Shah's of Sunset-thoughts?
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Anonymous
Okay I viewed the first one. I know you warned me that it's bloody. I could have taken that. What I could not take is the picture of the woman hitting what appeared to be a three year old boy on the head and seeing his bloody head and face. I wasn't warned about that and it upset me greatly. It's one thing to commit self flagellation in the same of your religious interpretation but another to have it be done by an adult to a very young child. I understand it's an important day of mourning in the Shi'ite sect but sorry my feeling is that this just goes too too far. There are not many in the international community I think that would find this acceptable or tolerable, even for the sake of diplomacy. I could not finish reading the article or view the second link because I was too upset!!! |
Anonymous
This is so interesting. Do some Iranians classify or choose Bi-racial? or Asian? If not White and I suppose not Black either. Would you say non-White Caucasian is an ok term to use? |
Anonymous
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As another PP who is married to an Iranian, I'd like to know why you seem so ANGRY. You seem to really have a chip on your shoulder towards the Iranian culture. Why do you care so much about what they call themselves?? Who cares!
I'm married to an Iranian, and I've certainly met Iranians of all types over the years. I can honestly say that the vast majority of the Iranians I'm lucky to call my friends are some of the most highly educated, introspective and KIND people I've ever known. They're well-traveled, open to different cultures and religions, and full of life. Every single one is disgusted over what's happened in their country politically. For anyone who's interested in learning how Iran came to be in the situation it's in today, I highly recommend the book "All the Shah's Men". http://www.amazon.com/All-Shahs-Men-American-Middle/dp/0471265179. I also recommend a fantastic movie: "Peresepolis": http://www.sonyclassics.com/persepolis/ As far as the plastic surgery comments above, I'd just like to point out that the U.S. is by FAR the country with the highest rate of plastic surgery. Brazil follows. |
Anonymous
| I thought Brazil was #1 for plastic surgery because the government picks up the tab. |
Anonymous
I don't want to make to long post, but it is important to realize that Iran and the Iranian society is very different from what is portrayed in media. Iranians are mostly very secular, some ethnic groups within Iran (as for example Persian Jews, Persian Christians) have close ties to their religion because it is tightly woven into the fabric of their cultural identity. The revolution that happened in Iran was not really suppose to be meant as a Islamic revolution. This actually started in 1951 when Iran had complete and fully democratic elected government. The elected primer of Iran, Mr. Mossadegh wanted to push trough many social reforms, he wanted to limit the Shahs (Emperor) political power and he wanted to nationalize the oil. Back then the Iranian oil industry was controlled by the Anglo-Persian oil company (you might know it as BP now), this company dominated oil production out of the middle east. This oil company was run by the British despite Iran being a sovereign country, and Iran had either live with that or face war. But the premier managed to push through reforms with support of the people, but people did question his socialist tendencies. CIA carried out a coup'de'tat and overthrow the government of primer Mossadegh. Mainly because they feared Iranian oil ending up in the hands of a Soviet friendly government. The Emperor had all his powers reinstalled and Iran became a close ally of the USA during most of the cold war. During the Shahs time Iran had many liberties and as someone who visited western countries during that time I can say that Iran was in pace with them. Unfortunately, the USA fueled the Iranian military and secret service with the same fetar and paranoia for socialism as we seen in the USA. The Iranian secret service, SAVAK, became obsessed with chasing down and arresting anyone suspected to have communist/socialist ties. It went so far as to have people screened when they joined the Air force or applied for a government job to ensure they did not have ancestral ties to Russia. This all while the Iranian political scene was seeing more and more socialist parties, this was the 70s, socialist, liberal parties was the new cool thing for all the kids  So the way the secret service treated these young folks caused the reform groups to grow stronger, the