DOJ civil rights probe into TJ admissions policies

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:TJ was great for decades. It is still great. What has changed is the political climate because of right wing media and the constant use of children in culture wars- gay rights bans, transgender bathroom/sports bans, book bans, ban on teaching African American history, TJ admissions process challenges, public school funding reductions, etc etc. A certain party is trying to dismantle not only TJ but public education in general. But most parents are too stupid and too busy fighting among and forgetting the bigger picture.

This is the exact opposite of the truth.

The democrats are the party pushing culture wars. Boys allowed in girls’ school bathrooms? - Obama. 87 genders and mandatory pronouns? Democrats did that, not the republicans. “Include” violent, chair-throwing kids in every class instead of suspension, expulsion, or separate schools? Obama’s DEI did that. Discourage or ban suspensions for school violence? That was Obama’s “Dear Colleagues” letter in 2014, and the policies which followed. Whole-language and Lucy Calkins replacing phonics? Democrats again. VMPI? Democrats. Abolishing gifted and talented in NYC and Seattle? Democrats.

All of these withering blows to public education come from democrats; not republicans.

DP here.

You basically proved the point the PP made.

The polarization of what should be non-issues is exactly why TJ is a fixation for people like you. Why the GOP keeps going at it because it riles you up. It fills you with indignant righteousness that you feel you need to stand up for.

You just listed a bunch of “it’s the democrats fault” immediately instead of giving a nuanced response. Think about that for a moment. Digest why you are so angry.

If you are upset your kid didn’t get into TJ- sure, you are right to be upset. But is your kid happy now? Are they going to a good college? If this has nothing to do with your kid…. Then really digest why you are upset. Why you are so quick to retaliate against any criticism against the GOP.

Is it productive? Because as a person reading your comments- it seems really sad.

And btw- there as Asians from feeder schools getting Cs in classes too. Don’t assume that the kids getting in from feeders aren’t struggling. TJ challenges all of the kids.

Exactly.

Republicans continue to use TJ as political fodder. It’s disgusting.

It is the Democrats who used the George Floyd hysteria to politicize TJ admissions and hurried through half-baked changes in the middle of a pandemic. They made changes a few days before the testing was supposed to take place.

The behavior of Democrats is disgusting.

[Anonymous]

I am glad there is an investigation. If the FCPS has done nothing wrong, they have nothing to worry about.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Republicans continue to push this crap for political purposes.

They should just close TJ down.

Yes. Save money. Shut it down.

Why am I not surprised to read this comment on a board which trends 95% progressive democrats?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Republicans continue to push this crap for political purposes.

They should just close TJ down.

Yes. Save money. Shut it down.

Why am I not surprised to read this comment on a board which trends 95% progressive democrats?

+1000

See, they really do not care to improve the education of the economically disadvantaged. They just want performative wins that lets them look down their noses at the masses.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I didn't think Trump cared about minorities...LOL wait until DOGE hears about this.

Unless their goal is to shutter TJ.

The only people eager to shutter TJ are the woke democrats running FCPS.

They also want to abolish the AAP program, just like their progressive counterparts in NYC and Seattle.

Whoever they are, I am thankful to them that TJ is now more accessible.

Yeah accessible to less qualified kids.

Proof?

120 point drop in PSAT scores.

Is there any way to analyze whether the kids whose scores caused this drop = the ones who weren't qualified under the old TJ admissions policy? Or whether it is somewhat random?

Mostly caused by pandemic learning loss.

The drop in NMSF was not caused by the pandemic learning loss. Every state has the top 0.5% earn the award. TJ had a much smaller share of the top 0.5% relative to the rest of FCPS and the rest of VA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:TJ was great for decades. It is still great. What has changed is the political climate because of right wing media and the constant use of children in culture wars- gay rights bans, transgender bathroom/sports bans, book bans, ban on teaching African American history, TJ admissions process challenges, public school funding reductions, etc etc. A certain party is trying to dismantle not only TJ but public education in general. But most parents are too stupid and too busy fighting among and forgetting the bigger picture.

This is the exact opposite of the truth.

The democrats are the party pushing culture wars. Boys allowed in girls’ school bathrooms? - Obama. 87 genders and mandatory pronouns? Democrats did that, not the republicans. “Include” violent, chair-throwing kids in every class instead of suspension, expulsion, or separate schools? Obama’s DEI did that. Discourage or ban suspensions for school violence? That was Obama’s “Dear Colleagues” letter in 2014, and the policies which followed. Whole-language and Lucy Calkins replacing phonics? Democrats again. VMPI? Democrats. Abolishing gifted and talented in NYC and Seattle? Democrats.

