Looks like a new Gaza war has started

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Back to reality … IDF must have good intelligence assets now, with the quickening success it has been having with neutralizing important Hamas leaders. This may be displeasing to some people, who are rooting for “that team” against Israel, but it should not be: Hamas cannot hold the people of Gaza hostage anymore.

Do you think this is going to make Gazans pro-Israel? They may kill Hamas, but they've solidified hatred of Israel in another generation.

I don’t think there is literally anything the Israelis can do, ever, to prevent hatred of Israel in another generation of Gazans. The Israelis could return all land and extend full voting rights and become minorities in Israel, and Gazans would still want them eliminated. Israel could 100% capitulate and they’d still face severe violence.

So, wait, the Israelis can hold on to Holocaust trauma, but Palestinians need to let go of theirs? Interesting how that double standard works.

Read the Hamas charter. It's not about trauma, it's about destroying Israel.

It has been since 1948.

Maybe we should start saying ultra nationalists represent all Jews if we are going to hang Hamas on all Palestinians. See how that works?

I didn't hang Hamas on all Palestinians. I think that Hamas and its antecedents are the primary cause of Palestinian suffering.

But pretending that trauma is the cause of Hamas terrorism is simply not accurate.

Hamas wants to destroy Israel (and at one time Rotarians, for reasons I cannot fathom).

Is trauma why Israel is murdering Palestinians and stealing their land?

Nope. I don't think either side can use "trauma" to justify their actions.

The difference is that one side (Hamas) wants to eliminate the other b/c it exists.

Israel does not want to eliminate the Palestinians, though some settlers certainly do.

Israel may not want to eliminate Palestinians but that's the (un)intended consequences when you bomb civilians.

Rest assured that they say they are doing everything possible to avoid that. To be sure, the weapons they are firing at Hamas targets may sometimes be 2,000 pound bombs. Some types of munitions take out foundations first, and the then buildings collapse. There is no rebar, it seems, so that accounts for quick collapse. Secondary explosions may come from stored weapons. IF these targets are on or about civilian locations, both IDF and Hamas must be careful to comply with laws of war.

Israel and Hamas complying with laws of war?

Israel tries to; Hamas does not.

No, really.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Back to reality … IDF must have good intelligence assets now, with the quickening success it has been having with neutralizing important Hamas leaders. This may be displeasing to some people, who are rooting for “that team” against Israel, but it should not be: Hamas cannot hold the people of Gaza hostage anymore.

Do you think this is going to make Gazans pro-Israel? They may kill Hamas, but they've solidified hatred of Israel in another generation.

I don’t think there is literally anything the Israelis can do, ever, to prevent hatred of Israel in another generation of Gazans. The Israelis could return all land and extend full voting rights and become minorities in Israel, and Gazans would still want them eliminated. Israel could 100% capitulate and they’d still face severe violence.

Has Israel ever actually tried… not killing Palestinians? Like there’s this accusation flying about that Palestinians want all Israelis dead no matter what Israel does, but Israel has never actually tried the very basic… not killing Palestinians as a first step. Or at least to verify this claim.

This isn’t unique to Palestinians. As history has shown, most populations want to eliminate their Jewish population. The Palestinians are no different.

This is a lie. I think you feel special when you think people want to harm you. Maybe that's why you keep harping about how antisemetic the whole world is. Playing victim seems to be your reason for being.

It's not a lie - and I'd invite you to notice how quickly so many people on every part of the political spectrum turn to blaming Jews - and "Zionists" - for whatever they don't like in the world.

I don't blame you if you aren't aware, or choose not to see it for what it is. Jews have this in our DNA, and we see, and we know what it means.

In your DNA? So it's more than religious brainwashing? Who knew.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Back to reality … IDF must have good intelligence assets now, with the quickening success it has been having with neutralizing important Hamas leaders. This may be displeasing to some people, who are rooting for “that team” against Israel, but it should not be: Hamas cannot hold the people of Gaza hostage anymore.

