Looks like a new Gaza war has started

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Back to reality … IDF must have good intelligence assets now, with the quickening success it has been having with neutralizing important Hamas leaders. This may be displeasing to some people, who are rooting for “that team” against Israel, but it should not be: Hamas cannot hold the people of Gaza hostage anymore.

Do you think this is going to make Gazans pro-Israel? They may kill Hamas, but they've solidified hatred of Israel in another generation.

I don’t think there is literally anything the Israelis can do, ever, to prevent hatred of Israel in another generation of Gazans. The Israelis could return all land and extend full voting rights and become minorities in Israel, and Gazans would still want them eliminated. Israel could 100% capitulate and they’d still face severe violence.

So, wait, the Israelis can hold on to Holocaust trauma, but Palestinians need to let go of theirs? Interesting how that double standard works.

Read the Hamas charter. It's not about trauma, it's about destroying Israel.

It has been since 1948.

Maybe we should start saying ultra nationalists represent all Jews if we are going to hang Hamas on all Palestinians. See how that works?

I didn't hang Hamas on all Palestinians. I think that Hamas and its antecedents are the primary cause of Palestinian suffering.

But pretending that trauma is the cause of Hamas terrorism is simply not accurate.

Hamas wants to destroy Israel (and at one time Rotarians, for reasons I cannot fathom).

Then explain the west bank

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Back to reality … IDF must have good intelligence assets now, with the quickening success it has been having with neutralizing important Hamas leaders. This may be displeasing to some people, who are rooting for “that team” against Israel, but it should not be: Hamas cannot hold the people of Gaza hostage anymore.

Do you think this is going to make Gazans pro-Israel? They may kill Hamas, but they've solidified hatred of Israel in another generation.

I don’t think there is literally anything the Israelis can do, ever, to prevent hatred of Israel in another generation of Gazans. The Israelis could return all land and extend full voting rights and become minorities in Israel, and Gazans would still want them eliminated. Israel could 100% capitulate and they’d still face severe violence.

So, wait, the Israelis can hold on to Holocaust trauma, but Palestinians need to let go of theirs? Interesting how that double standard works.

Palestinians don’t have Holocaust trauma. But many Israelis have new trauma from what our president called the worst attack on Jews since the Holocaust.

And Palestinians have decades of trauma caused by Israel. Your suffering and trauma is not special.

It is, actually.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Return the women and children hostages that have been brought deep into Gaza before you pretend to any sort of moral high ground.

Stop murdering Palestinians before you pretend to any sort of moral high ground.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Back to reality … IDF must have good intelligence assets now, with the quickening success it has been having with neutralizing important Hamas leaders. This may be displeasing to some people, who are rooting for “that team” against Israel, but it should not be: Hamas cannot hold the people of Gaza hostage anymore.

Do you think this is going to make Gazans pro-Israel? They may kill Hamas, but they've solidified hatred of Israel in another generation.

They have solidified hatred for Israel in another generation for an entire REGION, not just Gaza. It’s an endless cycle of hatred and violence. As an American I want off this ride.

Do you really not understand the the hatred exists no matter what Israel does?

It is Israel's mere existence that causes the hatred (with a hefty dose of religious intolerance as the cherry on the sundae).

JFC. You guys have to stop the perpetual victimization. It really is so counterproductive to any peace in the region. You cannot argue with the pro-Israel people because they justify murder with "well, my existence bothered him". No, Barbara, it was the fact that you killed his family. If you would stop that, he'd be cool.

Leave Maryland and meet other people. Make friends with Arabs. You will learn that they are humans - just like you - who want to live in peace. If you stop bombing them, they will be ok. It is YOUR hatred that exacerbates this.

So how do you explain the massacre of Jews by Palestinians before the state of Israel even existed?

How do you explain the Arab/Palestinian attempt to eradicate Israel on the day it was founded?

How do you explain the Hamas charter calling for the obliteration of Israel?

I grant you that there are thriving Christian and Jewish populations in many ME countries. I mean, you have ___________, and ____________, and _________________, and ______________. So we have to take those examples into account.