All of these withering blows to public education come from democrats; not republicans.

DP here.

You basically proved the point the PP made.

The polarization of what should be non-issues is exactly why TJ is a fixation for people like you. Why the GOP keeps going at it because it riles you up. It fills you with indignant righteousness that you feel you need to stand up for.

You just listed a bunch of “it’s the democrats fault” immediately instead of giving a nuanced response. Think about that for a moment. Digest why you are so angry.

If you are upset your kid didn’t get into TJ- sure, you are right to be upset. But is your kid happy now? Are they going to a good college? If this has nothing to do with your kid…. Then really digest why you are upset. Why you are so quick to retaliate against any criticism against the GOP.

Is it productive? Because as a person reading your comments- it seems really sad.

And btw- there as Asians from feeder schools getting Cs in classes too. Don’t assume that the kids getting in from feeders aren’t struggling. TJ challenges all of the kids.

First, my child has been accepted at TJ.

Second, I will continue to call out the left’s obsession with identity politics and their insistence on waging culture-wars against this great nation.

Finally, when your own family have suffered under obscene human rights abuses and virtual slavery, which were universal under the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, and you see the same socialist ideologies and attempts at cultural engineering creeping into the American politik, you might begin to understand the importance of using your Constitutional right to speak out against what the leftists are trying to do.

This is some looney toons stuff right here. Yes the USSR was an absolute nightmare, but not socialist by any means. A good education would help you learn the difference between socialist economies and socialist authoritarian govts. You might also understand that people are protecting the vulnerable and historically oppressed in this country to try not to repeat OUR humans rights abuses of the past.

So while you wring your hands over our schools trying to be more available to more people, our government is actually working to strip those availabilities away and make access less available.

So enough with the Cuba/USSR/Venezuela comparisons and "leftists" because the people moving us closer and closer to that reality by eveyr minute are on the right.
That so

What a long winded way of saying you think racism is ok if you feel guilty about slavery and jim crow

The thing about equity that reminds people of communism is the whole marxist separation of people into the oppressed and the oppressor. The focus on equality of outcome. And how this cannot be achieved without authoritarianism and statist government.

The extreme right is no better but everybody knows the extreme right poses that risk and we are all wary of it. The left thinks that their good intentions makes the authoritarianism any less dangerous.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Republicans continue to push this crap for political purposes.

They should just close TJ down.

The dems need to stop giving them ammunition.

It was never proven that the admissions were discriminating against qualifying children who weren't Asian simply because they weren't Asian, only that the school's Asian population was a much higher percentage than the overall system population of Asians.

Adjusting the process specifically to change the racial/ethnic demographics is discrimination, and in this country it is illegal.

If you don't want your opponent to take advantage of your obvious screw ups, stop screwing up.

It doesn't matter what the dems do since they'll just make stuff up. These guys are crazy and see conspiracies everywhere.

So Dems should feel free to be racist because they're just going to be accused of racism anyway? Are you sure you're not a Republican?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
https://www.cnn.com/2025/05/21/politics/doj-thomas-jefferson-high-school-fairfax

How does this impact next year's admissions process? Should students prepare for just the essay or will they be tested in middle school math, science and English?

Maybe they could get rid of experience factors and go back to an objective test. Keeping the 1.5% seat allocation will ensure that every middle school has representation at the school every jurisdiction funds with taxes.

But bottom half of fcps schools dont have enough applicants to fill even the 1.5% seat allocation, making it difficult to get to the desired diversity chart. Experience factors and non-academic criteria like essays help get to the predetermined ethnicity mix, whether it is stem qualified or not.

True.

Experience factors =

1) Economic Disadvantage: free or reduced-price lunch (FARMs)

2) English as a Second Language (ESL): enrolled in school programs designed for non-native English speakers, and

3) Special Education Needs: Students with Individualized Education Plans (IEPs) or Section 504 plans.

Experience factors account for 40% of the TJ admission standard total.

But they are all struggling at TJ with Cs & Ds, when they could thrive at their base school with As and Bs. Why are they being used as political props to satisfy a mere diversity chart?

Ugh, none of those factors, 1,2, or 3 qualifies a student for TJ, but what proof is there that they are struggling with C's & D's? And can NAACP really get traction if kids who aren't admitted have lesser scores on objective testing, even if it appears to be disparate impact if you only take race into account?

