120 students is a cohort---you take Music history together both years, and break out into 4-5 music theory groups. As a non-major there are basic Theory and history Classes available. And yes, NU doesn't typically let non-majors study with a music professor for private lessons unless there is space in their studio. NU is a TOP 5 university for music, it compares with Eastman/Julliard/Curtis/etc. NU is not a university that just has a music major---NU seriously competes with the Music conservatories in the US, and who is "better" largely depends upon the individual professor. NU will have top Grad students your student could take private lessons with for probably $100 or less per lesson---much cheaper than paying for a quarter of 1 class at NU tuition, and if you don't want to be a music major, those grad students are TOP notch. You are allowed to perform in certain ensembles as a non-major---and those ensembles (concert band/sympohonic band/chamber orchestra) are better than the top ensembles at many universities.

So while you might be able to study with the same prof at brown university for your instrument as music majors, I've never heard of anyone attending Brown university that's serious about a music performance degree.

Thanks for his perspective. The issue (one of the issues!) is, she's no longer very interested in a music performance degree. Just wants theory/ear training as a basis for Composition minor as well as good lessons. Current teacher is Juilliard grad and head of dept at UMD. The classes w/ grads at NU are through the university, and, while they will tier voice for non-majors and offer faculty for upper tiers, they will not tier instruments, so only 100 level offered. The music dept office at NU was iffy about whether grad teachers would meet her needs. Do you know students in the grad programs? I think if she chooses NU, she tries the grad lessons, and sees how it goes for semester. Maybe, once there, an exception could be made or we can arrange private study w/ a faculty member if grad lessons are not a good fit. But, that still leaves the music theory problem. I hear you on Brown, it's not a conservatory, but wouldn't the name attract some good adjunct faculty?

Did she look at Case Western ? amazing opportunities between Case and Cle Institute of Music, which is a top notch conservatory

A little late in the game for a HS senior to be considering a new school. Also, Case, while it's an amazing school, it is not in the same league as NU and Brown overall.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Down to Brown and Northwestern. Still deciding.

Brown, definitely. Not even close.

Northwestern, without question. Not even close.

hahahaha. they are both great and both have something the other doesn't.

NU offers way more in content and industry connections for the major. Better food and dorms. BUT, that music school restriction is killing her. She'd have to declare a 2nd major just to take theory classes and still wouldn't get faculty instrument lessons. She'd have to audition, get accepted and do a 5 year dual degree to get the lessons, and that would come w/ extra ensembles and classes. If there was a way she could do the BA Music as a double major and be allowed to get lessons, that might sway her. NU outranks Brown on some lists.

Brown was her dream school. LOVES the open curriculum. Major offerings are meager, and hers is the one (or one of few) department they don't let UGs take grad courses. But, she would definitely double and possibly triple major there. And, Brown is probably better for her secondary interests. She has many interests! So, now she needs to find out if/how she can supplement the main major w/ study abroad or summer programs, and if Brown will help financially w/ that. Brown has been better on FA so far. Not jazzed about the dorms/food there. Students seem more deep thinking and less superficial at Brown, but that is just casual observation. She would find her people at NU as well. And, then there's the Ivy status. DH and I are from no-name schools, so we're thrilled w/ all the choices, but having a kid at an Ivy would be cool. Not gonna lie.

As a former music major and an amauter musican now, when looking for a place to study music, its all about the teacher you will study with, and becoming a music double major just to take theory classes isn't worth it. Also important is playing the music school ensembles. If NU will not let her study with the music school's professor for her instrument, or let her play in the school's main ensembles (which I suspect is the case) without being a one major music major, she should think twice about choosing NU if she really wants to continue to pursue music in college. Even if she does the double major, the scheduling of classes could be difficult between the requirements for the 2 majors. An alternative is to see if the music professor has a private studio she can join, or find another teacher in Chicago and take lessons outside of college- there are lots of musicians in Chicago offering lessons. And there are plenty of summer music program for college students to supplement ensemble playing.
Both schools are excellent- congrats to your DD and good luck with your choice.

Double majoring in Music and anything else has been done at NU for decades. I graduated in 80s with an engineering and music performance degree back when not many did it. Now it's extremely common. the most challenging part would be getting into the music major and realizing that the first 2 years of the music major your group of 100-120 students is a cohort---you take Music history together both years, and break out into 4-5 music theory groups. As a non-major there are basic Theory and history Classes available. And yes, NU doesn't typically let non-majors study with a music professor for private lessons unless there is space in their studio. NU is a TOP 5 university for music, it compares with Eastman/Julliard/Curtis/etc. NU is not a university that just has a music major---NU seriously competes with the Music conservatories in the US, and who is "better" largely depends upon the individual professor. NU will have top Grad students your student could take private lessons with for probably $100 or less per lesson---much cheaper than paying for a quarter of 1 class at NU tuition, and if you don't want to be a music major, those grad students are TOP notch. You are allowed to perform in certain ensembles as a non-major---and those ensembles (concert band/sympohonic band/chamber orchestra) are better than the top ensembles at many universities.

So while you might be able to study with the same prof at brown university for your instrument as music majors, I've never heard of anyone attending Brown university that's serious about a music performance degree.

Thanks for his perspective. The issue (one of the issues!) is, she's no longer very interested in a music performance degree. Just wants theory/ear training as a basis for Composition minor as well as good lessons. Current teacher is Juilliard grad and head of dept at UMD. The classes w/ grads at NU are through the university, and, while they will tier voice for non-majors and offer faculty for upper tiers, they will not tier instruments, so only 100 level offered. The music dept office at NU was iffy about whether grad teachers would meet her needs. Do you know students in the grad programs? I think if she chooses NU, she tries the grad lessons, and sees how it goes for semester. Maybe, once there, an exception could be made or we can arrange private study w/ a faculty member if grad lessons are not a good fit. But, that still leaves the music theory problem. I hear you on Brown, it's not a conservatory, but wouldn't the name attract some good adjunct faculty?

I’m wondering why she eliminated Hopkins. It seems like Peabody would meet her needs.

Because she doesn't want a music performance degree. Have you all actually read what she wtote?! She wanted a theatre degree with the ability to take some theory and lessons. Hopkins doesn't have a theatre degree, and Peabody is a top school that would not be very open to nonmajor involvement. Terrible idea. Same to the person who suggested Case. Why would she want that? Also, people, she is not looking for new recommendations. She is comparing 2 options. Clearly, she did not dig deep enough into NU to see how restricting Bienen is, but there are ways to make either of her options work. Uninformed ideas are not helpful here.

I think the real question is… does Brown or NU have the better theatre department?

Seriously? That is a no-brainer. NU is top 3 for theater, and top 3-5 for music. So if the theater/music is a real wish, kid should attend there and find a way to make it work. Yes, Theater and Bienen are very competitive, and they don't just let anyone take classes, that's because it is so competitive, and levels above most schools for that

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Down to Brown and Northwestern. Still deciding.

Brown, definitely. Not even close.

Northwestern, without question. Not even close.

hahahaha. they are both great and both have something the other doesn't.

NU offers way more in content and industry connections for the major. Better food and dorms. BUT, that music school restriction is killing her. She'd have to declare a 2nd major just to take theory classes and still wouldn't get faculty instrument lessons. She'd have to audition, get accepted and do a 5 year dual degree to get the lessons, and that would come w/ extra ensembles and classes. If there was a way she could do the BA Music as a double major and be allowed to get lessons, that might sway her. NU outranks Brown on some lists.

