Are sons missing a genetic gene on caring about their parents?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"A daughter once born is a daughter for life. A son is a son until he takes a wife."

--old proverb

What ignorant, misogynistic crap!

Every cliched proverb has a grain of truth.

The gender gap is real.

Biological and social Gender differences are both real.

The question is how to reduce the inordinate burden on women to provide unpaid family care?

(PSST…part of the way forward to reduce the burden on women to provide unpaid family care is to stop yammering old proverbs and getting those notions into people’s heads.)

I doubt that policing language and guilting people for expressing cultural realities will solve the problem …

You can express cultural realities without resorting to nursery rhymes that, when repeated, become truths in some (vapid/looking-for-an-excuse) people’s heads. One would hope.

PP clearly indicated it was an old proverb … Good luck spraying trite PC air freshener over the manure fields

Shall we start repeating “old proverbs” about members of minority groups, or would that be harmful and negative and unseemly? You tell me. After all, it’s just an “old proverb,” right? What harm in repeating it and teaching it to more and more people, thus informing their thinking?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:One thing I learned from caregiver hell is that rather than waste time obsessing over what your siblings don't do is you should look at how much you are enabling your parents to have it easy to your own detriment all while they treat you like garbage. I did A LOT of things my parents could hire people to do and as the appreciation waned and the cruelty increased I finally backed away. They were LIVID when I finally backed away, but sure enough there was boatloads of money to pay people and they found people. I don't need an inheritance. I need my sanity. In the end my siblings were smart not to get so involved. low and behold after years of helping my parents I am the evil child who can do no right and they, who did nothing can do no wrong.

+1 So much truth here.

My parents became more demanding as they aged because they were stressed (borderline obsessed) with their "legacy". A big trigger for them has been as their siblings have died, they have seen how their nieces and nephews have handled those losses, they've heard the eulogies. And they have clearly become concerned that they will not be as missed. And I'm going to be honest with you -- they probably won't be in some cases. One of my uncles was absolutely beloved by his daughters in part because he was a single father after their mom left them and just an incredibly kind and gentle soul who loved them for who they are in a very simple and pure way. My cousins love and miss their dad, and cared for him in a very specific way when he got sick, that I don't think would be realistically possible in my relationship with my parents.

So you have to set boundaries and accept that this might hurt your parents. But I'm not going to fake a certain kind of relationship that simply doesn't exist to help my parents feel better as they age. I understand why they want it, but it really would not be fair to me. I care for them, but I have limits, and you better believe there are things where I just say "Ok, I'm happy to help you figure out who we can come take care of that for you." I'm not going to be their nursemaid. The fact that this is something they want is mildly disturbing to me. I don't think my uncle wanted that for my cousins, either.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It also depends on the DILs. We're not going to care for my ILs because they haven't helped us at all. They did help my SIL, so they are her responsibility. My parents helped us tremendously, both financially and with childcare, so we will take care of them. They also helped my SIL and my brother, so we will share responsibilities. My SIL's mother abandoned her, so she didn't take care of her mother.

Did they raise your husband in such a way that he grew into a person you would choose above all others? Why did you need more help beyond that? Why isn’t that enough?

No, they were actually very neglectful. Because my SIL has always been 100% financially supported by my ILs, from mortgage payments, utilities, property taxes, nanny while SAH, after-school activities for kids etc. My SIL is 40 years old and my FIL still pays her credit cards, she doesn't even get the statement. She is not disabled, just "low energy" with thyroid problems and she's still trying to find her calling outside shopping at Bloomingdales. My H got nothing, because he's hard working and married someone with a career. So, when you discriminate between your own children, you will also get discriminated in old age. My parents are amazing, they make sure both my brother and I get the same support and attention and they treat all the grandchildren the same.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One thing I learned from caregiver hell is that rather than waste time obsessing over what your siblings don't do is you should look at how much you are enabling your parents to have it easy to your own detriment all while they treat you like garbage. I did A LOT of things my parents could hire people to do and as the appreciation waned and the cruelty increased I finally backed away. They were LIVID when I finally backed away, but sure enough there was boatloads of money to pay people and they found people. I don't need an inheritance. I need my sanity. In the end my siblings were smart not to get so involved. low and behold after years of helping my parents I am the evil child who can do no right and they, who did nothing can do no wrong.

+1 So much truth here.