We don't know their grades other than anecdotally. But anecdotally, kids from some schools struggle more than others, especially in math.
We also know that the kids going back to their base school tend to be more prevalent at less academically rigorous schools

FCPS has basically given up on actually helping these kids teach their potential but also don't want to feel bad about having given up on these kids. So they try to get them into TJ where they will frequently fail and call it a day.

NAACP can't actually win a lawsuit but they can make woke white people feel bad.

I see that back in the 2016-17 school year, well before the admissions changes, 25 TJ kids had left over the course of the school year through April. This year the number is 13.

It doesn't seem kids are bailing on TJ more than in the past. Maybe the curriculum has adjusted to accommodate less advanced students, but that's a different question.

Wasn’t last year 50 kids left from freshman class?

significantly higher than that. In a scramble to backfill those vacancies, there’s aggressive outreach to top feeder base schools, urging students to apply as froshmores in 10th grade. Leaving those seats unfilled would draw criticism of the non-merit essay admission process. But entering TJ in 10th is a nightmare, without having the advantage of getting acclimated as freshman.

Proof?

Aren't you the one flooding this forum pleading top feeders to apply as froshmores?

DP. I am one of the posters encouraging people to apply as froshmores. I don't care if it's they're coming from Carson or Twain, just need to backfill the classes. Funding is based on headcount and they are going to fill those spots, it would be nice if the froshmores were smart

Bigger question is why are unqualified being made freshman offers knowing well many of them quit in freshmen, and then backfill the vacancies later by soliciting qualified students to apply as froshmores in 10th while depriving them of freshman experience? Why these manipulative race based admissions games with students academics?

+1 It's okay for a competitive admissions based school to choose the best and the brightest. Of course, this presumes no "cheating" by which I define seeing the test/answers in advance or getting someone else to take the test (or write the essay) for you (a la the college admissions scandal). Studying/prepping is okay. But admission should not be based on quotas (whether geographic, racial, religious, etc) nor experience factors. It's not just about being fair to the kids who lose out to poorer students; it's also about the best use of taxpayer resources and the common good. We need to produce the best mathematicians, engineers, and scientists possible and that means vetting all the kids the same way. Otherwise, given the demographics, the US will not have the human capital it needs to compete with other countries. Then we all lose.

That depends on whether you view acceptance to TJ as an end result or a beginning. If you see it as an end result, i.e., the best and the brightest should receive acceptance solely on their current merit as assessed by a test and that is the end of the issue, than the issue seems pretty black and white. The goal is completing an admissions cohort to TJ that, in a snapshot in time of 14 year olds, proves the highest level of achievement and knowledge assessment and that is the clearest and most efficient way to achieve that goal.

However, if you view acceptance to TJ as a beginning, where students have access to an amazing public resource where those with incredible academic potential are challenged and provided with the highest level of academic resources available to them in the FCPS school system, then we need to do all we can to better identify those students who may possess this potential including identifying barriers that some students with that potential may face. And that is not always recognized by a snapshot in time where a student can score the highest on a test, when we all know that some students in this county have access to better resources to prepare them for that one snapshot in time than others. But that doesn't mean that other students would not achieve success at TJ if provided with those resources and rise to meet the challenges of its curriculum.

What amazing public resources does TJ have that other schools do not?

An advanced curriculum? Then why are we admitting so many kids who have just finished algebra?

The facilities? TJ is one of the oldest buildings in the FCPS inventory with a construction date of 1964.

Better college admissions? We all know this is not true

Better college preparation? Sure, but only if you can keep up and succeed academically.

There is no opportunity here for the unprepared, only suffering.

And without some objective measure of academic merit or even academic potential you aren't even looking for diamonds in the rough that could shine if given the right polish. You're looking for racial balancing.

[Anonymous]

this forum here has no Republicans, but all Democrats. One nutcase poster keeps calling democrats who support merit as Republicans.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I didn't think Trump cared about minorities...LOL wait until DOGE hears about this.

Unless their goal is to shutter TJ.

The only people eager to shutter TJ are the woke democrats running FCPS.

They also want to abolish the AAP program, just like their progressive counterparts in NYC and Seattle.

Whoever they are, I am thankful to them that TJ is now more accessible.

Yeah accessible to less qualified kids.

Proof?

120 point drop in PSAT scores.

Is there any way to analyze whether the kids whose scores caused this drop = the ones who weren't qualified under the old TJ admissions policy? Or whether it is somewhat random?

Mostly caused by pandemic learning loss.