Brown was her dream school. LOVES the open curriculum. Major offerings are meager, and hers is the one (or one of few) department they don't let UGs take grad courses. But, she would definitely double and possibly triple major there. And, Brown is probably better for her secondary interests. She has many interests! So, now she needs to find out if/how she can supplement the main major w/ study abroad or summer programs, and if Brown will help financially w/ that. Brown has been better on FA so far. Not jazzed about the dorms/food there. Students seem more deep thinking and less superficial at Brown, but that is just casual observation. She would find her people at NU as well. And, then there's the Ivy status. DH and I are from no-name schools, so we're thrilled w/ all the choices, but having a kid at an Ivy would be cool. Not gonna lie.

As a former music major and an amauter musican now, when looking for a place to study music, its all about the teacher you will study with, and becoming a music double major just to take theory classes isn't worth it. Also important is playing the music school ensembles. If NU will not let her study with the music school's professor for her instrument, or let her play in the school's main ensembles (which I suspect is the case) without being a one major music major, she should think twice about choosing NU if she really wants to continue to pursue music in college. Even if she does the double major, the scheduling of classes could be difficult between the requirements for the 2 majors. An alternative is to see if the music professor has a private studio she can join, or find another teacher in Chicago and take lessons outside of college- there are lots of musicians in Chicago offering lessons. And there are plenty of summer music program for college students to supplement ensemble playing.
Both schools are excellent- congrats to your DD and good luck with your choice.

Double majoring in Music and anything else has been done at NU for decades. I graduated in 80s with an engineering and music performance degree back when not many did it. Now it's extremely common. the most challenging part would be getting into the music major and realizing that the first 2 years of the music major your group of 100-120 students is a cohort---you take Music history together both years, and break out into 4-5 music theory groups. As a non-major there are basic Theory and history Classes available. And yes, NU doesn't typically let non-majors study with a music professor for private lessons unless there is space in their studio. NU is a TOP 5 university for music, it compares with Eastman/Julliard/Curtis/etc. NU is not a university that just has a music major---NU seriously competes with the Music conservatories in the US, and who is "better" largely depends upon the individual professor. NU will have top Grad students your student could take private lessons with for probably $100 or less per lesson---much cheaper than paying for a quarter of 1 class at NU tuition, and if you don't want to be a music major, those grad students are TOP notch. You are allowed to perform in certain ensembles as a non-major---and those ensembles (concert band/sympohonic band/chamber orchestra) are better than the top ensembles at many universities.

So while you might be able to study with the same prof at brown university for your instrument as music majors, I've never heard of anyone attending Brown university that's serious about a music performance degree.

Thanks for his perspective. The issue (one of the issues!) is, she's no longer very interested in a music performance degree. Just wants theory/ear training as a basis for Composition minor as well as good lessons. Current teacher is Juilliard grad and head of dept at UMD. The classes w/ grads at NU are through the university, and, while they will tier voice for non-majors and offer faculty for upper tiers, they will not tier instruments, so only 100 level offered. The music dept office at NU was iffy about whether grad teachers would meet her needs. Do you know students in the grad programs? I think if she chooses NU, she tries the grad lessons, and sees how it goes for semester. Maybe, once there, an exception could be made or we can arrange private study w/ a faculty member if grad lessons are not a good fit. But, that still leaves the music theory problem. I hear you on Brown, it's not a conservatory, but wouldn't the name attract some good adjunct faculty?

I’m wondering why she eliminated Hopkins. It seems like Peabody would meet her needs.

Because she doesn't want a music performance degree. Have you all actually read what she wtote?! She wanted a theatre degree with the ability to take some theory and lessons. Hopkins doesn't have a theatre degree, and Peabody is a top school that would not be very open to nonmajor involvement. Terrible idea. Same to the person who suggested Case. Why would she want that? Also, people, she is not looking for new recommendations. She is comparing 2 options. Clearly, she did not dig deep enough into NU to see how restricting Bienen is, but there are ways to make either of her options work. Uninformed ideas are not helpful here.

I think the real question is… does Brown or NU have the better theatre department?

Northwestern has by far the superior theatre department.

On a separate note, is it just me or are there an abnormal number of kids studying music being talked about in this thread? Or am I getting confused? All this talk about music schools and conservatories and this here, that there. And all this time I thought we were talking about the PP's kid who was deciding between Brown and Northwestern!

I think it's really just mine and another kid, but other people then weigh in on their experiences, so maybe it feels like more? Yes, I agree NU is the clear winner on theatre curriculum and departmental support/connections, but Brown might have potential for opportunities, but she would have to drive it. Brown would be better for her other interests. Hard choices!

I guess I missed that since I didn’t know people actually went to either of those schools for theater.

What do you mean? Northwestern has one of the most prolific theatre departments in the country.

Prolific? It looks to be ranked around 20 or so but in any case, I’m not up on theatre rankings and am surprised people are willing to pay private schools, tuitions for theatre majors outside the tip top programs like Juilliard, Yale and NYU.

Yes prolific. Quick google search will show you a long, long list of people in Hollywood (all aspects from acting, writing, directing, etc) who started at NU. Half (or more than half, I know of at least 3) the late night comedy show hosts are NU grads currently.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Down to Brown and Northwestern. Still deciding.

Brown, definitely. Not even close.

Northwestern, without question. Not even close.

hahahaha. they are both great and both have something the other doesn't.

NU offers way more in content and industry connections for the major. Better food and dorms. BUT, that music school restriction is killing her. She'd have to declare a 2nd major just to take theory classes and still wouldn't get faculty instrument lessons. She'd have to audition, get accepted and do a 5 year dual degree to get the lessons, and that would come w/ extra ensembles and classes. If there was a way she could do the BA Music as a double major and be allowed to get lessons, that might sway her. NU outranks Brown on some lists.

Brown was her dream school. LOVES the open curriculum. Major offerings are meager, and hers is the one (or one of few) department they don't let UGs take grad courses. But, she would definitely double and possibly triple major there. And, Brown is probably better for her secondary interests. She has many interests! So, now she needs to find out if/how she can supplement the main major w/ study abroad or summer programs, and if Brown will help financially w/ that. Brown has been better on FA so far. Not jazzed about the dorms/food there. Students seem more deep thinking and less superficial at Brown, but that is just casual observation. She would find her people at NU as well. And, then there's the Ivy status. DH and I are from no-name schools, so we're thrilled w/ all the choices, but having a kid at an Ivy would be cool. Not gonna lie.

As a former music major and an amauter musican now, when looking for a place to study music, its all about the teacher you will study with, and becoming a music double major just to take theory classes isn't worth it. Also important is playing the music school ensembles. If NU will not let her study with the music school's professor for her instrument, or let her play in the school's main ensembles (which I suspect is the case) without being a one major music major, she should think twice about choosing NU if she really wants to continue to pursue music in college. Even if she does the double major, the scheduling of classes could be difficult between the requirements for the 2 majors. An alternative is to see if the music professor has a private studio she can join, or find another teacher in Chicago and take lessons outside of college- there are lots of musicians in Chicago offering lessons. And there are plenty of summer music program for college students to supplement ensemble playing.
Both schools are excellent- congrats to your DD and good luck with your choice.

Double majoring in Music and anything else has been done at NU for decades. I graduated in 80s with an engineering and music performance degree back when not many did it. Now it's extremely common. the most challenging part would be getting into the music major and realizing that the first 2 years of the music major your group of 100-120 students is a cohort---you take Music history together both years, and break out into 4-5 music theory groups. As a non-major there are basic Theory and history Classes available. And yes, NU doesn't typically let non-majors study with a music professor for private lessons unless there is space in their studio. NU is a TOP 5 university for music, it compares with Eastman/Julliard/Curtis/etc. NU is not a university that just has a music major---NU seriously competes with the Music conservatories in the US, and who is "better" largely depends upon the individual professor. NU will have top Grad students your student could take private lessons with for probably $100 or less per lesson---much cheaper than paying for a quarter of 1 class at NU tuition, and if you don't want to be a music major, those grad students are TOP notch. You are allowed to perform in certain ensembles as a non-major---and those ensembles (concert band/sympohonic band/chamber orchestra) are better than the top ensembles at many universities.

