Long-term sub instead of classroom teacher

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm curious as to how many schools are still seeing long-term subs versus a permanent teacher. Do you have any classes where it's a long-term sub instead of a teacher?

How is a student’s education affected by LT sub vs teacher?

My ES child had one two years in a row, she's a year behind in both reading and math.

This is education under false pretense if this LT sub doesn’t have the qualification and experience equivalent to a teacher.

That is a term you made up. Unfortunately, this is fully legal. There’s nothing you can do about it- you can compulsorily force people to be teachers. If a long term sub is all they can, it’s all they can get. There are not applicants for teaching jobs anymore. At my school we lost 9 people in EL and on the first day of school we still had 7 of those openings. It isn’t because the school is picky. Literally nobody applies.

Is child neglect by “educators” a better phrase?

If these unqualified LT subs are mostly in the classrooms of EL or SPED or Non-White students, it is unlawful discrimination. https://www.justice.gov/crt/types-educational-opportunities-discrimination

If FCPS doesn’t already have fed complaints about this, they will once parents realize their children aren’t learning like the students with qualified teachers.

You are still just crafting a made up narrative. Now, for no reason, you believe subs are only in self contained rooms and majority non-white classes? That’s ludicrous and inaccurate - the teacher can be out long term in any class for a variety of reasons. If there isn’t a licensed teacher willing or available to fill that role OR it’s for a finite duration and not a year long contract, the district has fulfilled its obligation by putting a long term sub in there. We can agree it’s likely not as quality of an education as an actual teacher, but also some actual teachers aren’t great, and you don’t necessarily get high quality education out of every class. That doesn’t mean there is educational malpractice or whatever term you created .

FCPS meets their obligation to educate a student when they regularly place qualified Educators in their classroom or they pay to educate the student elsewhere.

Fed OCR investigation found that FCPS violated federal law for remote learning students and have paid out $5.5 million so far to correct their educational malpractice and child neglect. https://wjla.com/renderer/wjla/amp/news/crisis-in-the-classrooms/fairfax-county-public-schools-fcps-special-education-students-services-missed-during-pandemic-superintendent-dr-michelle-reid-compensatory-process

When FCPS publishes all their data on the class of students that experience an unqualified sub vs qualified teacher every day, then we can debate more. Meanwhile, we can use your school with the 7 missing EL teachers as an example of the discrimination taking place.

There are literally teacher trainees(uncertified teachers) in every school. I would say the majority of schools have at least 1 or more long term subs. There is no discrimination taking place. This is happening in every socioeconomic level.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My dc just lost their English teacher in HS- they found a new non-teacher job. Now they have a different sub everyday with no end in sight. I would be happy with a long term sub at this point. Pretty sure DC is not learning anything right now. Not blaming the school or principal- i get that no one wants to teach- but people should not be complaining about a long term sub given the circumstances in some schools!

I looked into subbing. I retired from 25 yrs in business, but also taught college classes for years. Thought it would be great to do some teaching, particularly in topics in my area of expertise. After looking into it and talking to administrators--no way. Not only is the pay crap (not that I was expecting great pay, but literally McDonald's and Lidl pay more) I decided to spend time volunteering instead. Until they sort that out, this is going to continue I suspect.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:FCPS could change some things to open up the hiring gap. A big one is to change the pay scale for teachers with more than 12 years experience. The drops after that (it say 15 years, but the drop it to 12 because of missed-step years) means teachers with more experience tend to go counties such as APS, who will pay them at their experience level. I considered transferring to FCPS a few years ago to shorten my commute. There were about 50 openings in the area for which I would have applied, but Human Resources wouldn’t budge on that pay scale policy. I would have had a 20k salary decrease. APS had been willing to negotiate even above scale to get highly qualified teachers in high needs positions.

It's frustrating when teachers with less experience than I have make more than I do because I've been subjected to numerous step/ pay freezes.

