Test optional over

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Colleges can still admit students with low test scores even if they submit them!

Exactly. It doesn't mean kids who aren't great test takers won't get into college.

“Aren’t great test takers”, the foundation for academic measurement in every setting. Have you ever wondered if they “aren’t great test takers” but have a high GPA, how that occurred? Grade inflation? Retakes? Clearly it was not “test taking”. If there is one score I would use for college admissions it’s the SAT/ACT and secondarily AP scores. The amount of TO kids getting into colleges over my high stat GPA/SAT kids makes me crazy and I have every right to be.

What about writing? A kid may not test well but could be Ana amazing writer. That counts for nothing since they did normal in bubbles?

What about writing? Do you really care if the surgeon operating on your loved one is an excellent writer? Or the engineer who inspects the bridge you have to cross over every day?

Writing is thinking on paper. It’s actually not some frivolity. A doctor who can’t use words to explain a complex diagnosis is a worse doctor.

I really don't care about the doctors words if he can heal my sick child. If your kid was dying, you'd really choose the doctor who "wrote well" over the one that could save your child's life?

A large part of successful medicine is skillfully managing the patient (and family). If the patient doesn't trust their MD or doesn't do what the MD tells them to do, no amount of medical knowledge or experience will be useful. Same goes for effective communication with their team during a procedure, it’s essential.

Barring some kind of personality disorder or significant learning disability, a person with the test scores and academic ability to get into med school is going to be able to write and communicate just fine. It’s just a self-soothing fantasy to believe that there are people with “great writing skillz!!” that can make up for the lack of the raw brainpower necessary for certain professions. writing coherently actually is not that hard and everyone who gets into med school can do it.

This is incorrect, but you don’t seem very open, so I’ll just wish you well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Colleges can still admit students with low test scores even if they submit them!

Exactly. It doesn't mean kids who aren't great test takers won't get into college.

“Aren’t great test takers”, the foundation for academic measurement in every setting. Have you ever wondered if they “aren’t great test takers” but have a high GPA, how that occurred? Grade inflation? Retakes? Clearly it was not “test taking”. If there is one score I would use for college admissions it’s the SAT/ACT and secondarily AP scores. The amount of TO kids getting into colleges over my high stat GPA/SAT kids makes me crazy and I have every right to be.

What about writing? A kid may not test well but could be Ana amazing writer. That counts for nothing since they did normal in bubbles?

What about writing? Do you really care if the surgeon operating on your loved one is an excellent writer? Or the engineer who inspects the bridge you have to cross over every day?

Writing is thinking on paper. It’s actually not some frivolity. A doctor who can’t use words to explain a complex diagnosis is a worse doctor.

I really don't care about the doctors words if he can heal my sick child. If your kid was dying, you'd really choose the doctor who "wrote well" over the one that could save your child's life?

A large part of successful medicine is skillfully managing the patient (and family). If the patient doesn't trust their MD or doesn't do what the MD tells them to do, no amount of medical knowledge or experience will be useful. Same goes for effective communication with their team during a procedure, it’s essential.

Actually performing the surgery is important too. All the "skillfull management of the family" will be of no use when the patient is dead.

Which is what I said, communication with their team. Aware it’s both. Acutely aware of first one as of late with a parent that wants to stop going to a specialist as they have zero bedside manner. It’s a nightmare and getting in elsewhere would be months at best. They were turned off immediately and now it’s an uphill battle on listening to any of their suggestions.

I get it. I want my kid to live. You want your kid to die and then the doctor to write a poem about it. We're just different, is all.

I think you’re responding to two different people, and I’m not it. Now what I said at all, there was some discourse before I chimed in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Colleges can still admit students with low test scores even if they submit them!

Exactly. It doesn't mean kids who aren't great test takers won't get into college.

“Aren’t great test takers”, the foundation for academic measurement in every setting. Have you ever wondered if they “aren’t great test takers” but have a high GPA, how that occurred? Grade inflation? Retakes? Clearly it was not “test taking”. If there is one score I would use for college admissions it’s the SAT/ACT and secondarily AP scores. The amount of TO kids getting into colleges over my high stat GPA/SAT kids makes me crazy and I have every right to be.

“The system should advantage what my kids are best at, otherwise it’s unfair and dangerous”

I’m sorry the entire higher education system is not rewriting itself around your VERY SPECIAL CHILD.

You don’t “deserve” anything and neither do do they.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Colleges can still admit students with low test scores even if they submit them!

Exactly. It doesn't mean kids who aren't great test takers won't get into college.

“Aren’t great test takers”, the foundation for academic measurement in every setting. Have you ever wondered if they “aren’t great test takers” but have a high GPA, how that occurred? Grade inflation? Retakes? Clearly it was not “test taking”. If there is one score I would use for college admissions it’s the SAT/ACT and secondarily AP scores. The amount of TO kids getting into colleges over my high stat GPA/SAT kids makes me crazy and I have every right to be.

What about writing? A kid may not test well but could be Ana amazing writer. That counts for nothing since they did normal in bubbles?

