Looks like a new Gaza war has started

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Back to reality … IDF must have good intelligence assets now, with the quickening success it has been having with neutralizing important Hamas leaders. This may be displeasing to some people, who are rooting for “that team” against Israel, but it should not be: Hamas cannot hold the people of Gaza hostage anymore.

Do you think this is going to make Gazans pro-Israel? They may kill Hamas, but they've solidified hatred of Israel in another generation.

They have solidified hatred for Israel in another generation for an entire REGION, not just Gaza. It’s an endless cycle of hatred and violence. As an American I want off this ride.

Do you really not understand the the hatred exists no matter what Israel does?

It is Israel's mere existence that causes the hatred (with a hefty dose of religious intolerance as the cherry on the sundae).

JFC. You guys have to stop the perpetual victimization. It really is so counterproductive to any peace in the region. You cannot argue with the pro-Israel people because they justify murder with "well, my existence bothered him". No, Barbara, it was the fact that you killed his family. If you would stop that, he'd be cool.

Leave Maryland and meet other people. Make friends with Arabs. You will learn that they are humans - just like you - who want to live in peace. If you stop bombing them, they will be ok. It is YOUR hatred that exacerbates this.

So how do you explain the massacre of Jews by Palestinians before the state of Israel even existed?

How do you explain the Arab/Palestinian attempt to eradicate Israel on the day it was founded?

How do you explain the Hamas charter calling for the obliteration of Israel?

I grant you that there are thriving Christian and Jewish populations in many ME countries. I mean, you have ___________, and ____________, and _________________, and ______________. So we have to take those examples into account.

You're a moron. Lebanon was founded as a Christian country by the French. The population was 60/40 Christian to Muslim. Christians are thriving there and there are a lot of them. The president is a Maronite Christian. 10% of Egypt is Coptic. Our best friends are Christians from Jordan. And we are good friends with Lebanese Druze. Do you actually know ANYONE from an Arab country? Anyone at all?

And yes, the native ARabs were very angry on day 1 when they were kicked out of their houses, burned and murdered. It was a pretty disgusting display of violence during the Nakbah.

Ah, so you've just admitted that it's the existence of Israel that's the problem.

Though that doesn't quite explain the pre-Israel massacre of Jews in Hebron, does it?

Let me be very clear in saying that I know some delightful folks from Arab countries (Lebanon and Syria) and have nothing whatsoever against Palestinians or Arabs.

But by any objective measure, the region is intolerant and not pluralistic

Bringing up the Copts as an example of pluralism is RIDICULOUS. They are treated terribly.

Lebanon does have a pluralistic history, one that is under grave threat.

And you know one of the 7 Christians in Jordan (exaggerating for effect, but they make up 3% of the total population).

Ugh. It was the killing and murdering people to get them out of homes that was the problem. And continues to be the problem.
And stop with the Islamophobia already. I would not describe most of Israel as "tolerant and pluralistic" given the current government.
You really keep making things worse.

I don't know if any of the pro-Israel PPs who keep claiming generational suffering have ever met a Palestinian or any other Arabs from the region, or even follow any on X. I would really recommend that you try to hear their POV to see what it's like to live under bombings and oppression for so long. Read - https://twitter.com/iyad_elbaghdadi/status/1714985262873190512?s=42&t=CjYah8aRcPR-pKSS0zmNGA

It's long but I wonder if what he says will resonate?

"For 10 days we've been hearing openly genocidal statements fully supported and sometimes even endorsed by Western leaders, leaders who are supposed to stand up for "democracy", "human rights", etc. But not only for 10 days. This has been our entire lives. This has been 75 years....I also want to say that even in the deepest darkness of my anguish and my triggers I did not desire revenge. Not even a little bit. I didn't want anyone hurt to quench my pain. All I want in the moment was for our lives to be protected and our humanity to be acknowledged....Every friend I talk to is deeply triggered. For Palestinians the triggers are intergenerational. We grew up seeing our people getting blown up or humiliated or subjugated or shot or beaten. Our parents grew up with that. Our grandparents. All of our trauma is exploding."

Sound familiar?

I think you're misunderstanding many of the "pro-Israel" supporters' positions.

I have tremendous sympathy for the Palestinian people and their suffering.

I strongly support a 2-state solution.

I also think that the current situation is largely the result of the Palestinian leadership's actions over the last 75 years (though I also deplore the current Israeli government, the settlers, etc.).

It doesn’t matter what you support. The Israeli government has destroyed the possibility of a two state solution. There is no step state solution. Israel has made it clear it wants the West Bank without the people, but that is not an option. So it is choosing apartheid.

Nice try on moving the goalposts, but I'll play along.

Agree that the current Israeli government has made 2 states harder. But 1 state is never going to happen. It's even less feasible.

'Course none of this would be an issue if the Palestinian leadership hadn't thrown their state away in 1948.

I am not the poster you were talking to so I’m not moving the goalposts. I am pointing out the obvious- the two state solution is dead and Israel has chosen apartheid.

2 state solution is still more likely than 1 state, which is absolutely impossible.

Just out of curiousity, which of the following do you support:

1. 1 state solution
2. 2 state solution
3. Maintain the status quo
4. The elimination of the state of Israel?

[Anonymous]

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The numbers were always clearly exaggerated.

Can the media please stop repeating the overall fatality numbers provided by Hamas at face value? We can all agree that scores of civilians including children have been killed by Israel air strikes but the claim of thousands warrants scrutiny.

