Wizards and Caps could be moving to Potomac Yard

[Anonymous]

Warning: Alexandria hates cars and loves any initiative that in theory or name only will strong arm people into being frustrated with driving, give up and use scooters or bikes.

They love road diets, bike lanes, revamping traffic light signal timings, needlessly remove traffic circles, 15-25 mph limits, anything BOAC wants, closing certain streets, etc., all
in the name of “vision zero” and “safe streets”. It doesn’t matter if they actually work, and some examples have been around long enough to know if they’ve worked (how many people you see using the King Street bike lane) , they will stick by anything they have decided with sheer force of will and cram it down your throat.

I’ve lived here 20+ years and used to commute everyday on the metro. I walk to my destination whenever I can. I enjoy the environment, would love to get more cars off the road. But I haven’t found these theories of road diets force and manipulate driver behavior with psychological warfare with any positive results. None. People are married to Waze and their cars. It sucks but it’s reality. I can’t believe Wilson once again says they’re purposefully going to have almost zero parking to force people to find another way to get there. People will end up parking in Del Ray, maybe even Rosemont or Arlandria and walk.

I am really worried about this.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

lol. never thought I’d see the day but indeed. Nimby power, activate!

What’s more interesting is to see the YIMBYs against this. I would be careful making this a standard YIMBY/NIMBY issue.

But it is kind of amazing to watch the ALX YIMBYs get frazzled when it happens in THEIR backyard.

Having a few more neighbors is different than thousands of new people clogging up your streets and parking spaces.

Yes, I get that. It’s amazing how your views change when a proposal impacts your home and neighborhood.

If it’s not your BY then YIMBY/NIMBY is irrelevant.

Nope, not true. YIMBYs frequently tell NIMBYs that they have no say over what happens in their backyard.

Also YIMBY means yes in my backyard. Meaning you are a YES for it happening in your backyard.

They are a yes for it happening in their own backyard.

Except they are not in this case. I watched several fairly prolific or self-professed YIMBYs either express skepticism or outright objections to this proposal.

In other words, they were YIMBYs until it happened in their backyard. And the defense is that this isn’t something they signed up for - except isn’t that always the case with NIMBYs?

So my broader point is that it’s easy to be a YIMBY when the proposal does not impact you. Most people are actually NIMBYs under the right circumstances.

You can be a YIMBY to denser housing, mixed use development, more transit options, the new Virginia Tech campus….but still oppose an arena that’s going to bring in a massive amount of traffic on roads that are already too small for today.

YIMBYs don’t have to say “Yes” to every horrible idea.

Listen, our parking and roads are for everyone, per the city. Parking and traffic congestion on smaller roads are not an objection, as we learned during the zoning debate.

Also this proposal is theoretically likely to spurn denser housing (and maybe more contributions to our affordable housing fund), result in $200M for transit, and higher quality mixed use development.

You’re equating adding a few new neighbors with THOUSANDS of workers and spectators?

No, I am equating thousands of worker and spectators with thousands of neighbors. Were you not paying attention to the plans for PY?

Look, I am a NIMBY myself. I was against ZFH (or at least the SFH component) and I am against the arena. I am just sick and tired of hearing what terrible, racist people we are even though I am liberal Dem. So I am somewhat bemused to see so many YIMBYs get bent out of shape when it happens in their backyard. Maybe we can stop the name calling and acknowledge we all have our own personal breaking points.

“Thousands” of neighbors?

Yes. The redevelopment area left is 200 acres and high density housing is proposed. You don’t think thousands on neighbors is possible under that scenario?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I heard Mayor Wilson speak last night, and he said part of the agreement was to seriously limit parking (<4k spaces total), and likely zone all streets for quite a distance to be residential only. Not saying I trust the mayor, but as a nearby resident, that is the only thing that could get me on board. No one wants your giant 3-row SUV clogging up traffic and parking.

That's what's being reported

https://www.alxnow.com/2023/12/14/alexandria-mayor-potomac-yard-arena-will-have-minimal-parking-but-metro-station-currently-inadequate/

If that's true, then this whole thing is just postering to get DC to pony up or it's doomed to be a massive white elephant that will bankrupt Alexandria. This arena only works if it can attract Virginians in large enough numbers to offset the loss of Maryland and DC fans, but that's not going to happen if you expect them to take metro. All of the financing numbers are based on taxes from the Arena and new developments paying off the bonds, but if attendance is essentially nothing thanks to a lack of parking, that won't happen and Alexandria will be stuck making up the shortfall

4K spaces should be plenty, people with 3 row SUVs are certainly hauling 5 or more people right? If not, time to bring slugging back!

