The White Lotus season 2

Anonymous
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Anonymous wrote:I don’t understand people who stan Daphne. Her marriage is a horrible shit show. Getting knocked up by your trainer and passing it off as your husband’s is not some cool power play. If she ever gets found out, she’d ruin that kid’s life.


OMG is that why she showed Harper the picture of the kids rather than the trainer?


I don’t think so. She talked about the trainer to make herself out as not being a victim. She may or may not have a trainer she sleeps with, but at the end of the day, it’s her kids who give her the motivation to get over whatever Cameron does and not focus on it.


Eh, she says my trainer has blond hair and blue eyes, want to see a picture? Then shows a picture of a blond haired kid. Cameron has brown hair. Google it.

https://www.today.com/popculture/tv/white-lotus-season-2-daphne-trainer-kids-theory-rcna59147


She’s calling the kid her trainer. She’s making some innuendo about her life, that she’s not a victim because she can do whatever Cameron is doing and have sex with whomever she wants. She makes that point to Harper. Then when she shows her the picture, it’s her kids- the point is that she doesn’t want to cheat, that’s not what actually makes her feel better about it. She just wants her happy, very comfortable life with her kids and her husband. People are reading way into this. Her trainer did not father her children.

Also, even if Cameron had brown eyes, hasn’t anyone ever heard of recessive genes? My dad has blue eyes and my mom has brown. I’m one of four kids and only one of us have brown eyes. The rest of us have blue and green.


I think you and I are the only ones that see this in this thread. I tack it up to personal life experience and age. Sigh.


I'm the one that 100% think Daphne is banging her trainer - I'm 51 and have been married for 21 years. We can agree to disagree. I re-watched that scene and I don't think she's calling her kid her trainer (a really weird thing to say). She's warning Harper to stay out of it for sure, but she's not making up some weird story here.

She is alluding to an affair she’s not having because the absolute worst think in Daphne’s mind is for anyone (including herself!) to think she’s a victim. She could cheat if she wanted to, but she doesn’t. She was very out of it when she threw the phone over to Harper. And that is because she was forced to face the idea Cameron cheated on her again, even in paradise.
Anonymous
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Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:What is up with Isabella that she doesn’t seem to realize what is up with Valentina. Does she not understand the guy is flirting with her, either? Is she very dim or is she ignoring sexual overatures on purpose?


Also curious about this. She was clearly not annoyed by Rocco so she either likes him back or maybe he’s gay? I think she likely aware of Valentina’s feelings but appears to be feigning ignorance to maintain a level of professionalism and because she isn’t interested? Unsure


She is clueless. She likes Rocco.


She definitely likes Rocco. I'm not so sure she's clueless about Valentina, but she definitely doesn't know what to do about it. And can we talk about Valentina? I don't mean to be offensive, but she comes across as possibly slightly on the spectrum (?) or something. What concierge/manager of a 5 star hotel doesn't know any jewelry stores to recommend? She then buys a brooch (which HBO is labeling "broach" in the subtitles! A dictionary, I beg of you) for a very junior co-worker and gives it to her in a totally awkward way and keeps on even when her feelings are clearly not returned. She's very off.


Yeah I don't view Isabella's response to Valentina's overture as "clueless". I think she knows exactly what Valentina is doing/thinking and is choosing to play dumb because it's the easiest way to reject Valentina without actually having to turn her down. Just smile and and nod. I've done this many times in a work environment, usually with some older man who takes a too friendly interest in me that could maaaaybe be him seeing me as a daughter but probably not. The goal is to not embarrass your boss but calling them out on what they are doing.

However, I think Isabella is annoyed and weirded out by the decision to move Rocco and I think if Valentina pushes too far, Isabella might decide to complain. And since Valenina, like Armand, is technically the boss but doesn't really have true power, she'll lose her job.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I don’t understand people who stan Daphne. Her marriage is a horrible shit show. Getting knocked up by your trainer and passing it off as your husband’s is not some cool power play. If she ever gets found out, she’d ruin that kid’s life.


OMG is that why she showed Harper the picture of the kids rather than the trainer?


I don’t think so. She talked about the trainer to make herself out as not being a victim. She may or may not have a trainer she sleeps with, but at the end of the day, it’s her kids who give her the motivation to get over whatever Cameron does and not focus on it.