reform groups wanted to push through social reforms and convert Iran to a constitutional monarchy or even a republic. The opposition was composed of many different political parties, the Islamist where a minor one, they kinda became the spiritual leaders. Hard to believe know, but back then a lot of what they said made sense, and they always ensured people that government and "church" should be separated. However, the reform morphed into a revolution and the Islamist groups hijacked it (as they are so good at it). And it turned out to be one of the bloodiest revolutions in modern times, they systematically dismantled the countries leadership and the Imperial armed forces in record time without any resistance. And then they turned on the other political factions of the revolution, including the socialist parties. And at the same time they pushed through their reforms, like their modesty rules for women. Iranian women almost literally went from miniskirts to chadors overnight. The Islamist started to see a strong opposition formed against them, people had not voted for them and did not support their reforms. But at the same time Saddam saw his opportunity to attack Iran, which had bullied him into some territorial gains in the Persian Gulf years before. Since the new regime in Iran were pretty much nutcases all the western countries and USSR supported and supplied Saddam. Iranians who opposed the new regime now had to go to the front to defend their country, and it was long and costly war because it took a long time for us and are armed forced to recover from the damage the revolution had caused. This gave the regime time to settle, in fact they deliberate delayed the end of war. Immediately after the war people where to tired to oppose them, but the opposition has grown and come out in millions against the regime. The Islamic reforms they pushed through as backfired on them in every way possible. What is most noticeable is how Muslim Iranians outlook on religion has changed, many have gone from secular to anti-Islamic, and people are converting to Irans pre-islamic religion, Zoroastrianism, or to Christianity (which is giving Iranian Zoroastrianism/Christians a bit of unwanted attention from the regime). This is because for many Iranians the regime has been to pro-Arabism and anti-Iranian, and a lot of this is rooted in Iranian pride in their history, language and pre-islamic heritage and because Islamic invasion of Iran was very bloody and prolonged. There has always been some resentment towards Islam/Arabs, so with all the nastiness this regime has done it has kinda backfired on Islam in Iran in a big way.
That all being said, I saw the show, I did not think it so bad. I mean after 30 years as being portrayed as terrorist overlords I'll take shallow and materialistic any day. Besides, the show does show one thing, how Iranians no-matter if they are Zoroastrians, Bahia Christians, Muslim, Jewish, Sufis or just atheist are bound together by their Iranian roots and have always lived in Peace. That's not something you see everyday in media. Remember that several revived sites in both Christianity (Church of St. Mary, second oldest church in the world)and Judaism (tomb of Esther and Mordechai) are in Iran and the Zoroastrianism which influenced all 3 big religions is from Iran. |
Anonymous
23:23 here, I want to know because I want to be informed. There is a lot of incorrect information on the internet, so why not ask someone posting that is informed on this topic? I come from an area that people were either white or black and we were never taught that Asian meant more than simply Chinese. I want to teach my own children more about the world and its people. I would have simply classified all Iranians as White prior to this post had I not known that this is incorrect. When you come from being taught that anyone who is not black is white it helps to increase your knowledge on race. |
Anonymous
My Iranian (persian) husband says he's asian, because Iran competes in the Asian Cup in soccer.
But seriously, he checks the "white/ non-hispanic" box. |
Anonymous
Sorry, my post was directed at the PP who claims to be married to the "half-Iranian", not you. |
Anonymous
This is so stupid...when did this become a discussion about Iranians being White/Caucasian or not. Are all Americans white? I am Iranian, the Persian kind , light skinned and I usually put down "Other" if it says White and if its Caucasian I'll mark that instead. My mom is borderline albino-looking and she does the same. For me white means European descent, which I don't have, and Caucasian means from the Caucasus region which is where most of Iran is.