My parents became more demanding as they aged because they were stressed (borderline obsessed) with their "legacy". A big trigger for them has been as their siblings have died, they have seen how their nieces and nephews have handled those losses, they've heard the eulogies. And they have clearly become concerned that they will not be as missed. And I'm going to be honest with you -- they probably won't be in some cases. One of my uncles was absolutely beloved by his daughters in part because he was a single father after their mom left them and just an incredibly kind and gentle soul who loved them for who they are in a very simple and pure way. My cousins love and miss their dad, and cared for him in a very specific way when he got sick, that I don't think would be realistically possible in my relationship with my parents.

So you have to set boundaries and accept that this might hurt your parents. But I'm not going to fake a certain kind of relationship that simply doesn't exist to help my parents feel better as they age. I understand why they want it, but it really would not be fair to me. I care for them, but I have limits, and you better believe there are things where I just say "Ok, I'm happy to help you figure out who we can come take care of that for you." I'm not going to be their nursemaid. The fact that this is something they want is mildly disturbing to me. I don't think my uncle wanted that for my cousins, either.

I am the one you quotes and can relate to what you wrote. My mother is obsessed with the friends/neighbors she has who's adult kids are so devoted to them and so bereft when they are gone. These ladies are the type of people who would take the grandchildren for a month over the summer so their kids and spouses could travel or who insisted on being nursemaid and chef when any of them had a baby so they could rest and recover. They were the type of moms who were always there for them and attended every sporting event or concert. This was not my mother and that is fine. I accepted that long ago, but she tries to guilt and manipulate me with stories of how much better these adult children are and she forgets to mention how much their mothers did for them over the years. Plus, their mothers are so selfless they don't ask much of their children to begin with. Of course the adult children are sobbing at thew eulogies. Their mothers were the giving tree and more. I never once in all the times I was guilt trip and shamed tried to turn it on her and shame her for not being selfless because I never expected it and I refuse to be that cruel back. It's just so sad that what I did do could not be appreciated and she tried to guilt, shame, manipulate and yell to have me do more. So much burn out and so much therapy needed to set boundaries and free myself of the guilt.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So what was your response to your brothers. If it was anything other than:
“Let me make sure I understand this: your mother just went into the hospital a few hours ago, you live 10 minutes from the hospital, and your response to is ‘I gotta go riding/play golf.’ Am I understanding this correctly?”

Then come back after you’ve asked this. I really want to hear what their response was.

OP here. I couldn’t even respond to them because I was too distraught and had a long drive. One brother begrudgingly did go visit her for bout half hr and left before I was able to get there.. It took everything not to break down when I saw her in so much pain. I stayed with her for hours until her pain meds put her to sleep. I’m staying in town for the week and luckily I have a supportive husband.

The hospital visitation is limited to just one visitor at a time but no limits per day. 8am till 8 pm.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One thing I learned from caregiver hell is that rather than waste time obsessing over what your siblings don't do is you should look at how much you are enabling your parents to have it easy to your own detriment all while they treat you like garbage. I did A LOT of things my parents could hire people to do and as the appreciation waned and the cruelty increased I finally backed away. They were LIVID when I finally backed away, but sure enough there was boatloads of money to pay people and they found people. I don't need an inheritance. I need my sanity. In the end my siblings were smart not to get so involved. low and behold after years of helping my parents I am the evil child who can do no right and they, who did nothing can do no wrong.

+1 So much truth here.

My parents became more demanding as they aged because they were stressed (borderline obsessed) with their "legacy". A big trigger for them has been as their siblings have died, they have seen how their nieces and nephews have handled those losses, they've heard the eulogies. And they have clearly become concerned that they will not be as missed. And I'm going to be honest with you -- they probably won't be in some cases. One of my uncles was absolutely beloved by his daughters in part because he was a single father after their mom left them and just an incredibly kind and gentle soul who loved them for who they are in a very simple and pure way. My cousins love and miss their dad, and cared for him in a very specific way when he got sick, that I don't think would be realistically possible in my relationship with my parents.

So you have to set boundaries and accept that this might hurt your parents. But I'm not going to fake a certain kind of relationship that simply doesn't exist to help my parents feel better as they age. I understand why they want it, but it really would not be fair to me. I care for them, but I have limits, and you better believe there are things where I just say "Ok, I'm happy to help you figure out who we can come take care of that for you." I'm not going to be their nursemaid. The fact that this is something they want is mildly disturbing to me. I don't think my uncle wanted that for my cousins, either.