So while you might be able to study with the same prof at brown university for your instrument as music majors, I've never heard of anyone attending Brown university that's serious about a music performance degree.

Thanks for his perspective. The issue (one of the issues!) is, she's no longer very interested in a music performance degree. Just wants theory/ear training as a basis for Composition minor as well as good lessons. Current teacher is Juilliard grad and head of dept at UMD. The classes w/ grads at NU are through the university, and, while they will tier voice for non-majors and offer faculty for upper tiers, they will not tier instruments, so only 100 level offered. The music dept office at NU was iffy about whether grad teachers would meet her needs. Do you know students in the grad programs? I think if she chooses NU, she tries the grad lessons, and sees how it goes for semester. Maybe, once there, an exception could be made or we can arrange private study w/ a faculty member if grad lessons are not a good fit. But, that still leaves the music theory problem. I hear you on Brown, it's not a conservatory, but wouldn't the name attract some good adjunct faculty?

I’m wondering why she eliminated Hopkins. It seems like Peabody would meet her needs.

Because she doesn't want a music performance degree. Have you all actually read what she wtote?! She wanted a theatre degree with the ability to take some theory and lessons. Hopkins doesn't have a theatre degree, and Peabody is a top school that would not be very open to nonmajor involvement. Terrible idea. Same to the person who suggested Case. Why would she want that? Also, people, she is not looking for new recommendations. She is comparing 2 options. Clearly, she did not dig deep enough into NU to see how restricting Bienen is, but there are ways to make either of her options work. Uninformed ideas are not helpful here.

I think the real question is… does Brown or NU have the better theatre department?

Northwestern has by far the superior theatre department.

On a separate note, is it just me or are there an abnormal number of kids studying music being talked about in this thread? Or am I getting confused? All this talk about music schools and conservatories and this here, that there. And all this time I thought we were talking about the PP's kid who was deciding between Brown and Northwestern!

I think it's really just mine and another kid, but other people then weigh in on their experiences, so maybe it feels like more? Yes, I agree NU is the clear winner on theatre curriculum and departmental support/connections, but Brown might have potential for opportunities, but she would have to drive it. Brown would be better for her other interests. Hard choices!

I guess I missed that since I didn’t know people actually went to either of those schools for theater.

What do you mean? Northwestern has one of the most prolific theatre departments in the country.

Prolific? It looks to be ranked around 20 or so but in any case, I’m not up on theatre rankings and am surprised people are willing to pay private schools, tuitions for theatre majors outside the tip top programs like Juilliard, Yale and NYU.

Tell me you don't know anything about theatre without telling me you don't know anything about theatre. And NU is a dream school for plenty of theatre nerds across the country. I think rankings are dumb and ineffectual for a field like this, but fwiw Niche ranks Northwestern #1 for performing arts in the country.

https://www.niche.com/colleges/search/best-colleges-for-theater/

NU has theater majors make it to the big time while still in undergrad---Father of the Bride started Kimberly Williams career--think she was a sophomore at the time---I lived in a dorm with theater kids who were friends with her, it was a huge deal

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Down to Brown and Northwestern. Still deciding.

Brown, definitely. Not even close.

Northwestern, without question. Not even close.

hahahaha. they are both great and both have something the other doesn't.

NU offers way more in content and industry connections for the major. Better food and dorms. BUT, that music school restriction is killing her. She'd have to declare a 2nd major just to take theory classes and still wouldn't get faculty instrument lessons. She'd have to audition, get accepted and do a 5 year dual degree to get the lessons, and that would come w/ extra ensembles and classes. If there was a way she could do the BA Music as a double major and be allowed to get lessons, that might sway her. NU outranks Brown on some lists.

Brown was her dream school. LOVES the open curriculum. Major offerings are meager, and hers is the one (or one of few) department they don't let UGs take grad courses. But, she would definitely double and possibly triple major there. And, Brown is probably better for her secondary interests. She has many interests! So, now she needs to find out if/how she can supplement the main major w/ study abroad or summer programs, and if Brown will help financially w/ that. Brown has been better on FA so far. Not jazzed about the dorms/food there. Students seem more deep thinking and less superficial at Brown, but that is just casual observation. She would find her people at NU as well. And, then there's the Ivy status. DH and I are from no-name schools, so we're thrilled w/ all the choices, but having a kid at an Ivy would be cool. Not gonna lie.

As a former music major and an amauter musican now, when looking for a place to study music, its all about the teacher you will study with, and becoming a music double major just to take theory classes isn't worth it. Also important is playing the music school ensembles. If NU will not let her study with the music school's professor for her instrument, or let her play in the school's main ensembles (which I suspect is the case) without being a one major music major, she should think twice about choosing NU if she really wants to continue to pursue music in college. Even if she does the double major, the scheduling of classes could be difficult between the requirements for the 2 majors. An alternative is to see if the music professor has a private studio she can join, or find another teacher in Chicago and take lessons outside of college- there are lots of musicians in Chicago offering lessons. And there are plenty of summer music program for college students to supplement ensemble playing.
Both schools are excellent- congrats to your DD and good luck with your choice.

Double majoring in Music and anything else has been done at NU for decades. I graduated in 80s with an engineering and music performance degree back when not many did it. Now it's extremely common. the most challenging part would be getting into the music major and realizing that the first 2 years of the music major your group of 100-120 students is a cohort---you take Music history together both years, and break out into 4-5 music theory groups. As a non-major there are basic Theory and history Classes available. And yes, NU doesn't typically let non-majors study with a music professor for private lessons unless there is space in their studio. NU is a TOP 5 university for music, it compares with Eastman/Julliard/Curtis/etc. NU is not a university that just has a music major---NU seriously competes with the Music conservatories in the US, and who is "better" largely depends upon the individual professor. NU will have top Grad students your student could take private lessons with for probably $100 or less per lesson---much cheaper than paying for a quarter of 1 class at NU tuition, and if you don't want to be a music major, those grad students are TOP notch. You are allowed to perform in certain ensembles as a non-major---and those ensembles (concert band/sympohonic band/chamber orchestra) are better than the top ensembles at many universities.

So while you might be able to study with the same prof at brown university for your instrument as music majors, I've never heard of anyone attending Brown university that's serious about a music performance degree.

Thanks for his perspective. The issue (one of the issues!) is, she's no longer very interested in a music performance degree. Just wants theory/ear training as a basis for Composition minor as well as good lessons. Current teacher is Juilliard grad and head of dept at UMD. The classes w/ grads at NU are through the university, and, while they will tier voice for non-majors and offer faculty for upper tiers, they will not tier instruments, so only 100 level offered. The music dept office at NU was iffy about whether grad teachers would meet her needs. Do you know students in the grad programs? I think if she chooses NU, she tries the grad lessons, and sees how it goes for semester. Maybe, once there, an exception could be made or we can arrange private study w/ a faculty member if grad lessons are not a good fit. But, that still leaves the music theory problem. I hear you on Brown, it's not a conservatory, but wouldn't the name attract some good adjunct faculty?

I’m wondering why she eliminated Hopkins. It seems like Peabody would meet her needs.