Why is TJ class of 2025 the only group in the country that seems to have suffered this pandemic leaning los?

TJ class of 2024 didn't have that sorry of learning loss on their PSAT or SAT.

Stuyvesant class of 2025 didn't have that sort of learning loss on their PSAT

Mclean class of 2025 didn't have that sort of learning loss on their PSAT.

Why was TJ class of 2025 the only class (so far) to exhibit this learning loss?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
https://www.cnn.com/2025/05/21/politics/doj-thomas-jefferson-high-school-fairfax

How does this impact next year's admissions process? Should students prepare for just the essay or will they be tested in middle school math, science and English?

Maybe they could get rid of experience factors and go back to an objective test. Keeping the 1.5% seat allocation will ensure that every middle school has representation at the school every jurisdiction funds with taxes.

But bottom half of fcps schools dont have enough applicants to fill even the 1.5% seat allocation, making it difficult to get to the desired diversity chart. Experience factors and non-academic criteria like essays help get to the predetermined ethnicity mix, whether it is stem qualified or not.

True.

Experience factors =

1) Economic Disadvantage: free or reduced-price lunch (FARMs)

2) English as a Second Language (ESL): enrolled in school programs designed for non-native English speakers, and

3) Special Education Needs: Students with Individualized Education Plans (IEPs) or Section 504 plans.

Experience factors account for 40% of the TJ admission standard total.

But they are all struggling at TJ with Cs & Ds, when they could thrive at their base school with As and Bs. Why are they being used as political props to satisfy a mere diversity chart?

Ugh, none of those factors, 1,2, or 3 qualifies a student for TJ, but what proof is there that they are struggling with C's & D's? And can NAACP really get traction if kids who aren't admitted have lesser scores on objective testing, even if it appears to be disparate impact if you only take race into account?

We don't know their grades other than anecdotally. But anecdotally, kids from some schools struggle more than others, especially in math.
We also know that the kids going back to their base school tend to be more prevalent at less academically rigorous schools

FCPS has basically given up on actually helping these kids teach their potential but also don't want to feel bad about having given up on these kids. So they try to get them into TJ where they will frequently fail and call it a day.

NAACP can't actually win a lawsuit but they can make woke white people feel bad.

I see that back in the 2016-17 school year, well before the admissions changes, 25 TJ kids had left over the course of the school year through April. This year the number is 13.

It doesn't seem kids are bailing on TJ more than in the past. Maybe the curriculum has adjusted to accommodate less advanced students, but that's a different question.

Wasn’t last year 50 kids left from freshman class?

significantly higher than that. In a scramble to backfill those vacancies, there’s aggressive outreach to top feeder base schools, urging students to apply as froshmores in 10th grade. Leaving those seats unfilled would draw criticism of the non-merit essay admission process. But entering TJ in 10th is a nightmare, without having the advantage of getting acclimated as freshman.

Proof?

Aren't you the one flooding this forum pleading top feeders to apply as froshmores?

DP. I am one of the posters encouraging people to apply as froshmores. I don't care if it's they're coming from Carson or Twain, just need to backfill the classes. Funding is based on headcount and they are going to fill those spots, it would be nice if the froshmores were smart

Bigger question is why are unqualified being made freshman offers knowing well many of them quit in freshmen, and then backfill the vacancies later by soliciting qualified students to apply as froshmores in 10th while depriving them of freshman experience? Why these manipulative race based admissions games with students academics?

Admissions is race blind.

Increasing economic diversity was the biggest effect of the change.

TJ only accepted <1% of kids of kids from low-income families before the change.

The biggest beneficiaries were Asian kids from low-income families.

Shhhh! Stop using facts! You're harming the false grievance narrative.

You are cherrypicking a subset of Asians that increased to pretend that this was good for Asians?

You are horrible at gaslighting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
https://www.cnn.com/2025/05/21/politics/doj-thomas-jefferson-high-school-fairfax

How does this impact next year's admissions process? Should students prepare for just the essay or will they be tested in middle school math, science and English?

Maybe they could get rid of experience factors and go back to an objective test. Keeping the 1.5% seat allocation will ensure that every middle school has representation at the school every jurisdiction funds with taxes.

But bottom half of fcps schools dont have enough applicants to fill even the 1.5% seat allocation, making it difficult to get to the desired diversity chart. Experience factors and non-academic criteria like essays help get to the predetermined ethnicity mix, whether it is stem qualified or not.

True.

