My sister wants a homebirth

[Anonymous]

Studies showing that planned midwife births at home have significantly higher death rates:

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32044310/

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/37164501/

And one from Italy looking at post-natal ER admission for home births:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/40004712/

Also, you can't just look at overall adverse outcomes in hospitals, as that will include all the very high risk patients (drug addicts, women with serious health conditions, twins or larger, breech presentation, placenta previa, etc.) and also likely will include rural hospitals that don't have real OB departments, and ERs receiving women transferred in after failed attempt at labor in birthing centers or at home.

I really disagree that at this point hospitals are giving a lot of unnecessary interventions. My sisters had 9 kids in hospital with zero intervention and zero pain medications. Gone are the days when they just gave you pitocin so the doctor could make his tee time, or did unnecessary episiotomies. Most OBs are women and care a lot about women's health. If they are saying a C is necessary, it's because they are worried about possible brain damage to the baby, or death/disability to you.

But hospitals are like flying -- a significant number of people have irrational anxiety about it and so they will make choices that are statistically less safe (like driving across country instead of flying -- both probably will work out fine, but one has a greater likelihood of adverse outcome).

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:OP, I’m physician and I am so sorry. People on this thread making these statements and citing all the stats are ignoring so many confounding variables. They’ve obviously never had to comfort women who lost their infants bc they waited too long to go to the hospital.

That being said, you don’t get to make this decision. The best thing you can do is be there for your niece or nephew and if things start going south encourage proper care.

Tragically, many more maternal and infant deaths occur before/during/after hospital births than home births.

Are you talking in absolute terms? Because i hope you understand that there are millions more births in hospitals than home births.

Obviously.

My point is that hospitals can be and often are unsafe places to give birth.

This is straight up propaganda.

Nope. Hospitals are increasingly understaffed. We have horrible maternal and infant mortality rates in the US and the vast majority of births are in hospitals.

I have nothing specifically against hospital births, I myself had my daughter in a hospital but I think it's completely insane to bash women who choose an alternative setting for their birth, given how appalling the hospital outcomes are.

the only place more understaffed than a hospital is your house. no doctors or nurses there.

Actually having a professional trained in facilitating childbirth who is with you continuously is more than most people get in the hospital. People have had babies the hospital without a single medical attendant in the room.

Yes, there are bad midwives and bad OBs out there. A good midwife knows when a transfer to the hospital is needed.

you're describing the least ideal hospital birth and the most ideal home birth.

if we could guarantee a highly-qualified midwife at every home birth I would feel better, but we can't... We do have a lot more ability to monitor the staff and ensure proper ones at a hospital. This is absurd to even discuss.

+1. And it does not matter how great your midwife is - if there is an emergency, care for your baby and yourself is going to be at least 30 minutes away at home.

Sometimes the emergencies are caused by the interventions in the hospital. Our C-section rates are absurdly high. That's not because women need so many c-sections, it's because our maternal health care system is fundamentally broken.

For nearly everyone who goes, having a birth at a hospital is an incredible medical miracle that defies millions of years of human experience.

Are you trying to argue that before the advent of hospital births, "nearly everyone" died in childbirth? That's patently false. The overwhelming majority of childbearing women did not die in childbirth. Modern medicine (some of which is available during home births and if the pregnancy is high risk the midwife should refer to an OB or MFM) has absolutely reduced maternal mortality but no need to exaggerate.

No. Weird you got that.

[Anonymous]

Terror?? You ned a therapist.

[Anonymous]

Had my 3 boys at home. Lots for you to fight about. .

[Anonymous]

I don't think it matters what the studies say. Op's sister can make her own decision.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I’m physician and I am so sorry. People on this thread making these statements and citing all the stats are ignoring so many confounding variables. They’ve obviously never had to comfort women who lost their infants bc they waited too long to go to the hospital.

That being said, you don’t get to make this decision. The best thing you can do is be there for your niece or nephew and if things start going south encourage proper care.

Tragically, many more maternal and infant deaths occur before/during/after hospital births than home births.

Are you talking in absolute terms? Because i hope you understand that there are millions more births in hospitals than home births.

Obviously.

My point is that hospitals can be and often are unsafe places to give birth.

This is straight up propaganda.

Nope. Hospitals are increasingly understaffed. We have horrible maternal and infant mortality rates in the US and the vast majority of births are in hospitals.

I have nothing specifically against hospital births, I myself had my daughter in a hospital but I think it's completely insane to bash women who choose an alternative setting for their birth, given how appalling the hospital outcomes are.

the only place more understaffed than a hospital is your house. no doctors or nurses there.

Actually having a professional trained in facilitating childbirth who is with you continuously is more than most people get in the hospital. People have had babies the hospital without a single medical attendant in the room.

Yes, there are bad midwives and bad OBs out there. A good midwife knows when a transfer to the hospital is needed.

Homebirth midwives are laughably untrained compared to OBs and even L&D nurses. You’re much better off with a doctor overseeing multiple laboring women at once than one crunchy “birth workers” with you all day.