Eh, she says my trainer has blond hair and blue eyes, want to see a picture? Then shows a picture of a blond haired kid. Cameron has brown hair. Google it.

https://www.today.com/popculture/tv/white-lotus-season-2-daphne-trainer-kids-theory-rcna59147


She’s calling the kid her trainer. She’s making some innuendo about her life, that she’s not a victim because she can do whatever Cameron is doing and have sex with whomever she wants. She makes that point to Harper. Then when she shows her the picture, it’s her kids- the point is that she doesn’t want to cheat, that’s not what actually makes her feel better about it. She just wants her happy, very comfortable life with her kids and her husband. People are reading way into this. Her trainer did not father her children.

Also, even if Cameron had brown eyes, hasn’t anyone ever heard of recessive genes? My dad has blue eyes and my mom has brown. I’m one of four kids and only one of us have brown eyes. The rest of us have blue and green.


I think you and I are the only ones that see this in this thread. I tack it up to personal life experience and age. Sigh.


I'm the one that 100% think Daphne is banging her trainer - I'm 51 and have been married for 21 years. We can agree to disagree. I re-watched that scene and I don't think she's calling her kid her trainer (a really weird thing to say). She's warning Harper to stay out of it for sure, but she's not making up some weird story here.

She is alluding to an affair she’s not having because the absolute worst think in Daphne’s mind is for anyone (including herself!) to think she’s a victim. She could cheat if she wanted to, but she doesn’t. She was very out of it when she threw the phone over to Harper. And that is because she was forced to face the idea Cameron cheated on her again, even in paradise.


Unless Ethan tells Cameron his kid is the trainer’s out of anger in a fight after Harper tells him (whether the kid really is his or not) …and that’s enough for somebody to kill…be it Daphne or Cameron …who knows.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:What is up with Isabella that she doesn’t seem to realize what is up with Valentina. Does she not understand the guy is flirting with her, either? Is she very dim or is she ignoring sexual overatures on purpose?


Also curious about this. She was clearly not annoyed by Rocco so she either likes him back or maybe he’s gay? I think she likely aware of Valentina’s feelings but appears to be feigning ignorance to maintain a level of professionalism and because she isn’t interested? Unsure


She is clueless. She likes Rocco.


She definitely likes Rocco. I'm not so sure she's clueless about Valentina, but she definitely doesn't know what to do about it. And can we talk about Valentina? I don't mean to be offensive, but she comes across as possibly slightly on the spectrum (?) or something. What concierge/manager of a 5 star hotel doesn't know any jewelry stores to recommend? She then buys a brooch (which HBO is labeling "broach" in the subtitles! A dictionary, I beg of you) for a very junior co-worker and gives it to her in a totally awkward way and keeps on even when her feelings are clearly not returned. She's very off.


Yeah I don't view Isabella's response to Valentina's overture as "clueless". I think she knows exactly what Valentina is doing/thinking and is choosing to play dumb because it's the easiest way to reject Valentina without actually having to turn her down. Just smile and and nod. I've done this many times in a work environment, usually with some older man who takes a too friendly interest in me that could maaaaybe be him seeing me as a daughter but probably not. The goal is to not embarrass your boss but calling them out on what they are doing.

However, I think Isabella is annoyed and weirded out by the decision to move Rocco and I think if Valentina pushes too far, Isabella might decide to complain. And since Valenina, like Armand, is technically the boss but doesn't really have true power, she'll lose her job.
m
Sigh. It’s sexual harassment!!! Women shouldn’t be worried about embarrassing someone who is sexually harassing them in the workplace…even if it is another woman !!

I had an old lesbian sexually harassed me at my first job at 22 and my co-workers thought it was hilarious. It was not to me. It was awful and she would show up in my lab when I was alone.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:What is up with Isabella that she doesn’t seem to realize what is up with Valentina. Does she not understand the guy is flirting with her, either? Is she very dim or is she ignoring sexual overatures on purpose?


Also curious about this. She was clearly not annoyed by Rocco so she either likes him back or maybe he’s gay? I think she likely aware of Valentina’s feelings but appears to be feigning ignorance to maintain a level of professionalism and because she isn’t interested? Unsure


She is clueless. She likes Rocco.


She definitely likes Rocco. I'm not so sure she's clueless about Valentina, but she definitely doesn't know what to do about it. And can we talk about Valentina? I don't mean to be offensive, but she comes across as possibly slightly on the spectrum (?) or something. What concierge/manager of a 5 star hotel doesn't know any jewelry stores to recommend? She then buys a brooch (which HBO is labeling "broach" in the subtitles! A dictionary, I beg of you) for a very junior co-worker and gives it to her in a totally awkward way and keeps on even when her feelings are clearly not returned. She's very off.


And she called Tanya Peppa Pig, and told Nono he was old! She does not have a lot of social graces, not sure how she made it to the top of this hotel. Hard work I guess.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Does anyone else love Mia? I find her so interesting and beguiling.