If I have 20 years of experience in FCPS, but I am only on Step 16 due to step freezes, and a teacher with 17 years of experience from another county transfers in, they'd make more money than me. That's disappointing.

FCPS should reward teachers who have worked for them for 10, 15, 20, 25, 30, or more years. Currently, all we get is a nylon lanyard when we hit one of those milestones. A lanyard!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm curious as to how many schools are still seeing long-term subs versus a permanent teacher. Do you have any classes where it's a long-term sub instead of a teacher?

How is a student’s education affected by LT sub vs teacher?

My ES child had one two years in a row, she's a year behind in both reading and math.

This is education under false pretense if this LT sub doesn’t have the qualification and experience equivalent to a teacher.

That is a term you made up. Unfortunately, this is fully legal. There’s nothing you can do about it- you can compulsorily force people to be teachers. If a long term sub is all they can, it’s all they can get. There are not applicants for teaching jobs anymore. At my school we lost 9 people in EL and on the first day of school we still had 7 of those openings. It isn’t because the school is picky. Literally nobody applies.

Is child neglect by “educators” a better phrase?

If these unqualified LT subs are mostly in the classrooms of EL or SPED or Non-White students, it is unlawful discrimination. https://www.justice.gov/crt/types-educational-opportunities-discrimination

If FCPS doesn’t already have fed complaints about this, they will once parents realize their children aren’t learning like the students with qualified teachers.

You are still just crafting a made up narrative. Now, for no reason, you believe subs are only in self contained rooms and majority non-white classes? That’s ludicrous and inaccurate - the teacher can be out long term in any class for a variety of reasons. If there isn’t a licensed teacher willing or available to fill that role OR it’s for a finite duration and not a year long contract, the district has fulfilled its obligation by putting a long term sub in there. We can agree it’s likely not as quality of an education as an actual teacher, but also some actual teachers aren’t great, and you don’t necessarily get high quality education out of every class. That doesn’t mean there is educational malpractice or whatever term you created .

FCPS meets their obligation to educate a student when they regularly place qualified Educators in their classroom or they pay to educate the student elsewhere.

Fed OCR investigation found that FCPS violated federal law for remote learning students and have paid out $5.5 million so far to correct their educational malpractice and child neglect. https://wjla.com/renderer/wjla/amp/news/crisis-in-the-classrooms/fairfax-county-public-schools-fcps-special-education-students-services-missed-during-pandemic-superintendent-dr-michelle-reid-compensatory-process

When FCPS publishes all their data on the class of students that experience an unqualified sub vs qualified teacher every day, then we can debate more. Meanwhile, we can use your school with the 7 missing EL teachers as an example of the discrimination taking place.

There are literally teacher trainees(uncertified teachers) in every school. I would say the majority of schools have at least 1 or more long term subs. There is no discrimination taking place. This is happening in every socioeconomic level.

+1. This is in every school, in every district. It is not discrimination when there are literally no qualified teachers available to hire. No one is applying to teaching jobs. There's a teacher shortage and sub shortage across this entire country and it is certainly not limited to Title 1 schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm curious as to how many schools are still seeing long-term subs versus a permanent teacher. Do you have any classes where it's a long-term sub instead of a teacher?

How is a student’s education affected by LT sub vs teacher?

My ES child had one two years in a row, she's a year behind in both reading and math.

This is education under false pretense if this LT sub doesn’t have the qualification and experience equivalent to a teacher.

That is a term you made up. Unfortunately, this is fully legal. There’s nothing you can do about it- you can compulsorily force people to be teachers. If a long term sub is all they can, it’s all they can get. There are not applicants for teaching jobs anymore. At my school we lost 9 people in EL and on the first day of school we still had 7 of those openings. It isn’t because the school is picky. Literally nobody applies.

The bold all day. We have mulitple LTSs at our school and it's not going to change. There are no candidates to hire.

This and for all you parents saying teachers are noting but babysitters enjoy.