What about the “30k new jobs”?

They can park in one of these:

Joking aside, there are a lot of things from this video they could do to make PY work. Tunneled roads, ferries, connecting to the MVT, and such could alleviate a lot of the surface traffic worries. But it wouldn't be cheap.

Ferry? Uh, ya, how will people get from the water to the arena?

You walk from the marina that's less than 0.5 miles away if you build a bridge.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

lol. never thought I’d see the day but indeed. Nimby power, activate!

What’s more interesting is to see the YIMBYs against this. I would be careful making this a standard YIMBY/NIMBY issue.

But it is kind of amazing to watch the ALX YIMBYs get frazzled when it happens in THEIR backyard.

Having a few more neighbors is different than thousands of new people clogging up your streets and parking spaces.

Yes, I get that. It’s amazing how your views change when a proposal impacts your home and neighborhood.

If it’s not your BY then YIMBY/NIMBY is irrelevant.

Nope, not true. YIMBYs frequently tell NIMBYs that they have no say over what happens in their backyard.

Also YIMBY means yes in my backyard. Meaning you are a YES for it happening in your backyard.

They are a yes for it happening in their own backyard.

Except they are not in this case. I watched several fairly prolific or self-professed YIMBYs either express skepticism or outright objections to this proposal.

In other words, they were YIMBYs until it happened in their backyard. And the defense is that this isn’t something they signed up for - except isn’t that always the case with NIMBYs?

So my broader point is that it’s easy to be a YIMBY when the proposal does not impact you. Most people are actually NIMBYs under the right circumstances.

You can be a YIMBY to denser housing, mixed use development, more transit options, the new Virginia Tech campus….but still oppose an arena that’s going to bring in a massive amount of traffic on roads that are already too small for today.

YIMBYs don’t have to say “Yes” to every horrible idea.

Listen, our parking and roads are for everyone, per the city. Parking and traffic congestion on smaller roads are not an objection, as we learned during the zoning debate.

Also this proposal is theoretically likely to spurn denser housing (and maybe more contributions to our affordable housing fund), result in $200M for transit, and higher quality mixed use development.

You’re equating adding a few new neighbors with THOUSANDS of workers and spectators?

No, I am equating thousands of worker and spectators with thousands of neighbors. Were you not paying attention to the plans for PY?

Look, I am a NIMBY myself. I was against ZFH (or at least the SFH component) and I am against the arena. I am just sick and tired of hearing what terrible, racist people we are even though I am liberal Dem. So I am somewhat bemused to see so many YIMBYs get bent out of shape when it happens in their backyard. Maybe we can stop the name calling and acknowledge we all have our own personal breaking points.

“Thousands” of neighbors?

Yes. The redevelopment area left is 200 acres and high density housing is proposed. You don’t think thousands on neighbors is possible under that scenario?

Up to 1.775M SF of residential under the 2017 SAP. So probably more post pandemic.

So yes, thousands of neighbors.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I heard Mayor Wilson speak last night, and he said part of the agreement was to seriously limit parking (<4k spaces total), and likely zone all streets for quite a distance to be residential only. Not saying I trust the mayor, but as a nearby resident, that is the only thing that could get me on board. No one wants your giant 3-row SUV clogging up traffic and parking.

That's what's being reported

https://www.alxnow.com/2023/12/14/alexandria-mayor-potomac-yard-arena-will-have-minimal-parking-but-metro-station-currently-inadequate/

If that's true, then this whole thing is just postering to get DC to pony up or it's doomed to be a massive white elephant that will bankrupt Alexandria. This arena only works if it can attract Virginians in large enough numbers to offset the loss of Maryland and DC fans, but that's not going to happen if you expect them to take metro. All of the financing numbers are based on taxes from the Arena and new developments paying off the bonds, but if attendance is essentially nothing thanks to a lack of parking, that won't happen and Alexandria will be stuck making up the shortfall

4K spaces should be plenty, people with 3 row SUVs are certainly hauling 5 or more people right? If not, time to bring slugging back!

What about the “30k new jobs”?