Was there a European "source" on the ground? Did a third-party conduct an investigation? Why does Israel and US not allow a third-party investigation? There was nothing more comical than the US State Department citing satellite imagery and open source media content as sources for their investigation and conclusions. My third grader can put together that investigation.

Yes, please have a UN investigation after the UN already showed its cards. Look. I get it. It didn’t go the way you wanted it to.

Which cards are those calling for humanitarian aid and a stop to mass displacement? Aren't those the western values you are defending against terrorists????

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Back to reality … IDF must have good intelligence assets now, with the quickening success it has been having with neutralizing important Hamas leaders. This may be displeasing to some people, who are rooting for “that team” against Israel, but it should not be: Hamas cannot hold the people of Gaza hostage anymore.

Do you think this is going to make Gazans pro-Israel? They may kill Hamas, but they've solidified hatred of Israel in another generation.

They have solidified hatred for Israel in another generation for an entire REGION, not just Gaza. It’s an endless cycle of hatred and violence. As an American I want off this ride.

Do you really not understand the the hatred exists no matter what Israel does?

It is Israel's mere existence that causes the hatred (with a hefty dose of religious intolerance as the cherry on the sundae).

JFC. You guys have to stop the perpetual victimization. It really is so counterproductive to any peace in the region. You cannot argue with the pro-Israel people because they justify murder with "well, my existence bothered him". No, Barbara, it was the fact that you killed his family. If you would stop that, he'd be cool.

Leave Maryland and meet other people. Make friends with Arabs. You will learn that they are humans - just like you - who want to live in peace. If you stop bombing them, they will be ok. It is YOUR hatred that exacerbates this.

So how do you explain the massacre of Jews by Palestinians before the state of Israel even existed?

How do you explain the Arab/Palestinian attempt to eradicate Israel on the day it was founded?

How do you explain the Hamas charter calling for the obliteration of Israel?

I grant you that there are thriving Christian and Jewish populations in many ME countries. I mean, you have ___________, and ____________, and _________________, and ______________. So we have to take those examples into account.

You're a moron. Lebanon was founded as a Christian country by the French. The population was 60/40 Christian to Muslim. Christians are thriving there and there are a lot of them. The president is a Maronite Christian. 10% of Egypt is Coptic. Our best friends are Christians from Jordan. And we are good friends with Lebanese Druze. Do you actually know ANYONE from an Arab country? Anyone at all?

And yes, the native ARabs were very angry on day 1 when they were kicked out of their houses, burned and murdered. It was a pretty disgusting display of violence during the Nakbah.

Ah, so you've just admitted that it's the existence of Israel that's the problem.

Though that doesn't quite explain the pre-Israel massacre of Jews in Hebron, does it?

Let me be very clear in saying that I know some delightful folks from Arab countries (Lebanon and Syria) and have nothing whatsoever against Palestinians or Arabs.

But by any objective measure, the region is intolerant and not pluralistic

Bringing up the Copts as an example of pluralism is RIDICULOUS. They are treated terribly.

Lebanon does have a pluralistic history, one that is under grave threat.

And you know one of the 7 Christians in Jordan (exaggerating for effect, but they make up 3% of the total population).

Ugh. It was the killing and murdering people to get them out of homes that was the problem. And continues to be the problem.
And stop with the Islamophobia already. I would not describe most of Israel as "tolerant and pluralistic" given the current government.
You really keep making things worse.

I don't know if any of the pro-Israel PPs who keep claiming generational suffering have ever met a Palestinian or any other Arabs from the region, or even follow any on X. I would really recommend that you try to hear their POV to see what it's like to live under bombings and oppression for so long. Read - https://twitter.com/iyad_elbaghdadi/status/1714985262873190512?s=42&t=CjYah8aRcPR-pKSS0zmNGA

It's long but I wonder if what he says will resonate?

"For 10 days we've been hearing openly genocidal statements fully supported and sometimes even endorsed by Western leaders, leaders who are supposed to stand up for "democracy", "human rights", etc. But not only for 10 days. This has been our entire lives. This has been 75 years....I also want to say that even in the deepest darkness of my anguish and my triggers I did not desire revenge. Not even a little bit. I didn't want anyone hurt to quench my pain. All I want in the moment was for our lives to be protected and our humanity to be acknowledged....Every friend I talk to is deeply triggered. For Palestinians the triggers are intergenerational. We grew up seeing our people getting blown up or humiliated or subjugated or shot or beaten. Our parents grew up with that. Our grandparents. All of our trauma is exploding."

Sound familiar?

I think you're misunderstanding many of the "pro-Israel" supporters' positions.

I have tremendous sympathy for the Palestinian people and their suffering.

I strongly support a 2-state solution.

I also think that the current situation is largely the result of the Palestinian leadership's actions over the last 75 years (though I also deplore the current Israeli government, the settlers, etc.).

It doesn’t matter what you support. The Israeli government has destroyed the possibility of a two state solution. There is no step state solution. Israel has made it clear it wants the West Bank without the people, but that is not an option. So it is choosing apartheid.

Are you 100% sure of this? I had no idea apartheid was being considered. What is your source? This is scary

Amnesty international
https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/campaigns/2022/02/israels-system-of-apartheid/
Human Rights Watch
https://www.hrw.org/report/2021/04/27/threshold-crossed/israeli-authorities-and-crimes-apartheid-and-persecution
The UN
https://news.un.org/en/story/2022/03/1114702

Is there any respected international organization who says that Israel isn't an apartheid country? Can you even point to 1?

