New OPM memo on RTO

[Anonymous]

I don't know that I would say I "earned" telework. That's not an important framing for me. What I would say is that I made decisions based on being offered a fully remote job and that I would have made different decisions had I been told it instead would come with a significant commute. And that if we more time to figure out our lives or find new jobs instead of "find more after school child care next week!", this would seem a lot more reasonable and less like the cruelty was the point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because people need to wake up and understand how privileged they are. And stop whining.

Privilege implies we didn’t earn it. Which we did.

You didn’t earn it any more than I earned it as someone in private equity who has RTO’d or more than my husband who works at Goldman and is RTO 5 days has earned it. There is a near hysterical level of entitlement on this thread. And your attitude is horrible and elitist, like you’re better than every doctor, pharmacist, uber driver, lawyer, banker, teacher, firefighter, scientist, or professor who didn’t “earn it.”

Did you or your husband telework before Covid? I think feds would be okay with returning to pre-COVID telework, which was 1-2 days per week in my office. But Trumps EO is taking telework policy back 20+ years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes. This is correct. Right now (three days a week and my husband the other 2) get kiddo off bus at 4:15. We won’t be able to do that so $700 per month to get after. So yes, I’m crying.

This implies that you were providing childcare instead of working during those times, part of what RTO is meant to address?

New poster here. For f&#k's sake. Let me spell it out for you like a child. I WFH from 7:30 to 4:00. That is a full work day. No child is in the house. I can quickly go pick my child up from school at 4:15 because it's just around the corner. When I go back to work, I will be an hour away at 4:15 and will not be able to pick up my child from school. Thereby requiring expensive after care.

Just work from 6:30 to 3:00. Problem solved.

And have a little empathy for those of us who have NEVER had the luxury of popping out to pick our kids up from school because we had jobs that require us to do their job in person. Be grateful you had this privilege for as long as you did. I understand feeling sideswiped by this and do think the government should give more people time to adjust but then you have to suck it up.

The bait and switch and no time to adjust *is* the issue here. I'm very glad I've been able to telework for years, which was mostly not as a fed. But this wasn't a favor my employers were giving me, it was a way of hiring people with my skill set. This is the equivalent of a significant pay cut for me -- would you feel gratitude at previously outearning other people if you took a job due to the pay and then they cut it?

Exactly. Telework is the only reason a lot of us chose the jobs we chose. I have a highly desirable skill set. Nothing is keeping me in the federal government now, and I'm not the only one. Pretty sure you're going to be left with people who have zero skills and it will all come to a screeching halt. But this is what MAGA wants.

Right. There are people with in demand skills and who are highly qualified. I was offered other jobs that paid significantly more and chose a fed job with better telework. Telework was the single deciding factor. Now I really wish I had taken the higher paying jobs and am going to go back and try to see if those options are out there still.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because people need to wake up and understand how privileged they are. And stop whining.

Privilege implies we didn’t earn it. Which we did.

You didn’t earn it any more than I earned it as someone in private equity who has RTO’d or more than my husband who works at Goldman and is RTO 5 days has earned it. There is a near hysterical level of entitlement on this thread. And your attitude is horrible and elitist, like you’re better than every doctor, pharmacist, uber driver, lawyer, banker, teacher, firefighter, scientist, or professor who didn’t “earn it.”

You and your husband's jobs sound like they would be nicely compensated for all of your RTO troubles. Feds often accepted less pay for more flexibility like telework. We are now left holding the bag with uncompetitive pay and no flexibility. Doesn't sound like a winning combination for government stakeholders ie the public.

Did you read the above in its entirety? Nurses, hairdressers, teachers, physical therapists and police officers all work
in person, and they all earn less than the average Fed. Did they also not earn it?

Cool comparison of apples to oranges. You’re doing great, keep it up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because people need to wake up and understand how privileged they are. And stop whining.

Privilege implies we didn’t earn it. Which we did.

You didn’t earn it any more than I earned it as someone in private equity who has RTO’d or more than my husband who works at Goldman and is RTO 5 days has earned it. There is a near hysterical level of entitlement on this thread. And your attitude is horrible and elitist, like you’re better than every doctor, pharmacist, uber driver, lawyer, banker, teacher, firefighter, scientist, or professor who didn’t “earn it.”

You and your husband's jobs sound like they would be nicely compensated for all of your RTO troubles. Feds often accepted less pay for more flexibility like telework. We are now left holding the bag with uncompetitive pay and no flexibility. Doesn't sound like a winning combination for government stakeholders ie the public.