They can park in one of these:

Joking aside, there are a lot of things from this video they could do to make PY work. Tunneled roads, ferries, connecting to the MVT, and such could alleviate a lot of the surface traffic worries. But it wouldn't be cheap.

Ferry? Uh, ya, how will people get from the water to the arena?

You walk from the marina that's less than 0.5 miles away if you build a bridge.

lol, you think NPS will allow that?

[Anonymous]

LOL. You all know Justin has 3 cars in his family and drives literally everywhere, right?

[Anonymous]

I hate Bowser so much for what she has done to our city that I hope the deal goes through. She's a complete failure and I would love to kick her when she's down. She has overseen the squander and ruin of the Nation's Capital. After nearly 30 decades, I can hardly wait to blow this joint.

[Anonymous]

The most pitiful rafters in professional sports

1 nba championship 50 years ago
1 nhl championship in 50 years

Mystics 1 year top attendance .


Good grief. Moribund.

Only thing worth watching is the one or two playoff games the capitals play.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As to Metro coverage, if one or two stops on the green line is sufficient for Nats Park and Audi Field, why do people believe that PY would be insufficient to handle crowds. I have not traversed the pedestrian bridge and that is one obvious choke point. Are there others?

As to PY, I recall the National Park Sevice being very protective of the views from the GW Parkway to the point that, from WMATA's view, the station placement is suboptimal. From what I've seen, the proposed stadium would be even more triggering of NPS's design veto. Is my recollection correct here? If so, has there been any questionin of/reaction from NPS?

Nats park is on the grid, so people can go via the bridge, S Cap to the highway or east on M Street or west on M Street to Rock Creek.
People can also bikeshare to other metro lines, and do.

Potomac Yards doesn't have easy access to other metro lines or other roads.

See the problem?

I don’t care about whether they move or not BUT things can change/improve just as they did around the old phone booth and Nats park. They’ll have to deal with the transportation issues that they are creating. I hated moving outside the beltway (I’m a city girl) but this kind of crap makes me less sad about our decision to move out here. Sorry.

This is a pretty big hurdle. I will be interested to see what the conjure up as a solution.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Warning: Alexandria hates cars and loves any initiative that in theory or name only will strong arm people into being frustrated with driving, give up and use scooters or bikes.

They love road diets, bike lanes, revamping traffic light signal timings, needlessly remove traffic circles, 15-25 mph limits, anything BOAC wants, closing certain streets, etc., all
in the name of “vision zero” and “safe streets”. It doesn’t matter if they actually work, and some examples have been around long enough to know if they’ve worked (how many people you see using the King Street bike lane) , they will stick by anything they have decided with sheer force of will and cram it down your throat.

I’ve lived here 20+ years and used to commute everyday on the metro. I walk to my destination whenever I can. I enjoy the environment, would love to get more cars off the road. But I haven’t found these theories of road diets force and manipulate driver behavior with psychological warfare with any positive results. None. People are married to Waze and their cars. It sucks but it’s reality. I can’t believe Wilson once again says they’re purposefully going to have almost zero parking to force people to find another way to get there. People will end up parking in Del Ray, maybe even Rosemont or Arlandria and walk.

I am really worried about this.

All of the tactics you cite are sound. But it requires a reliable public transportation system, which the governor opposes. It also requires that the public transportation infrastructure can handle any surge traffic. As currently configured, the Potomac Yards station cannot handle that load, nor can metro handle that surge. And apparently, there are design restrictions on the metro station that limits the ability for expansion. And, the National Park Service is highly unlikely to allow for any expansion or new ramps associated with the GW Parkway.

As a result, any "traffic solution" is going to have to be centered around Route 1, which is already a car sewer with limited options for capacity enhancements.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I hate Bowser so much for what she has done to our city that I hope the deal goes through. She's a complete failure and I would love to kick her when she's down. She has overseen the squander and ruin of the Nation's Capital. After nearly 30 decades, I can hardly wait to blow this joint.

This is dumb and spiteful. If you actually care about the District, you should be hoping that the DC government can somehow keep the teams in the city.

CapOne is clearly the best location from a transport perspective for the entire region. And its in need of a more comprehensive renovation. I don't care if Bowser or someone else gets the job done. We really can't lose these teams, given the moribund RTO status and lack of foot traffic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I heard Mayor Wilson speak last night, and he said part of the agreement was to seriously limit parking (<4k spaces total), and likely zone all streets for quite a distance to be residential only. Not saying I trust the mayor, but as a nearby resident, that is the only thing that could get me on board. No one wants your giant 3-row SUV clogging up traffic and parking.