Mandela even called it apartheid. But somehow these middle aged ladies living in their multi million dollar homes in Maryland having never experienced oppression or adversity in their lives know better than Mandela

[Anonymous]

Helpful to recall that Hamas is still launching missiles into Israel.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:America is just as much in fear of Israel as the Middle East countries are.

Nothing else could explain the double standards in treatment

Lol. Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East. The US wants israel to do the dirty work of keeping the peace in the region without a western country needing to constantly be at war or occupy some country in the region to prevent rampant anti western terrorism.

Israel is a democracy in name only . Netanyahu has been PM for years and years and years now. Longer than Putin or Erdogan have been in office.

Israel does no dirty work for us and they certainly don’t keep the peace. We do the dirty work for them.

The IDF prevents the us military from having to go in everywhere like they did with Iraq and Afghanistan. That’s no small feat.

I’m no supporter of Netanyahu, I’m anti settlement and pro two state solution. Plenty of moderates out there who support Israel’s right to exist alongside a Palestinian state, and see the mutually beneficial relationship our two countries have. I would love to see Netanyahu go and when the dust settles after this war, very possible he’ll be on the chopping block.

Where is everywhere? If we had a more balanced foreign policy and put Israel on check from time to time, we wouldn’t even get the ire and anger from the Middle East period.

Is there a way we can keep a friendship with Israel but also criticize Israel when they are wrong as Obama did once upon a time regarding settlements? Netanyahu backstabbed him to align with Putin who is now aligned with Hamas so I agree he needs to be on worse than a chopping block. He should be tried for corruption in Israeli court and jailed just like Trump should be jailed here

You have got to be kidding. The ME hates us because we have equal rights for women, lgbtq people are accepted, we are jewish, we don’t believe in public beheadings etc. Get a clue.

This statement is ridiculous. If the US didn't support dictators, murderers, and coups over and over again (Saddam, the Shah, Netanyahu, Sissi, and the list goes on) then maybe people would like them more.

Honestly people don't go around hating the US for what they do in their own country. They have their own lives to worry about. It's when the US goes and meddles in other countries, supports repressive regimes, and oh yeah, those two horrific wars that occurred in the past 20 years, kinda makes people sour on them.

Get a clue.

They hate you because you keep killing Palestinians.

If they went years without killing a Palestinian, Palestinians would still hate Jews and Israelis…and western values.

Israel has no western values. Nice try.
They are as barbaric as Hamas. And, yes they'd still hate you for stealing their land and oppressing millions of people.

Stop lying. My family members living in Tel Aviv can wear what they want, go to bars, practice their religion (not Judaism), and protest their government without getting killed. Can't say the same for surrounding countries.

These people have never been to Israel and they don’t care to learn anything about it.

Clearly. The ignorance is astounding.

Stop with your racism. I have been to the ME many times. I have worn what I want, gone to bars and practiced my religion. So yes, you can say the same for the surrounding countries. Tell me how many times you have been to Lebanon, Jordan, or Egypt? WTF do you actually know about the surrounding countries - outside of your smear campaign to dehumanize all Arabs?

I’ve been to Egypt many many times and basically have the freedom as a non-Muslim to do whatever I want. Not sure why you believe otherwise. Lebanon is known for a great party scene. It’s not like people don’t live and thrive in these countries, even if they are poor.

I'm responding to the woman who said - "My family members living in Tel Aviv can wear what they want, go to bars, practice their religion (not Judaism), and protest their government without getting killed. Can't say the same for surrounding countries." I may have quoted the wrong PP. But the idea that you cannot go to bars, wear what you want, and practice religion in Lebanon, Jordan and Egypt is complete BS based in racism and Islamophobia. I go to Lebanon with family. I dress far more conservatively than many of the women there.

Can you walk around those countries in Jewish Hasidic clothing or kippah? Can a young woman wear a bikini at the beach? Can she wear normal going-out clothes to a club? Can she kiss her girlfriend?

YES. Have you not been to the beaches in Lebanon? The clubs? There's also a really popular band in Lebanon with a gay singer who is open about his relationships. Go back to your hole.

You mean Lebanon, which recently banned LBTQ gatherings? Yeah, sounds really progressive: https://www.hrw.org/news/2022/07/04/lebanon-unlawful-crackdown-lgbti-gatherings

Or are you referring to the “harrowing” status of women’s rights in Lebanon?

https://arabcenterdc.org/resource/the-harrowing-state-of-womens-rights-in-lebanon/

Just because a Western tourist can wear a bathing suit on the beach doesn’t make Lebanon progressive.

You've never been. Lebanese women wear bathing suits all the time. This is not Iran. I cannot believe Nancy from Silver Spring is lecturing on the Middle East. What do you actually know? Tell me, have you been?
And please, Israel cannot lecture anyone on women's rights - particularly not after the news stories of young girls harassed and beaten for wearing immodest clothing by the ultra right community. https://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2016/11/16/501619916/womens-rights-become-a-battleground-for-israels-ultra-orthodox-jews

And tell me about all those progressive Orthodox communities in upstate NY. They're doing a world of good with those food stamps.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Back to reality … IDF must have good intelligence assets now, with the quickening success it has been having with neutralizing important Hamas leaders. This may be displeasing to some people, who are rooting for “that team” against Israel, but it should not be: Hamas cannot hold the people of Gaza hostage anymore.