Because she doesn't want a music performance degree. Have you all actually read what she wtote?! She wanted a theatre degree with the ability to take some theory and lessons. Hopkins doesn't have a theatre degree, and Peabody is a top school that would not be very open to nonmajor involvement. Terrible idea. Same to the person who suggested Case. Why would she want that? Also, people, she is not looking for new recommendations. She is comparing 2 options. Clearly, she did not dig deep enough into NU to see how restricting Bienen is, but there are ways to make either of her options work. Uninformed ideas are not helpful here.

I think the real question is… does Brown or NU have the better theatre department?

Northwestern has by far the superior theatre department.

On a separate note, is it just me or are there an abnormal number of kids studying music being talked about in this thread? Or am I getting confused? All this talk about music schools and conservatories and this here, that there. And all this time I thought we were talking about the PP's kid who was deciding between Brown and Northwestern!

I think it's really just mine and another kid, but other people then weigh in on their experiences, so maybe it feels like more? Yes, I agree NU is the clear winner on theatre curriculum and departmental support/connections, but Brown might have potential for opportunities, but she would have to drive it. Brown would be better for her other interests. Hard choices!

I guess I missed that since I didn’t know people actually went to either of those schools for theater.

What do you mean? Northwestern has one of the most prolific theatre departments in the country.

Prolific? It looks to be ranked around 20 or so but in any case, I’m not up on theatre rankings and am surprised people are willing to pay private schools, tuitions for theatre majors outside the tip top programs like Juilliard, Yale and NYU.

Tell me you don't know anything about theatre without telling me you don't know anything about theatre. And NU is a dream school for plenty of theatre nerds across the country. I think rankings are dumb and ineffectual for a field like this, but fwiw Niche ranks Northwestern #1 for performing arts in the country.

https://www.niche.com/colleges/search/best-colleges-for-theater/

I admittedly know nothing about theater, but I do know not to use Niche for anything. I googled and got this list https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/lists/25-best-drama-schools-ranked/. Brown is 10 and Northwestern 21.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Down to Brown and Northwestern. Still deciding.

Brown, definitely. Not even close.

Northwestern, without question. Not even close.

hahahaha. they are both great and both have something the other doesn't.

NU offers way more in content and industry connections for the major. Better food and dorms. BUT, that music school restriction is killing her. She'd have to declare a 2nd major just to take theory classes and still wouldn't get faculty instrument lessons. She'd have to audition, get accepted and do a 5 year dual degree to get the lessons, and that would come w/ extra ensembles and classes. If there was a way she could do the BA Music as a double major and be allowed to get lessons, that might sway her. NU outranks Brown on some lists.

Brown was her dream school. LOVES the open curriculum. Major offerings are meager, and hers is the one (or one of few) department they don't let UGs take grad courses. But, she would definitely double and possibly triple major there. And, Brown is probably better for her secondary interests. She has many interests! So, now she needs to find out if/how she can supplement the main major w/ study abroad or summer programs, and if Brown will help financially w/ that. Brown has been better on FA so far. Not jazzed about the dorms/food there. Students seem more deep thinking and less superficial at Brown, but that is just casual observation. She would find her people at NU as well. And, then there's the Ivy status. DH and I are from no-name schools, so we're thrilled w/ all the choices, but having a kid at an Ivy would be cool. Not gonna lie.

As a former music major and an amauter musican now, when looking for a place to study music, its all about the teacher you will study with, and becoming a music double major just to take theory classes isn't worth it. Also important is playing the music school ensembles. If NU will not let her study with the music school's professor for her instrument, or let her play in the school's main ensembles (which I suspect is the case) without being a one major music major, she should think twice about choosing NU if she really wants to continue to pursue music in college. Even if she does the double major, the scheduling of classes could be difficult between the requirements for the 2 majors. An alternative is to see if the music professor has a private studio she can join, or find another teacher in Chicago and take lessons outside of college- there are lots of musicians in Chicago offering lessons. And there are plenty of summer music program for college students to supplement ensemble playing.
Both schools are excellent- congrats to your DD and good luck with your choice.

Double majoring in Music and anything else has been done at NU for decades. I graduated in 80s with an engineering and music performance degree back when not many did it. Now it's extremely common. the most challenging part would be getting into the music major and realizing that the first 2 years of the music major your group of 100-120 students is a cohort---you take Music history together both years, and break out into 4-5 music theory groups. As a non-major there are basic Theory and history Classes available. And yes, NU doesn't typically let non-majors study with a music professor for private lessons unless there is space in their studio. NU is a TOP 5 university for music, it compares with Eastman/Julliard/Curtis/etc. NU is not a university that just has a music major---NU seriously competes with the Music conservatories in the US, and who is "better" largely depends upon the individual professor. NU will have top Grad students your student could take private lessons with for probably $100 or less per lesson---much cheaper than paying for a quarter of 1 class at NU tuition, and if you don't want to be a music major, those grad students are TOP notch. You are allowed to perform in certain ensembles as a non-major---and those ensembles (concert band/sympohonic band/chamber orchestra) are better than the top ensembles at many universities.

So while you might be able to study with the same prof at brown university for your instrument as music majors, I've never heard of anyone attending Brown university that's serious about a music performance degree.

Thanks for his perspective. The issue (one of the issues!) is, she's no longer very interested in a music performance degree. Just wants theory/ear training as a basis for Composition minor as well as good lessons. Current teacher is Juilliard grad and head of dept at UMD. The classes w/ grads at NU are through the university, and, while they will tier voice for non-majors and offer faculty for upper tiers, they will not tier instruments, so only 100 level offered. The music dept office at NU was iffy about whether grad teachers would meet her needs. Do you know students in the grad programs? I think if she chooses NU, she tries the grad lessons, and sees how it goes for semester. Maybe, once there, an exception could be made or we can arrange private study w/ a faculty member if grad lessons are not a good fit. But, that still leaves the music theory problem. I hear you on Brown, it's not a conservatory, but wouldn't the name attract some good adjunct faculty?

I’m wondering why she eliminated Hopkins. It seems like Peabody would meet her needs.

Because she doesn't want a music performance degree. Have you all actually read what she wtote?! She wanted a theatre degree with the ability to take some theory and lessons. Hopkins doesn't have a theatre degree, and Peabody is a top school that would not be very open to nonmajor involvement. Terrible idea. Same to the person who suggested Case. Why would she want that? Also, people, she is not looking for new recommendations. She is comparing 2 options. Clearly, she did not dig deep enough into NU to see how restricting Bienen is, but there are ways to make either of her options work. Uninformed ideas are not helpful here.

I think the real question is… does Brown or NU have the better theatre department?

Northwestern has by far the superior theatre department.

On a separate note, is it just me or are there an abnormal number of kids studying music being talked about in this thread? Or am I getting confused? All this talk about music schools and conservatories and this here, that there. And all this time I thought we were talking about the PP's kid who was deciding between Brown and Northwestern!

I think it's really just mine and another kid, but other people then weigh in on their experiences, so maybe it feels like more? Yes, I agree NU is the clear winner on theatre curriculum and departmental support/connections, but Brown might have potential for opportunities, but she would have to drive it. Brown would be better for her other interests. Hard choices!

I guess I missed that since I didn’t know people actually went to either of those schools for theater.

What do you mean? Northwestern has one of the most prolific theatre departments in the country.

Prolific? It looks to be ranked around 20 or so but in any case, I’m not up on theatre rankings and am surprised people are willing to pay private schools, tuitions for theatre majors outside the tip top programs like Juilliard, Yale and NYU.

But, you would shell out for a history degree, right?

-- signed history BA who would have bern more qualified to work out of college with a theatre degree (got that later)!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Down to Brown and Northwestern. Still deciding.

Brown, definitely. Not even close.

Northwestern, without question. Not even close.

hahahaha. they are both great and both have something the other doesn't.