That's what's being reported

https://www.alxnow.com/2023/12/14/alexandria-mayor-potomac-yard-arena-will-have-minimal-parking-but-metro-station-currently-inadequate/

If that's true, then this whole thing is just postering to get DC to pony up or it's doomed to be a massive white elephant that will bankrupt Alexandria. This arena only works if it can attract Virginians in large enough numbers to offset the loss of Maryland and DC fans, but that's not going to happen if you expect them to take metro. All of the financing numbers are based on taxes from the Arena and new developments paying off the bonds, but if attendance is essentially nothing thanks to a lack of parking, that won't happen and Alexandria will be stuck making up the shortfall

4K spaces should be plenty, people with 3 row SUVs are certainly hauling 5 or more people right? If not, time to bring slugging back!

What about the “30k new jobs”?

They can park in one of these:

Joking aside, there are a lot of things from this video they could do to make PY work. Tunneled roads, ferries, connecting to the MVT, and such could alleviate a lot of the surface traffic worries. But it wouldn't be cheap.

Ferry? Uh, ya, how will people get from the water to the arena?

You walk from the marina that's less than 0.5 miles away if you build a bridge.

And you think the National Park Service is going to allow a bridge there? Really?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:youngkin is going to have to pony up for Metro to even keep the PY station opened, much less allow for the kind of service necessary to make the arena remotely viable

Or he could tell metro he'll contribute even less if they close the station.

We just saw upthread that the proposal is to limit access to 4,000 cars. Good luck getting 20,000 people and all of the concession workers into the arena without metro.

I think on the call last night, Wilson said 3200 spaces. Whatever the number is, it would be less than the combined total of the current spaces in the strip mall added to the (past) movie theater spaces. Thus the "net loss."

Someone on Alxnow said this could be a fantastic opportunity for Alexandria to benefit from tow-sharks preying on those parking illegally. That would be a good revenue source!

I could have sworn on the call Wilson said there were 3700 parking spots currently, but that the development would only have 2500 spots, so significant reduction.

You're right. my numbers were totally botched! I rewatched the video (down below).

Current/past spots (shopping center + movie theater): 3,700
Planned spots for the Arena: 2,500 total spots

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:youngkin is going to have to pony up for Metro to even keep the PY station opened, much less allow for the kind of service necessary to make the arena remotely viable

Or he could tell metro he'll contribute even less if they close the station.

We just saw upthread that the proposal is to limit access to 4,000 cars. Good luck getting 20,000 people and all of the concession workers into the arena without metro.

I think on the call last night, Wilson said 3200 spaces. Whatever the number is, it would be less than the combined total of the current spaces in the strip mall added to the (past) movie theater spaces. Thus the "net loss."

Someone on Alxnow said this could be a fantastic opportunity for Alexandria to benefit from tow-sharks preying on those parking illegally. That would be a good revenue source!

It seems like a great way to ensure that local business die.

Utter nonsense. People coming to the arena will either take transit, or pay a premium for a rare spot.

And those local businesses that have their own parking, will be happy to not have arena-users illegally park in their lots.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Warning: Alexandria hates cars and loves any initiative that in theory or name only will strong arm people into being frustrated with driving, give up and use scooters or bikes.

They love road diets, bike lanes, revamping traffic light signal timings, needlessly remove traffic circles, 15-25 mph limits, anything BOAC wants, closing certain streets, etc., all
in the name of “vision zero” and “safe streets”. It doesn’t matter if they actually work, and some examples have been around long enough to know if they’ve worked (how many people you see using the King Street bike lane) , they will stick by anything they have decided with sheer force of will and cram it down your throat.

I’ve lived here 20+ years and used to commute everyday on the metro. I walk to my destination whenever I can. I enjoy the environment, would love to get more cars off the road. But I haven’t found these theories of road diets force and manipulate driver behavior with psychological warfare with any positive results. None. People are married to Waze and their cars. It sucks but it’s reality. I can’t believe Wilson once again says they’re purposefully going to have almost zero parking to force people to find another way to get there. People will end up parking in Del Ray, maybe even Rosemont or Arlandria and walk.

I am really worried about this.

Please contact a therapist for your mental health state.