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Anonymous
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Okay I viewed the first one. I know you warned me that it's bloody. I could have taken that. What I could not take is the picture of the woman hitting what appeared to be a three year old boy on the head and seeing his bloody head and face. I wasn't warned about that and it upset me greatly. It's one thing to commit self flagellation in the same of your religious interpretation but another to have it be done by an adult to a very young child. I understand it's an important day of mourning in the Shi'ite sect but sorry my feeling is that this just goes too too far. There are not many in the international community I think that would find this acceptable or tolerable, even for the sake of diplomacy. I could not finish reading the article or view the second link because I was too upset!!! Haven't seen the video, but the woman hitting the child is not acceptable. I'm a Shia Muslim, not Iranian, but Indian and some people in my community do practice self flagellation (the men), but never a child, and it's never forced. I do have to admit that I am not a fan of it. There are several mosques that I attend. One is run by Iranians, and another by Indians. The Iranian one does not allow this, but the Indian one does on Ashura. |
Anonymous
I'm the one you are referring to. You know, my husband and I were up late tonight just talking about various things and I began to tell him about this thread. I told him about your post and other posts on here. He was so put off that he asked me if I would consider not writing on this thread anymore. I think like many people from different countries, they are highly sensitive and defensive about anything negative said about their country or their people. But if all anyone does is talk about how great their culture is, how great their people are, it becomes hard to discern the truth and truly learn about that culture or it's people. It would be better if people of that country were more objective and more forthcoming. The public becomes more educated and in many cases may also become more understanding. For example, I heard on NPR once that Iranians have great pride because ancient Persia was once such a vast and powerful civilization. They aren't anymore, but they don't want that to ever be forgotten by the international community. As such, one guest on NPR said it would be unwise to use tough tactics in dealing Iran and instead suggested that the U.S. use a diplomatic approach that paid respect to their history to effect change with Iran. The other poster that wrote that the reason women get so much plastic surgery in Iran (particularly nose jobs) is because of the modesty laws requiring women to cover everything except their face, makes me sympathize with the women living there rather than perceive them as superficial, western-white-caucasian wannabe's. When I questioned the visitor from Iran about the oppressive laws against homosexuals and adulterous women, it seemed as if she wanted to answer me but could not (perhaps due to government monitoring of internet activity?). It made me sympathize with her rather than than perceive her to be a supporter of such oppressive laws. So by asking such questions and getting more honest answers, I, too, am becoming more informed. As far as the bigot is concerned and other offensive replies, they won't change my opinion. So you're only right in one sense - both my half Iranian husband and I have a few things we are angry about with the Iranian culture, laws, and behavior at times. I don't like the way they treat homosexuals, adulterous women, and how Ashura is observed with the self flagellation. Why did the government have to ban self flagellation? Presumably because if they didn't, it would continue and people would injure themselves or their children too much. I don't like how oppressive the modesty laws are for women. I don't like how so many Iranians want the world to believe they are white caucasian and strive for that western appearance (as evidenced by the kind of nose jobs they get). Iranians are generally quite successful and intelligent people TODAY. So still not understanding why the need to perpetually remind the world that they descended from the powerful Persian civilization from years past. AND do we have people who hate homosexuals here in the U.S. or people who get plastic surgery? Yes, but our laws don't condone oppressing them or punishing them. And the plastic surgery is something Iranian women still do here in the U.S. where there are no modesty laws oppressing them. So I wonder if there is a dislike for one's own ethnic features, which is sad. It means western influence has a profound effect on the way people of other cultures feel about themselves. Just being objective and honest would be more educational and informative for us than to only talk about all the positives of the culture. |
Anonymous