You're a moron. Lebanon was founded as a Christian country by the French. The population was 60/40 Christian to Muslim. Christians are thriving there and there are a lot of them. The president is a Maronite Christian. 10% of Egypt is Coptic. Our best friends are Christians from Jordan. And we are good friends with Lebanese Druze. Do you actually know ANYONE from an Arab country? Anyone at all?

And yes, the native ARabs were very angry on day 1 when they were kicked out of their houses, burned and murdered. It was a pretty disgusting display of violence during the Nakbah.

Ah, so you've just admitted that it's the existence of Israel that's the problem.

Though that doesn't quite explain the pre-Israel massacre of Jews in Hebron, does it?

Let me be very clear in saying that I know some delightful folks from Arab countries (Lebanon and Syria) and have nothing whatsoever against Palestinians or Arabs.

But by any objective measure, the region is intolerant and not pluralistic

Bringing up the Copts as an example of pluralism is RIDICULOUS. They are treated terribly.

Lebanon does have a pluralistic history, one that is under grave threat.

And you know one of the 7 Christians in Jordan (exaggerating for effect, but they make up 3% of the total population).

Ugh. It was the killing and murdering people to get them out of homes that was the problem. And continues to be the problem.
And stop with the Islamophobia already. I would not describe most of Israel as "tolerant and pluralistic" given the current government.
You really keep making things worse.

I don't know if any of the pro-Israel PPs who keep claiming generational suffering have ever met a Palestinian or any other Arabs from the region, or even follow any on X. I would really recommend that you try to hear their POV to see what it's like to live under bombings and oppression for so long. Read - https://twitter.com/iyad_elbaghdadi/status/1714985262873190512?s=42&t=CjYah8aRcPR-pKSS0zmNGA

It's long but I wonder if what he says will resonate?

"For 10 days we've been hearing openly genocidal statements fully supported and sometimes even endorsed by Western leaders, leaders who are supposed to stand up for "democracy", "human rights", etc. But not only for 10 days. This has been our entire lives. This has been 75 years....I also want to say that even in the deepest darkness of my anguish and my triggers I did not desire revenge. Not even a little bit. I didn't want anyone hurt to quench my pain. All I want in the moment was for our lives to be protected and our humanity to be acknowledged....Every friend I talk to is deeply triggered. For Palestinians the triggers are intergenerational. We grew up seeing our people getting blown up or humiliated or subjugated or shot or beaten. Our parents grew up with that. Our grandparents. All of our trauma is exploding."

Sound familiar?

I think you're misunderstanding many of the "pro-Israel" supporters' positions.

I have tremendous sympathy for the Palestinian people and their suffering.

I strongly support a 2-state solution.

I also think that the current situation is largely the result of the Palestinian leadership's actions over the last 75 years (though I also deplore the current Israeli government, the settlers, etc.).

It doesn’t matter what you support. The Israeli government has destroyed the possibility of a two state solution. There is no step state solution. Israel has made it clear it wants the West Bank without the people, but that is not an option. So it is choosing apartheid.

Are you 100% sure of this? I had no idea apartheid was being considered. What is your source? This is scary

It's already an apartheid state, unless you think corralling 2 million people in a pen and restricting their rights is normal.

The US Government seems to be more supportive of Israel in this conflict and we know the US Government wouldn't support apartheid so that debunks your conspiracy theory. Nice try.

The US government? Never!

At least not in the past 150 years anyway

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Back to reality … IDF must have good intelligence assets now, with the quickening success it has been having with neutralizing important Hamas leaders. This may be displeasing to some people, who are rooting for “that team” against Israel, but it should not be: Hamas cannot hold the people of Gaza hostage anymore.

Do you think this is going to make Gazans pro-Israel? They may kill Hamas, but they've solidified hatred of Israel in another generation.

I don’t think there is literally anything the Israelis can do, ever, to prevent hatred of Israel in another generation of Gazans. The Israelis could return all land and extend full voting rights and become minorities in Israel, and Gazans would still want them eliminated. Israel could 100% capitulate and they’d still face severe violence.

So, wait, the Israelis can hold on to Holocaust trauma, but Palestinians need to let go of theirs? Interesting how that double standard works.