Experience factors =

1) Economic Disadvantage: free or reduced-price lunch (FARMs)

2) English as a Second Language (ESL): enrolled in school programs designed for non-native English speakers, and

3) Special Education Needs: Students with Individualized Education Plans (IEPs) or Section 504 plans.

Experience factors account for 40% of the TJ admission standard total.

But they are all struggling at TJ with Cs & Ds, when they could thrive at their base school with As and Bs. Why are they being used as political props to satisfy a mere diversity chart?

Ugh, none of those factors, 1,2, or 3 qualifies a student for TJ, but what proof is there that they are struggling with C's & D's? And can NAACP really get traction if kids who aren't admitted have lesser scores on objective testing, even if it appears to be disparate impact if you only take race into account?

We don't know their grades other than anecdotally. But anecdotally, kids from some schools struggle more than others, especially in math.
We also know that the kids going back to their base school tend to be more prevalent at less academically rigorous schools

FCPS has basically given up on actually helping these kids teach their potential but also don't want to feel bad about having given up on these kids. So they try to get them into TJ where they will frequently fail and call it a day.

NAACP can't actually win a lawsuit but they can make woke white people feel bad.

I see that back in the 2016-17 school year, well before the admissions changes, 25 TJ kids had left over the course of the school year through April. This year the number is 13.

It doesn't seem kids are bailing on TJ more than in the past. Maybe the curriculum has adjusted to accommodate less advanced students, but that's a different question.

Wasn’t last year 50 kids left from freshman class?

significantly higher than that. In a scramble to backfill those vacancies, there’s aggressive outreach to top feeder base schools, urging students to apply as froshmores in 10th grade. Leaving those seats unfilled would draw criticism of the non-merit essay admission process. But entering TJ in 10th is a nightmare, without having the advantage of getting acclimated as freshman.

Proof?

Aren't you the one flooding this forum pleading top feeders to apply as froshmores?

DP. I am one of the posters encouraging people to apply as froshmores. I don't care if it's they're coming from Carson or Twain, just need to backfill the classes. Funding is based on headcount and they are going to fill those spots, it would be nice if the froshmores were smart

Bigger question is why are unqualified being made freshman offers knowing well many of them quit in freshmen, and then backfill the vacancies later by soliciting qualified students to apply as froshmores in 10th while depriving them of freshman experience? Why these manipulative race based admissions games with students academics?

+1 It's okay for a competitive admissions based school to choose the best and the brightest. Of course, this presumes no "cheating" by which I define seeing the test/answers in advance or getting someone else to take the test (or write the essay) for you (a la the college admissions scandal). Studying/prepping is okay. But admission should not be based on quotas (whether geographic, racial, religious, etc) nor experience factors. It's not just about being fair to the kids who lose out to poorer students; it's also about the best use of taxpayer resources and the common good. We need to produce the best mathematicians, engineers, and scientists possible and that means vetting all the kids the same way. Otherwise, given the demographics, the US will not have the human capital it needs to compete with other countries. Then we all lose.

That depends on whether you view acceptance to TJ as an end result or a beginning. If you see it as an end result, i.e., the best and the brightest should receive acceptance solely on their current merit as assessed by a test and that is the end of the issue, than the issue seems pretty black and white. The goal is completing an admissions cohort to TJ that, in a snapshot in time of 14 year olds, proves the highest level of achievement and knowledge assessment and that is the clearest and most efficient way to achieve that goal.

However, if you view acceptance to TJ as a beginning, where students have access to an amazing public resource where those with incredible academic potential are challenged and provided with the highest level of academic resources available to them in the FCPS school system, then we need to do all we can to better identify those students who may possess this potential including identifying barriers that some students with that potential may face. And that is not always recognized by a snapshot in time where a student can score the highest on a test, when we all know that some students in this county have access to better resources to prepare them for that one snapshot in time than others. But that doesn't mean that other students would not achieve success at TJ if provided with those resources and rise to meet the challenges of its curriculum.

I'm all for taking into account multiple standardized tests/dates to alleviate the "snapshot" issue and to address a kid having a bad testing day. But there is no way that we can pretend that the lower scoring kids will have an equal chance at success at TJ. It's kind of like a PP said, the best shot that URM have may be is to have had different parents. Like being adopted by Asian parents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
https://www.cnn.com/2025/05/21/politics/doj-thomas-jefferson-high-school-fairfax

How does this impact next year's admissions process? Should students prepare for just the essay or will they be tested in middle school math, science and English?