What about writing? Do you really care if the surgeon operating on your loved one is an excellent writer? Or the engineer who inspects the bridge you have to cross over every day?

Writing is thinking on paper. It’s actually not some frivolity. A doctor who can’t use words to explain a complex diagnosis is a worse doctor.

I really don't care about the doctors words if he can heal my sick child. If your kid was dying, you'd really choose the doctor who "wrote well" over the one that could save your child's life?

A large part of successful medicine is skillfully managing the patient (and family). If the patient doesn't trust their MD or doesn't do what the MD tells them to do, no amount of medical knowledge or experience will be useful. Same goes for effective communication with their team during a procedure, it’s essential.

Actually performing the surgery is important too. All the "skillfull management of the family" will be of no use when the patient is dead.

Which is what I said, communication with their team. Aware it’s both. Acutely aware of first one as of late with a parent that wants to stop going to a specialist as they have zero bedside manner. It’s a nightmare and getting in elsewhere would be months at best. They were turned off immediately and now it’s an uphill battle on listening to any of their suggestions.

I get it. I want my kid to live. You want your kid to die and then the doctor to write a poem about it. We're just different, is all.

Yes, that is exactly what the PP is saying. They want their kid to die and for the doctor to write a poem about it. Your ability to parse out the nuances of what PP is saying is staggering, demonstrative of superior complex reasoning, and wholly convincing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Colleges can still admit students with low test scores even if they submit them!

Exactly. It doesn't mean kids who aren't great test takers won't get into college.

“Aren’t great test takers”, the foundation for academic measurement in every setting. Have you ever wondered if they “aren’t great test takers” but have a high GPA, how that occurred? Grade inflation? Retakes? Clearly it was not “test taking”. If there is one score I would use for college admissions it’s the SAT/ACT and secondarily AP scores. The amount of TO kids getting into colleges over my high stat GPA/SAT kids makes me crazy and I have every right to be.

What about writing? A kid may not test well but could be Ana amazing writer. That counts for nothing since they did normal in bubbles?

What about writing? Do you really care if the surgeon operating on your loved one is an excellent writer? Or the engineer who inspects the bridge you have to cross over every day?

Writing is thinking on paper. It’s actually not some frivolity. A doctor who can’t use words to explain a complex diagnosis is a worse doctor.

I really don't care about the doctors words if he can heal my sick child. If your kid was dying, you'd really choose the doctor who "wrote well" over the one that could save your child's life?

This is a false choice

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Please tell me if I am reading this Valentine's Day letter from the US Department of Education correctly:

https://www.ed.gov/media/document/dear-colleague-letter-sffa-v-harvard-109506.pdf

Test-optional is over?

Also, it says the universities have 14 days to comply. How will this affect the current admissions cycle?

For selective schools, yes. Starting next year, it will be over.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Well it says IF a college uses test option IN ORDER TO achieve racial balance. But there are a lot of reasons to go test optional that have nothing to do with racial balance. Some colleges simply don’t believe they are strong indicators of a student’s ability.

These are not the games you want to play as an institution. Despite everyone claiming that practice schools don't need federal funding, recent weeks have shown that it is obvious that they do

[Anonymous]

Extreme overreach in one direction invites extreme overreach in the other.

Colleges brought this on themselves.

When you get caught bluffing you don't double down you folks but last year's admissions stats show that several schools doubled down.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Well it says IF a college uses test option IN ORDER TO achieve racial balance. But there are a lot of reasons to go test optional that have nothing to do with racial balance. Some colleges simply don’t believe they are strong indicators of a student’s ability.

Nobody is going to risk that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If they’re TO they haven’t eliminated standardized testing.

Play stupid games and you win stupid prizes

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Extreme overreach in one direction invites extreme overreach in the other.

Colleges brought this on themselves.

When you get caught bluffing you don't double down you folks but last year's admissions stats show that several schools doubled down.

You dont know this. You assume so because the makeup is what you expected/wanted it to be. So you assume 'cheating'. Doesn't make it so. Change the inputs you get a different output. You have no idea what the inputs were so cant model an output.

[Anonymous]

Test Optional will continue for most colleges.

[Anonymous]

I predict this sends some schools in the direction of the UCs. Why risk ever admitting someone with a lower score over a higher score? If you don’t think the score is the most important factor, best not to know anything about scores at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Will they get rid of legacy admissions as a proxy for selecting wealthy white students?

Well since the demographics attending college have changed significantly over the last 20 years, wouldn’t legacy benefit all races now? This isn’t the 1980s where legacy exclusively means wealthy Caucasian anymore.

I am very anti affirmative action but honestly legacy is just as bad, just not illegal (yet).

The racial distribution of legacies is overwhelmingly white. 70% of Harvard legacy students are white. Legacy is more predictive of race than questbridge or poverty.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well it says IF a college uses test option IN ORDER TO achieve racial balance. But there are a lot of reasons to go test optional that have nothing to do with racial balance. Some colleges simply don’t believe they are strong indicators of a student’s ability.

Nobody is going to risk that.

It's not a risk. Socio-economic balance. Simple. Its well understood test scores correlate with wealth. TO for FGLI considerations. Done.