Palestinians don’t have Holocaust trauma. But many Israelis have new trauma from what our president called the worst attack on Jews since the Holocaust.

The Holocaust lasted a few years, Palestinians have been traumatized for close to a century.

Six million Jews died.

You seem to be very friendly with the people who killed them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Back to reality … IDF must have good intelligence assets now, with the quickening success it has been having with neutralizing important Hamas leaders. This may be displeasing to some people, who are rooting for “that team” against Israel, but it should not be: Hamas cannot hold the people of Gaza hostage anymore.

Do you think this is going to make Gazans pro-Israel? They may kill Hamas, but they've solidified hatred of Israel in another generation.

They have solidified hatred for Israel in another generation for an entire REGION, not just Gaza. It’s an endless cycle of hatred and violence. As an American I want off this ride.

Do you really not understand the the hatred exists no matter what Israel does?

It is Israel's mere existence that causes the hatred (with a hefty dose of religious intolerance as the cherry on the sundae).

JFC. You guys have to stop the perpetual victimization. It really is so counterproductive to any peace in the region. You cannot argue with the pro-Israel people because they justify murder with "well, my existence bothered him". No, Barbara, it was the fact that you killed his family. If you would stop that, he'd be cool.

Leave Maryland and meet other people. Make friends with Arabs. You will learn that they are humans - just like you - who want to live in peace. If you stop bombing them, they will be ok. It is YOUR hatred that exacerbates this.

So how do you explain the massacre of Jews by Palestinians before the state of Israel even existed?

How do you explain the Arab/Palestinian attempt to eradicate Israel on the day it was founded?

How do you explain the Hamas charter calling for the obliteration of Israel?

I grant you that there are thriving Christian and Jewish populations in many ME countries. I mean, you have ___________, and ____________, and _________________, and ______________. So we have to take those examples into account.

You're a moron. Lebanon was founded as a Christian country by the French. The population was 60/40 Christian to Muslim. Christians are thriving there and there are a lot of them. The president is a Maronite Christian. 10% of Egypt is Coptic. Our best friends are Christians from Jordan. And we are good friends with Lebanese Druze. Do you actually know ANYONE from an Arab country? Anyone at all?

And yes, the native ARabs were very angry on day 1 when they were kicked out of their houses, burned and murdered. It was a pretty disgusting display of violence during the Nakbah.

Ah, so you've just admitted that it's the existence of Israel that's the problem.

Though that doesn't quite explain the pre-Israel massacre of Jews in Hebron, does it?

Let me be very clear in saying that I know some delightful folks from Arab countries (Lebanon and Syria) and have nothing whatsoever against Palestinians or Arabs.

But by any objective measure, the region is intolerant and not pluralistic

Bringing up the Copts as an example of pluralism is RIDICULOUS. They are treated terribly.

Lebanon does have a pluralistic history, one that is under grave threat.

And you know one of the 7 Christians in Jordan (exaggerating for effect, but they make up 3% of the total population).

Ugh. It was the killing and murdering people to get them out of homes that was the problem. And continues to be the problem.
And stop with the Islamophobia already. I would not describe most of Israel as "tolerant and pluralistic" given the current government.
You really keep making things worse.

I don't know if any of the pro-Israel PPs who keep claiming generational suffering have ever met a Palestinian or any other Arabs from the region, or even follow any on X. I would really recommend that you try to hear their POV to see what it's like to live under bombings and oppression for so long. Read - https://twitter.com/iyad_elbaghdadi/status/1714985262873190512?s=42&t=CjYah8aRcPR-pKSS0zmNGA

It's long but I wonder if what he says will resonate?

"For 10 days we've been hearing openly genocidal statements fully supported and sometimes even endorsed by Western leaders, leaders who are supposed to stand up for "democracy", "human rights", etc. But not only for 10 days. This has been our entire lives. This has been 75 years....I also want to say that even in the deepest darkness of my anguish and my triggers I did not desire revenge. Not even a little bit. I didn't want anyone hurt to quench my pain. All I want in the moment was for our lives to be protected and our humanity to be acknowledged....Every friend I talk to is deeply triggered. For Palestinians the triggers are intergenerational. We grew up seeing our people getting blown up or humiliated or subjugated or shot or beaten. Our parents grew up with that. Our grandparents. All of our trauma is exploding."