I am the one you quotes and can relate to what you wrote. My mother is obsessed with the friends/neighbors she has who's adult kids are so devoted to them and so bereft when they are gone. These ladies are the type of people who would take the grandchildren for a month over the summer so their kids and spouses could travel or who insisted on being nursemaid and chef when any of them had a baby so they could rest and recover. They were the type of moms who were always there for them and attended every sporting event or concert. This was not my mother and that is fine. I accepted that long ago, but she tries to guilt and manipulate me with stories of how much better these adult children are and she forgets to mention how much their mothers did for them over the years. Plus, their mothers are so selfless they don't ask much of their children to begin with. Of course the adult children are sobbing at thew eulogies. Their mothers were the giving tree and more. I never once in all the times I was guilt trip and shamed tried to turn it on her and shame her for not being selfless because I never expected it and I refuse to be that cruel back. It's just so sad that what I did do could not be appreciated and she tried to guilt, shame, manipulate and yell to have me do more. So much burn out and so much therapy needed to set boundaries and free myself of the guilt.

OP here.. I understand how you must feel. My mom was like those moms you mentioned. She has always been supportive and loving and is a truly amazing mother. I do have quite a few friends who have downright hateful mothers and I feel bad for them. They tell me things their mothers say to them and I just can’t imagine. I guess I feel how can I ever repay my mom for all the love and care she’s given me in the last 60 years. She went from independent/driving/working to an assisted facility so quickly after a stroke. It’s only been a few months since this happened. I guess my brothers might be in denial still.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"A daughter once born is a daughter for life. A son is a son until he takes a wife."

--old proverb

What ignorant, misogynistic crap!

Every cliched proverb has a grain of truth.

The gender gap is real.

Biological and social Gender differences are both real.

The question is how to reduce the inordinate burden on women to provide unpaid family care?

(PSST…part of the way forward to reduce the burden on women to provide unpaid family care is to stop yammering old proverbs and getting those notions into people’s heads.)

I doubt that policing language and guilting people for expressing cultural realities will solve the problem …

You can express cultural realities without resorting to nursery rhymes that, when repeated, become truths in some (vapid/looking-for-an-excuse) people’s heads. One would hope.

PP clearly indicated it was an old proverb … Good luck spraying trite PC air freshener over the manure fields

Shall we start repeating “old proverbs” about members of minority groups, or would that be harmful and negative and unseemly? You tell me. After all, it’s just an “old proverb,” right? What harm in repeating it and teaching it to more and more people, thus informing their thinking?

The old proverb does reflect reality - women are 2-8 times more likely to do unpaid family care work. You can act self righteously PC out the wazoo but that will not change hearts, Minds or laws around this issue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One thing I learned from caregiver hell is that rather than waste time obsessing over what your siblings don't do is you should look at how much you are enabling your parents to have it easy to your own detriment all while they treat you like garbage. I did A LOT of things my parents could hire people to do and as the appreciation waned and the cruelty increased I finally backed away. They were LIVID when I finally backed away, but sure enough there was boatloads of money to pay people and they found people. I don't need an inheritance. I need my sanity. In the end my siblings were smart not to get so involved. low and behold after years of helping my parents I am the evil child who can do no right and they, who did nothing can do no wrong.

+1 So much truth here.

My parents became more demanding as they aged because they were stressed (borderline obsessed) with their "legacy". A big trigger for them has been as their siblings have died, they have seen how their nieces and nephews have handled those losses, they've heard the eulogies. And they have clearly become concerned that they will not be as missed. And I'm going to be honest with you -- they probably won't be in some cases. One of my uncles was absolutely beloved by his daughters in part because he was a single father after their mom left them and just an incredibly kind and gentle soul who loved them for who they are in a very simple and pure way. My cousins love and miss their dad, and cared for him in a very specific way when he got sick, that I don't think would be realistically possible in my relationship with my parents.

So you have to set boundaries and accept that this might hurt your parents. But I'm not going to fake a certain kind of relationship that simply doesn't exist to help my parents feel better as they age. I understand why they want it, but it really would not be fair to me. I care for them, but I have limits, and you better believe there are things where I just say "Ok, I'm happy to help you figure out who we can come take care of that for you." I'm not going to be their nursemaid. The fact that this is something they want is mildly disturbing to me. I don't think my uncle wanted that for my cousins, either.