[Anonymous]

There is a LT at my school and they look dog tired every day. They said every parent should do a week in a classroom-then parents would understand what the job is like. They also said they will finish this position out but they are done with LT positions. No one wants the job!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm curious as to how many schools are still seeing long-term subs versus a permanent teacher. Do you have any classes where it's a long-term sub instead of a teacher?

How is a student’s education affected by LT sub vs teacher?

My ES child had one two years in a row, she's a year behind in both reading and math.

This is education under false pretense if this LT sub doesn’t have the qualification and experience equivalent to a teacher.

That is a term you made up. Unfortunately, this is fully legal. There’s nothing you can do about it- you can compulsorily force people to be teachers. If a long term sub is all they can, it’s all they can get. There are not applicants for teaching jobs anymore. At my school we lost 9 people in EL and on the first day of school we still had 7 of those openings. It isn’t because the school is picky. Literally nobody applies.

Is child neglect by “educators” a better phrase?

If these unqualified LT subs are mostly in the classrooms of EL or SPED or Non-White students, it is unlawful discrimination. https://www.justice.gov/crt/types-educational-opportunities-discrimination

If FCPS doesn’t already have fed complaints about this, they will once parents realize their children aren’t learning like the students with qualified teachers.

You are still just crafting a made up narrative. Now, for no reason, you believe subs are only in self contained rooms and majority non-white classes? That’s ludicrous and inaccurate - the teacher can be out long term in any class for a variety of reasons. If there isn’t a licensed teacher willing or available to fill that role OR it’s for a finite duration and not a year long contract, the district has fulfilled its obligation by putting a long term sub in there. We can agree it’s likely not as quality of an education as an actual teacher, but also some actual teachers aren’t great, and you don’t necessarily get high quality education out of every class. That doesn’t mean there is educational malpractice or whatever term you created .

FCPS meets their obligation to educate a student when they regularly place qualified Educators in their classroom or they pay to educate the student elsewhere.

Fed OCR investigation found that FCPS violated federal law for remote learning students and have paid out $5.5 million so far to correct their educational malpractice and child neglect. https://wjla.com/renderer/wjla/amp/news/crisis-in-the-classrooms/fairfax-county-public-schools-fcps-special-education-students-services-missed-during-pandemic-superintendent-dr-michelle-reid-compensatory-process

When FCPS publishes all their data on the class of students that experience an unqualified sub vs qualified teacher every day, then we can debate more. Meanwhile, we can use your school with the 7 missing EL teachers as an example of the discrimination taking place.

It is not discrimination to not have enough teachers because nobody applies. It sucks and is awful but it doesn’t mean the school is discriminating against students. You are wildly misapplying case law here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm curious as to how many schools are still seeing long-term subs versus a permanent teacher. Do you have any classes where it's a long-term sub instead of a teacher?

How is a student’s education affected by LT sub vs teacher?

My ES child had one two years in a row, she's a year behind in both reading and math.

This is education under false pretense if this LT sub doesn’t have the qualification and experience equivalent to a teacher.

That is a term you made up. Unfortunately, this is fully legal. There’s nothing you can do about it- you can compulsorily force people to be teachers. If a long term sub is all they can, it’s all they can get. There are not applicants for teaching jobs anymore. At my school we lost 9 people in EL and on the first day of school we still had 7 of those openings. It isn’t because the school is picky. Literally nobody applies.

Is child neglect by “educators” a better phrase?

If these unqualified LT subs are mostly in the classrooms of EL or SPED or Non-White students, it is unlawful discrimination. https://www.justice.gov/crt/types-educational-opportunities-discrimination

If FCPS doesn’t already have fed complaints about this, they will once parents realize their children aren’t learning like the students with qualified teachers.

