Ten-year-old boys -- mind blown

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:This rising 4th grade class is an absolute disaster. They missed fundamental social and behavioral development due to the pandemic and having spent their kindergarten year on computers and 1st grade in masks, at least around here. I’m making no statement about the decisions made at that time but this group of kids is absolutely stunted in their development and their behavior reflect that.

My parents never went to pre-school or kindergarten and yet were raised with firm boundaries. Stop blaming this on lack of socialization.

No, I agree with the PP you replied to. It’s different to not go to preschool or kindergarten but to be getting attention from parents, responsibilities, and to be amidst neighbors and a community every day. That in itself creates socialization and boundaries- socialization isn’t just “having playdates”.

My dad is quite elderly and started school in 1st grade because kindergarten was not yet compulsory. He was fine, but he was also raised on a block with neighbors who were around all day, clear expectations from adults, a parent who took care of him during the day (vs being in another room on a computer), outdoor time, and zero screens.

My rising 4th grader has a bunch of classmates whose parents either were working in another room 10 hours/day while they were left literally and figuratively to their own devices, or classmates whose parents were supposedly present but sitting in a backyard getting drunk by a firepit with their “pod” while the kids interacted with zero outsiders, strangers or authority figures. I hope it will improve over time but as I see them now, these kids are not going to get better- only more disregulated and feral.

This right here is the problem. Parents didn’t parent during the pandemic and those were crucial development years for kids around 9-11 years old now. There is no fixing it, kids brains are wired at this point.

Kids' brains are not wired beyond repair in 4th grade, geez. My older kid is this age and yeah, it was a really rough year, but he's certainly learning. Third grade was the year we really started to set higher standards for cleaning up after himself, and we've had to set very specific and routine screen time limits because his younger sibling is a little too obsessed. We also really have to repeat and reinforce basic manners like holding the door for others, not talking while your mouth is full, looking at someone when you're talking to them, etc. But I don't blame covid, I think this stuff isn't actually natural, it's taught and we need to teach it.

Agree. In my experience it requires a lot of repetition and these kind of posts make me worried, because my son is definitely not perfect yet though I would hope he wouldn't do the things mentioned. He does take his plate and put it in the dishwasher after all meals but still requires reminders and I'm not certain he would remember at someone else's house when he is out of routine. In my experience also some kids are easier to teach these things than others. My older son has ADHD and the amount of repetition he needs is INTENSE. and insert a little stimulation with friends and it can go quickly out the window. My younger son has been easier to teach these things from the beginning. He is just has a milder temperament and doesn't have the ADHD making it a little tougher for him. My older son will get there, but he is definitely not perfect at people's houses. We prep him every single time and talk through scenarios like this, remind him the answer is OKAY when a parent gives a direction. But I'm sure he's an a-hole sometimes. Mostly parents have said he was great but I'm sure there are moments.

My kid is a year older and same. I know how hard we work on this stuff, but I was still surprised when his friend's dad told me my son was always very well mannered at their house. Because I have no doubt that at other times, he gets wound up and behaves badly.

The flip side is that when my son's friends are at our place, they've done things similar to what OP is complaining about. And these are kids whose parents I know well, and I know it's not behavior they allow or overlook. They're very good about saying please and thank you, and they also sometimes sneak snacks from the storage closet and leave wrappers in the sofa cushions. I have no problem correcting on their parents' behalf.

I'm the pp and same. We are with the families of many of the kids my older son spends time with regularly and I see their parents correcting on all the same things. When a kid does something at my house, I don't assume the parent lets that go at their house. Usually I know they are working on it too and the kid is out of routine, overstimulated, and with buddies. Some kids act better with others, some the opposite.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:School was closed for 3 months in the 2019-2020 school year, kids were phased in for hybrid learning fall 2020, then paused for a surge, then back in spring 2021 and full time ever since. The kids this age have spent the majority of their elementary years IN SCHOOL, it does not make sense to attribute behaviors, etc to a time period of under one calendar year of online learning that was 4 years ago. It really does not. This is a parenting, lack of community, screens and societal norms issue.

yes it absolutely does make sense. the school closure and slow return to normal life changed school and parenting practices for a lot longer than a few months.

Continuing to blame that one year takes away any agency to right the ship. So just saying “oh well this generation is cooked because that year of school that was disrupted” is basically everyone throwing their hands up as if there’s just nothing else to be done anymore!