But he was not a superficial man. Bijan designed seasonal collections for the most powerful men in the world. He was an extraordinary Man! A connoisseur of quality, perfection and universal design excellence, Bijan was a genius marketer of perception and image for his men’s couture, haute jewelry and a spectrum of award-winning fragrances. His lofty eminence and multi-billion dollar empire as the peerless purveyor of elegance and affluence, was uniquely forged in 1976 on Rodeo Drive in Beverly Hills, by just three words, ‘by appointment only’, offering him unprecedented access to the greatest wealth in the world. He was a treasure of enormous admiration and remarkable creative brilliance. Do YOU HAVE ENOUGH TIME TO READ A LIST HIS AWARDS & HONORS? AWARDS & HONORS: Entrepreneur of the Year Award, Oxford University – 2011 Governor’s Award for Excellence in Fashion – 2010 Key to the City of Beverly Hills – 2010 May 8th declared as “Bijan Day,” City of Beverly Hills – 2010 Design Legend Award, OTIS College of Art & Design – 2010 Life Time Achievement Award, International Organization PAAIA – 2009 Honorary Black Belt Certification, US Martial Arts Federation – 2009 Leadership Honor Roll, George H.W. Bush – 2009 Honorary Doctorate Degree Fine Arts and Science Award, American Liberty University – Class of 2007 Honorary Creative Director Bijan Pakzad, Rolls-Royce Motor Cars – 2007 2006 Hall of Fame, VANITY FAIR Magazine Persian Man of the Year Award , Persian Award Foundation Canada – 2006 International Packaging Award Finalist for Best Packaging of Bijan with a Twist, HBA Global Expo – 2002 Best Fragrance of the Year Nomination for Bijan with a Twist for Women and Men, The Fragrance Foundation – 2001 Best Fragrance of the Year Nomination for Michael Jordan Cologne, The Fragrance Foundation – 1999 Fragrance of the Year Nominations for DNA Perfume for Women & DNA Fragrance for Men, The Fragrance Foundation – 1996 Creativity Award, Art Direction Magazine – 1995 Ig Noble Prize for DNA Fragrance by Bijan, Harvard University – 1995 Creativity Award , Art Direction Magazine – 1994 Pursuit of Excellence Award for Bijan Fragrances, Bullock’s – 1994 Distinguished Citizen Award of Liberty Bowl, City of Philadelphia – 1993 Creativity Award, Art Direction Magazine – 1993 Aesthetic Appreciation Award for Bijan Designer for Men, City of Los Angeles – 1993 Best Advertising Campaign, Clio Award – 1993 Best Glass Design, Steuben Clear Choice Award – 1993 Creativity Award , Art Direction Magazine – 1992 Best Men’s Fragrance, Harper ’s Bazaar Germany – 1992 Prix de Beaute Award, Art Direction Magazine – 1991 Best Outdoor Advertising , Obie Award – 1991 Best Advertising Campaign, Clio Award – 1990 Creativity Award , Art Direction Magazine – 1990 Best Outdoor Advertising , Obie Award – 1989 Best Advertising Campaign , Clio Award – 1988 Outstanding Achievement Award Mastery of Apparel Design, Marketing & Merchandizing from the School of Human Sciences, Auburn University – 1988 The International Best Dressed List, Bijan Pakzad – 1989 Legend in American Excellence Award for Bijan Fragrances, Saks Fifth Avenue – 1987 Creativity Award, Art Direction Magazine – 1987 Best Packaging Design for Bijan Perfume for Women, The Fragrance Foundation – 1987 Best Packaging Design Nomination for Bijan Fragrance for Men, The Fragrance Foundation – 1987 Fragrance of the Year for Bijan Fragrance for Men, The Fragrance Foundation – 1987 Creativity Award, Art Direction Magazine – 1986 Creativity Award, Art Direction Magazine – 1984 Excellence in Photography Award, American Photography Magazine – 1984 Creativity Award, Art Direction Magazine – 1983 Honorary Citizens Award, City of Florence, Italy – 1983 Creativity Award, Art Direction Magazine – 1982 Honorary Citizens Award, City of Dallas, Texas – 1982 Creativity Award, Art Direction Magazine – 1981 Creativity Award, Art Direction Magazine – 1980 |
Anonymous
Are you suffering from a affective disorder? You accuse Iranians of being too proud and then you say they betray their culture and ethnicity by trying to mimic westerns. First you said that Persian's are extinct, multiple Iranians pointed out your error. You even got a detailed account over how they in-fact exist and together make up to largest ethnic group and how Persian culture dominates Iran and influenced many other surrounding countries. For example Persian is the official language in Iran and spoken in many neighboring countries (except the Arabic ones) and Persian rituals such as Nowruz (Persian New Year) is celebrated in many countries in Asia and some parts of Europe. Btw, another name for the indo-european languages is indo-iranian. But again, according to you the vast Persian Empire doesn't exist anymore so they can't exist in any form or shape, neither ethnically or culturally. You also talked about about "arab Islam" being better compared to the "Iranian" version, who allows stoning of adulterers and perform self-flagellation. Really arab Islam is better? So I guess Saudi is better where just a few months ago a man was decapitated in a public square because he was accused and convicted for sorcery/witchcraft?! Saudi Arabia, the only country where females are forbidden to drive a car by law? Or Pakistan (a non-arab country with the arab version of Islam) which forces the rape victims to marry their offenders? Not to mention the fact that self-flagellation during Ashura in Iran has very few participants and mostly a show of force for the regime and usually just consists of ceremonial chest-hitting with their open hand. Maybe you are sunni muslim arab that loves your religion, but I have news for you, all 3 big religions suck, what you think circumcision is not abuse? and not to mention the barbaric female form that occurs in many arab-Islamic countries. Islam is a particular sinister religion. So suck on that. Than you questioned their ethnicity because most Iranians say they are Caucasian, and as seen here lots say they are Caucasian but do not identify themselves as white in the same