Sound familiar?

I think you're misunderstanding many of the "pro-Israel" supporters' positions.

I have tremendous sympathy for the Palestinian people and their suffering.

I strongly support a 2-state solution.

I also think that the current situation is largely the result of the Palestinian leadership's actions over the last 75 years (though I also deplore the current Israeli government, the settlers, etc.).

It doesn’t matter what you support. The Israeli government has destroyed the possibility of a two state solution. There is no step state solution. Israel has made it clear it wants the West Bank without the people, but that is not an option. So it is choosing apartheid.

Are you 100% sure of this? I had no idea apartheid was being considered. What is your source? This is scary

Amnesty international
https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/campaigns/2022/02/israels-system-of-apartheid/
Human Rights Watch
https://www.hrw.org/report/2021/04/27/threshold-crossed/israeli-authorities-and-crimes-apartheid-and-persecution
The UN
https://news.un.org/en/story/2022/03/1114702

Is there any respected international organization who says that Israel isn't an apartheid country? Can you even point to 1?

Mandela even called it apartheid. But somehow these middle aged ladies living in their multi million dollar homes in Maryland having never experienced oppression or adversity in their lives know better than Mandela

why do you keep repeating the line about “middle aged ladies ….” ?Seems pretty weird.

That poster is clearly a self-loathing, deeply misogynist woman. It’s common among the progressive left now. She used middle-aged ladies as an insult because in her mind, there is nothing worse than an older woman with an opinion.

She can’t help letting her misogyny leak out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Back to reality … IDF must have good intelligence assets now, with the quickening success it has been having with neutralizing important Hamas leaders. This may be displeasing to some people, who are rooting for “that team” against Israel, but it should not be: Hamas cannot hold the people of Gaza hostage anymore.

Do you think this is going to make Gazans pro-Israel? They may kill Hamas, but they've solidified hatred of Israel in another generation.

I don’t think there is literally anything the Israelis can do, ever, to prevent hatred of Israel in another generation of Gazans. The Israelis could return all land and extend full voting rights and become minorities in Israel, and Gazans would still want them eliminated. Israel could 100% capitulate and they’d still face severe violence.

So, wait, the Israelis can hold on to Holocaust trauma, but Palestinians need to let go of theirs? Interesting how that double standard works.

Read the Hamas charter. It's not about trauma, it's about destroying Israel.

It has been since 1948.

Maybe we should start saying ultra nationalists represent all Jews if we are going to hang Hamas on all Palestinians. See how that works?

I didn't hang Hamas on all Palestinians. I think that Hamas and its antecedents are the primary cause of Palestinian suffering.

But pretending that trauma is the cause of Hamas terrorism is simply not accurate.

Hamas wants to destroy Israel (and at one time Rotarians, for reasons I cannot fathom).

Is trauma why Israel is murdering Palestinians and stealing their land?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Back to reality … IDF must have good intelligence assets now, with the quickening success it has been having with neutralizing important Hamas leaders. This may be displeasing to some people, who are rooting for “that team” against Israel, but it should not be: Hamas cannot hold the people of Gaza hostage anymore.

Do you think this is going to make Gazans pro-Israel? They may kill Hamas, but they've solidified hatred of Israel in another generation.

I don’t think there is literally anything the Israelis can do, ever, to prevent hatred of Israel in another generation of Gazans. The Israelis could return all land and extend full voting rights and become minorities in Israel, and Gazans would still want them eliminated. Israel could 100% capitulate and they’d still face severe violence.

So, wait, the Israelis can hold on to Holocaust trauma, but Palestinians need to let go of theirs? Interesting how that double standard works.

Palestinians don’t have Holocaust trauma. But many Israelis have new trauma from what our president called the worst attack on Jews since the Holocaust.

The Holocaust lasted a few years, Palestinians have been traumatized for close to a century.