Do you think this is going to make Gazans pro-Israel? They may kill Hamas, but they've solidified hatred of Israel in another generation.

They have solidified hatred for Israel in another generation for an entire REGION, not just Gaza. It’s an endless cycle of hatred and violence. As an American I want off this ride.

Do you really not understand the the hatred exists no matter what Israel does?

It is Israel's mere existence that causes the hatred (with a hefty dose of religious intolerance as the cherry on the sundae).

JFC. You guys have to stop the perpetual victimization. It really is so counterproductive to any peace in the region. You cannot argue with the pro-Israel people because they justify murder with "well, my existence bothered him". No, Barbara, it was the fact that you killed his family. If you would stop that, he'd be cool.

Leave Maryland and meet other people. Make friends with Arabs. You will learn that they are humans - just like you - who want to live in peace. If you stop bombing them, they will be ok. It is YOUR hatred that exacerbates this.

So how do you explain the massacre of Jews by Palestinians before the state of Israel even existed?

How do you explain the Arab/Palestinian attempt to eradicate Israel on the day it was founded?

How do you explain the Hamas charter calling for the obliteration of Israel?

I grant you that there are thriving Christian and Jewish populations in many ME countries. I mean, you have ___________, and ____________, and _________________, and ______________. So we have to take those examples into account.

You're a moron. Lebanon was founded as a Christian country by the French. The population was 60/40 Christian to Muslim. Christians are thriving there and there are a lot of them. The president is a Maronite Christian. 10% of Egypt is Coptic. Our best friends are Christians from Jordan. And we are good friends with Lebanese Druze. Do you actually know ANYONE from an Arab country? Anyone at all?

And yes, the native ARabs were very angry on day 1 when they were kicked out of their houses, burned and murdered. It was a pretty disgusting display of violence during the Nakbah.

Ah, so you've just admitted that it's the existence of Israel that's the problem.

Though that doesn't quite explain the pre-Israel massacre of Jews in Hebron, does it?

Let me be very clear in saying that I know some delightful folks from Arab countries (Lebanon and Syria) and have nothing whatsoever against Palestinians or Arabs.

But by any objective measure, the region is intolerant and not pluralistic

Bringing up the Copts as an example of pluralism is RIDICULOUS. They are treated terribly.

Lebanon does have a pluralistic history, one that is under grave threat.

And you know one of the 7 Christians in Jordan (exaggerating for effect, but they make up 3% of the total population).

This great scholar of Lebanese history conveniently forgot that the Lebanese 15 year civil war was started over ARMED Palestinian refugees and that Hezbollah is a product of Iran/Palestinian militia collaboration. She or he (the great scholar) also forgot to mention that the civil war was started because of how diverse the population was and because of how the demographics were changing. There was an exodus of 1 million Lebanese and that the Christian population was greatly reduced. Don’t try to see us Lebanon as an example of integrated ME country.

So are you saying that the chaos caused by Israel expelling Palestinians led to neighboring states experiencing demographic shifts and tension that eventually led to war and internal displacement of people?

Expelled or fled but 110,000 settled in Lebanon never receiving the same rights or citizenship and eventually, once PLO was
expelled from Jordan, PLO set up camp in Beirut. Eventually PLO controlled the southern part of Lebanon. And no, I am not saying the Chaos caused by Israel, this was in 1948. The chaos was caused by UN, the budding Israeli government, and the surrounding Arab states who saw the opportunity to grab some territory for themselves.

The proximate cause of the war was Israel expelling hundreds of thousands of Palestinians and forcing them into camps. PLO was chased from Palestine to Lebanon where Israel followed them with their army to continue the warfare. The fought the war on Lebanese soil and THIS was the direct cause of the Lebanese civil war. So yes, Israel has been named as a direct cause of th war by almost everyone who lives in the country.

DP. This is ridiculous.

Let's be clear about the history here: the Israeli authorities accepted resolution 181, the Palestinians/Arabs did not. This was the proximate cause of the war.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Back to reality … IDF must have good intelligence assets now, with the quickening success it has been having with neutralizing important Hamas leaders. This may be displeasing to some people, who are rooting for “that team” against Israel, but it should not be: Hamas cannot hold the people of Gaza hostage anymore.

Do you think this is going to make Gazans pro-Israel? They may kill Hamas, but they've solidified hatred of Israel in another generation.

They have solidified hatred for Israel in another generation for an entire REGION, not just Gaza. It’s an endless cycle of hatred and violence. As an American I want off this ride.

Do you really not understand the the hatred exists no matter what Israel does?

It is Israel's mere existence that causes the hatred (with a hefty dose of religious intolerance as the cherry on the sundae).

JFC. You guys have to stop the perpetual victimization. It really is so counterproductive to any peace in the region. You cannot argue with the pro-Israel people because they justify murder with "well, my existence bothered him". No, Barbara, it was the fact that you killed his family. If you would stop that, he'd be cool.

Leave Maryland and meet other people. Make friends with Arabs. You will learn that they are humans - just like you - who want to live in peace. If you stop bombing them, they will be ok. It is YOUR hatred that exacerbates this.

So how do you explain the massacre of Jews by Palestinians before the state of Israel even existed?

How do you explain the Arab/Palestinian attempt to eradicate Israel on the day it was founded?

How do you explain the Hamas charter calling for the obliteration of Israel?