That’s not true. I’m a teacher and at my school we have a sub for a foreign language position. Everyone wishes they could find a long term sub but it’s been different day to day subs because no one will take the job. They can’t be picky and only get someone who is certified to teach the language. No one is applying.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was a long term sub last year and left after two weeks. It was clear the principal had no real intention of finding a permanent teacher, and in the meantime, I was going to be responsible for report cards, teacher conferences, etc. - not to mention, an incredibly unruly group of students who made it impossible for the others to learn or even hear. It was just absurd, especially considering the pennies subs are paid. No thanks.

I bet it made it crystal clear why teachers are leaving the profession in high numbers.

PP here - oh, definitely. I was just glad I tried subbing before jumping through all the hoops needed to get my teaching certificate. Saved thousands of dollars and countless hours. I honestly don’t know who would want to be a teacher in this climate. It used to be such a great job.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There is a LT at my school and they look dog tired every day. They said every parent should do a week in a classroom-then parents would understand what the job is like. They also said they will finish this position out but they are done with LT positions. No one wants the job!

+100
That’s exactly how I looked and felt when I was an LT. Never again.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is a LT at my school and they look dog tired every day. They said every parent should do a week in a classroom-then parents would understand what the job is like. They also said they will finish this position out but they are done with LT positions. No one wants the job!

+100
That’s exactly how I looked and felt when I was an LT. Never again.

THIS!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was a long term sub last year and left after two weeks. It was clear the principal had no real intention of finding a permanent teacher, and in the meantime, I was going to be responsible for report cards, teacher conferences, etc. - not to mention, an incredibly unruly group of students who made it impossible for the others to learn or even hear. It was just absurd, especially considering the pennies subs are paid. No thanks.

I bet it made it crystal clear why teachers are leaving the profession in high numbers.

PP here - oh, definitely. I was just glad I tried subbing before jumping through all the hoops needed to get my teaching certificate. Saved thousands of dollars and countless hours. I honestly don’t know who would want to be a teacher in this climate. It used to be such a great job.

Yes....sad what it's become.

[Anonymous]

Does seem like no one wants to sub as the most recent subs I know of, their just prior jobs were UPS driver and don’t know where but retail. Do subs even need college degree at this point or does FCPS need all comers to fill positions whether went to college or not?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Does seem like no one wants to sub as the most recent subs I know of, their just prior jobs were UPS driver and don’t know where but retail. Do subs even need college degree at this point or does FCPS need all comers to fill positions whether went to college or not?

This is my 31st year and FCPS has never required substitutes to have a college degree.

https://www.fcps.edu/careers/career-opportunities/substitute-teaching-opportunities/new-applicants

If applying to be a substitute teacher, a copy of your undergraduate college transcripts that show 30 credit hours or more (grade reports, or college diplomas are not accepted) is required*. For candidates that do not meet the minimum of 30 semester hours, the following exceptions can apply:

enrolled in an approved teacher education preparatory program.

has completed a high school teacher preparatory course, like Teachers for Tomorrow.

has been employed as an Instructional Assistant for at least one school year at a K12 organization.

has one full year of experience teaching preschool or in a school-aged childcare program.

has completed one full year as a classroom or a student monitor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does seem like no one wants to sub as the most recent subs I know of, their just prior jobs were UPS driver and don’t know where but retail. Do subs even need college degree at this point or does FCPS need all comers to fill positions whether went to college or not?

This is my 31st year and FCPS has never required substitutes to have a college degree.

https://www.fcps.edu/careers/career-opportunities/substitute-teaching-opportunities/new-applicants

If applying to be a substitute teacher, a copy of your undergraduate college transcripts that show 30 credit hours or more (grade reports, or college diplomas are not accepted) is required*. For candidates that do not meet the minimum of 30 semester hours, the following exceptions can apply:

enrolled in an approved teacher education preparatory program.

has completed a high school teacher preparatory course, like Teachers for Tomorrow.

has been employed as an Instructional Assistant for at least one school year at a K12 organization.

has one full year of experience teaching preschool or in a school-aged childcare program.

has completed one full year as a classroom or a student monitor.

Where is the data that shows us how many hours days weeks months these unqualified subs are “teaching” our children at FCPS?