No matter how it came about, if someone can’t acknowledge that Palestinians have trauma of their own, I’m no longer interested in discussing the ME with them. If you are so self-absorbed that you cannot see others are suffering, too, there is not hope to end this conflict.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Back to reality … IDF must have good intelligence assets now, with the quickening success it has been having with neutralizing important Hamas leaders. This may be displeasing to some people, who are rooting for “that team” against Israel, but it should not be: Hamas cannot hold the people of Gaza hostage anymore.

Do you think this is going to make Gazans pro-Israel? They may kill Hamas, but they've solidified hatred of Israel in another generation.

They have solidified hatred for Israel in another generation for an entire REGION, not just Gaza. It’s an endless cycle of hatred and violence. As an American I want off this ride.

Do you really not understand the the hatred exists no matter what Israel does?

It is Israel's mere existence that causes the hatred (with a hefty dose of religious intolerance as the cherry on the sundae).

JFC. You guys have to stop the perpetual victimization. It really is so counterproductive to any peace in the region. You cannot argue with the pro-Israel people because they justify murder with "well, my existence bothered him". No, Barbara, it was the fact that you killed his family. If you would stop that, he'd be cool.

Leave Maryland and meet other people. Make friends with Arabs. You will learn that they are humans - just like you - who want to live in peace. If you stop bombing them, they will be ok. It is YOUR hatred that exacerbates this.

So how do you explain the massacre of Jews by Palestinians before the state of Israel even existed?

How do you explain the Arab/Palestinian attempt to eradicate Israel on the day it was founded?

How do you explain the Hamas charter calling for the obliteration of Israel?

I grant you that there are thriving Christian and Jewish populations in many ME countries. I mean, you have ___________, and ____________, and _________________, and ______________. So we have to take those examples into account.

You're a moron. Lebanon was founded as a Christian country by the French. The population was 60/40 Christian to Muslim. Christians are thriving there and there are a lot of them. The president is a Maronite Christian. 10% of Egypt is Coptic. Our best friends are Christians from Jordan. And we are good friends with Lebanese Druze. Do you actually know ANYONE from an Arab country? Anyone at all?

And yes, the native ARabs were very angry on day 1 when they were kicked out of their houses, burned and murdered. It was a pretty disgusting display of violence during the Nakbah.

Ah, so you've just admitted that it's the existence of Israel that's the problem.

Though that doesn't quite explain the pre-Israel massacre of Jews in Hebron, does it?

Let me be very clear in saying that I know some delightful folks from Arab countries (Lebanon and Syria) and have nothing whatsoever against Palestinians or Arabs.

But by any objective measure, the region is intolerant and not pluralistic

Bringing up the Copts as an example of pluralism is RIDICULOUS. They are treated terribly.

Lebanon does have a pluralistic history, one that is under grave threat.

And you know one of the 7 Christians in Jordan (exaggerating for effect, but they make up 3% of the total population).

Ugh. It was the killing and murdering people to get them out of homes that was the problem. And continues to be the problem.
And stop with the Islamophobia already. I would not describe most of Israel as "tolerant and pluralistic" given the current government.
You really keep making things worse.

I don't know if any of the pro-Israel PPs who keep claiming generational suffering have ever met a Palestinian or any other Arabs from the region, or even follow any on X. I would really recommend that you try to hear their POV to see what it's like to live under bombings and oppression for so long. Read - https://twitter.com/iyad_elbaghdadi/status/1714985262873190512?s=42&t=CjYah8aRcPR-pKSS0zmNGA

It's long but I wonder if what he says will resonate?

"For 10 days we've been hearing openly genocidal statements fully supported and sometimes even endorsed by Western leaders, leaders who are supposed to stand up for "democracy", "human rights", etc. But not only for 10 days. This has been our entire lives. This has been 75 years....I also want to say that even in the deepest darkness of my anguish and my triggers I did not desire revenge. Not even a little bit. I didn't want anyone hurt to quench my pain. All I want in the moment was for our lives to be protected and our humanity to be acknowledged....Every friend I talk to is deeply triggered. For Palestinians the triggers are intergenerational. We grew up seeing our people getting blown up or humiliated or subjugated or shot or beaten. Our parents grew up with that. Our grandparents. All of our trauma is exploding."

Sound familiar?