Did you read the above in its entirety? Nurses, hairdressers, teachers, physical therapists and police officers all work
in person, and they all earn less than the average Fed. Did they also not earn it?

Those people do jobs that require person to person. Mine requires sitting at my desk and writing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes. This is correct. Right now (three days a week and my husband the other 2) get kiddo off bus at 4:15. We won’t be able to do that so $700 per month to get after. So yes, I’m crying.

This implies that you were providing childcare instead of working during those times, part of what RTO is meant to address?

New poster here. For f&#k's sake. Let me spell it out for you like a child. I WFH from 7:30 to 4:00. That is a full work day. No child is in the house. I can quickly go pick my child up from school at 4:15 because it's just around the corner. When I go back to work, I will be an hour away at 4:15 and will not be able to pick up my child from school. Thereby requiring expensive after care.

Just work from 6:30 to 3:00. Problem solved.

And have a little empathy for those of us who have NEVER had the luxury of popping out to pick our kids up from school because we had jobs that require us to do their job in person. Be grateful you had this privilege for as long as you did. I understand feeling sideswiped by this and do think the government should give more people time to adjust but then you have to suck it up.

I'm a federal government worker with kids who has to agree with this poster. The fact is, covid presented a truly unique opportunity for flexible working arrangements. It changed the way we all lived. Our family got 5 years with being able to be able to pick up our kids from school etc. It was truly lovely. I will miss it, but appreciated it. I will change the way we live to try to maintain as much of being present as is possible (I'll drop CWS 9 hour days etc.).

I really didn't realize how much the private sector resented the amount of flexibility us feds have had. Yes, some of them did have it as well, but the fact remains, we are held to different standards being a government employee. So it pains me to say that it's time that we stop complaining. Hopefully, in time, maybe a day or two of teleworking will be allowed.

Hear, hear!

[Anonymous]

I can’t believe people thought working from home full-time would continue indefinitely.

We knew this would happen at some point, especially if a GOP President was elected. It wasn’t just Trump, DeSantis said he’d do the same.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't know that I would say I "earned" telework. That's not an important framing for me. What I would say is that I made decisions based on being offered a fully remote job and that I would have made different decisions had I been told it instead would come with a significant commute. And that if we more time to figure out our lives or find new jobs instead of "find more after school child care next week!", this would seem a lot more reasonable and less like the cruelty was the point.

Yes. Exactly. It was an explicit term of my employment that I made life decisions around. (My job was advertised "remote, anywhere in the US." I never had a desk in DC.)

It's not cool when private companies ask remote employees to completely change their lives either. Sure it's legal, but I still sympathize when this happens to people in the private sector too!

Grateful that my agency is giving us a bit of an on ramp instead of immediate. It's still going to be really tough, but there are more and less cruel ways to do it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes. This is correct. Right now (three days a week and my husband the other 2) get kiddo off bus at 4:15. We won’t be able to do that so $700 per month to get after. So yes, I’m crying.

This implies that you were providing childcare instead of working during those times, part of what RTO is meant to address?

New poster here. For f&#k's sake. Let me spell it out for you like a child. I WFH from 7:30 to 4:00. That is a full work day. No child is in the house. I can quickly go pick my child up from school at 4:15 because it's just around the corner. When I go back to work, I will be an hour away at 4:15 and will not be able to pick up my child from school. Thereby requiring expensive after care.

Just work from 6:30 to 3:00. Problem solved.

And have a little empathy for those of us who have NEVER had the luxury of popping out to pick our kids up from school because we had jobs that require us to do their job in person. Be grateful you had this privilege for as long as you did. I understand feeling sideswiped by this and do think the government should give more people time to adjust but then you have to suck it up.

I'm a federal government worker with kids who has to agree with this poster. The fact is, covid presented a truly unique opportunity for flexible working arrangements. It changed the way we all lived. Our family got 5 years with being able to be able to pick up our kids from school etc. It was truly lovely. I will miss it, but appreciated it. I will change the way we live to try to maintain as much of being present as is possible (I'll drop CWS 9 hour days etc.).

I really didn't realize how much the private sector resented the amount of flexibility us feds have had. Yes, some of them did have it as well, but the fact remains, we are held to different standards being a government employee. So it pains me to say that it's time that we stop complaining. Hopefully, in time, maybe a day or two of teleworking will be allowed.

No I think it’s just the trump zombies want to “own the libs” and since trump can’t actually improve their lives, he is going after Feds. Most people would be smart enough to see through this but we are talking about the Trump Cult. They should be asking how this will help them. My grocery bills are just going up.