NU offers way more in content and industry connections for the major. Better food and dorms. BUT, that music school restriction is killing her. She'd have to declare a 2nd major just to take theory classes and still wouldn't get faculty instrument lessons. She'd have to audition, get accepted and do a 5 year dual degree to get the lessons, and that would come w/ extra ensembles and classes. If there was a way she could do the BA Music as a double major and be allowed to get lessons, that might sway her. NU outranks Brown on some lists.

Brown was her dream school. LOVES the open curriculum. Major offerings are meager, and hers is the one (or one of few) department they don't let UGs take grad courses. But, she would definitely double and possibly triple major there. And, Brown is probably better for her secondary interests. She has many interests! So, now she needs to find out if/how she can supplement the main major w/ study abroad or summer programs, and if Brown will help financially w/ that. Brown has been better on FA so far. Not jazzed about the dorms/food there. Students seem more deep thinking and less superficial at Brown, but that is just casual observation. She would find her people at NU as well. And, then there's the Ivy status. DH and I are from no-name schools, so we're thrilled w/ all the choices, but having a kid at an Ivy would be cool. Not gonna lie.

As a former music major and an amauter musican now, when looking for a place to study music, its all about the teacher you will study with, and becoming a music double major just to take theory classes isn't worth it. Also important is playing the music school ensembles. If NU will not let her study with the music school's professor for her instrument, or let her play in the school's main ensembles (which I suspect is the case) without being a one major music major, she should think twice about choosing NU if she really wants to continue to pursue music in college. Even if she does the double major, the scheduling of classes could be difficult between the requirements for the 2 majors. An alternative is to see if the music professor has a private studio she can join, or find another teacher in Chicago and take lessons outside of college- there are lots of musicians in Chicago offering lessons. And there are plenty of summer music program for college students to supplement ensemble playing.
Both schools are excellent- congrats to your DD and good luck with your choice.

Double majoring in Music and anything else has been done at NU for decades. I graduated in 80s with an engineering and music performance degree back when not many did it. Now it's extremely common. the most challenging part would be getting into the music major and realizing that the first 2 years of the music major your group of 100-120 students is a cohort---you take Music history together both years, and break out into 4-5 music theory groups. As a non-major there are basic Theory and history Classes available. And yes, NU doesn't typically let non-majors study with a music professor for private lessons unless there is space in their studio. NU is a TOP 5 university for music, it compares with Eastman/Julliard/Curtis/etc. NU is not a university that just has a music major---NU seriously competes with the Music conservatories in the US, and who is "better" largely depends upon the individual professor. NU will have top Grad students your student could take private lessons with for probably $100 or less per lesson---much cheaper than paying for a quarter of 1 class at NU tuition, and if you don't want to be a music major, those grad students are TOP notch. You are allowed to perform in certain ensembles as a non-major---and those ensembles (concert band/sympohonic band/chamber orchestra) are better than the top ensembles at many universities.

So while you might be able to study with the same prof at brown university for your instrument as music majors, I've never heard of anyone attending Brown university that's serious about a music performance degree.

Thanks for his perspective. The issue (one of the issues!) is, she's no longer very interested in a music performance degree. Just wants theory/ear training as a basis for Composition minor as well as good lessons. Current teacher is Juilliard grad and head of dept at UMD. The classes w/ grads at NU are through the university, and, while they will tier voice for non-majors and offer faculty for upper tiers, they will not tier instruments, so only 100 level offered. The music dept office at NU was iffy about whether grad teachers would meet her needs. Do you know students in the grad programs? I think if she chooses NU, she tries the grad lessons, and sees how it goes for semester. Maybe, once there, an exception could be made or we can arrange private study w/ a faculty member if grad lessons are not a good fit. But, that still leaves the music theory problem. I hear you on Brown, it's not a conservatory, but wouldn't the name attract some good adjunct faculty?

I’m wondering why she eliminated Hopkins. It seems like Peabody would meet her needs.

Because she doesn't want a music performance degree. Have you all actually read what she wtote?! She wanted a theatre degree with the ability to take some theory and lessons. Hopkins doesn't have a theatre degree, and Peabody is a top school that would not be very open to nonmajor involvement. Terrible idea. Same to the person who suggested Case. Why would she want that? Also, people, she is not looking for new recommendations. She is comparing 2 options. Clearly, she did not dig deep enough into NU to see how restricting Bienen is, but there are ways to make either of her options work. Uninformed ideas are not helpful here.

I think the real question is… does Brown or NU have the better theatre department?

Northwestern has by far the superior theatre department.

On a separate note, is it just me or are there an abnormal number of kids studying music being talked about in this thread? Or am I getting confused? All this talk about music schools and conservatories and this here, that there. And all this time I thought we were talking about the PP's kid who was deciding between Brown and Northwestern!

I think it's really just mine and another kid, but other people then weigh in on their experiences, so maybe it feels like more? Yes, I agree NU is the clear winner on theatre curriculum and departmental support/connections, but Brown might have potential for opportunities, but she would have to drive it. Brown would be better for her other interests. Hard choices!

I guess I missed that since I didn’t know people actually went to either of those schools for theater.

What do you mean? Northwestern has one of the most prolific theatre departments in the country.

Prolific? It looks to be ranked around 20 or so but in any case, I’m not up on theatre rankings and am surprised people are willing to pay private schools, tuitions for theatre majors outside the tip top programs like Juilliard, Yale and NYU.

Tell me you don't know anything about theatre without telling me you don't know anything about theatre. And NU is a dream school for plenty of theatre nerds across the country. I think rankings are dumb and ineffectual for a field like this, but fwiw Niche ranks Northwestern #1 for performing arts in the country.

https://www.niche.com/colleges/search/best-colleges-for-theater/

I admittedly know nothing about theater, but I do know not to use Niche for anything. I googled and got this list https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/lists/25-best-drama-schools-ranked/. Brown is 10 and Northwestern 21.

I'm the mom asking, and I will check that out, but it probably relates to the MFA. Such a bummer that Brown lets undergrads take graduate classes...except in theatre. Didn't see that fine print initially either!! NU clearly has the better theatre program, but thanks for this as she may go with Brown for the open curriculum. (Also interested in math and international politics).

Wow, this query kind of blew up, but I really appreciate all the input from theatre and music people. She is going to set up meetings with people at both schools to try to get some answers. Also, money may be the deciding factor. Right now NU is 10k more than Brown for us. 40k could buy some cool intensives and leave savings for grad school or something.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Down to Brown and Northwestern. Still deciding.

Brown, definitely. Not even close.

Northwestern, without question. Not even close.

hahahaha. they are both great and both have something the other doesn't.

NU offers way more in content and industry connections for the major. Better food and dorms. BUT, that music school restriction is killing her. She'd have to declare a 2nd major just to take theory classes and still wouldn't get faculty instrument lessons. She'd have to audition, get accepted and do a 5 year dual degree to get the lessons, and that would come w/ extra ensembles and classes. If there was a way she could do the BA Music as a double major and be allowed to get lessons, that might sway her. NU outranks Brown on some lists.

Brown was her dream school. LOVES the open curriculum. Major offerings are meager, and hers is the one (or one of few) department they don't let UGs take grad courses. But, she would definitely double and possibly triple major there. And, Brown is probably better for her secondary interests. She has many interests! So, now she needs to find out if/how she can supplement the main major w/ study abroad or summer programs, and if Brown will help financially w/ that. Brown has been better on FA so far. Not jazzed about the dorms/food there. Students seem more deep thinking and less superficial at Brown, but that is just casual observation. She would find her people at NU as well. And, then there's the Ivy status. DH and I are from no-name schools, so we're thrilled w/ all the choices, but having a kid at an Ivy would be cool. Not gonna lie.