manner as Europeans. I don't know what motivates your hate, but it's a fact that most Iranians are Caucasian, and the majority is not Semitic. It's not a preference, it's a fact, people of the Caucasus region are from a area between Armenia, Georgia, Turkey, Iran and down to the Caspian sea which is part of Iran (that's the area called Caucasus!). But you seem to confuse this with skin color. Why do you hate the fact that Iranian women perform beauty surgeries, and what makes you think they make themselves look more "white"? More importantly this is insight on how diluted your outlook on the world is, you actually justify your twisted logic because you feel "pity for them". You are the only one who has been putting this drivel out. Surgeries are popular, but you seem to say that all Iranian women undergo surgery because all of them have stereotypical big noses. Also, according to you any surgery where they would strive for a "smaller" nose means they are ashamed of their ethnicity. I just spelled out everything you said, it's so unintelligent that I don't need to comment it any further. Iranian women are far more integrated into society than many other countries, even under the Islamic dictatorship, over 70% of our university students are females. Iran has among the highest female to male ratio in higher level education, while for example USA ranks in about 60th. Iranian women are independent, educated and intelligent, and once this regime is gone they can be even more successful. I have no problem with some of them also taking time to pursue more "superficial" activities. You seem to confuse the laws imposed by the regime, which is a dictatorship, with the Iranian people. Despite the fact that many posters have repeatedly politely asked you to make the distinction. The barbaric punishments such as hanging or death if you convert from Islam are imposed by the regime, and the most barbaric ones such as stoning did not exist until 1983, and handed out very rarely and even they have now agree to remove it from legislation now. A small victory for human rights lawyers in Iran. But in Arab Islam countries and non-arab countries that follow "arabic islam", as you put it, decapitation for stuff like sorcery occurs and stoning happens by mobs, and doesn't even need to be handed out as court punishment. You called several people bigoted but you self make bigoted remarks repeatedly.Instead of realizing that changes such as banning stoning (even if not used) or limit on flagellation (which mostly payed supporters of the regime perfom) are the small fruits of the hard labor Iranian human rights/international law lawyers have pushed through (such as noble-prize winner Ms. Shirin Ebadi) you just assume these are initiatives the Iranian regime has put forth to protect the barbaric Iranians from themselves. It's true that homosexuality is still taboo among regular Iranians, but again, not to the same degree as in Arabic countries. Gays exist in Iran, in what I would say in their own sub-culture, most inside and outside Iran usually accepted by their families. But being openly gay means you might risk execution by the regime, just another example of laws that noone voted for. But among regular Iranians its about as taboo as it is among some eastern Europeans or some more conservative Americans. Finally, do you also have a problem with western/American culture? What's wrong with Iranians striving to be more like Americans? Many regular Iranians admire the USA, and why shouldn't they? They admire the success such a young country has had and they admire the liberties and freedoms their citizens enjoy. But you are such segregationist that you trying to imply that any culture that undergoes changes, borrowing from others, would mean they are ashamed of their origins. USA is influencing many countries by many ways, for good or bad (say by Hollywood), just like the Persian Empire..Roman Empire..British Empire did before them. |
Anonymous
Ooookay, but the why did the poster chose to list characteristics that feed into the program? |
Anonymous
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"Ooookay, but the why did the poster chose to list characteristics that feed into the program?" Because this person obviously has a issue with Persians/Iranians as other forum visitors have already pointed out. She/he has been going on and on about it but the moderators seem to have given her a carte blanche because she is supposedly married to a Iranian. Funny, that she changed her all Iranian husband to a half-Iranian when someone commented on her being ignorant about the culture. Next her hubby is going to be just 1/4 Iranian...will it go down to zero?! In fact, I think she might turn out to be single and lives with her Persian Cats! Or she is an arab who gets bugged out because because Iranians are proud of all of their heritage. Getting back to the topic, I watched the show too, and I didn't think it was so bad. I am a Persian Jew, who grew up California and now lives in Canada. There are lots of Iranians in California, most are prob upper middle class, and of course this show is a exaggeration and far from the real thing, but many of the super-rich in Cali act in a pretty obnoxious way (no matter what their ethnicity is). But hey, if the Italian-Americans survived Jersey Shore I am sure we Iranians can take on SoS...look I already coined the abbreviation! Btw, I've been a long time visitor here and I can't believe this turned out to be my first post! |