+1

The federal government isn’t unique in having telework and flex schedules. It’s that generally the most flexible, telework-friendly jobs are knowledge jobs requiring higher education (often beyond even just a college degree).

So you have MAGA factory workers and whatnot feeling jealous that a government lawyer gets to write legal briefs at home. God forbid Trump actually do anything to improve their life (supporting union protections, increasing wages, affordable childcare, etc.). No, it’s SO much better to just own the libs by making a bunch of government workers commute 5 days/week to write that brief in a cubicle in some dumpy building that likely has mold or rodents or other issues. Yay, what a win for America.

And they’ll stick their heads in the sand about the myriad private sector workers who also have flexibility like telework in addition to higher salaries because the Trump agenda hasn’t dared to go after high wage private sector jobs.

Feds are the easiest punching bag for the disgruntled MAGAs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I can’t believe people thought working from home full-time would continue indefinitely.

We knew this would happen at some point, especially if a GOP President was elected. It wasn’t just Trump, DeSantis said he’d do the same.

Those of us who have teleworked for a decade + and don’t even have an office to go to did not see full time in office coming. I can’t even call it “return to office” for me because I’m not going to be returning. I will be going to some place as yet to be determined that I’ve never been to before for more in office days than I’ve ever had in my entire government career.

So yeah I’m a little bitter that I was hired under certain circumstances that I planned my life around (e.g. a short commute the days that I did go in) and then that office no longer exists and I’m supposed to just what? Completely upend my life because some MAGAs are jealous? So Herr Musk can get himself off running a fake government agency?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes. This is correct. Right now (three days a week and my husband the other 2) get kiddo off bus at 4:15. We won’t be able to do that so $700 per month to get after. So yes, I’m crying.

This implies that you were providing childcare instead of working during those times, part of what RTO is meant to address?

New poster here. For f&#k's sake. Let me spell it out for you like a child. I WFH from 7:30 to 4:00. That is a full work day. No child is in the house. I can quickly go pick my child up from school at 4:15 because it's just around the corner. When I go back to work, I will be an hour away at 4:15 and will not be able to pick up my child from school. Thereby requiring expensive after care.

Just work from 6:30 to 3:00. Problem solved.

And have a little empathy for those of us who have NEVER had the luxury of popping out to pick our kids up from school because we had jobs that require us to do their job in person. Be grateful you had this privilege for as long as you did. I understand feeling sideswiped by this and do think the government should give more people time to adjust but then you have to suck it up.

The bait and switch and no time to adjust *is* the issue here. I'm very glad I've been able to telework for years, which was mostly not as a fed. But this wasn't a favor my employers were giving me, it was a way of hiring people with my skill set. This is the equivalent of a significant pay cut for me -- would you feel gratitude at previously outearning other people if you took a job due to the pay and then they cut it?

Exactly. Telework is the only reason a lot of us chose the jobs we chose. I have a highly desirable skill set. Nothing is keeping me in the federal government now, and I'm not the only one. Pretty sure you're going to be left with people who have zero skills and it will all come to a screeching halt. But this is what MAGA wants.

Right. There are people with in demand skills and who are highly qualified. I was offered other jobs that paid significantly more and chose a fed job with better telework. Telework was the single deciding factor. Now I really wish I had taken the higher paying jobs and am going to go back and try to see if those options are out there still.

+ 1

To the people claiming it’s privilege or entitlement to work from home … why do people not say the same thing about salary? Obviously telework is part of the compensation package.

It’s no more privileged to want to continue with the telework conditions I was hired with more than a decade ago than it is to expect that my salary not just be lowered. How many people would just shrug and be totally cool if their employer started cutting their income and benefits because it’s not fair that other people in entirely different positions in an entirely different sector make less than them.

They call us commies while trying to argue some people shouldn’t get to work from home because other people can’t.

[Anonymous]

Also the “I had to pay for aftercare so you should have to as well” poster(s) are so dumb.

Why not make everyone produce their work on a typewriter while you’re at it?

[Anonymous]

If Trump can work at Mar-a-Lago, I can work from my cul-de-sac.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes. This is correct. Right now (three days a week and my husband the other 2) get kiddo off bus at 4:15. We won’t be able to do that so $700 per month to get after. So yes, I’m crying.

This implies that you were providing childcare instead of working during those times, part of what RTO is meant to address?

New poster here. For f&#k's sake. Let me spell it out for you like a child. I WFH from 7:30 to 4:00. That is a full work day. No child is in the house. I can quickly go pick my child up from school at 4:15 because it's just around the corner. When I go back to work, I will be an hour away at 4:15 and will not be able to pick up my child from school. Thereby requiring expensive after care.