As a former music major and an amauter musican now, when looking for a place to study music, its all about the teacher you will study with, and becoming a music double major just to take theory classes isn't worth it. Also important is playing the music school ensembles. If NU will not let her study with the music school's professor for her instrument, or let her play in the school's main ensembles (which I suspect is the case) without being a one major music major, she should think twice about choosing NU if she really wants to continue to pursue music in college. Even if she does the double major, the scheduling of classes could be difficult between the requirements for the 2 majors. An alternative is to see if the music professor has a private studio she can join, or find another teacher in Chicago and take lessons outside of college- there are lots of musicians in Chicago offering lessons. And there are plenty of summer music program for college students to supplement ensemble playing.
Both schools are excellent- congrats to your DD and good luck with your choice.

Double majoring in Music and anything else has been done at NU for decades. I graduated in 80s with an engineering and music performance degree back when not many did it. Now it's extremely common. the most challenging part would be getting into the music major and realizing that the first 2 years of the music major your group of 100-120 students is a cohort---you take Music history together both years, and break out into 4-5 music theory groups. As a non-major there are basic Theory and history Classes available. And yes, NU doesn't typically let non-majors study with a music professor for private lessons unless there is space in their studio. NU is a TOP 5 university for music, it compares with Eastman/Julliard/Curtis/etc. NU is not a university that just has a music major---NU seriously competes with the Music conservatories in the US, and who is "better" largely depends upon the individual professor. NU will have top Grad students your student could take private lessons with for probably $100 or less per lesson---much cheaper than paying for a quarter of 1 class at NU tuition, and if you don't want to be a music major, those grad students are TOP notch. You are allowed to perform in certain ensembles as a non-major---and those ensembles (concert band/sympohonic band/chamber orchestra) are better than the top ensembles at many universities.

So while you might be able to study with the same prof at brown university for your instrument as music majors, I've never heard of anyone attending Brown university that's serious about a music performance degree.

Thanks for his perspective. The issue (one of the issues!) is, she's no longer very interested in a music performance degree. Just wants theory/ear training as a basis for Composition minor as well as good lessons. Current teacher is Juilliard grad and head of dept at UMD. The classes w/ grads at NU are through the university, and, while they will tier voice for non-majors and offer faculty for upper tiers, they will not tier instruments, so only 100 level offered. The music dept office at NU was iffy about whether grad teachers would meet her needs. Do you know students in the grad programs? I think if she chooses NU, she tries the grad lessons, and sees how it goes for semester. Maybe, once there, an exception could be made or we can arrange private study w/ a faculty member if grad lessons are not a good fit. But, that still leaves the music theory problem. I hear you on Brown, it's not a conservatory, but wouldn't the name attract some good adjunct faculty?

I’m wondering why she eliminated Hopkins. It seems like Peabody would meet her needs.

Because she doesn't want a music performance degree. Have you all actually read what she wtote?! She wanted a theatre degree with the ability to take some theory and lessons. Hopkins doesn't have a theatre degree, and Peabody is a top school that would not be very open to nonmajor involvement. Terrible idea. Same to the person who suggested Case. Why would she want that? Also, people, she is not looking for new recommendations. She is comparing 2 options. Clearly, she did not dig deep enough into NU to see how restricting Bienen is, but there are ways to make either of her options work. Uninformed ideas are not helpful here.

I think the real question is… does Brown or NU have the better theatre department?

Northwestern has by far the superior theatre department.

On a separate note, is it just me or are there an abnormal number of kids studying music being talked about in this thread? Or am I getting confused? All this talk about music schools and conservatories and this here, that there. And all this time I thought we were talking about the PP's kid who was deciding between Brown and Northwestern!

I think it's really just mine and another kid, but other people then weigh in on their experiences, so maybe it feels like more? Yes, I agree NU is the clear winner on theatre curriculum and departmental support/connections, but Brown might have potential for opportunities, but she would have to drive it. Brown would be better for her other interests. Hard choices!

I guess I missed that since I didn’t know people actually went to either of those schools for theater.

What do you mean? Northwestern has one of the most prolific theatre departments in the country.

Prolific? It looks to be ranked around 20 or so but in any case, I’m not up on theatre rankings and am surprised people are willing to pay private schools, tuitions for theatre majors outside the tip top programs like Juilliard, Yale and NYU.

But, you would shell out for a history degree, right?

-- signed history BA who would have bern more qualified to work out of college with a theatre degree (got that later)!

Probably not, actually.

[Anonymous]

DD top choices were UVA or Tufts, headed to BU. She’s disappointed but fine with it and knows BU is an excellent school and was lucky to get in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:DD top choices were UVA or Tufts, headed to BU. She’s disappointed but fine with it and knows BU is an excellent school and was lucky to get in.

Misunderstood. She wanted UVA or Tufts, did not get in. Decided between BC, BU and Villanova and is attending BU

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Down to Brown and Northwestern. Still deciding.

Brown, definitely. Not even close.

Northwestern, without question. Not even close.

hahahaha. they are both great and both have something the other doesn't.

NU offers way more in content and industry connections for the major. Better food and dorms. BUT, that music school restriction is killing her. She'd have to declare a 2nd major just to take theory classes and still wouldn't get faculty instrument lessons. She'd have to audition, get accepted and do a 5 year dual degree to get the lessons, and that would come w/ extra ensembles and classes. If there was a way she could do the BA Music as a double major and be allowed to get lessons, that might sway her. NU outranks Brown on some lists.

Brown was her dream school. LOVES the open curriculum. Major offerings are meager, and hers is the one (or one of few) department they don't let UGs take grad courses. But, she would definitely double and possibly triple major there. And, Brown is probably better for her secondary interests. She has many interests! So, now she needs to find out if/how she can supplement the main major w/ study abroad or summer programs, and if Brown will help financially w/ that. Brown has been better on FA so far. Not jazzed about the dorms/food there. Students seem more deep thinking and less superficial at Brown, but that is just casual observation. She would find her people at NU as well. And, then there's the Ivy status. DH and I are from no-name schools, so we're thrilled w/ all the choices, but having a kid at an Ivy would be cool. Not gonna lie.

As a former music major and an amauter musican now, when looking for a place to study music, its all about the teacher you will study with, and becoming a music double major just to take theory classes isn't worth it. Also important is playing the music school ensembles. If NU will not let her study with the music school's professor for her instrument, or let her play in the school's main ensembles (which I suspect is the case) without being a one major music major, she should think twice about choosing NU if she really wants to continue to pursue music in college. Even if she does the double major, the scheduling of classes could be difficult between the requirements for the 2 majors. An alternative is to see if the music professor has a private studio she can join, or find another teacher in Chicago and take lessons outside of college- there are lots of musicians in Chicago offering lessons. And there are plenty of summer music program for college students to supplement ensemble playing.
Both schools are excellent- congrats to your DD and good luck with your choice.

Double majoring in Music and anything else has been done at NU for decades. I graduated in 80s with an engineering and music performance degree back when not many did it. Now it's extremely common. the most challenging part would be getting into the music major and realizing that the first 2 years of the music major your group of 100-120 students is a cohort---you take Music history together both years, and break out into 4-5 music theory groups. As a non-major there are basic Theory and history Classes available. And yes, NU doesn't typically let non-majors study with a music professor for private lessons unless there is space in their studio. NU is a TOP 5 university for music, it compares with Eastman/Julliard/Curtis/etc. NU is not a university that just has a music major---NU seriously competes with the Music conservatories in the US, and who is "better" largely depends upon the individual professor. NU will have top Grad students your student could take private lessons with for probably $100 or less per lesson---much cheaper than paying for a quarter of 1 class at NU tuition, and if you don't want to be a music major, those grad students are TOP notch. You are allowed to perform in certain ensembles as a non-major---and those ensembles (concert band/sympohonic band/chamber orchestra) are better than the top ensembles at many universities.