In other developed countries midwives deliver most babies and they have much better birth outcomes in those countries.

In other developed countries midwives are consistently and reputably well trained it's analogous to certified nurse midwifes here. They also do not take on patients such as ops sister. And there is a well connected system with the hospital.again not what ops sister is doing. What ops sister is doing is stupid, dangerous and selfish for her and the baby and the biggest critics of it should be people in favor of homebirth because it gives the entire system a bad name

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I’m physician and I am so sorry. People on this thread making these statements and citing all the stats are ignoring so many confounding variables. They’ve obviously never had to comfort women who lost their infants bc they waited too long to go to the hospital.

That being said, you don’t get to make this decision. The best thing you can do is be there for your niece or nephew and if things start going south encourage proper care.

Tragically, many more maternal and infant deaths occur before/during/after hospital births than home births.

Are you talking in absolute terms? Because i hope you understand that there are millions more births in hospitals than home births.

Obviously.

My point is that hospitals can be and often are unsafe places to give birth.

This is straight up propaganda.

Nope. Hospitals are increasingly understaffed. We have horrible maternal and infant mortality rates in the US and the vast majority of births are in hospitals.

I have nothing specifically against hospital births, I myself had my daughter in a hospital but I think it's completely insane to bash women who choose an alternative setting for their birth, given how appalling the hospital outcomes are.

the only place more understaffed than a hospital is your house. no doctors or nurses there.

Actually having a professional trained in facilitating childbirth who is with you continuously is more than most people get in the hospital. People have had babies the hospital without a single medical attendant in the room.

Yes, there are bad midwives and bad OBs out there. A good midwife knows when a transfer to the hospital is needed.

Homebirth midwives are laughably untrained compared to OBs and even L&D nurses. You’re much better off with a doctor overseeing multiple laboring women at once than one crunchy “birth workers” with you all day.

In other developed countries midwives deliver most babies and they have much better birth outcomes in those countries.

In other developed countries midwives are consistently and reputably well trained it's analogous to certified nurse midwifes here. They also do not take on patients such as ops sister. And there is a well connected system with the hospital.again not what ops sister is doing. What ops sister is doing is stupid, dangerous and selfish for her and the baby and the biggest critics of it should be people in favor of homebirth because it gives the entire system a bad name

And what I was responding to is posters suggesting home births are so terrible that nobody should ever choose that option. That is contrary to what "the science" says about birth settings. There are safe home births and good midwives in the US and the anti home birth discourse on this thread is wildly ignorant.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Millions of babies were/are born this way it’s fine.

True. And millions died. Encourage her to at least work with a legitimate midwife - they will get her and the baby to a hospital if needed. What does the babies other baby think about this?

You know that we have horrible maternal and infant mortality compared to other “first world” countries right Because of managed care the clock starts when you walk in and labor has to “progress”. When it doesn’t an epidural is given which makes contractions much, much strong and causes more complications because it is stressful for the baby…meconium in the water or heart rate dropping. Then you are more likely to have a c-section. Doctors will not get sued for doing too much, but they do for doing too little.

Homebirths attended by a midwife are quite common in the Netherlands which has much better birth outcomes than the US. Key is attended by a midwife, being willing to transfer if needed and living close enough to a hospital.

[Anonymous]

Her body her choice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I’m physician and I am so sorry. People on this thread making these statements and citing all the stats are ignoring so many confounding variables. They’ve obviously never had to comfort women who lost their infants bc they waited too long to go to the hospital.

That being said, you don’t get to make this decision. The best thing you can do is be there for your niece or nephew and if things start going south encourage proper care.

Tragically, many more maternal and infant deaths occur before/during/after hospital births than home births.

Are you talking in absolute terms? Because i hope you understand that there are millions more births in hospitals than home births.

Obviously.

My point is that hospitals can be and often are unsafe places to give birth.

This is straight up propaganda.

Nope. Hospitals are increasingly understaffed. We have horrible maternal and infant mortality rates in the US and the vast majority of births are in hospitals.

I have nothing specifically against hospital births, I myself had my daughter in a hospital but I think it's completely insane to bash women who choose an alternative setting for their birth, given how appalling the hospital outcomes are.

the only place more understaffed than a hospital is your house. no doctors or nurses there.

Actually having a professional trained in facilitating childbirth who is with you continuously is more than most people get in the hospital. People have had babies the hospital without a single medical attendant in the room.

Yes, there are bad midwives and bad OBs out there. A good midwife knows when a transfer to the hospital is needed.

you're describing the least ideal hospital birth and the most ideal home birth.

if we could guarantee a highly-qualified midwife at every home birth I would feel better, but we can't... We do have a lot more ability to monitor the staff and ensure proper ones at a hospital. This is absurd to even discuss.

+1. And it does not matter how great your midwife is - if there is an emergency, care for your baby and yourself is going to be at least 30 minutes away at home.