I do! I find her to be a hoot. I admit I have some trouble with her character development from lovelorn innocent in Episode 1 to where she is now, but she's fun to watch. Someone upthread talked about the opening credits - I had mentioned it before. I find Mia's image fascinating- the Sphinx. And a very brazen, busty, golden Sphinx. This does not really match what we've seen of her character so far. I don't think it's a coincidence so I'm very interested to see where she ends up.




Intriguing: "Compared with the Egyptian model, the Asian sphinx had eagle wings, was frequently female, and often sat on its haunches with one paw raised in depictions. In Greek traditions, the sphinx also had wings, as well as the tail of a serpent—in legends, it devours all travelers unable to answer its riddle."
https://www.history.com/topics/ancient-egypt/the-sphinx
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
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Anonymous wrote:Tanya’s not hurting anybody. She just floats around.

She’s probably overpaying the personal assistant, but nothing terrible is going on there. I’m sure other PAs or Annie’s if billionaires are sometimes treated terribly.

Being told to be on call during a $100k trip to Sicily…BFD. Don’t be a PA if you’re not available once in awhile.


She was exceptionally cruel in season 1 to the masseuse. Casually cruel in a way a wealthy person might not even understand just how cruel they were being.


I don’t think she understood at all. And I’m not even sure I would call it exceptional cruelty. She was toting her dead mother’s ashes around, trying to process her own grief and childhood trauma. Is trauma an excuse for bad behavior only if you’re poor?


Bad behavior is relative to the power of the people involved. It's not about rich/poor, it's about whether the person behaving badly has power for their bad behavior to harm others. In Season One, Tanya's behavior hurts Belinda. Yes, this is partly because Tanya is wealthy and Belinda is not, and part of Tanya's bad behavior is to offer money to Belinda and then withdraw that offer in a pretty immature way. But it's also because Belinda is employed by Tanya, which is more about their relative position than their wealth. But on the other hand, Belinda could be seen as taking advantage of a clearly not-all-there client in order to get access to her money. The reason she isn't is that Tanya initiates every aspect of their relationship, and Belinda is initially very reticent specifically due to the power dynamic. Tanya's betrayal thus feels particularly harmful because she's successfully convinced Belinda to let down her guard. Whatever Tanya's reasons for behaving this way, it doesn't change the fact that Belinda is suffering the consequences.

There are other examples of power differentials on the show that aren't about money and have similarly complex circumstances. For instance, Mia's interactions with Giuseppe, in which the power might lie with Mia (because Giuseppe desires her) or with Giuseppe (because he's older and more established). In the relationship between Lucia and Albie, it is Lucia, not Albie, who has the upper hand because she is savvier and more self-aware, even though Albie has more wealth and privilege. How you perceive the parties as victims or villains in these situations depends on the degree to which one person can be seen to be taking advantage of the other, which depends on who has more power and how that power is wielded.

I agree what Tanya did to Belinda was not exceptionally cruel, and is mitigated by the fact that Tanya is so divorced from her own feelings and awareness due to whatever happened to her in childhood. But I also don't think you can just write it off as no big deal because Tanya is a sympathetic character -- she still has a lot of power and thus has much more opportunity to hurt others than someone with less power. And she's accountable for that no matter what.


Eh, Belinda should have known better. Tanya was obviously off her rocker from the jump, often wandering around drunk or high, and Belinda was only nice to her because she smelled money. Talk about a purely transactional relationship! You can’t tell me Belinda actually cared about her, she was using her, as her son explicitly encouraged her to do. So she’s not some saint. And Tanya did give her a thick stack of cash for her trouble. It could have been 5-10k maybe more.


The show has no characters that are simply 100% good or 100% evil but to act like Tanya is innocent IMO exposes your own biases PP. She uses people like things for entertainment, she doesn't care about anything or anyone as individuals who exist in their own lives. Everyone she encounters she frames as what they are there to do for her. And by doing so she is cruel to those she discards. Maybe some of those people deserve it (I personally do not think Belinda did and like PP said the cruelty came from her insistence despite Belinda pushing back that she was serious) but it doesn't matter really if the people she discards are good and bad. The reality is that she uses and discards them and that is in fact bad and cruel.


“They were careless people, Tom and Daisy – they smashed up things and creatures and then retreated back into their money or their vast carelessness, or whatever it was that kept them together, and let other people clean up the mess they had made.”