So while you might be able to study with the same prof at brown university for your instrument as music majors, I've never heard of anyone attending Brown university that's serious about a music performance degree.

Thanks for his perspective. The issue (one of the issues!) is, she's no longer very interested in a music performance degree. Just wants theory/ear training as a basis for Composition minor as well as good lessons. Current teacher is Juilliard grad and head of dept at UMD. The classes w/ grads at NU are through the university, and, while they will tier voice for non-majors and offer faculty for upper tiers, they will not tier instruments, so only 100 level offered. The music dept office at NU was iffy about whether grad teachers would meet her needs. Do you know students in the grad programs? I think if she chooses NU, she tries the grad lessons, and sees how it goes for semester. Maybe, once there, an exception could be made or we can arrange private study w/ a faculty member if grad lessons are not a good fit. But, that still leaves the music theory problem. I hear you on Brown, it's not a conservatory, but wouldn't the name attract some good adjunct faculty?

I’m wondering why she eliminated Hopkins. It seems like Peabody would meet her needs.

Because she doesn't want a music performance degree. Have you all actually read what she wtote?! She wanted a theatre degree with the ability to take some theory and lessons. Hopkins doesn't have a theatre degree, and Peabody is a top school that would not be very open to nonmajor involvement. Terrible idea. Same to the person who suggested Case. Why would she want that? Also, people, she is not looking for new recommendations. She is comparing 2 options. Clearly, she did not dig deep enough into NU to see how restricting Bienen is, but there are ways to make either of her options work. Uninformed ideas are not helpful here.

I think the real question is… does Brown or NU have the better theatre department?

Northwestern has by far the superior theatre department.

On a separate note, is it just me or are there an abnormal number of kids studying music being talked about in this thread? Or am I getting confused? All this talk about music schools and conservatories and this here, that there. And all this time I thought we were talking about the PP's kid who was deciding between Brown and Northwestern!

I think it's really just mine and another kid, but other people then weigh in on their experiences, so maybe it feels like more? Yes, I agree NU is the clear winner on theatre curriculum and departmental support/connections, but Brown might have potential for opportunities, but she would have to drive it. Brown would be better for her other interests. Hard choices!

I guess I missed that since I didn’t know people actually went to either of those schools for theater.

What do you mean? Northwestern has one of the most prolific theatre departments in the country.

Prolific? It looks to be ranked around 20 or so but in any case, I’m not up on theatre rankings and am surprised people are willing to pay private schools, tuitions for theatre majors outside the tip top programs like Juilliard, Yale and NYU.

Tell me you don't know anything about theatre without telling me you don't know anything about theatre. And NU is a dream school for plenty of theatre nerds across the country. I think rankings are dumb and ineffectual for a field like this, but fwiw Niche ranks Northwestern #1 for performing arts in the country.

https://www.niche.com/colleges/search/best-colleges-for-theater/

I admittedly know nothing about theater, but I do know not to use Niche for anything. I googled and got this list https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/lists/25-best-drama-schools-ranked/. Brown is 10 and Northwestern 21.

Haha. Sure, OK, bag on Niche (fair) but then to pull out… the Hollywood Reporter? Hm. Well, if you insist…

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/lists/top-25-undergraduate-drama-schools-895399/

Well, what do you know. Northwestern’s ranked #2 behind Juilliard. I will never understand people who insist on inserting themselves into a topic they are so clearly uneducated about.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Down to Brown and Northwestern. Still deciding.

Brown, definitely. Not even close.

Northwestern, without question. Not even close.

hahahaha. they are both great and both have something the other doesn't.

NU offers way more in content and industry connections for the major. Better food and dorms. BUT, that music school restriction is killing her. She'd have to declare a 2nd major just to take theory classes and still wouldn't get faculty instrument lessons. She'd have to audition, get accepted and do a 5 year dual degree to get the lessons, and that would come w/ extra ensembles and classes. If there was a way she could do the BA Music as a double major and be allowed to get lessons, that might sway her. NU outranks Brown on some lists.

Brown was her dream school. LOVES the open curriculum. Major offerings are meager, and hers is the one (or one of few) department they don't let UGs take grad courses. But, she would definitely double and possibly triple major there. And, Brown is probably better for her secondary interests. She has many interests! So, now she needs to find out if/how she can supplement the main major w/ study abroad or summer programs, and if Brown will help financially w/ that. Brown has been better on FA so far. Not jazzed about the dorms/food there. Students seem more deep thinking and less superficial at Brown, but that is just casual observation. She would find her people at NU as well. And, then there's the Ivy status. DH and I are from no-name schools, so we're thrilled w/ all the choices, but having a kid at an Ivy would be cool. Not gonna lie.

As a former music major and an amauter musican now, when looking for a place to study music, its all about the teacher you will study with, and becoming a music double major just to take theory classes isn't worth it. Also important is playing the music school ensembles. If NU will not let her study with the music school's professor for her instrument, or let her play in the school's main ensembles (which I suspect is the case) without being a one major music major, she should think twice about choosing NU if she really wants to continue to pursue music in college. Even if she does the double major, the scheduling of classes could be difficult between the requirements for the 2 majors. An alternative is to see if the music professor has a private studio she can join, or find another teacher in Chicago and take lessons outside of college- there are lots of musicians in Chicago offering lessons. And there are plenty of summer music program for college students to supplement ensemble playing.
Both schools are excellent- congrats to your DD and good luck with your choice.

Double majoring in Music and anything else has been done at NU for decades. I graduated in 80s with an engineering and music performance degree back when not many did it. Now it's extremely common. the most challenging part would be getting into the music major and realizing that the first 2 years of the music major your group of 100-120 students is a cohort---you take Music history together both years, and break out into 4-5 music theory groups. As a non-major there are basic Theory and history Classes available. And yes, NU doesn't typically let non-majors study with a music professor for private lessons unless there is space in their studio. NU is a TOP 5 university for music, it compares with Eastman/Julliard/Curtis/etc. NU is not a university that just has a music major---NU seriously competes with the Music conservatories in the US, and who is "better" largely depends upon the individual professor. NU will have top Grad students your student could take private lessons with for probably $100 or less per lesson---much cheaper than paying for a quarter of 1 class at NU tuition, and if you don't want to be a music major, those grad students are TOP notch. You are allowed to perform in certain ensembles as a non-major---and those ensembles (concert band/sympohonic band/chamber orchestra) are better than the top ensembles at many universities.

So while you might be able to study with the same prof at brown university for your instrument as music majors, I've never heard of anyone attending Brown university that's serious about a music performance degree.

Thanks for his perspective. The issue (one of the issues!) is, she's no longer very interested in a music performance degree. Just wants theory/ear training as a basis for Composition minor as well as good lessons. Current teacher is Juilliard grad and head of dept at UMD. The classes w/ grads at NU are through the university, and, while they will tier voice for non-majors and offer faculty for upper tiers, they will not tier instruments, so only 100 level offered. The music dept office at NU was iffy about whether grad teachers would meet her needs. Do you know students in the grad programs? I think if she chooses NU, she tries the grad lessons, and sees how it goes for semester. Maybe, once there, an exception could be made or we can arrange private study w/ a faculty member if grad lessons are not a good fit. But, that still leaves the music theory problem. I hear you on Brown, it's not a conservatory, but wouldn't the name attract some good adjunct faculty?