Contiuing to deny it as one factor is just showing you are politically motivated.

No? I am a teacher. I taught in schools that year and advocated for students to be phased back in appropriately by need. But THAT ONE YEAR does not explain the VAST issues that an entire cohort of kids are experimenting and the shifting attitudes I see among parents as a whole. We are ignoring bigger, more pervasive problems if we say “it was Covid year!” Time to look at what else is going on because that one year cannot explain what is happening in schools - a microcosm of which OP is experiencing in her home among her kids’ peers.

[Anonymous]

Teacher here. These behaviors existed before Covid. Since then, they’ve e gotten worse. I wish parents had to take a course before having kids. Every parent conference I have ends up boiling down to a lack of knowledge about how to effectively parent.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Gentle parenting IS the problem because it’s nearly impossible to do correctly. When are we going to admit this as a society? It’s like all the communism apologists who insist that the Soviet Union and Mao’s China weren’t really communism because they were corrupt and doing it wrong and communism could still work if done perfectly. Maybe systems that are too difficult for average people to reliably execute are not good.

Gentle parenting requires perfect parental emotional regulation, patience, and time. You aren’t ever allowed to raise your voice or get mad. You have zero in the moment strategies for dealing with bad behavior (it’s all about meeting your kids emotional needs so allegedly they won’t act out). And because you can’t be harsh you have to repeat yourself and your boundaries 1000x and physically force little kids to do things when they refuse because you have no other recourse (no yelling, no time out, no punishment, no shaming). It’s EXHAUSTING. Why on earth do we think it’s realistic to expect this won’t just devolve into resentful, permissive parenting for most?

So you dont know what gentle parenting is... thats what you just admitted.

Janet Lansbury calls it “confident moment”. When kid flat out refuses to put shoes on, she advocates saying something like, “I see you’re having trouble putting your shoes on.” Then putting the shoes on for the kid. That is literally exactly what gentle parenting tells you to do: kid refuses, you physically “help” them do the thing. You can also allow “natural consequence” which is actually parent punishment, because it involves letting bad things happen to kids that ultimately inconvenience parents.

I absolutely do know what gentle parenting is. I’ve read all the Lansbury, watched and subscribed to all the Dr. Becky. And you know what? If that’s not enough to understand and implement gentle parenting, then you have proved my point that it’s a terrible system because regular parents without a PhD in development can’t implement it!

So there are in the moment strategies provided which is not what you stated and nowhere do you have to repeat yourself 1000x. You just showed how you dont have to repeat yourself.

And there's plenty of advice about what to do when raising your voice or getting mad because no one is perfect. There's entire sections on repair.

IMO you just contradicted yourself from your original post.

[Anonymous]

I always invite the parents too and provide lunch for every one.

Kids are well behaved if their parents are there.

I make it clear that if a kid is too tired, cranky and overstimulated at the party, then it is a great idea that the parents can take them home, so the kid does not have a meltdown. Do it once, and no kid misbehaves at your house. You should not be in-charge of disciplining the kid.

However, you don't have to make the kids wait while you are doing the dishes. They will get antsy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My 10yo is rising 6th too. He is not like this.

And while I do believe he's a mature kid, a lot of this is parenting. We have pretty high expectations when it comes to basic manners and responsibilities.

would guess your kid(s) are neurotypical. It would be easy, if we'd only had Kid 1, to think that Kid 1's excellent manners and executive function stemmed from our excellent instructions and modeling as parents. Kid 2, with ADHD, allows me to understand that, as someone said above, a lot of repetition is needed to bring about even 50% of follow-through. It's almost like spelling: all kids need some instruction. Some kids need a week on it and they've got the words down. Some kids don't get enough instruction and can't spell well. Some will get a ton of instruction and will still grow into adults who can't differentiate reliably between there, their, and they're. Our operating systems make a difference. Even as you keep high expectations for yourself, your kid(s), and their peers, I hope you can extend compassion to kids and families with different operating systems.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I always invite the parents too and provide lunch for every one.

Kids are well behaved if their parents are there.

I make it clear that if a kid is too tired, cranky and overstimulated at the party, then it is a great idea that the parents can take them home, so the kid does not have a meltdown. Do it once, and no kid misbehaves at your house. You should not be in-charge of disciplining the kid.

However, you don't have to make the kids wait while you are doing the dishes. They will get antsy.