I am the one you quotes and can relate to what you wrote. My mother is obsessed with the friends/neighbors she has who's adult kids are so devoted to them and so bereft when they are gone. These ladies are the type of people who would take the grandchildren for a month over the summer so their kids and spouses could travel or who insisted on being nursemaid and chef when any of them had a baby so they could rest and recover. They were the type of moms who were always there for them and attended every sporting event or concert. This was not my mother and that is fine. I accepted that long ago, but she tries to guilt and manipulate me with stories of how much better these adult children are and she forgets to mention how much their mothers did for them over the years. Plus, their mothers are so selfless they don't ask much of their children to begin with. Of course the adult children are sobbing at thew eulogies. Their mothers were the giving tree and more. I never once in all the times I was guilt trip and shamed tried to turn it on her and shame her for not being selfless because I never expected it and I refuse to be that cruel back. It's just so sad that what I did do could not be appreciated and she tried to guilt, shame, manipulate and yell to have me do more. So much burn out and so much therapy needed to set boundaries and free myself of the guilt.

My mom will gladly take two different sets of her boyfriend's grandkids for a week or two each a year and has never even had my child over one night. We live five minute away. She gets them great gifts and my kid nothing. Not even a birthday gift and we are lucky if we get a call. When mine was little she'd take him out to each a few times a year and ask me for money (she has tons of money or ask me to pack food as she claimed thats what her friends kids do). She now wonders why my kid never calls or has any interest. The rare times they talk she tells my child how great the other kids are, how smart they are and how advanced they are. She has no idea my child is a straight a student in the most advanced math and many more activities. She's never once gone to a concert, sports meet, etc. She didn't even go to my college or graduate school graduations and yet she flew to another of the boyfriend's grandkids to go to their graduation.

Why should I care when my parents don't care about me? I stopped trying long ago and so much happier. They refuse to show me their wills and had told me I was POA until my sibling let it slip out she was. So, I can assume the three of them cut me out, which is fine and since I'm not a family member in their eyes I see zero responsibility in their care.

You treat people how you want to be treated. You want cared for when you are old, you help others who you want the help from. I've been in the hospital and she wouldn't help my husband with my child (who is super easy). When I've been really sick, she would never think to ask if we needed anything.

[Anonymous]

I was actually just talking about this with a friend. We've witnessed the same dynamic in so many families.

My guess is that thousands upon thousands of years of entitlement has ingrained in male DNA to make them just generally kind of useless.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I was actually just talking about this with a friend. We've witnessed the same dynamic in so many families.

My guess is that thousands upon thousands of years of entitlement has ingrained in male DNA to make them just generally kind of useless.

Adding to this, we continue the cycle of not caring for others by letting boys act like the world revolves around them. Every time I take my toddler to the playground, some rude, wild boy would knock her down if I wasn't blocking her. Never experienced that with girls - they're having fun but have some awareness of other people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One thing I learned from caregiver hell is that rather than waste time obsessing over what your siblings don't do is you should look at how much you are enabling your parents to have it easy to your own detriment all while they treat you like garbage. I did A LOT of things my parents could hire people to do and as the appreciation waned and the cruelty increased I finally backed away. They were LIVID when I finally backed away, but sure enough there was boatloads of money to pay people and they found people. I don't need an inheritance. I need my sanity. In the end my siblings were smart not to get so involved. low and behold after years of helping my parents I am the evil child who can do no right and they, who did nothing can do no wrong.

+1 So much truth here.

My parents became more demanding as they aged because they were stressed (borderline obsessed) with their "legacy". A big trigger for them has been as their siblings have died, they have seen how their nieces and nephews have handled those losses, they've heard the eulogies. And they have clearly become concerned that they will not be as missed. And I'm going to be honest with you -- they probably won't be in some cases. One of my uncles was absolutely beloved by his daughters in part because he was a single father after their mom left them and just an incredibly kind and gentle soul who loved them for who they are in a very simple and pure way. My cousins love and miss their dad, and cared for him in a very specific way when he got sick, that I don't think would be realistically possible in my relationship with my parents.