I’m wondering why she eliminated Hopkins. It seems like Peabody would meet her needs.

Because she doesn't want a music performance degree. Have you all actually read what she wtote?! She wanted a theatre degree with the ability to take some theory and lessons. Hopkins doesn't have a theatre degree, and Peabody is a top school that would not be very open to nonmajor involvement. Terrible idea. Same to the person who suggested Case. Why would she want that? Also, people, she is not looking for new recommendations. She is comparing 2 options. Clearly, she did not dig deep enough into NU to see how restricting Bienen is, but there are ways to make either of her options work. Uninformed ideas are not helpful here.

I think the real question is… does Brown or NU have the better theatre department?

Seriously? That is a no-brainer. NU is top 3 for theater, and top 3-5 for music. So if the theater/music is a real wish, kid should attend there and find a way to make it work. Yes, Theater and Bienen are very competitive, and they don't just let anyone take classes, that's because it is so competitive, and levels above most schools for that

+1. The programmes are stellar.

Though oddly enough the two Northwestern music majors I know ended up at McKinsey and Goldman, respectively. Weird.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Down to Brown and Northwestern. Still deciding.

Brown, definitely. Not even close.

Northwestern, without question. Not even close.

hahahaha. they are both great and both have something the other doesn't.

NU offers way more in content and industry connections for the major. Better food and dorms. BUT, that music school restriction is killing her. She'd have to declare a 2nd major just to take theory classes and still wouldn't get faculty instrument lessons. She'd have to audition, get accepted and do a 5 year dual degree to get the lessons, and that would come w/ extra ensembles and classes. If there was a way she could do the BA Music as a double major and be allowed to get lessons, that might sway her. NU outranks Brown on some lists.

Brown was her dream school. LOVES the open curriculum. Major offerings are meager, and hers is the one (or one of few) department they don't let UGs take grad courses. But, she would definitely double and possibly triple major there. And, Brown is probably better for her secondary interests. She has many interests! So, now she needs to find out if/how she can supplement the main major w/ study abroad or summer programs, and if Brown will help financially w/ that. Brown has been better on FA so far. Not jazzed about the dorms/food there. Students seem more deep thinking and less superficial at Brown, but that is just casual observation. She would find her people at NU as well. And, then there's the Ivy status. DH and I are from no-name schools, so we're thrilled w/ all the choices, but having a kid at an Ivy would be cool. Not gonna lie.

As a former music major and an amauter musican now, when looking for a place to study music, its all about the teacher you will study with, and becoming a music double major just to take theory classes isn't worth it. Also important is playing the music school ensembles. If NU will not let her study with the music school's professor for her instrument, or let her play in the school's main ensembles (which I suspect is the case) without being a one major music major, she should think twice about choosing NU if she really wants to continue to pursue music in college. Even if she does the double major, the scheduling of classes could be difficult between the requirements for the 2 majors. An alternative is to see if the music professor has a private studio she can join, or find another teacher in Chicago and take lessons outside of college- there are lots of musicians in Chicago offering lessons. And there are plenty of summer music program for college students to supplement ensemble playing.
Both schools are excellent- congrats to your DD and good luck with your choice.

Double majoring in Music and anything else has been done at NU for decades. I graduated in 80s with an engineering and music performance degree back when not many did it. Now it's extremely common. the most challenging part would be getting into the music major and realizing that the first 2 years of the music major your group of 100-120 students is a cohort---you take Music history together both years, and break out into 4-5 music theory groups. As a non-major there are basic Theory and history Classes available. And yes, NU doesn't typically let non-majors study with a music professor for private lessons unless there is space in their studio. NU is a TOP 5 university for music, it compares with Eastman/Julliard/Curtis/etc. NU is not a university that just has a music major---NU seriously competes with the Music conservatories in the US, and who is "better" largely depends upon the individual professor. NU will have top Grad students your student could take private lessons with for probably $100 or less per lesson---much cheaper than paying for a quarter of 1 class at NU tuition, and if you don't want to be a music major, those grad students are TOP notch. You are allowed to perform in certain ensembles as a non-major---and those ensembles (concert band/sympohonic band/chamber orchestra) are better than the top ensembles at many universities.

So while you might be able to study with the same prof at brown university for your instrument as music majors, I've never heard of anyone attending Brown university that's serious about a music performance degree.

Thanks for his perspective. The issue (one of the issues!) is, she's no longer very interested in a music performance degree. Just wants theory/ear training as a basis for Composition minor as well as good lessons. Current teacher is Juilliard grad and head of dept at UMD. The classes w/ grads at NU are through the university, and, while they will tier voice for non-majors and offer faculty for upper tiers, they will not tier instruments, so only 100 level offered. The music dept office at NU was iffy about whether grad teachers would meet her needs. Do you know students in the grad programs? I think if she chooses NU, she tries the grad lessons, and sees how it goes for semester. Maybe, once there, an exception could be made or we can arrange private study w/ a faculty member if grad lessons are not a good fit. But, that still leaves the music theory problem. I hear you on Brown, it's not a conservatory, but wouldn't the name attract some good adjunct faculty?

I’m wondering why she eliminated Hopkins. It seems like Peabody would meet her needs.

Because she doesn't want a music performance degree. Have you all actually read what she wtote?! She wanted a theatre degree with the ability to take some theory and lessons. Hopkins doesn't have a theatre degree, and Peabody is a top school that would not be very open to nonmajor involvement. Terrible idea. Same to the person who suggested Case. Why would she want that? Also, people, she is not looking for new recommendations. She is comparing 2 options. Clearly, she did not dig deep enough into NU to see how restricting Bienen is, but there are ways to make either of her options work. Uninformed ideas are not helpful here.

I think the real question is… does Brown or NU have the better theatre department?

Northwestern has by far the superior theatre department.

On a separate note, is it just me or are there an abnormal number of kids studying music being talked about in this thread? Or am I getting confused? All this talk about music schools and conservatories and this here, that there. And all this time I thought we were talking about the PP's kid who was deciding between Brown and Northwestern!

I think it's really just mine and another kid, but other people then weigh in on their experiences, so maybe it feels like more? Yes, I agree NU is the clear winner on theatre curriculum and departmental support/connections, but Brown might have potential for opportunities, but she would have to drive it. Brown would be better for her other interests. Hard choices!

I guess I missed that since I didn’t know people actually went to either of those schools for theater.

What do you mean? Northwestern has one of the most prolific theatre departments in the country.

Prolific? It looks to be ranked around 20 or so but in any case, I’m not up on theatre rankings and am surprised people are willing to pay private schools, tuitions for theatre majors outside the tip top programs like Juilliard, Yale and NYU.

Tell me you don't know anything about theatre without telling me you don't know anything about theatre. And NU is a dream school for plenty of theatre nerds across the country. I think rankings are dumb and ineffectual for a field like this, but fwiw Niche ranks Northwestern #1 for performing arts in the country.

https://www.niche.com/colleges/search/best-colleges-for-theater/

I admittedly know nothing about theater, but I do know not to use Niche for anything. I googled and got this list https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/lists/25-best-drama-schools-ranked/. Brown is 10 and Northwestern 21.

Haha. Sure, OK, bag on Niche (fair) but then to pull out… the Hollywood Reporter? Hm. Well, if you insist…

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/lists/top-25-undergraduate-drama-schools-895399/

Well, what do you know. Northwestern’s ranked #2 behind Juilliard. I will never understand people who insist on inserting themselves into a topic they are so clearly uneducated about.

If you are going to be a pompous jerk, at least read what your post. The list I linked to was the most recent survey —2021, you had to go back to 2016 to find the rankings you wanted. Rankings change over time.