I grant you that there are thriving Christian and Jewish populations in many ME countries. I mean, you have ___________, and ____________, and _________________, and ______________. So we have to take those examples into account.

You're a moron. Lebanon was founded as a Christian country by the French. The population was 60/40 Christian to Muslim. Christians are thriving there and there are a lot of them. The president is a Maronite Christian. 10% of Egypt is Coptic. Our best friends are Christians from Jordan. And we are good friends with Lebanese Druze. Do you actually know ANYONE from an Arab country? Anyone at all?

And yes, the native ARabs were very angry on day 1 when they were kicked out of their houses, burned and murdered. It was a pretty disgusting display of violence during the Nakbah.

Ah, so you've just admitted that it's the existence of Israel that's the problem.

Though that doesn't quite explain the pre-Israel massacre of Jews in Hebron, does it?

Let me be very clear in saying that I know some delightful folks from Arab countries (Lebanon and Syria) and have nothing whatsoever against Palestinians or Arabs.

But by any objective measure, the region is intolerant and not pluralistic

Bringing up the Copts as an example of pluralism is RIDICULOUS. They are treated terribly.

Lebanon does have a pluralistic history, one that is under grave threat.

And you know one of the 7 Christians in Jordan (exaggerating for effect, but they make up 3% of the total population).

Ugh. It was the killing and murdering people to get them out of homes that was the problem. And continues to be the problem.
And stop with the Islamophobia already. I would not describe most of Israel as "tolerant and pluralistic" given the current government.
You really keep making things worse.

I don't know if any of the pro-Israel PPs who keep claiming generational suffering have ever met a Palestinian or any other Arabs from the region, or even follow any on X. I would really recommend that you try to hear their POV to see what it's like to live under bombings and oppression for so long. Read - https://twitter.com/iyad_elbaghdadi/status/1714985262873190512?s=42&t=CjYah8aRcPR-pKSS0zmNGA

It's long but I wonder if what he says will resonate?

"For 10 days we've been hearing openly genocidal statements fully supported and sometimes even endorsed by Western leaders, leaders who are supposed to stand up for "democracy", "human rights", etc. But not only for 10 days. This has been our entire lives. This has been 75 years....I also want to say that even in the deepest darkness of my anguish and my triggers I did not desire revenge. Not even a little bit. I didn't want anyone hurt to quench my pain. All I want in the moment was for our lives to be protected and our humanity to be acknowledged....Every friend I talk to is deeply triggered. For Palestinians the triggers are intergenerational. We grew up seeing our people getting blown up or humiliated or subjugated or shot or beaten. Our parents grew up with that. Our grandparents. All of our trauma is exploding."

Sound familiar?

I think you're misunderstanding many of the "pro-Israel" supporters' positions.

I have tremendous sympathy for the Palestinian people and their suffering.

I strongly support a 2-state solution.

I also think that the current situation is largely the result of the Palestinian leadership's actions over the last 75 years (though I also deplore the current Israeli government, the settlers, etc.).

It doesn’t matter what you support. The Israeli government has destroyed the possibility of a two state solution. There is no step state solution. Israel has made it clear it wants the West Bank without the people, but that is not an option. So it is choosing apartheid.

Are you 100% sure of this? I had no idea apartheid was being considered. What is your source? This is scary

Amnesty international
https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/campaigns/2022/02/israels-system-of-apartheid/
Human Rights Watch
https://www.hrw.org/report/2021/04/27/threshold-crossed/israeli-authorities-and-crimes-apartheid-and-persecution
The UN
https://news.un.org/en/story/2022/03/1114702

Is there any respected international organization who says that Israel isn't an apartheid country? Can you even point to 1?

Mandela even called it apartheid. But somehow these middle aged ladies living in their multi million dollar homes in Maryland having never experienced oppression or adversity in their lives know better than Mandela

why do you keep repeating the line about “middle aged ladies ….” ?Seems pretty weird.

[Anonymous]

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Is that slogan a hate crime? Regardless, I can’t see how any Jewish student in that school would feel safe.

From the river to the sea is a call for Palestine to exist as a state from the Mediterranean Sea to the Jordan River. It’s a call for the eradication of Israel.

And before someone says it: I know Likud says similar things. But I don’t see tons of Jewish high schoolers marching through the halls chanting “from the river to the sea.”

Jewish high schoolers don’t need to. They have the full might of every western superpower doing it for them.

Try some empathy for what it must feel like, as a Jewish student, to hear that in a school.

Palestinian students get to hear the president of the united states praise the bombing of civilians

False.

$100 million in aid to refugees in Gaza, $100 billion in arms for Israel to drop on them

F-f-false. $10 billion to assist Israel in dismantling Gazans’ fascist overlords. But hey, that $100 billion includes money for Ukraine. If you want to root for Vlad too ….

Ask Bibi why he's BFF with Russia?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Back to reality … IDF must have good intelligence assets now, with the quickening success it has been having with neutralizing important Hamas leaders. This may be displeasing to some people, who are rooting for “that team” against Israel, but it should not be: Hamas cannot hold the people of Gaza hostage anymore.

Do you think this is going to make Gazans pro-Israel? They may kill Hamas, but they've solidified hatred of Israel in another generation.

They have solidified hatred for Israel in another generation for an entire REGION, not just Gaza. It’s an endless cycle of hatred and violence. As an American I want off this ride.

Do you really not understand the the hatred exists no matter what Israel does?

It is Israel's mere existence that causes the hatred (with a hefty dose of religious intolerance as the cherry on the sundae).