Do you think this is going to make Gazans pro-Israel? They may kill Hamas, but they've solidified hatred of Israel in another generation.

They have solidified hatred for Israel in another generation for an entire REGION, not just Gaza. It’s an endless cycle of hatred and violence. As an American I want off this ride.

Do you really not understand the the hatred exists no matter what Israel does?

It is Israel's mere existence that causes the hatred (with a hefty dose of religious intolerance as the cherry on the sundae).

JFC. You guys have to stop the perpetual victimization. It really is so counterproductive to any peace in the region. You cannot argue with the pro-Israel people because they justify murder with "well, my existence bothered him". No, Barbara, it was the fact that you killed his family. If you would stop that, he'd be cool.

Leave Maryland and meet other people. Make friends with Arabs. You will learn that they are humans - just like you - who want to live in peace. If you stop bombing them, they will be ok. It is YOUR hatred that exacerbates this.

So how do you explain the massacre of Jews by Palestinians before the state of Israel even existed?

How do you explain the Arab/Palestinian attempt to eradicate Israel on the day it was founded?

How do you explain the Hamas charter calling for the obliteration of Israel?

I grant you that there are thriving Christian and Jewish populations in many ME countries. I mean, you have ___________, and ____________, and _________________, and ______________. So we have to take those examples into account.

You're a moron. Lebanon was founded as a Christian country by the French. The population was 60/40 Christian to Muslim. Christians are thriving there and there are a lot of them. The president is a Maronite Christian. 10% of Egypt is Coptic. Our best friends are Christians from Jordan. And we are good friends with Lebanese Druze. Do you actually know ANYONE from an Arab country? Anyone at all?

And yes, the native ARabs were very angry on day 1 when they were kicked out of their houses, burned and murdered. It was a pretty disgusting display of violence during the Nakbah.

Ah, so you've just admitted that it's the existence of Israel that's the problem.

Though that doesn't quite explain the pre-Israel massacre of Jews in Hebron, does it?

Let me be very clear in saying that I know some delightful folks from Arab countries (Lebanon and Syria) and have nothing whatsoever against Palestinians or Arabs.

But by any objective measure, the region is intolerant and not pluralistic

Bringing up the Copts as an example of pluralism is RIDICULOUS. They are treated terribly.

Lebanon does have a pluralistic history, one that is under grave threat.

And you know one of the 7 Christians in Jordan (exaggerating for effect, but they make up 3% of the total population).

This great scholar of Lebanese history conveniently forgot that the Lebanese 15 year civil war was started over ARMED Palestinian refugees and that Hezbollah is a product of Iran/Palestinian militia collaboration. She or he (the great scholar) also forgot to mention that the civil war was started because of how diverse the population was and because of how the demographics were changing. There was an exodus of 1 million Lebanese and that the Christian population was greatly reduced. Don’t try to see us Lebanon as an example of integrated ME country.

So are you saying that the chaos caused by Israel expelling Palestinians led to neighboring states experiencing demographic shifts and tension that eventually led to war and internal displacement of people?

Expelled or fled but 110,000 settled in Lebanon never receiving the same rights or citizenship and eventually, once PLO was
expelled from Jordan, PLO set up camp in Beirut. Eventually PLO controlled the southern part of Lebanon. And no, I am not saying the Chaos caused by Israel, this was in 1948. The chaos was caused by UN, the budding Israeli government, and the surrounding Arab states who saw the opportunity to grab some territory for themselves.

The proximate cause of the war was Israel expelling hundreds of thousands of Palestinians and forcing them into camps. PLO was chased from Palestine to Lebanon where Israel followed them with their army to continue the warfare. The fought the war on Lebanese soil and THIS was the direct cause of the Lebanese civil war. So yes, Israel has been named as a direct cause of th war by almost everyone who lives in the country.