So you have to set boundaries and accept that this might hurt your parents. But I'm not going to fake a certain kind of relationship that simply doesn't exist to help my parents feel better as they age. I understand why they want it, but it really would not be fair to me. I care for them, but I have limits, and you better believe there are things where I just say "Ok, I'm happy to help you figure out who we can come take care of that for you." I'm not going to be their nursemaid. The fact that this is something they want is mildly disturbing to me. I don't think my uncle wanted that for my cousins, either.

I am the one you quotes and can relate to what you wrote. My mother is obsessed with the friends/neighbors she has who's adult kids are so devoted to them and so bereft when they are gone. These ladies are the type of people who would take the grandchildren for a month over the summer so their kids and spouses could travel or who insisted on being nursemaid and chef when any of them had a baby so they could rest and recover. They were the type of moms who were always there for them and attended every sporting event or concert. This was not my mother and that is fine. I accepted that long ago, but she tries to guilt and manipulate me with stories of how much better these adult children are and she forgets to mention how much their mothers did for them over the years. Plus, their mothers are so selfless they don't ask much of their children to begin with. Of course the adult children are sobbing at thew eulogies. Their mothers were the giving tree and more. I never once in all the times I was guilt trip and shamed tried to turn it on her and shame her for not being selfless because I never expected it and I refuse to be that cruel back. It's just so sad that what I did do could not be appreciated and she tried to guilt, shame, manipulate and yell to have me do more. So much burn out and so much therapy needed to set boundaries and free myself of the guilt.

My mom will gladly take two different sets of her boyfriend's grandkids for a week or two each a year and has never even had my child over one night. We live five minute away. She gets them great gifts and my kid nothing. Not even a birthday gift and we are lucky if we get a call. When mine was little she'd take him out to each a few times a year and ask me for money (she has tons of money or ask me to pack food as she claimed thats what her friends kids do). She now wonders why my kid never calls or has any interest. The rare times they talk she tells my child how great the other kids are, how smart they are and how advanced they are. She has no idea my child is a straight a student in the most advanced math and many more activities. She's never once gone to a concert, sports meet, etc. She didn't even go to my college or graduate school graduations and yet she flew to another of the boyfriend's grandkids to go to their graduation.

Why should I care when my parents don't care about me? I stopped trying long ago and so much happier. They refuse to show me their wills and had told me I was POA until my sibling let it slip out she was. So, I can assume the three of them cut me out, which is fine and since I'm not a family member in their eyes I see zero responsibility in their care.

You treat people how you want to be treated. You want cared for when you are old, you help others who you want the help from. I've been in the hospital and she wouldn't help my husband with my child (who is super easy). When I've been really sick, she would never think to ask if we needed anything.

My heart goes out to you. I hope I am not hijacking this thread by responding again. We have similar things going on, but mom has no boyfriend. She is this way with cousin's grandchildren and friends grandchildren. Painful in a different way for us because one of our kids has SN and she was embarrassed to let anyone know. I am constantly hearing her brag about other people's grandchildren as though they are hers.

I was quite ill a few years ago with pneumonia and sounded frightening according to a coworker. She didn't care. If one her her friends kids or one of my siblings has something minor she wants to give a play by play and can't stop worrying. She says it's because they are single and yet she cares about her friends' kids who are married.

So welcome to the sucky moms who want you to dote on them club. Glad we both have boundaries. Carry on people...sorry to hijack

[Anonymous]

It depends but a lot of men use the stereotype as a ticket to get away w/ this behavior.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't think it's all socialization. My parents were very co-equal in terms of parenting and domestic tasks, and my dad helps to care for my mom's mother, who is in assisted living near them. My brother lives in the same city as my parents and sees them a few times a year. I live across the country so I don't see them often either, but normally we go out for 9 or 10 days once a year and my parents come visit us 2-3 times for a week each, so I spend a lot more time with them than my brother does. He just doesn't make it a priority.

It is socialization, he is getting away with it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I saw my brothers do this to our parents too. But our parents raised us girls to put others before ourselves and my brothers to put themselves first.

My parents made us girls clean the house and babysit the younger kids. Our brothers only had to make their beds and do outdoor chores, like mowing.

It was no surprise when the parents got old, the daughters put in most of the caregiving hours. My brothers would turn off their phones when they thought an urgent call from the ailing parents might come in. They took care of themselves first as my parents trained them.

Wow, they are jerks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"A daughter once born is a daughter for life. A son is a son until he takes a wife."

--old proverb

What ignorant, misogynistic crap!

I think it is a matter of fact, for whatever reason.