JFC. You guys have to stop the perpetual victimization. It really is so counterproductive to any peace in the region. You cannot argue with the pro-Israel people because they justify murder with "well, my existence bothered him". No, Barbara, it was the fact that you killed his family. If you would stop that, he'd be cool.

Leave Maryland and meet other people. Make friends with Arabs. You will learn that they are humans - just like you - who want to live in peace. If you stop bombing them, they will be ok. It is YOUR hatred that exacerbates this.

So how do you explain the massacre of Jews by Palestinians before the state of Israel even existed?

How do you explain the Arab/Palestinian attempt to eradicate Israel on the day it was founded?

How do you explain the Hamas charter calling for the obliteration of Israel?

I grant you that there are thriving Christian and Jewish populations in many ME countries. I mean, you have ___________, and ____________, and _________________, and ______________. So we have to take those examples into account.

You're a moron. Lebanon was founded as a Christian country by the French. The population was 60/40 Christian to Muslim. Christians are thriving there and there are a lot of them. The president is a Maronite Christian. 10% of Egypt is Coptic. Our best friends are Christians from Jordan. And we are good friends with Lebanese Druze. Do you actually know ANYONE from an Arab country? Anyone at all?

And yes, the native ARabs were very angry on day 1 when they were kicked out of their houses, burned and murdered. It was a pretty disgusting display of violence during the Nakbah.

Ah, so you've just admitted that it's the existence of Israel that's the problem.

Though that doesn't quite explain the pre-Israel massacre of Jews in Hebron, does it?

Let me be very clear in saying that I know some delightful folks from Arab countries (Lebanon and Syria) and have nothing whatsoever against Palestinians or Arabs.

But by any objective measure, the region is intolerant and not pluralistic

Bringing up the Copts as an example of pluralism is RIDICULOUS. They are treated terribly.

Lebanon does have a pluralistic history, one that is under grave threat.

And you know one of the 7 Christians in Jordan (exaggerating for effect, but they make up 3% of the total population).

Ugh. It was the killing and murdering people to get them out of homes that was the problem. And continues to be the problem.
And stop with the Islamophobia already. I would not describe most of Israel as "tolerant and pluralistic" given the current government.
You really keep making things worse.

I don't know if any of the pro-Israel PPs who keep claiming generational suffering have ever met a Palestinian or any other Arabs from the region, or even follow any on X. I would really recommend that you try to hear their POV to see what it's like to live under bombings and oppression for so long. Read - https://twitter.com/iyad_elbaghdadi/status/1714985262873190512?s=42&t=CjYah8aRcPR-pKSS0zmNGA

It's long but I wonder if what he says will resonate?

"For 10 days we've been hearing openly genocidal statements fully supported and sometimes even endorsed by Western leaders, leaders who are supposed to stand up for "democracy", "human rights", etc. But not only for 10 days. This has been our entire lives. This has been 75 years....I also want to say that even in the deepest darkness of my anguish and my triggers I did not desire revenge. Not even a little bit. I didn't want anyone hurt to quench my pain. All I want in the moment was for our lives to be protected and our humanity to be acknowledged....Every friend I talk to is deeply triggered. For Palestinians the triggers are intergenerational. We grew up seeing our people getting blown up or humiliated or subjugated or shot or beaten. Our parents grew up with that. Our grandparents. All of our trauma is exploding."

Sound familiar?

I think you're misunderstanding many of the "pro-Israel" supporters' positions.

I have tremendous sympathy for the Palestinian people and their suffering.

I strongly support a 2-state solution.

I also think that the current situation is largely the result of the Palestinian leadership's actions over the last 75 years (though I also deplore the current Israeli government, the settlers, etc.).

It doesn’t matter what you support. The Israeli government has destroyed the possibility of a two state solution. There is no step state solution. Israel has made it clear it wants the West Bank without the people, but that is not an option. So it is choosing apartheid.

Nice try on moving the goalposts, but I'll play along.

Agree that the current Israeli government has made 2 states harder. But 1 state is never going to happen. It's even less feasible.

'Course none of this would be an issue if the Palestinian leadership hadn't thrown their state away in 1948.

I am not the poster you were talking to so I’m not moving the goalposts. I am pointing out the obvious- the two state solution is dead and Israel has chosen apartheid.

2 state solution is still more likely than 1 state, which is absolutely impossible.

Just out of curiousity, which of the following do you support:

1. 1 state solution
2. 2 state solution
3. Maintain the status quo
4. The elimination of the state of Israel?

The realistic end result is that Israel slowly erodes the West Bank and continues the ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians there until it takes all the land. My only concern is my own country, the United States, which I do not want supporting Israel. I know this is impossible for you to imagine, but I don’t actually care what happens to Israel as a state. I care that innocent people appear to be dying left and right and that my country’s interference seems to be preventing a real solution. That’s all I care about.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

The numbers were always clearly exaggerated.

Can the media please stop repeating the overall fatality numbers provided by Hamas at face value? We can all agree that scores of civilians including children have been killed by Israel air strikes but the claim of thousands warrants scrutiny.

Was there a European "source" on the ground? Did a third-party conduct an investigation? Why does Israel and US not allow a third-party investigation? There was nothing more comical than the US State Department citing satellite imagery and open source media content as sources for their investigation and conclusions. My third grader can put together that investigation.

Yes, please have a UN investigation after the UN already showed its cards. Look. I get it. It didn’t go the way you wanted it to.