There was no PLO in 1948, wtf are you talking about? PLO was established in Jordan and then expelled into Lebanon. Get the mess in your head straight. Was Syrian occupation of Lebanon from 1976 to 2005 a cause of the civil war, or not?

The civil war started in 1975, not 1948, and the Israeli incursions w PLO were the starting point. Syria didn't come in until they were designated as "peace keepers" by the UN after the war ended in 1990. They stayed until the protests started in 2000. PLO moved from Palestine to Tunisia to Lebanon.
You do not know anything about the country.

Just wow. If you no absolutely nothing about Lebanon or the civil war at least go to Wikipedia.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Return the women and children hostages that have been brought deep into Gaza before you pretend to any sort of moral high ground.

Absolutely.

The Israelis and Biden are not talking about getting the hostages back. They have written them off. They abandoned those people on day one. The Israelis say hostages will not impact military operations. Small price to pay for a Gaza annexation free of Palestinians.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Back to reality … IDF must have good intelligence assets now, with the quickening success it has been having with neutralizing important Hamas leaders. This may be displeasing to some people, who are rooting for “that team” against Israel, but it should not be: Hamas cannot hold the people of Gaza hostage anymore.

Do you think this is going to make Gazans pro-Israel? They may kill Hamas, but they've solidified hatred of Israel in another generation.

I don’t think there is literally anything the Israelis can do, ever, to prevent hatred of Israel in another generation of Gazans. The Israelis could return all land and extend full voting rights and become minorities in Israel, and Gazans would still want them eliminated. Israel could 100% capitulate and they’d still face severe violence.

So, wait, the Israelis can hold on to Holocaust trauma, but Palestinians need to let go of theirs? Interesting how that double standard works.

Read the Hamas charter. It's not about trauma, it's about destroying Israel.

It has been since 1948.

Maybe we should start saying ultra nationalists represent all Jews if we are going to hang Hamas on all Palestinians. See how that works?

I didn't hang Hamas on all Palestinians. I think that Hamas and its antecedents are the primary cause of Palestinian suffering.

But pretending that trauma is the cause of Hamas terrorism is simply not accurate.

Hamas wants to destroy Israel (and at one time Rotarians, for reasons I cannot fathom).

Is trauma why Israel is murdering Palestinians and stealing their land?

Nope. I don't think either side can use "trauma" to justify their actions.

The difference is that one side (Hamas) wants to eliminate the other b/c it exists.

Israel does not want to eliminate the Palestinians, though some settlers certainly do.

There is no question that the settlers and their allies do. There are over 500,000 settlers in the West Bank. There are 2 million Gazans of which most are not members of Hamas. If we say 25% of Gazans are fully fledged Hamas adherents that makes the numbers even.

Hamas and the Religious Zionists are two sides of the same coin. They both must be addressed. Minimizing the size of the settler movement while maximizing the size of Hamas is no bueno.

I'll focus on another point of agreement: Hamas and the settlers are both no bueno.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Back to reality … IDF must have good intelligence assets now, with the quickening success it has been having with neutralizing important Hamas leaders. This may be displeasing to some people, who are rooting for “that team” against Israel, but it should not be: Hamas cannot hold the people of Gaza hostage anymore.

Do you think this is going to make Gazans pro-Israel? They may kill Hamas, but they've solidified hatred of Israel in another generation.

They have solidified hatred for Israel in another generation for an entire REGION, not just Gaza. It’s an endless cycle of hatred and violence. As an American I want off this ride.

Do you really not understand the the hatred exists no matter what Israel does?

It is Israel's mere existence that causes the hatred (with a hefty dose of religious intolerance as the cherry on the sundae).

JFC. You guys have to stop the perpetual victimization. It really is so counterproductive to any peace in the region. You cannot argue with the pro-Israel people because they justify murder with "well, my existence bothered him". No, Barbara, it was the fact that you killed his family. If you would stop that, he'd be cool.

Leave Maryland and meet other people. Make friends with Arabs. You will learn that they are humans - just like you - who want to live in peace. If you stop bombing them, they will be ok. It is YOUR hatred that exacerbates this.