Maybe they could get rid of experience factors and go back to an objective test. Keeping the 1.5% seat allocation will ensure that every middle school has representation at the school every jurisdiction funds with taxes.

But bottom half of fcps schools dont have enough applicants to fill even the 1.5% seat allocation, making it difficult to get to the desired diversity chart. Experience factors and non-academic criteria like essays help get to the predetermined ethnicity mix, whether it is stem qualified or not.

True.

Experience factors =

1) Economic Disadvantage: free or reduced-price lunch (FARMs)

2) English as a Second Language (ESL): enrolled in school programs designed for non-native English speakers, and

3) Special Education Needs: Students with Individualized Education Plans (IEPs) or Section 504 plans.

Experience factors account for 40% of the TJ admission standard total.

But they are all struggling at TJ with Cs & Ds, when they could thrive at their base school with As and Bs. Why are they being used as political props to satisfy a mere diversity chart?

Ugh, none of those factors, 1,2, or 3 qualifies a student for TJ, but what proof is there that they are struggling with C's & D's? And can NAACP really get traction if kids who aren't admitted have lesser scores on objective testing, even if it appears to be disparate impact if you only take race into account?

We don't know their grades other than anecdotally. But anecdotally, kids from some schools struggle more than others, especially in math.
We also know that the kids going back to their base school tend to be more prevalent at less academically rigorous schools

FCPS has basically given up on actually helping these kids teach their potential but also don't want to feel bad about having given up on these kids. So they try to get them into TJ where they will frequently fail and call it a day.

NAACP can't actually win a lawsuit but they can make woke white people feel bad.

I see that back in the 2016-17 school year, well before the admissions changes, 25 TJ kids had left over the course of the school year through April. This year the number is 13.

It doesn't seem kids are bailing on TJ more than in the past. Maybe the curriculum has adjusted to accommodate less advanced students, but that's a different question.

Wasn’t last year 50 kids left from freshman class?

significantly higher than that. In a scramble to backfill those vacancies, there’s aggressive outreach to top feeder base schools, urging students to apply as froshmores in 10th grade. Leaving those seats unfilled would draw criticism of the non-merit essay admission process. But entering TJ in 10th is a nightmare, without having the advantage of getting acclimated as freshman.

Proof?

Aren't you the one flooding this forum pleading top feeders to apply as froshmores?

DP. I am one of the posters encouraging people to apply as froshmores. I don't care if it's they're coming from Carson or Twain, just need to backfill the classes. Funding is based on headcount and they are going to fill those spots, it would be nice if the froshmores were smart

Bigger question is why are unqualified being made freshman offers knowing well many of them quit in freshmen, and then backfill the vacancies later by soliciting qualified students to apply as froshmores in 10th while depriving them of freshman experience? Why these manipulative race based admissions games with students academics?

+1 It's okay for a competitive admissions based school to choose the best and the brightest. Of course, this presumes no "cheating" by which I define seeing the test/answers in advance or getting someone else to take the test (or write the essay) for you (a la the college admissions scandal). Studying/prepping is okay. But admission should not be based on quotas (whether geographic, racial, religious, etc) nor experience factors. It's not just about being fair to the kids who lose out to poorer students; it's also about the best use of taxpayer resources and the common good. We need to produce the best mathematicians, engineers, and scientists possible and that means vetting all the kids the same way. Otherwise, given the demographics, the US will not have the human capital it needs to compete with other countries. Then we all lose.

That depends on whether you view acceptance to TJ as an end result or a beginning. If you see it as an end result, i.e., the best and the brightest should receive acceptance solely on their current merit as assessed by a test and that is the end of the issue, than the issue seems pretty black and white. The goal is completing an admissions cohort to TJ that, in a snapshot in time of 14 year olds, proves the highest level of achievement and knowledge assessment and that is the clearest and most efficient way to achieve that goal.

However, if you view acceptance to TJ as a beginning, where students have access to an amazing public resource where those with incredible academic potential are challenged and provided with the highest level of academic resources available to them in the FCPS school system, then we need to do all we can to better identify those students who may possess this potential including identifying barriers that some students with that potential may face. And that is not always recognized by a snapshot in time where a student can score the highest on a test, when we all know that some students in this county have access to better resources to prepare them for that one snapshot in time than others. But that doesn't mean that other students would not achieve success at TJ if provided with those resources and rise to meet the challenges of its curriculum.

I'm all for taking into account multiple standardized tests/dates to alleviate the "snapshot" issue and to address a kid having a bad testing day. But there is no way that we can pretend that the lower scoring kids will have an equal chance at success at TJ. It's kind of like a PP said, the best shot that URM have may be is to have had different parents. Like being adopted by Asian parents.