Which cards are those calling for humanitarian aid and a stop to mass displacement? Aren't those the western values you are defending against terrorists????

prejudging the blast as being done by Israel.
By the way, what seems to be undisputed is that these terrorist groups keep firing rockets near hospitals!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Incompetence.....

🤷

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Back to reality … IDF must have good intelligence assets now, with the quickening success it has been having with neutralizing important Hamas leaders. This may be displeasing to some people, who are rooting for “that team” against Israel, but it should not be: Hamas cannot hold the people of Gaza hostage anymore.

Do you think this is going to make Gazans pro-Israel? They may kill Hamas, but they've solidified hatred of Israel in another generation.

I don’t think there is literally anything the Israelis can do, ever, to prevent hatred of Israel in another generation of Gazans. The Israelis could return all land and extend full voting rights and become minorities in Israel, and Gazans would still want them eliminated. Israel could 100% capitulate and they’d still face severe violence.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Back to reality … IDF must have good intelligence assets now, with the quickening success it has been having with neutralizing important Hamas leaders. This may be displeasing to some people, who are rooting for “that team” against Israel, but it should not be: Hamas cannot hold the people of Gaza hostage anymore.

Do you think this is going to make Gazans pro-Israel? They may kill Hamas, but they've solidified hatred of Israel in another generation.

They have solidified hatred for Israel in another generation for an entire REGION, not just Gaza. It’s an endless cycle of hatred and violence. As an American I want off this ride.

Do you really not understand the the hatred exists no matter what Israel does?

It is Israel's mere existence that causes the hatred (with a hefty dose of religious intolerance as the cherry on the sundae).

JFC. You guys have to stop the perpetual victimization. It really is so counterproductive to any peace in the region. You cannot argue with the pro-Israel people because they justify murder with "well, my existence bothered him". No, Barbara, it was the fact that you killed his family. If you would stop that, he'd be cool.

Leave Maryland and meet other people. Make friends with Arabs. You will learn that they are humans - just like you - who want to live in peace. If you stop bombing them, they will be ok. It is YOUR hatred that exacerbates this.

So how do you explain the massacre of Jews by Palestinians before the state of Israel even existed?

How do you explain the Arab/Palestinian attempt to eradicate Israel on the day it was founded?

How do you explain the Hamas charter calling for the obliteration of Israel?

I grant you that there are thriving Christian and Jewish populations in many ME countries. I mean, you have ___________, and ____________, and _________________, and ______________. So we have to take those examples into account.

You're a moron. Lebanon was founded as a Christian country by the French. The population was 60/40 Christian to Muslim. Christians are thriving there and there are a lot of them. The president is a Maronite Christian. 10% of Egypt is Coptic. Our best friends are Christians from Jordan. And we are good friends with Lebanese Druze. Do you actually know ANYONE from an Arab country? Anyone at all?

And yes, the native ARabs were very angry on day 1 when they were kicked out of their houses, burned and murdered. It was a pretty disgusting display of violence during the Nakbah.

Ah, so you've just admitted that it's the existence of Israel that's the problem.

Though that doesn't quite explain the pre-Israel massacre of Jews in Hebron, does it?

Let me be very clear in saying that I know some delightful folks from Arab countries (Lebanon and Syria) and have nothing whatsoever against Palestinians or Arabs.

But by any objective measure, the region is intolerant and not pluralistic

Bringing up the Copts as an example of pluralism is RIDICULOUS. They are treated terribly.

Lebanon does have a pluralistic history, one that is under grave threat.

And you know one of the 7 Christians in Jordan (exaggerating for effect, but they make up 3% of the total population).

This great scholar of Lebanese history conveniently forgot that the Lebanese 15 year civil war was started over ARMED Palestinian refugees and that Hezbollah is a product of Iran/Palestinian militia collaboration. She or he (the great scholar) also forgot to mention that the civil war was started because of how diverse the population was and because of how the demographics were changing. There was an exodus of 1 million Lebanese and that the Christian population was greatly reduced. Don’t try to see us Lebanon as an example of integrated ME country.

So are you saying that the chaos caused by Israel expelling Palestinians led to neighboring states experiencing demographic shifts and tension that eventually led to war and internal displacement of people?

Expelled or fled but 110,000 settled in Lebanon never receiving the same rights or citizenship and eventually, once PLO was
expelled from Jordan, PLO set up camp in Beirut. Eventually PLO controlled the southern part of Lebanon. And no, I am not saying the Chaos caused by Israel, this was in 1948. The chaos was caused by UN, the budding Israeli government, and the surrounding Arab states who saw the opportunity to grab some territory for themselves.

The proximate cause of the war was Israel expelling hundreds of thousands of Palestinians and forcing them into camps. PLO was chased from Palestine to Lebanon where Israel followed them with their army to continue the warfare. The fought the war on Lebanese soil and THIS was the direct cause of the Lebanese civil war. So yes, Israel has been named as a direct cause of th war by almost everyone who lives in the country.

DP. This is ridiculous.

Let's be clear about the history here: the Israeli authorities accepted resolution 181, the Palestinians/Arabs did not. This was the proximate cause of the war.

Begin and his terrorists rejected it. They eventually became the IDF

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Back to reality … IDF must have good intelligence assets now, with the quickening success it has been having with neutralizing important Hamas leaders. This may be displeasing to some people, who are rooting for “that team” against Israel, but it should not be: Hamas cannot hold the people of Gaza hostage anymore.