Just work from 6:30 to 3:00. Problem solved.

And have a little empathy for those of us who have NEVER had the luxury of popping out to pick our kids up from school because we had jobs that require us to do their job in person. Be grateful you had this privilege for as long as you did. I understand feeling sideswiped by this and do think the government should give more people time to adjust but then you have to suck it up.

The bait and switch and no time to adjust *is* the issue here. I'm very glad I've been able to telework for years, which was mostly not as a fed. But this wasn't a favor my employers were giving me, it was a way of hiring people with my skill set. This is the equivalent of a significant pay cut for me -- would you feel gratitude at previously outearning other people if you took a job due to the pay and then they cut it?

Exactly. Telework is the only reason a lot of us chose the jobs we chose. I have a highly desirable skill set. Nothing is keeping me in the federal government now, and I'm not the only one. Pretty sure you're going to be left with people who have zero skills and it will all come to a screeching halt. But this is what MAGA wants.

Right. There are people with in demand skills and who are highly qualified. I was offered other jobs that paid significantly more and chose a fed job with better telework. Telework was the single deciding factor. Now I really wish I had taken the higher paying jobs and am going to go back and try to see if those options are out there still.

+ 1

To the people claiming it’s privilege or entitlement to work from home … why do people not say the same thing about salary? Obviously telework is part of the compensation package.

It’s no more privileged to want to continue with the telework conditions I was hired with more than a decade ago than it is to expect that my salary not just be lowered. How many people would just shrug and be totally cool if their employer started cutting their income and benefits because it’s not fair that other people in entirely different positions in an entirely different sector make less than them.

They call us commies while trying to argue some people shouldn’t get to work from home because other people can’t.

This is a fair counterpoint. Telework is a privilege? Well so is your salary and benefits. Your job can cut them with the snap of a finger without any justification other than “because I say so”. If your reaction to that is “find a new job” then you are part of the problem. I say this as a former federal government leader and current business owner with over 80 employees in the tri-state.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes. This is correct. Right now (three days a week and my husband the other 2) get kiddo off bus at 4:15. We won’t be able to do that so $700 per month to get after. So yes, I’m crying.

This implies that you were providing childcare instead of working during those times, part of what RTO is meant to address?

New poster here. For f&#k's sake. Let me spell it out for you like a child. I WFH from 7:30 to 4:00. That is a full work day. No child is in the house. I can quickly go pick my child up from school at 4:15 because it's just around the corner. When I go back to work, I will be an hour away at 4:15 and will not be able to pick up my child from school. Thereby requiring expensive after care.

Just work from 6:30 to 3:00. Problem solved.

And have a little empathy for those of us who have NEVER had the luxury of popping out to pick our kids up from school because we had jobs that require us to do their job in person. Be grateful you had this privilege for as long as you did. I understand feeling sideswiped by this and do think the government should give more people time to adjust but then you have to suck it up.

I'm a federal government worker with kids who has to agree with this poster. The fact is, covid presented a truly unique opportunity for flexible working arrangements. It changed the way we all lived. Our family got 5 years with being able to be able to pick up our kids from school etc. It was truly lovely. I will miss it, but appreciated it. I will change the way we live to try to maintain as much of being present as is possible (I'll drop CWS 9 hour days etc.).

I really didn't realize how much the private sector resented the amount of flexibility us feds have had. Yes, some of them did have it as well, but the fact remains, we are held to different standards being a government employee. So it pains me to say that it's time that we stop complaining. Hopefully, in time, maybe a day or two of teleworking will be allowed.

My friends and family who work in private sector, telework-eligible jobs still have the option to telework or work remotely. In fact a few of their companies shut their offices during covid and moved to 100% remote, expanding their candidate pool and reducing costs. Where are all these private sector jobs who lost the ability to telework? People keep pointing to jobs not eligible for telework like doctors or restaurant works.

MOST jobs do not have telework. You act like we are scraping the barrel to think of other examples. The list is very very very long. Teachers. Construction workers. Drivers of trucks and planes and boats and buses. Delivery people. Grocery store clerks. Front desk hotel workers. Factory and assembly workers. Construction. Cleaning people. Mail and package delivery. Scientists in labs and research companies. Professors. All the people who work at your kids school. All the people at the hospitals and medical offices. Police and fire department employees. Lots and lots and lots of people work 8 hours or more very single day away from their homes. Jeez!!!!

most white collar jobs have some amount of telework.