I think you're misunderstanding many of the "pro-Israel" supporters' positions.

I have tremendous sympathy for the Palestinian people and their suffering.

I strongly support a 2-state solution.

I also think that the current situation is largely the result of the Palestinian leadership's actions over the last 75 years (though I also deplore the current Israeli government, the settlers, etc.).

It doesn’t matter what you support. The Israeli government has destroyed the possibility of a two state solution. There is no step state solution. Israel has made it clear it wants the West Bank without the people, but that is not an option. So it is choosing apartheid.

Are you 100% sure of this? I had no idea apartheid was being considered. What is your source? This is scary

It's already an apartheid state, unless you think corralling 2 million people in a pen and restricting their rights is normal.

The US Government seems to be more supportive of Israel in this conflict and we know the US Government wouldn't support apartheid so that debunks your conspiracy theory. Nice try.

Well, we did. From 1980-1986, the US government policy toward South Africa was called "constructive engagement". In 1986 Congress passed the Comprehensive anti-Apartheid Act, which Reagan vetoed, but then Congress overrode the veto. From '86-89, the Reagan Administration only partially enforced the provisions of the law. Only in 1989, with the inauguration of George HW Bush, did we finally implement that law in full.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Back to reality … IDF must have good intelligence assets now, with the quickening success it has been having with neutralizing important Hamas leaders. This may be displeasing to some people, who are rooting for “that team” against Israel, but it should not be: Hamas cannot hold the people of Gaza hostage anymore.

Do you think this is going to make Gazans pro-Israel? They may kill Hamas, but they've solidified hatred of Israel in another generation.

I don’t think there is literally anything the Israelis can do, ever, to prevent hatred of Israel in another generation of Gazans. The Israelis could return all land and extend full voting rights and become minorities in Israel, and Gazans would still want them eliminated. Israel could 100% capitulate and they’d still face severe violence.

Has Israel ever actually tried… not killing Palestinians? Like there’s this accusation flying about that Palestinians want all Israelis dead no matter what Israel does, but Israel has never actually tried the very basic… not killing Palestinians as a first step. Or at least to verify this claim.

This isn’t unique to Palestinians. As history has shown, most populations want to eliminate their Jewish population. The Palestinians are no different.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Back to reality … IDF must have good intelligence assets now, with the quickening success it has been having with neutralizing important Hamas leaders. This may be displeasing to some people, who are rooting for “that team” against Israel, but it should not be: Hamas cannot hold the people of Gaza hostage anymore.

Do you think this is going to make Gazans pro-Israel? They may kill Hamas, but they've solidified hatred of Israel in another generation.

They have solidified hatred for Israel in another generation for an entire REGION, not just Gaza. It’s an endless cycle of hatred and violence. As an American I want off this ride.

Do you really not understand the the hatred exists no matter what Israel does?

It is Israel's mere existence that causes the hatred (with a hefty dose of religious intolerance as the cherry on the sundae).

JFC. You guys have to stop the perpetual victimization. It really is so counterproductive to any peace in the region. You cannot argue with the pro-Israel people because they justify murder with "well, my existence bothered him". No, Barbara, it was the fact that you killed his family. If you would stop that, he'd be cool.

Leave Maryland and meet other people. Make friends with Arabs. You will learn that they are humans - just like you - who want to live in peace. If you stop bombing them, they will be ok. It is YOUR hatred that exacerbates this.

So how do you explain the massacre of Jews by Palestinians before the state of Israel even existed?

How do you explain the Arab/Palestinian attempt to eradicate Israel on the day it was founded?

How do you explain the Hamas charter calling for the obliteration of Israel?

I grant you that there are thriving Christian and Jewish populations in many ME countries. I mean, you have ___________, and ____________, and _________________, and ______________. So we have to take those examples into account.

You're a moron. Lebanon was founded as a Christian country by the French. The population was 60/40 Christian to Muslim. Christians are thriving there and there are a lot of them. The president is a Maronite Christian. 10% of Egypt is Coptic. Our best friends are Christians from Jordan. And we are good friends with Lebanese Druze. Do you actually know ANYONE from an Arab country? Anyone at all?

