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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]As another PP who is married to an Iranian, I'd like to know why you seem so ANGRY.  You seem to really have a chip on your shoulder towards the Iranian culture. Why do you care so much about what they call themselves??  Who cares!

I'm married to an Iranian, and I've certainly met Iranians of all types over the years.  I can honestly say that the vast majority of the Iranians I'm lucky to call my friends are some of the most highly educated, introspective and KIND people I've ever known. They're well-traveled, open to different cultures and religions, and full of life.  Every single one is disgusted over what's happened in their country politically.

For anyone who's interested in learning how Iran came to be in the situation it's in today, I highly recommend the book "All the Shah's Men".  http://www.amazon.com/All-Shahs-Men-American-Middle/dp/0471265179.  I also recommend a fantastic movie: "Peresepolis": http://www.sonyclassics.com/persepolis/

As far as the plastic surgery comments above, I'd just like to point out that the U.S. is by FAR the country with the highest rate of plastic surgery. Brazil follows.

[/quote]

23:23 here, I want to know because I want to be informed. There is a lot of incorrect information on the internet, so why not ask someone posting that is informed on this topic? I come from an area that people were either white or black and we were never taught that Asian meant more than simply Chinese. I want to teach my own children more about the world and its people. I would have simply classified all Iranians as White prior to this post had I not known that this is incorrect. When you come from being taught that anyone who is not black is white it helps to increase your knowledge on race. [/quote]

Sorry, my post was directed at the PP who claims to be married to the "half-Iranian", not you.  [/quote]
[b]
I'm the one you are referring to. You know, my husband and I were up late tonight just talking about various things and I began to tell him about this thread. I told him about your post and other posts on here. He was so put off that he asked me if I would consider not writing on this thread anymore. I think like many people from different countries, they are highly sensitive and defensive about anything negative said about their country or their people. But if all anyone does is talk about how great their culture is, how great their people are, it becomes hard to discern the truth and truly learn about that culture or it's people.  It would be better if people of that country were more objective and more forthcoming. The public becomes more educated and in many cases may also become more understanding. For example, I heard on NPR once that Iranians have great pride because ancient Persia was once such a vast and powerful civilization. They aren't anymore, but they don't want that to ever be forgotten by the international community. As such, one guest on NPR said it would be unwise to use tough tactics in dealing Iran and instead suggested that the U.S. use a diplomatic approach that paid respect to their history to effect change with Iran. The other poster that wrote that the reason women get so much plastic surgery in Iran (particularly nose jobs) is because of the modesty laws requiring women to cover everything except their face,  makes me sympathize with the women living there rather than perceive them as superficial, western-white-caucasian wannabe's. When I questioned the visitor from Iran about the oppressive laws against homosexuals and adulterous women, it seemed as if she wanted to answer me but could not (perhaps due to government monitoring of internet activity?). It made me sympathize with her rather than than perceive her to be a supporter of such oppressive laws. So by asking such questions and getting more honest answers, I, too, am becoming more informed. As far as the bigot is concerned and other offensive replies, they won't change my opinion.

So you're only right in one sense - both my half Iranian husband and I have a few things we are angry about with the Iranian culture, laws, and behavior at times. I don't like the way they treat homosexuals, adulterous women, and how Ashura is observed with the self flagellation. Why did the government have to ban self flagellation? Presumably because if they didn't, it would continue and people would injure themselves or their children too much. I don't like how oppressive the modesty laws are for women. I don't like how so many Iranians want the world to believe they are white caucasian and strive for that western appearance (as evidenced by the kind of nose jobs they get). Iranians are generally quite successful and intelligent people TODAY. So still not understanding why the need to perpetually remind the world that they descended from the powerful Persian civilization from years past. AND do we have people who hate homosexuals here in the U.S. or people who get plastic surgery?  Yes, but our laws don't condone oppressing them or punishing them. And the plastic surgery is something Iranian women still do here in the U.S. where there are no modesty laws oppressing them. So I wonder if there is a dislike for one's own ethnic features, which is sad. It means western influence has a profound effect on the way people of other cultures feel about themselves.

Just being objective and honest would be more educational and informative for us than to only talk about all the positives of the culture.[/b] [/quote]

Are you suffering from a affective disorder? You accuse Iranians of being too proud and then you say they betray their culture and ethnicity by trying to mimic westerns.