Come on, the modern science is mainly developed by white scientists.
But, yes, ancient Indians created Arabic numerals. Maybe some ethical groups do have some genic advantages ? To balance this, maybe FCPS should add sports, especially basketball and football, into the admission cohort evaluation.

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https://www.cnn.com/2025/05/21/politics/doj-thomas-jefferson-high-school-fairfax

How does this impact next year's admissions process? Should students prepare for just the essay or will they be tested in middle school math, science and English?

Maybe they could get rid of experience factors and go back to an objective test. Keeping the 1.5% seat allocation will ensure that every middle school has representation at the school every jurisdiction funds with taxes.

But bottom half of fcps schools dont have enough applicants to fill even the 1.5% seat allocation, making it difficult to get to the desired diversity chart. Experience factors and non-academic criteria like essays help get to the predetermined ethnicity mix, whether it is stem qualified or not.

True.

Experience factors =

1) Economic Disadvantage: free or reduced-price lunch (FARMs)

2) English as a Second Language (ESL): enrolled in school programs designed for non-native English speakers, and

3) Special Education Needs: Students with Individualized Education Plans (IEPs) or Section 504 plans.

Experience factors account for 40% of the TJ admission standard total.

But they are all struggling at TJ with Cs & Ds, when they could thrive at their base school with As and Bs. Why are they being used as political props to satisfy a mere diversity chart?

Ugh, none of those factors, 1,2, or 3 qualifies a student for TJ, but what proof is there that they are struggling with C's & D's? And can NAACP really get traction if kids who aren't admitted have lesser scores on objective testing, even if it appears to be disparate impact if you only take race into account?

We don't know their grades other than anecdotally. But anecdotally, kids from some schools struggle more than others, especially in math.
We also know that the kids going back to their base school tend to be more prevalent at less academically rigorous schools

FCPS has basically given up on actually helping these kids teach their potential but also don't want to feel bad about having given up on these kids. So they try to get them into TJ where they will frequently fail and call it a day.

NAACP can't actually win a lawsuit but they can make woke white people feel bad.

I see that back in the 2016-17 school year, well before the admissions changes, 25 TJ kids had left over the course of the school year through April. This year the number is 13.

It doesn't seem kids are bailing on TJ more than in the past. Maybe the curriculum has adjusted to accommodate less advanced students, but that's a different question.

Wasn’t last year 50 kids left from freshman class?

significantly higher than that. In a scramble to backfill those vacancies, there’s aggressive outreach to top feeder base schools, urging students to apply as froshmores in 10th grade. Leaving those seats unfilled would draw criticism of the non-merit essay admission process. But entering TJ in 10th is a nightmare, without having the advantage of getting acclimated as freshman.

Proof?

Aren't you the one flooding this forum pleading top feeders to apply as froshmores?

DP. I am one of the posters encouraging people to apply as froshmores. I don't care if it's they're coming from Carson or Twain, just need to backfill the classes. Funding is based on headcount and they are going to fill those spots, it would be nice if the froshmores were smart

Bigger question is why are unqualified being made freshman offers knowing well many of them quit in freshmen, and then backfill the vacancies later by soliciting qualified students to apply as froshmores in 10th while depriving them of freshman experience? Why these manipulative race based admissions games with students academics?

+1 It's okay for a competitive admissions based school to choose the best and the brightest. Of course, this presumes no "cheating" by which I define seeing the test/answers in advance or getting someone else to take the test (or write the essay) for you (a la the college admissions scandal). Studying/prepping is okay. But admission should not be based on quotas (whether geographic, racial, religious, etc) nor experience factors. It's not just about being fair to the kids who lose out to poorer students; it's also about the best use of taxpayer resources and the common good. We need to produce the best mathematicians, engineers, and scientists possible and that means vetting all the kids the same way. Otherwise, given the demographics, the US will not have the human capital it needs to compete with other countries. Then we all lose.

That depends on whether you view acceptance to TJ as an end result or a beginning. If you see it as an end result, i.e., the best and the brightest should receive acceptance solely on their current merit as assessed by a test and that is the end of the issue, than the issue seems pretty black and white. The goal is completing an admissions cohort to TJ that, in a snapshot in time of 14 year olds, proves the highest level of achievement and knowledge assessment and that is the clearest and most efficient way to achieve that goal.