And yes, the native ARabs were very angry on day 1 when they were kicked out of their houses, burned and murdered. It was a pretty disgusting display of violence during the Nakbah.

Ah, so you've just admitted that it's the existence of Israel that's the problem.

Though that doesn't quite explain the pre-Israel massacre of Jews in Hebron, does it?

Let me be very clear in saying that I know some delightful folks from Arab countries (Lebanon and Syria) and have nothing whatsoever against Palestinians or Arabs.

But by any objective measure, the region is intolerant and not pluralistic

Bringing up the Copts as an example of pluralism is RIDICULOUS. They are treated terribly.

Lebanon does have a pluralistic history, one that is under grave threat.

And you know one of the 7 Christians in Jordan (exaggerating for effect, but they make up 3% of the total population).

Ugh. It was the killing and murdering people to get them out of homes that was the problem. And continues to be the problem.
And stop with the Islamophobia already. I would not describe most of Israel as "tolerant and pluralistic" given the current government.
You really keep making things worse.

I don't know if any of the pro-Israel PPs who keep claiming generational suffering have ever met a Palestinian or any other Arabs from the region, or even follow any on X. I would really recommend that you try to hear their POV to see what it's like to live under bombings and oppression for so long. Read - https://twitter.com/iyad_elbaghdadi/status/1714985262873190512?s=42&t=CjYah8aRcPR-pKSS0zmNGA

It's long but I wonder if what he says will resonate?

"For 10 days we've been hearing openly genocidal statements fully supported and sometimes even endorsed by Western leaders, leaders who are supposed to stand up for "democracy", "human rights", etc. But not only for 10 days. This has been our entire lives. This has been 75 years....I also want to say that even in the deepest darkness of my anguish and my triggers I did not desire revenge. Not even a little bit. I didn't want anyone hurt to quench my pain. All I want in the moment was for our lives to be protected and our humanity to be acknowledged....Every friend I talk to is deeply triggered. For Palestinians the triggers are intergenerational. We grew up seeing our people getting blown up or humiliated or subjugated or shot or beaten. Our parents grew up with that. Our grandparents. All of our trauma is exploding."

Sound familiar?

I think you're misunderstanding many of the "pro-Israel" supporters' positions.

I have tremendous sympathy for the Palestinian people and their suffering.

I strongly support a 2-state solution.

I also think that the current situation is largely the result of the Palestinian leadership's actions over the last 75 years (though I also deplore the current Israeli government, the settlers, etc.).

It doesn’t matter what you support. The Israeli government has destroyed the possibility of a two state solution. There is no step state solution. Israel has made it clear it wants the West Bank without the people, but that is not an option. So it is choosing apartheid.

Are you 100% sure of this? I had no idea apartheid was being considered. What is your source? This is scary

It's already an apartheid state, unless you think corralling 2 million people in a pen and restricting their rights is normal.

The US Government seems to be more supportive of Israel in this conflict and we know the US Government wouldn't support apartheid so that debunks your conspiracy theory. Nice try.

Nice attempt to deflect the point that it's already an apartheid state.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Back to reality … IDF must have good intelligence assets now, with the quickening success it has been having with neutralizing important Hamas leaders. This may be displeasing to some people, who are rooting for “that team” against Israel, but it should not be: Hamas cannot hold the people of Gaza hostage anymore.

Do you think this is going to make Gazans pro-Israel? They may kill Hamas, but they've solidified hatred of Israel in another generation.

I don’t think there is literally anything the Israelis can do, ever, to prevent hatred of Israel in another generation of Gazans. The Israelis could return all land and extend full voting rights and become minorities in Israel, and Gazans would still want them eliminated. Israel could 100% capitulate and they’d still face severe violence.

Has Israel ever actually tried… not killing Palestinians? Like there’s this accusation flying about that Palestinians want all Israelis dead no matter what Israel does, but Israel has never actually tried the very basic… not killing Palestinians as a first step. Or at least to verify this claim.

This isn’t unique to Palestinians. As history has shown, most populations want to eliminate their Jewish population. The Palestinians are no different.