Do you think this is going to make Gazans pro-Israel? They may kill Hamas, but they've solidified hatred of Israel in another generation.

They have solidified hatred for Israel in another generation for an entire REGION, not just Gaza. It’s an endless cycle of hatred and violence. As an American I want off this ride.

Do you really not understand the the hatred exists no matter what Israel does?

It is Israel's mere existence that causes the hatred (with a hefty dose of religious intolerance as the cherry on the sundae).

JFC. You guys have to stop the perpetual victimization. It really is so counterproductive to any peace in the region. You cannot argue with the pro-Israel people because they justify murder with "well, my existence bothered him". No, Barbara, it was the fact that you killed his family. If you would stop that, he'd be cool.

Leave Maryland and meet other people. Make friends with Arabs. You will learn that they are humans - just like you - who want to live in peace. If you stop bombing them, they will be ok. It is YOUR hatred that exacerbates this.

So how do you explain the massacre of Jews by Palestinians before the state of Israel even existed?

How do you explain the Arab/Palestinian attempt to eradicate Israel on the day it was founded?

How do you explain the Hamas charter calling for the obliteration of Israel?

I grant you that there are thriving Christian and Jewish populations in many ME countries. I mean, you have ___________, and ____________, and _________________, and ______________. So we have to take those examples into account.

You're a moron. Lebanon was founded as a Christian country by the French. The population was 60/40 Christian to Muslim. Christians are thriving there and there are a lot of them. The president is a Maronite Christian. 10% of Egypt is Coptic. Our best friends are Christians from Jordan. And we are good friends with Lebanese Druze. Do you actually know ANYONE from an Arab country? Anyone at all?

And yes, the native ARabs were very angry on day 1 when they were kicked out of their houses, burned and murdered. It was a pretty disgusting display of violence during the Nakbah.

Ah, so you've just admitted that it's the existence of Israel that's the problem.

Though that doesn't quite explain the pre-Israel massacre of Jews in Hebron, does it?

Let me be very clear in saying that I know some delightful folks from Arab countries (Lebanon and Syria) and have nothing whatsoever against Palestinians or Arabs.

But by any objective measure, the region is intolerant and not pluralistic

Bringing up the Copts as an example of pluralism is RIDICULOUS. They are treated terribly.

Lebanon does have a pluralistic history, one that is under grave threat.

And you know one of the 7 Christians in Jordan (exaggerating for effect, but they make up 3% of the total population).

Ugh. It was the killing and murdering people to get them out of homes that was the problem. And continues to be the problem.
And stop with the Islamophobia already. I would not describe most of Israel as "tolerant and pluralistic" given the current government.
You really keep making things worse.

I don't know if any of the pro-Israel PPs who keep claiming generational suffering have ever met a Palestinian or any other Arabs from the region, or even follow any on X. I would really recommend that you try to hear their POV to see what it's like to live under bombings and oppression for so long. Read - https://twitter.com/iyad_elbaghdadi/status/1714985262873190512?s=42&t=CjYah8aRcPR-pKSS0zmNGA

It's long but I wonder if what he says will resonate?

"For 10 days we've been hearing openly genocidal statements fully supported and sometimes even endorsed by Western leaders, leaders who are supposed to stand up for "democracy", "human rights", etc. But not only for 10 days. This has been our entire lives. This has been 75 years....I also want to say that even in the deepest darkness of my anguish and my triggers I did not desire revenge. Not even a little bit. I didn't want anyone hurt to quench my pain. All I want in the moment was for our lives to be protected and our humanity to be acknowledged....Every friend I talk to is deeply triggered. For Palestinians the triggers are intergenerational. We grew up seeing our people getting blown up or humiliated or subjugated or shot or beaten. Our parents grew up with that. Our grandparents. All of our trauma is exploding."

Sound familiar?

I think you're misunderstanding many of the "pro-Israel" supporters' positions.

I have tremendous sympathy for the Palestinian people and their suffering.

I strongly support a 2-state solution.

I also think that the current situation is largely the result of the Palestinian leadership's actions over the last 75 years (though I also deplore the current Israeli government, the settlers, etc.).

It doesn’t matter what you support. The Israeli government has destroyed the possibility of a two state solution. There is no step state solution. Israel has made it clear it wants the West Bank without the people, but that is not an option. So it is choosing apartheid.

Are you 100% sure of this? I had no idea apartheid was being considered. What is your source? This is scary

It's already an apartheid state, unless you think corralling 2 million people in a pen and restricting their rights is normal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Back to reality … IDF must have good intelligence assets now, with the quickening success it has been having with neutralizing important Hamas leaders. This may be displeasing to some people, who are rooting for “that team” against Israel, but it should not be: Hamas cannot hold the people of Gaza hostage anymore.

Do you think this is going to make Gazans pro-Israel? They may kill Hamas, but they've solidified hatred of Israel in another generation.

I don’t think there is literally anything the Israelis can do, ever, to prevent hatred of Israel in another generation of Gazans. The Israelis could return all land and extend full voting rights and become minorities in Israel, and Gazans would still want them eliminated. Israel could 100% capitulate and they’d still face severe violence.

Has Israel ever actually tried… not killing Palestinians? Like there’s this accusation flying about that Palestinians want all Israelis dead no matter what Israel does, but Israel has never actually tried the very basic… not killing Palestinians as a first step. Or at least to verify this claim.