First you said that Persian's are extinct, multiple Iranians pointed out your error. You even got a detailed account over how they in-fact exist and together make up to largest ethnic group and how Persian culture dominates Iran and influenced many other surrounding countries.  For example Persian is the official language in Iran and spoken in many neighboring countries (except the Arabic ones) and Persian rituals such as Nowruz (Persian New Year) is celebrated in many countries in Asia and some parts of Europe. Btw, another name for the indo-european languages is indo-iranian. But again, according to you the vast Persian Empire doesn't exist anymore so they can't exist in any form or shape, neither ethnically or culturally.

You also talked about about "arab Islam" being better compared to the "Iranian" version, who allows stoning of adulterers and perform self-flagellation. Really arab Islam is better? So I guess Saudi is better where just  a few months ago a man was decapitated in a public square because he was accused and convicted for sorcery/witchcraft?! Saudi Arabia, the only country where females are forbidden to drive a car by law? Or Pakistan (a non-arab country with the arab version of Islam) which forces the rape victims to marry their offenders? Not to mention the fact that self-flagellation during Ashura in Iran has very few participants and mostly a show of force for the regime and usually just consists of ceremonial chest-hitting with their open hand.  Maybe you are sunni muslim arab that loves your religion, but I have news for you, all 3 big religions suck, what you think circumcision is not abuse? and not to mention the barbaric female form that occurs in many arab-Islamic countries. Islam is a particular sinister religion. So suck on that.

Than you questioned their ethnicity because most Iranians say they are Caucasian, and as seen here lots say they are Caucasian but do not identify themselves as white in the same manner as Europeans. I don't know what motivates your hate, but it's a fact that most Iranians are Caucasian, and the majority is not Semitic. It's not a preference, it's a fact, people of the Caucasus region are from a area between Armenia, Georgia, Turkey, Iran and down to the Caspian sea which is part of Iran (that's the area called Caucasus!). But you seem to confuse this with skin color.

Why do you hate the fact that Iranian women perform beauty surgeries, and what makes you think they make themselves look more "white"? More importantly this is insight on how diluted your outlook on the world is, you actually justify your twisted logic because you feel "pity for them".  You are the only one who has been putting this drivel out. Surgeries are popular, but you seem to say that all Iranian women undergo surgery because all of them have stereotypical big noses. Also, according to you any surgery where they would strive for a "smaller" nose means they are ashamed of their ethnicity. I just spelled out everything you said, it's so unintelligent that I don't need to comment it any further.

Iranian women are far more integrated into society than many other countries, even under the Islamic dictatorship, over 70% of our university students are females. Iran has among the highest female to male ratio in higher level education, while for example USA ranks in about 60th. Iranian women are independent, educated and intelligent, and once this regime is gone they can be even more successful. I have no problem with some of them also taking time to pursue more "superficial" activities.

You seem to confuse the laws imposed by the regime, which is a dictatorship, with the Iranian people.  Despite the fact that many posters have repeatedly politely asked you  to make the distinction. The barbaric punishments such as hanging or death if you convert from Islam are imposed by the regime, and the most barbaric ones such as stoning did not exist until 1983, and handed out very rarely and even they have  now agree to remove it from legislation now. A small victory for human rights lawyers in Iran. But in Arab Islam countries and non-arab countries that follow "arabic islam", as you put it, decapitation for stuff like sorcery occurs and stoning happens by mobs, and doesn't  even need to be handed out as court punishment.

You called several people bigoted but you self make bigoted remarks repeatedly.Instead of realizing that changes such as banning stoning (even if not used) or limit on flagellation (which mostly payed supporters of the regime perfom) are the small fruits of the hard labor Iranian human rights/international law lawyers have pushed through (such as noble-prize winner Ms. Shirin Ebadi) you just assume these are initiatives the Iranian regime has put forth to protect the barbaric Iranians from themselves.

It's true that homosexuality is still taboo among regular Iranians, but again, not to the same degree as in Arabic countries. Gays exist in Iran, in what I would say in their own sub-culture, most inside and outside Iran usually accepted by their families. But being openly gay means you might risk execution by the regime, just another example of laws that noone voted for. But among regular Iranians its about as taboo as it is among some eastern Europeans or some more conservative Americans.

Finally, do you also have a problem with western/American culture? What's wrong with Iranians striving to be more like Americans? Many regular Iranians admire the USA, and why shouldn't they? They admire the success such a young country has had and they admire the liberties and freedoms their citizens enjoy. But you are such segregationist that you trying to imply that any culture that undergoes changes, borrowing from others, would mean they are ashamed of their origins. USA is influencing many countries by many ways, for good or bad (say by Hollywood), just like the Persian Empire..Roman Empire..British Empire did before them.[/quote]

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