You seem unable to answer the question. Has Israel ever bothered to simply not-kill Palestinians?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Back to reality … IDF must have good intelligence assets now, with the quickening success it has been having with neutralizing important Hamas leaders. This may be displeasing to some people, who are rooting for “that team” against Israel, but it should not be: Hamas cannot hold the people of Gaza hostage anymore.

Do you think this is going to make Gazans pro-Israel? They may kill Hamas, but they've solidified hatred of Israel in another generation.

I don’t think there is literally anything the Israelis can do, ever, to prevent hatred of Israel in another generation of Gazans. The Israelis could return all land and extend full voting rights and become minorities in Israel, and Gazans would still want them eliminated. Israel could 100% capitulate and they’d still face severe violence.

So, wait, the Israelis can hold on to Holocaust trauma, but Palestinians need to let go of theirs? Interesting how that double standard works.

Palestinians don’t have Holocaust trauma. But many Israelis have new trauma from what our president called the worst attack on Jews since the Holocaust.

And Palestinians have decades of trauma caused by Israel. Your suffering and trauma is not special.

It is, actually.

OMG. What a way to crap on people around the world, over the centuries who’ve suffered.

And where exactly are you writing from? Not an IDF bunker, in all likelihood. You’re sitting in your posh suburban life with money, food, education talking about how unique your suffering is. The more you talk, the more you alienate people who were sympathetic even just a week ago.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Back to reality … IDF must have good intelligence assets now, with the quickening success it has been having with neutralizing important Hamas leaders. This may be displeasing to some people, who are rooting for “that team” against Israel, but it should not be: Hamas cannot hold the people of Gaza hostage anymore.

Do you think this is going to make Gazans pro-Israel? They may kill Hamas, but they've solidified hatred of Israel in another generation.

I don’t think there is literally anything the Israelis can do, ever, to prevent hatred of Israel in another generation of Gazans. The Israelis could return all land and extend full voting rights and become minorities in Israel, and Gazans would still want them eliminated. Israel could 100% capitulate and they’d still face severe violence.

So, wait, the Israelis can hold on to Holocaust trauma, but Palestinians need to let go of theirs? Interesting how that double standard works.

Read the Hamas charter. It's not about trauma, it's about destroying Israel.

It has been since 1948.

Maybe we should start saying ultra nationalists represent all Jews if we are going to hang Hamas on all Palestinians. See how that works?

I didn't hang Hamas on all Palestinians. I think that Hamas and its antecedents are the primary cause of Palestinian suffering.

But pretending that trauma is the cause of Hamas terrorism is simply not accurate.

Hamas wants to destroy Israel (and at one time Rotarians, for reasons I cannot fathom).

Then explain the west bank

Far right Jewish settlers trying to take advantage of the conflict to steal land?

I have no problem being honest about this situation. Can you say the same?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Back to reality … IDF must have good intelligence assets now, with the quickening success it has been having with neutralizing important Hamas leaders. This may be displeasing to some people, who are rooting for “that team” against Israel, but it should not be: Hamas cannot hold the people of Gaza hostage anymore.

Do you think this is going to make Gazans pro-Israel? They may kill Hamas, but they've solidified hatred of Israel in another generation.

I don’t think there is literally anything the Israelis can do, ever, to prevent hatred of Israel in another generation of Gazans. The Israelis could return all land and extend full voting rights and become minorities in Israel, and Gazans would still want them eliminated. Israel could 100% capitulate and they’d still face severe violence.

This is intellectual and political laziness. Complete and utter shamelessness.

Israelis and Germans are actually allies now. Germany supports Israel 100%. There is trade, travel, and wide discourse between the two countries despite the trauma of the war and the Holocaust. Why? Because Germans were forced to stop killing Jews. And the peace lasted for generations. Now, the trauma is for the most part behind them and they co-exist.

PPs statement refuses to recognize that dozens of countries have done that very thing despite wars. What we are dealing with here are intellectually lazy human beings who DO NOT want to change their ways or see humanity in others.

You are 100% wrong PP. Shame on you

A large portion of Germany would eliminate Jews again if they got a chance. Come on. I’ve lived in Europe for years.

I’m not Jewish, by the way. What I am is honest about the history of the world and Jews, and the pogroms they have suffered.