Actually, I was sticking the dishes in the dishwasher so the KITCHEN didn't get antsy. It's an ant-prone kitchen.

And sure, the kids can get antsy waiting to go to an activity; I get it. But even when I clarified that it would just be a moment, he asked for the iPad. It made me sad that he felt like he needed it so badly while sitting at the kitchen table.

[Anonymous]

Hmmm not understanding why they can't watch a Funny or Die video while you wash dishes? Isn't this a party?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I always invite the parents too and provide lunch for every one.

Kids are well behaved if their parents are there.

I make it clear that if a kid is too tired, cranky and overstimulated at the party, then it is a great idea that the parents can take them home, so the kid does not have a meltdown. Do it once, and no kid misbehaves at your house. You should not be in-charge of disciplining the kid.

However, you don't have to make the kids wait while you are doing the dishes. They will get antsy.

Actually, I was sticking the dishes in the dishwasher so the KITCHEN didn't get antsy. It's an ant-prone kitchen.

And sure, the kids can get antsy waiting to go to an activity; I get it. But even when I clarified that it would just be a moment, he asked for the iPad. It made me sad that he felt like he needed it so badly while sitting at the kitchen table.

There’s no problematic behavior there. You’re just being judgmental and fishing for compliments on your allegedly superior parenting skills (the implication being that your precious angel would never ask for an ipad).

Also consider that maybe you have raised a child so boring that even during a playdate his friends would rather be on screens than engage with him? I know that’s harsh, but since you’re judging these other perfectly normal sounding boys so harshly I think it’s worth considering that maybe your kid is part of the problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I always invite the parents too and provide lunch for every one.

Kids are well behaved if their parents are there.

I make it clear that if a kid is too tired, cranky and overstimulated at the party, then it is a great idea that the parents can take them home, so the kid does not have a meltdown. Do it once, and no kid misbehaves at your house. You should not be in-charge of disciplining the kid.

However, you don't have to make the kids wait while you are doing the dishes. They will get antsy.

Actually, I was sticking the dishes in the dishwasher so the KITCHEN didn't get antsy. It's an ant-prone kitchen.

And sure, the kids can get antsy waiting to go to an activity; I get it. But even when I clarified that it would just be a moment, he asked for the iPad. It made me sad that he felt like he needed it so badly while sitting at the kitchen table.

There’s no problematic behavior there. You’re just being judgmental and fishing for compliments on your allegedly superior parenting skills (the implication being that your precious angel would never ask for an ipad).

Also consider that maybe you have raised a child so boring that even during a playdate his friends would rather be on screens than engage with him? I know that’s harsh, but since you’re judging these other perfectly normal sounding boys so harshly I think it’s worth considering that maybe your kid is part of the problem.

Weird response. If the kid is boring, wouldn’t the other kids just tell their parents that and decline the play date? Less work for everyone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I always invite the parents too and provide lunch for every one.

Kids are well behaved if their parents are there.

I make it clear that if a kid is too tired, cranky and overstimulated at the party, then it is a great idea that the parents can take them home, so the kid does not have a meltdown. Do it once, and no kid misbehaves at your house. You should not be in-charge of disciplining the kid.

However, you don't have to make the kids wait while you are doing the dishes. They will get antsy.

Actually, I was sticking the dishes in the dishwasher so the KITCHEN didn't get antsy. It's an ant-prone kitchen.

And sure, the kids can get antsy waiting to go to an activity; I get it. But even when I clarified that it would just be a moment, he asked for the iPad. It made me sad that he felt like he needed it so badly while sitting at the kitchen table.

There’s no problematic behavior there. You’re just being judgmental and fishing for compliments on your allegedly superior parenting skills (the implication being that your precious angel would never ask for an ipad).

Also consider that maybe you have raised a child so boring that even during a playdate his friends would rather be on screens than engage with him? I know that’s harsh, but since you’re judging these other perfectly normal sounding boys so harshly I think it’s worth considering that maybe your kid is part of the problem.

Weird response. If the kid is boring, wouldn’t the other kids just tell their parents that and decline the play date? Less work for everyone.

Obviously they didn’t realize how boring he is until they got there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:School was closed for 3 months in the 2019-2020 school year, kids were phased in for hybrid learning fall 2020, then paused for a surge, then back in spring 2021 and full time ever since. The kids this age have spent the majority of their elementary years IN SCHOOL, it does not make sense to attribute behaviors, etc to a time period of under one calendar year of online learning that was 4 years ago. It really does not. This is a parenting, lack of community, screens and societal norms issue.