F. Scott Fitzgerald


I re-read the book this weekend, and that quote was at the top of my mind as well. I was actually debating going to get the book so I could type out that passage to share here — you beat me to it!
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:What is up with Isabella that she doesn’t seem to realize what is up with Valentina. Does she not understand the guy is flirting with her, either? Is she very dim or is she ignoring sexual overatures on purpose?


Also curious about this. She was clearly not annoyed by Rocco so she either likes him back or maybe he’s gay? I think she likely aware of Valentina’s feelings but appears to be feigning ignorance to maintain a level of professionalism and because she isn’t interested? Unsure


She is clueless. She likes Rocco.


She definitely likes Rocco. I'm not so sure she's clueless about Valentina, but she definitely doesn't know what to do about it. And can we talk about Valentina? I don't mean to be offensive, but she comes across as possibly slightly on the spectrum (?) or something. What concierge/manager of a 5 star hotel doesn't know any jewelry stores to recommend? She then buys a brooch (which HBO is labeling "broach" in the subtitles! A dictionary, I beg of you) for a very junior co-worker and gives it to her in a totally awkward way and keeps on even when her feelings are clearly not returned. She's very off.


Yeah I don't view Isabella's response to Valentina's overture as "clueless". I think she knows exactly what Valentina is doing/thinking and is choosing to play dumb because it's the easiest way to reject Valentina without actually having to turn her down. Just smile and and nod. I've done this many times in a work environment, usually with some older man who takes a too friendly interest in me that could maaaaybe be him seeing me as a daughter but probably not. The goal is to not embarrass your boss but calling them out on what they are doing.

However, I think Isabella is annoyed and weirded out by the decision to move Rocco and I think if Valentina pushes too far, Isabella might decide to complain. And since Valenina, like Armand, is technically the boss but doesn't really have true power, she'll lose her job.
m
Sigh. It’s sexual harassment!!! Women shouldn’t be worried about embarrassing someone who is sexually harassing them in the workplace…even if it is another woman !!

I had an old lesbian sexually harassed me at my first job at 22 and my co-workers thought it was hilarious. It was not to me. It was awful and she would show up in my lab when I was alone.


I have been sexually harassed by a woman in the workplace and agree it shouldn't be embarrassing, but the reaction of your coworkers is not uncommon. Just because it shouldn't be embarrassing doesn't mean it doesn't feel that way. Also, no one takes it seriously. I still have PTSD from the workplace harassment I experienced, and I think part of the reason why is that everyone I tried to tell about it discounted it as no big deal because my harasser was a woman. It's like she benefitted from misogyny, because since women aren't taken seriously, her repeated physical advances on me were assumed to be harmless. But an unwanted touch is an unwanted touch, especially at work. No one cared though, and I did feel embarrassed because I was made so uncomfortable by something everyone else seem to view as no big deal.

Anonymous
I think it’s funny Mike White named the hotel and show The White Lotus, basically claiming both for himself and taking the blame (or credit) for everything ha.

I read that he used to work with Jack Black a lot and named some of their stuff Black and White or similar, heh.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:What is up with Isabella that she doesn’t seem to realize what is up with Valentina. Does she not understand the guy is flirting with her, either? Is she very dim or is she ignoring sexual overatures on purpose?


Also curious about this. She was clearly not annoyed by Rocco so she either likes him back or maybe he’s gay? I think she likely aware of Valentina’s feelings but appears to be feigning ignorance to maintain a level of professionalism and because she isn’t interested? Unsure


She is clueless. She likes Rocco.


She definitely likes Rocco. I'm not so sure she's clueless about Valentina, but she definitely doesn't know what to do about it. And can we talk about Valentina? I don't mean to be offensive, but she comes across as possibly slightly on the spectrum (?) or something. What concierge/manager of a 5 star hotel doesn't know any jewelry stores to recommend? She then buys a brooch (which HBO is labeling "broach" in the subtitles! A dictionary, I beg of you) for a very junior co-worker and gives it to her in a totally awkward way and keeps on even when her feelings are clearly not returned. She's very off.


And she called Tanya Peppa Pig, and told Nono he was old! She does not have a lot of social graces, not sure how she made it to the top of this hotel. Hard work I guess.


Valentina is comical, but not at all believable as the GM of a five star resort. Someone in that actual position would be incredibly professional at all times, not calling guests 'old', sexually harassing underlings, clip clopping around in her ridiculous high heels berating sex workers in the lobby in front of other guests and so on and so forth.
Anonymous
In the first episode, Daphne tells the women that “We” are leaving. I don’t think anything happens to Cameron. I also think it’s more than just two. When Rocco tells Valentina that A guest drowned, he adds there were other guests (plural). Maybe the con artists turn on each other and Portia and Tanya get caught up.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I don’t understand people who stan Daphne. Her marriage is a horrible shit show. Getting knocked up by your trainer and passing it off as your husband’s is not some cool power play. If she ever gets found out, she’d ruin that kid’s life.