So how do you explain the massacre of Jews by Palestinians before the state of Israel even existed?

How do you explain the Arab/Palestinian attempt to eradicate Israel on the day it was founded?

How do you explain the Hamas charter calling for the obliteration of Israel?

I grant you that there are thriving Christian and Jewish populations in many ME countries. I mean, you have ___________, and ____________, and _________________, and ______________. So we have to take those examples into account.

You're a moron. Lebanon was founded as a Christian country by the French. The population was 60/40 Christian to Muslim. Christians are thriving there and there are a lot of them. The president is a Maronite Christian. 10% of Egypt is Coptic. Our best friends are Christians from Jordan. And we are good friends with Lebanese Druze. Do you actually know ANYONE from an Arab country? Anyone at all?

And yes, the native ARabs were very angry on day 1 when they were kicked out of their houses, burned and murdered. It was a pretty disgusting display of violence during the Nakbah.

Ah, so you've just admitted that it's the existence of Israel that's the problem.

Though that doesn't quite explain the pre-Israel massacre of Jews in Hebron, does it?

Let me be very clear in saying that I know some delightful folks from Arab countries (Lebanon and Syria) and have nothing whatsoever against Palestinians or Arabs.

But by any objective measure, the region is intolerant and not pluralistic

Bringing up the Copts as an example of pluralism is RIDICULOUS. They are treated terribly.

Lebanon does have a pluralistic history, one that is under grave threat.

And you know one of the 7 Christians in Jordan (exaggerating for effect, but they make up 3% of the total population).

This great scholar of Lebanese history conveniently forgot that the Lebanese 15 year civil war was started over ARMED Palestinian refugees and that Hezbollah is a product of Iran/Palestinian militia collaboration. She or he (the great scholar) also forgot to mention that the civil war was started because of how diverse the population was and because of how the demographics were changing. There was an exodus of 1 million Lebanese and that the Christian population was greatly reduced. Don’t try to see us Lebanon as an example of integrated ME country.

So are you saying that the chaos caused by Israel expelling Palestinians led to neighboring states experiencing demographic shifts and tension that eventually led to war and internal displacement of people?

Expelled or fled but 110,000 settled in Lebanon never receiving the same rights or citizenship and eventually, once PLO was
expelled from Jordan, PLO set up camp in Beirut. Eventually PLO controlled the southern part of Lebanon. And no, I am not saying the Chaos caused by Israel, this was in 1948. The chaos was caused by UN, the budding Israeli government, and the surrounding Arab states who saw the opportunity to grab some territory for themselves.

The proximate cause of the war was Israel expelling hundreds of thousands of Palestinians and forcing them into camps. PLO was chased from Palestine to Lebanon where Israel followed them with their army to continue the warfare. The fought the war on Lebanese soil and THIS was the direct cause of the Lebanese civil war. So yes, Israel has been named as a direct cause of th war by almost everyone who lives in the country.

There was no PLO in 1948, wtf are you talking about? PLO was established in Jordan and then expelled into Lebanon. Get the mess in your head straight. Was Syrian occupation of Lebanon from 1976 to 2005 a cause of the civil war, or not?

The civil war started in 1975, not 1948, and the Israeli incursions w PLO were the starting point. Syria didn't come in until they were designated as "peace keepers" by the UN after the war ended in 1990. They stayed until the protests started in 2000. PLO moved from Palestine to Tunisia to Lebanon.
You do not know anything about the country.

Just wow. If you no absolutely nothing about Lebanon or the civil war at least go to Wikipedia.

I have been to Lebanon. I have family that live there. My DH lived there during the war, as did all his family. I don't need Wikipedia.
If you have never been there and don't have family living there (or lived and died during the war), you really don't hold much water here.