Sometimes the emergencies are caused by the interventions in the hospital. Our C-section rates are absurdly high. That's not because women need so many c-sections, it's because our maternal health care system is fundamentally broken.

Ok give birth in a ditch.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Millions of babies were/are born this way it’s fine.

And a large percentage of those babies, and mothers, died in childbirth. It’s insane to say “it’s fine”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Millions of babies were/are born this way it’s fine.

And a large percentage of those babies, and mothers, died in childbirth. It’s insane to say “it’s fine”

Far too many babies and mothers today die before, during or after hospital births. It is insane to suggest hospital births are all safe and home births are all unsafe. There is a lot of variability among hospitals and among midwives that attend home births.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I’m physician and I am so sorry. People on this thread making these statements and citing all the stats are ignoring so many confounding variables. They’ve obviously never had to comfort women who lost their infants bc they waited too long to go to the hospital.

That being said, you don’t get to make this decision. The best thing you can do is be there for your niece or nephew and if things start going south encourage proper care.

Tragically, many more maternal and infant deaths occur before/during/after hospital births than home births.

Are you talking in absolute terms? Because i hope you understand that there are millions more births in hospitals than home births.

Obviously.

My point is that hospitals can be and often are unsafe places to give birth.

This is straight up propaganda.

Nope. Hospitals are increasingly understaffed. We have horrible maternal and infant mortality rates in the US and the vast majority of births are in hospitals.

I have nothing specifically against hospital births, I myself had my daughter in a hospital but I think it's completely insane to bash women who choose an alternative setting for their birth, given how appalling the hospital outcomes are.

the only place more understaffed than a hospital is your house. no doctors or nurses there.

Actually having a professional trained in facilitating childbirth who is with you continuously is more than most people get in the hospital. People have had babies the hospital without a single medical attendant in the room.

Yes, there are bad midwives and bad OBs out there. A good midwife knows when a transfer to the hospital is needed.

you're describing the least ideal hospital birth and the most ideal home birth.

if we could guarantee a highly-qualified midwife at every home birth I would feel better, but we can't... We do have a lot more ability to monitor the staff and ensure proper ones at a hospital. This is absurd to even discuss.

+1. And it does not matter how great your midwife is - if there is an emergency, care for your baby and yourself is going to be at least 30 minutes away at home.

Sometimes the emergencies are caused by the interventions in the hospital. Our C-section rates are absurdly high. That's not because women need so many c-sections, it's because our maternal health care system is fundamentally broken.

Ok give birth in a ditch.

Yep, that's the choice, either give birth in a hospital strapped to machines or in a ditch :roll:

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I’m physician and I am so sorry. People on this thread making these statements and citing all the stats are ignoring so many confounding variables. They’ve obviously never had to comfort women who lost their infants bc they waited too long to go to the hospital.

That being said, you don’t get to make this decision. The best thing you can do is be there for your niece or nephew and if things start going south encourage proper care.

Tragically, many more maternal and infant deaths occur before/during/after hospital births than home births.

Are you talking in absolute terms? Because i hope you understand that there are millions more births in hospitals than home births.

Obviously.

My point is that hospitals can be and often are unsafe places to give birth.

This is straight up propaganda.

Nope. Hospitals are increasingly understaffed. We have horrible maternal and infant mortality rates in the US and the vast majority of births are in hospitals.

I have nothing specifically against hospital births, I myself had my daughter in a hospital but I think it's completely insane to bash women who choose an alternative setting for their birth, given how appalling the hospital outcomes are.

the only place more understaffed than a hospital is your house. no doctors or nurses there.

Actually having a professional trained in facilitating childbirth who is with you continuously is more than most people get in the hospital. People have had babies the hospital without a single medical attendant in the room.

Yes, there are bad midwives and bad OBs out there. A good midwife knows when a transfer to the hospital is needed.

Homebirth midwives are laughably untrained compared to OBs and even L&D nurses. You’re much better off with a doctor overseeing multiple laboring women at once than one crunchy “birth workers” with you all day.

In other developed countries midwives deliver most babies and they have much better birth outcomes in those countries.

In other developed countries midwives are consistently and reputably well trained it's analogous to certified nurse midwifes here. They also do not take on patients such as ops sister. And there is a well connected system with the hospital.again not what ops sister is doing. What ops sister is doing is stupid, dangerous and selfish for her and the baby and the biggest critics of it should be people in favor of homebirth because it gives the entire system a bad name

And what I was responding to is posters suggesting home births are so terrible that nobody should ever choose that option. That is contrary to what "the science" says about birth settings. There are safe home births and good midwives in the US and the anti home birth discourse on this thread is wildly ignorant.

Sure, would any good certified nurse midwife take this case? I don't think so, I think sister would be risked out which means you're going with a provider that is comfortable taking on a case that's much higher risk that the real pros won't touch. That seems like a bad idea.

[Anonymous]

It's your sister's body/baby, so your sister's choice. Keep your opinions to yourself and be supportive