I don’t know about effects, but I will say my kid missed preschool March 2020 - August 2020, was then fully virtual September 2020 - March 2021, finally hybrid (2 days/week in person) April 2021 - June 2021.

Then even once back in person for the 2021-22 school year he was masked, which apparently mine was defunct for hating because so many others claim their kids “thrived” in a mask, and absent for extended chunks of time due to quarantining and awaiting PCR testing for every minor illness. Not to mention many extracurriculars were not fully back up and running, and many families were not yet doing play dates again. So let’s not pretend like all the kids were back to hybrid as of fall 2020 with a few small bumps along the way. Of the 4 years mine has spent in elementary school only 2 years of those were fully normal.

My family is lucky because we bubbled with other families and hired a pod tutor. My kid is doing great, testing way ahead of grade, and is overall still pretty respectful and helpful. But I’m not going to gloss over the fact that this was not the reality for many kids during some critical years. And all along the way parents of this age group got guilt and blame for wanting any supports while trying to educate kids and keep their jobs, and now are continuing to be told they are on their own to blame.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:School was closed for 3 months in the 2019-2020 school year, kids were phased in for hybrid learning fall 2020, then paused for a surge, then back in spring 2021 and full time ever since. The kids this age have spent the majority of their elementary years IN SCHOOL, it does not make sense to attribute behaviors, etc to a time period of under one calendar year of online learning that was 4 years ago. It really does not. This is a parenting, lack of community, screens and societal norms issue.

I don’t know about effects, but I will say my kid missed preschool March 2020 - August 2020, was then fully virtual September 2020 - March 2021, finally hybrid (2 days/week in person) April 2021 - June 2021.

Then even once back in person for the 2021-22 school year he was masked, which apparently mine was defunct for hating because so many others claim their kids “thrived” in a mask, and absent for extended chunks of time due to quarantining and awaiting PCR testing for every minor illness. Not to mention many extracurriculars were not fully back up and running, and many families were not yet doing play dates again. So let’s not pretend like all the kids were back to hybrid as of fall 2020 with a few small bumps along the way. Of the 4 years mine has spent in elementary school only 2 years of those were fully normal.

My family is lucky because we bubbled with other families and hired a pod tutor. My kid is doing great, testing way ahead of grade, and is overall still pretty respectful and helpful. But I’m not going to gloss over the fact that this was not the reality for many kids during some critical years. And all along the way parents of this age group got guilt and blame for wanting any supports while trying to educate kids and keep their jobs, and now are continuing to be told they are on their own to blame.

Yeah, everyone’s experience of the pandemic was a little different. My kid was fully home from school (we chose to homeschool rather than engage in virtual school so it wasn’t screens/virtual as I was his teacher but still he wasn’t in a regular school setting) from March 2020 when he was in 4k preschool-September 2021 when he started 1st grade in person. The last few months of preschool and all of kindergarten was homeschool. In our district, hybrid in person school was not even an option in our public elementary until February 2021. So not ALL kids went hybrid in fall of 2020. That wasn’t an option for us unless we had moved or done private school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There's a mix here.

- Not bringing dishes to the sink is a different expectation in every household. I wouldn't expect kids outside of my household to automatically do what we do. If they didn't do it after I asked them, then that's rude.

- Bad behavior during a birthday party. I wouldn't use this as an example of anything. Birthday parties are just too much stimulation. Expecting young guests to sit while you do the dishes? Really, OP. C'mon. Expecting all the guests to bring their plates in or put back toys is also not party behavior. Manage your expectations. If this happened during a play date, you can have clean up time for 15 minutes at the end. But kids do not clean up as they go.

- Grabbing gum and leaving wrappers. Okay, very rude. But if this happened during a party, again, let it go.

+1

Also, I have to remind my 11 year old son to take his plate to the sink literally every single meal. Don't know why this is so hard to remember, but it somehow is. He'll do it, but he never remembers on his own.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A 10 yo shouldn't be a rising 4th grader. My 10 yo is a rising 6th grader, but most are going into 5th.

If he's treated younger than his age all the time and with a younger cohort, then you will have to expect him to act younger than his age.

I have a rising fourth grader who will turn 10 a month after school starts. Completely normal and most of his classmates are in the same age range within a few months.