[Anonymous]

I spoke to someone the other day and they said "my grandmother was born in isreal" I am like bro, youre in your 60s, how in the world is your mom born in isreal when it didnt exist??? Thats how much confusion there is. Its not their land!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Back to reality … IDF must have good intelligence assets now, with the quickening success it has been having with neutralizing important Hamas leaders. This may be displeasing to some people, who are rooting for “that team” against Israel, but it should not be: Hamas cannot hold the people of Gaza hostage anymore.

Do you think this is going to make Gazans pro-Israel? They may kill Hamas, but they've solidified hatred of Israel in another generation.

I don’t think there is literally anything the Israelis can do, ever, to prevent hatred of Israel in another generation of Gazans. The Israelis could return all land and extend full voting rights and become minorities in Israel, and Gazans would still want them eliminated. Israel could 100% capitulate and they’d still face severe violence.

Has Israel ever actually tried… not killing Palestinians? Like there’s this accusation flying about that Palestinians want all Israelis dead no matter what Israel does, but Israel has never actually tried the very basic… not killing Palestinians as a first step. Or at least to verify this claim.

This isn’t unique to Palestinians. As history has shown, most populations want to eliminate their Jewish population. The Palestinians are no different.

This is a lie. I think you feel special when you think people want to harm you. Maybe that's why you keep harping about how antisemetic the whole world is. Playing victim seems to be your reason for being.

It's not a lie - and I'd invite you to notice how quickly so many people on every part of the political spectrum turn to blaming Jews - and "Zionists" - for whatever they don't like in the world.

I don't blame you if you aren't aware, or choose not to see it for what it is. Jews have this in our DNA, and we see, and we know what it means.

There was guy in Germany in the 1930s who talked about how unique and different Jews were. He even hired doctors who set out to show that genetically Jews were not like everyone else. Your description, less than one hundred years later, so closely parallels that evil way of thinking, it’s appalling.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Back to reality … IDF must have good intelligence assets now, with the quickening success it has been having with neutralizing important Hamas leaders. This may be displeasing to some people, who are rooting for “that team” against Israel, but it should not be: Hamas cannot hold the people of Gaza hostage anymore.

Do you think this is going to make Gazans pro-Israel? They may kill Hamas, but they've solidified hatred of Israel in another generation.

I don’t think there is literally anything the Israelis can do, ever, to prevent hatred of Israel in another generation of Gazans. The Israelis could return all land and extend full voting rights and become minorities in Israel, and Gazans would still want them eliminated. Israel could 100% capitulate and they’d still face severe violence.

Has Israel ever actually tried… not killing Palestinians? Like there’s this accusation flying about that Palestinians want all Israelis dead no matter what Israel does, but Israel has never actually tried the very basic… not killing Palestinians as a first step. Or at least to verify this claim.

This isn’t unique to Palestinians. As history has shown, most populations want to eliminate their Jewish population. The Palestinians are no different.

This is a lie. I think you feel special when you think people want to harm you. Maybe that's why you keep harping about how antisemetic the whole world is. Playing victim seems to be your reason for being.

It's not a lie - and I'd invite you to notice how quickly so many people on every part of the political spectrum turn to blaming Jews - and "Zionists" - for whatever they don't like in the world.

I don't blame you if you aren't aware, or choose not to see it for what it is. Jews have this in our DNA, and we see, and we know what it means.

In your DNA? So it's more than religious brainwashing? Who knew.

DP here.

In my experience, Jewish fear and Black fear are very similar, stemming from centuries/millennia of oppression and mistreatment.

You want to minimize both, that's your prerogative I suppose.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I spoke to someone the other day and they said "my grandmother was born in isreal" I am like bro, youre in your 60s, how in the world is your mom born in isreal when it didnt exist??? Thats how much confusion there is. Its not their land!

You are "like bro"?

You're in the wrong place.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Return the women and children hostages that have been brought deep into Gaza before you pretend to any sort of moral high ground.

Absolutely.

The Israelis and Biden are not talking about getting the hostages back. They have written them off. They abandoned those people on day one. The Israelis say hostages will not impact military operations. Small price to pay for a Gaza annexation free of Palestinians.