OMG is that why she showed Harper the picture of the kids rather than the trainer?


I don’t think so. She talked about the trainer to make herself out as not being a victim. She may or may not have a trainer she sleeps with, but at the end of the day, it’s her kids who give her the motivation to get over whatever Cameron does and not focus on it.


Eh, she says my trainer has blond hair and blue eyes, want to see a picture? Then shows a picture of a blond haired kid. Cameron has brown hair. Google it.

https://www.today.com/popculture/tv/white-lotus-season-2-daphne-trainer-kids-theory-rcna59147


She’s calling the kid her trainer. She’s making some innuendo about her life, that she’s not a victim because she can do whatever Cameron is doing and have sex with whomever she wants. She makes that point to Harper. Then when she shows her the picture, it’s her kids- the point is that she doesn’t want to cheat, that’s not what actually makes her feel better about it. She just wants her happy, very comfortable life with her kids and her husband. People are reading way into this. Her trainer did not father her children.

Also, even if Cameron had brown eyes, hasn’t anyone ever heard of recessive genes? My dad has blue eyes and my mom has brown. I’m one of four kids and only one of us have brown eyes. The rest of us have blue and green.


No. Remember she tells Harper to get a trainer? You think she’s telling Harper to have a baby? She’s not. Blue eyes are not the same thing as blond hair.


Yes, this is EXACTLY what I think she’s telling Harper. She’s telling her to occupy her mind with something or someone else. My god! It’s so obvious.


Yes, she's telling her to get a F boy! Not a baby! You think Daphne is a great mother and spends so much time with her kids that she forgets her husband is a douche?
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:In the first episode, Daphne tells the women that “We” are leaving. I don’t think anything happens to Cameron. I also think it’s more than just two. When Rocco tells Valentina that A guest drowned, he adds there were other guests (plural). Maybe the con artists turn on each other and Portia and Tanya get caught up.


But if Daphne wanted to create a persuasive cover story, she would definitely want to say "we" to the women she meets on the beach so that if they talk to the cops, they remember that she seemed confident that she would be leaving with her husband. If she said "I'm leaving" and then happened upon her dead husband in the water, it would look crazy suspicious.

Though I also think Cameron probably lives, in part because right now the most obvious outcome seems to be Ethan killing Cameron, and this show generally doesn't go with obvious outcomes.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I don’t understand people who stan Daphne. Her marriage is a horrible shit show. Getting knocked up by your trainer and passing it off as your husband’s is not some cool power play. If she ever gets found out, she’d ruin that kid’s life.


OMG is that why she showed Harper the picture of the kids rather than the trainer?


I don’t think so. She talked about the trainer to make herself out as not being a victim. She may or may not have a trainer she sleeps with, but at the end of the day, it’s her kids who give her the motivation to get over whatever Cameron does and not focus on it.


Eh, she says my trainer has blond hair and blue eyes, want to see a picture? Then shows a picture of a blond haired kid. Cameron has brown hair. Google it.

https://www.today.com/popculture/tv/white-lotus-season-2-daphne-trainer-kids-theory-rcna59147


She’s calling the kid her trainer. She’s making some innuendo about her life, that she’s not a victim because she can do whatever Cameron is doing and have sex with whomever she wants. She makes that point to Harper. Then when she shows her the picture, it’s her kids- the point is that she doesn’t want to cheat, that’s not what actually makes her feel better about it. She just wants her happy, very comfortable life with her kids and her husband. People are reading way into this. Her trainer did not father her children.

Also, even if Cameron had brown eyes, hasn’t anyone ever heard of recessive genes? My dad has blue eyes and my mom has brown. I’m one of four kids and only one of us have brown eyes. The rest of us have blue and green.


I think you and I are the only ones that see this in this thread. I tack it up to personal life experience and age. Sigh.


The scene is purposefully ambiguous. They had her go on and on about this adorable trainer with blonde hair and blue eyes, two recessive genes. And then show a photo of a blonde haired blue eyed kid. I'm not SURE the trainer is the dad, but the show is clearly leaving the ambiguity there, putting the question out there. This is a show where all the background choices are dripping in meaning. There is a photo of St. Lucia in one of the rooms.
Anonymous
How are the gays conning Tanya and Portia? How did they get theater tickets and hotel rooms etc?
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