However, if you view acceptance to TJ as a beginning, where students have access to an amazing public resource where those with incredible academic potential are challenged and provided with the highest level of academic resources available to them in the FCPS school system, then we need to do all we can to better identify those students who may possess this potential including identifying barriers that some students with that potential may face. And that is not always recognized by a snapshot in time where a student can score the highest on a test, when we all know that some students in this county have access to better resources to prepare them for that one snapshot in time than others. But that doesn't mean that other students would not achieve success at TJ if provided with those resources and rise to meet the challenges of its curriculum.

I'm all for taking into account multiple standardized tests/dates to alleviate the "snapshot" issue and to address a kid having a bad testing day. But there is no way that we can pretend that the lower scoring kids will have an equal chance at success at TJ. It's kind of like a PP said, the best shot that URM have may be is to have had different parents. Like being adopted by Asian parents.

Come on, the modern science is mainly developed by white scientists.
But, yes, ancient Indians created Arabic numerals. Maybe some ethical groups do have some genic advantages ? To balance this, maybe FCPS should add sports, especially basketball and football, into the admission cohort evaluation.

American Indians are helping run Microsoft, Google, IBM, Adobe, etc. What does that have to do with FCPS and TJ?

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Anonymous wrote:TJ was great for decades. It is still great. What has changed is the political climate because of right wing media and the constant use of children in culture wars- gay rights bans, transgender bathroom/sports bans, book bans, ban on teaching African American history, TJ admissions process challenges, public school funding reductions, etc etc. A certain party is trying to dismantle not only TJ but public education in general. But most parents are too stupid and too busy fighting among and forgetting the bigger picture.

This is the exact opposite of the truth.

The democrats are the party pushing culture wars. Boys allowed in girls’ school bathrooms? - Obama. 87 genders and mandatory pronouns? Democrats did that, not the republicans. “Include” violent, chair-throwing kids in every class instead of suspension, expulsion, or separate schools? Obama’s DEI did that. Discourage or ban suspensions for school violence? That was Obama’s “Dear Colleagues” letter in 2014, and the policies which followed. Whole-language and Lucy Calkins replacing phonics? Democrats again. VMPI? Democrats. Abolishing gifted and talented in NYC and Seattle? Democrats.

All of these withering blows to public education come from democrats; not republicans.

DP here.

You basically proved the point the PP made.

The polarization of what should be non-issues is exactly why TJ is a fixation for people like you. Why the GOP keeps going at it because it riles you up. It fills you with indignant righteousness that you feel you need to stand up for.

You just listed a bunch of “it’s the democrats fault” immediately instead of giving a nuanced response. Think about that for a moment. Digest why you are so angry.

If you are upset your kid didn’t get into TJ- sure, you are right to be upset. But is your kid happy now? Are they going to a good college? If this has nothing to do with your kid…. Then really digest why you are upset. Why you are so quick to retaliate against any criticism against the GOP.

Is it productive? Because as a person reading your comments- it seems really sad.

And btw- there as Asians from feeder schools getting Cs in classes too. Don’t assume that the kids getting in from feeders aren’t struggling. TJ challenges all of the kids.

First, my child has been accepted at TJ.

Second, I will continue to call out the left’s obsession with identity politics and their insistence on waging culture-wars against this great nation.

Finally, when your own family have suffered under obscene human rights abuses and virtual slavery, which were universal under the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, and you see the same socialist ideologies and attempts at cultural engineering creeping into the American politik, you might begin to understand the importance of using your Constitutional right to speak out against what the leftists are trying to do.

This is some looney toons stuff right here. Yes the USSR was an absolute nightmare, but not socialist by any means. A good education would help you learn the difference between socialist economies and socialist authoritarian govts. You might also understand that people are protecting the vulnerable and historically oppressed in this country to try not to repeat OUR humans rights abuses of the past.

So while you wring your hands over our schools trying to be more available to more people, our government is actually working to strip those availabilities away and make access less available.

So enough with the Cuba/USSR/Venezuela comparisons and "leftists" because the people moving us closer and closer to that reality by eveyr minute are on the right.
That so

What a long winded way of saying you think racism is ok if you feel guilty about slavery and jim crow

The thing about equity that reminds people of communism is the whole marxist separation of people into the oppressed and the oppressor. The focus on equality of outcome. And how this cannot be achieved without authoritarianism and statist government.

The extreme right is no better but everybody knows the extreme right poses that risk and we are all wary of it. The left thinks that their good intentions makes the authoritarianism any less dangerous.

+1