People thinking Bibi was masterminding some big rescue mission, you all got played.

[Anonymous]

European intelligence sources point to 10-50 deaths at the hospital, not the much, much larger number claimed by the Hamas mouthpiece Ministry.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Back to reality … IDF must have good intelligence assets now, with the quickening success it has been having with neutralizing important Hamas leaders. This may be displeasing to some people, who are rooting for “that team” against Israel, but it should not be: Hamas cannot hold the people of Gaza hostage anymore.

Do you think this is going to make Gazans pro-Israel? They may kill Hamas, but they've solidified hatred of Israel in another generation.

I don’t think there is literally anything the Israelis can do, ever, to prevent hatred of Israel in another generation of Gazans. The Israelis could return all land and extend full voting rights and become minorities in Israel, and Gazans would still want them eliminated. Israel could 100% capitulate and they’d still face severe violence.

Has Israel ever actually tried… not killing Palestinians? Like there’s this accusation flying about that Palestinians want all Israelis dead no matter what Israel does, but Israel has never actually tried the very basic… not killing Palestinians as a first step. Or at least to verify this claim.

This isn’t unique to Palestinians. As history has shown, most populations want to eliminate their Jewish population. The Palestinians are no different.

This is a lie. I think you feel special when you think people want to harm you. Maybe that's why you keep harping about how antisemetic the whole world is. Playing victim seems to be your reason for being.

It's not a lie - and I'd invite you to notice how quickly so many people on every part of the political spectrum turn to blaming Jews - and "Zionists" - for whatever they don't like in the world.

I don't blame you if you aren't aware, or choose not to see it for what it is. Jews have this in our DNA, and we see, and we know what it means.

Do you think PP gaslights other groups, or just Jews.

All if these pro-Hamas posters are making the best case for the need for a Jewish state. There is no Jews can depend on anyone else for our safety. You people wouldn't even call the abductions and rape of our women and children "terrorism".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Return the women and children hostages that have been brought deep into Gaza before you pretend to any sort of moral high ground.

Absolutely.

The Israelis and Biden are not talking about getting the hostages back. They have written them off. They abandoned those people on day one. The Israelis say hostages will not impact military operations. Small price to pay for a Gaza annexation free of Palestinians.

People thinking Bibi was masterminding some big rescue mission, you all got played.

No one thought that. Not sure why you seem to be laffing at the hostage situation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The morality is really clear hear, people. President Biden put it well yesterday.

Yeah he “put it well”

“Shoot em straight”

“I think the bomb came from the other team”

He couldn’t even at least call them terrorists. He said “team”. Notice the language here. Seemingly was Hamas. Appears to be Jihad. It’s language that lets you know the media is lying. Five years from now, Israel will quietly admit it was them that hit the hospital after they warned it but by then nobody will care.

He said the Palestinians need to learn to shoot straight. As in hit your targets in Israel and kill Israelis. Best you could say he was making fun of the 500 dead Palestinians. With these words and his visit to Israel he has emboldened the Israel right to kill Palestinians. Biden is heading back to Washington to get the weapons needed to kill and punish the Palestinians. There are no strings attached.
The region does not see things through US media -Israel can do no wrong against these “animals”. This will get a lot worst very soon.

Oh please. You’re on edge and looking for a story where there isn’t one. He made a quip about Hamas’s moronic use of unstable weapons in civilian areas. Maybe in poor taste but I am sure POTUS does not want any more civilian blood spilled- Israeli or Palestinian. Part of his trip to Israel was to reinforce restraint.

Israel is going to go into Gaza. They have no choice. And it will be bloody on both sides because Hamas infiltrates themselves within deeply populated civilian areas as a shield. But biden went to encourage more humanitarian relief where possible- sending aid across the border, among other things. War is a horrible situation but israel did not ask Hamas to instigate one with a mass terror attack and hostage event