Pre-algebra in 6th - score cutoffs

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes I agree. Work with the school system to get an advanced sixth grade math class created.

Another thing that could be done is not automatically placing all the more advanced kids into super intensified higher math classes. Just because it was the right choice to go into a more advanced math class in sixth grade doesn't necessarily mean that you should take algebra2intensified/trig in 9th grade.

I don't think this is automatic. You can always take the non intensified version of the course.

You can, but the default (which is what I meant by automatic) is the intensified class.

If you take Pre-Algebra in 6th grade, then your only option is to take Algebra I Intensified in 7th grade. When APS redid the math pathways in 2019, they intended to only have a small group of students (i.e., one class) track to Pre-Algebra in 6th grade. The assumption was that those students were truly advanced in math, and therefore would have no issues taking Algebra I Intensified in 7th grade. All of the other students were supposed to track to Math 6. From there, they split to Pre-Algebra or Math 7, and then to Pre-Algebra, Algebra I or Algebra I Intensified in 8th grade. Parents lost their minds though because: (1) they couldn't cope with the thought of their kid not being the best at something and/or (2) they didn't want their above average math kid mixed with average math kids in Math 6. As a result, more and more parents started pushing to move their kid from Math 6 to Pre-Algebra, which might work out fine for 6th grade. However, not all the kids in Pre-Algebra in 6th grade are ready for Algebra I Intensified in 7th grade. But there is not a non-intensified Algebra I option available to 7th graders. Non-intensified Algebra I is only available to 8th graders. So it is all a big mess now and probably not serving any of the kids well. https://www.apsva.us/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/MS-Pathways-SY21.pdf

I don't think those are the reasons. I think it's true that kids who are 98th percentile are bored in elementary school math, but so are the kids in the 90-94th percentile. Elementary math didn't challenge them either. So their options are to be bored and under challenged for another year in Math 6 or try to stretch to Math 6-7-8. I don't think parents are intentionally placing their kids incorrectly out of ego, but are just trying to fit their kid into the existing system. Some kids rise to the occasion and I'm sure others struggle.

[Anonymous]

I’m so curious about those who think that depth is acceptable in the elementary curriculum. Have you seen what they are giving 4th graders for “depth”? It’s pure busy work or not deep at all.

I love beast academy’s approach to depth - it goes further AND deeper. The APS “depth” in elementary makes me want to claw my eyeballs out. It is a complete waste of time.

I have two STEM degrees and I’m married to an engineer. We aren’t strangers to math.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m so curious about those who think that depth is acceptable in the elementary curriculum. Have you seen what they are giving 4th graders for “depth”? It’s pure busy work or not deep at all.

I love beast academy’s approach to depth - it goes further AND deeper. The APS “depth” in elementary makes me want to claw my eyeballs out. It is a complete waste of time.

I have two STEM degrees and I’m married to an engineer. We aren’t strangers to math.

APS doesn't know how to give depth in anything. The new middle school intensified classes are just more busy work too. They aren't going deeper into anything. More often, it is a choice board, and you do two things instead of one thing. It is all self-study and the teacher doesn't even provide feedback. The only thing propping up APS now is the fact that so many smart kids live in the district and so the test scores aren't tanking. But it doesn't have much to do with the school program.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, 2nd grade Cogat but you can have it re-administered, especially given the impact of COVID on those years for current 5th graders.

Does anyone else’s test explanations not work? I am unrealistically hoping it says something like “we see your kid needs…(blank)” but mine just spins and reloads the title box without content.

The test explanation just explains the MAP test. This is what it links to

https://www.apsva.us/assessment/interpreting-boy-scores/

LOL this is so APS. "We don't want you to actually understand if your child is quite clever and we are failing them or if they are failing and we are failing them."
Here is an actual study from the actual test creators with percentile scores and Virginia SOL correlation. https://www.nwea.org/uploads/2022/03/VA-3-8-MAP-Growth-Linking-Study-Report_NWEA_2022-03-25.pdf

[Anonymous]

Interesting, though perhaps of limited utility for those with kids who are always above the 90th percentile. Of course they'll get a pass advanced on the SOL, as well as all As, etc.

As someone with a kid who tests in the 92-95th percentile in math with no outside coursework, i still don't have a great feel for where they should be placed next year. They're not 98th percentile, but have a great math intuition, have never really been challenged, and will likely end up in STEM, just knowing their preferences.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, 2nd grade Cogat but you can have it re-administered, especially given the impact of COVID on those years for current 5th graders.

Does anyone else’s test explanations not work? I am unrealistically hoping it says something like “we see your kid needs…(blank)” but mine just spins and reloads the title box without content.

The test explanation just explains the MAP test. This is what it links to

https://www.apsva.us/assessment/interpreting-boy-scores/

LOL this is so APS. "We don't want you to actually understand if your child is quite clever and we are failing them or if they are failing and we are failing them."
Here is an actual study from the actual test creators with percentile scores and Virginia SOL correlation. https://www.nwea.org/uploads/2022/03/VA-3-8-MAP-Growth-Linking-Study-Report_NWEA_2022-03-25.pdf

It is so interesting because my kid scored in the middle "could one day be at risk" category on the VGA test and then MAP scored off the charts for his grade.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes I agree. Work with the school system to get an advanced sixth grade math class created.

Another thing that could be done is not automatically placing all the more advanced kids into super intensified higher math classes. Just because it was the right choice to go into a more advanced math class in sixth grade doesn't necessarily mean that you should take algebra2intensified/trig in 9th grade.

I don't think this is automatic. You can always take the non intensified version of the course.

You can, but the default (which is what I meant by automatic) is the intensified class.

If you take Pre-Algebra in 6th grade, then your only option is to take Algebra I Intensified in 7th grade. When APS redid the math pathways in 2019, they intended to only have a small group of students (i.e., one class) track to Pre-Algebra in 6th grade. The assumption was that those students were truly advanced in math, and therefore would have no issues taking Algebra I Intensified in 7th grade. All of the other students were supposed to track to Math 6. From there, they split to Pre-Algebra or Math 7, and then to Pre-Algebra, Algebra I or Algebra I Intensified in 8th grade. Parents lost their minds though because: (1) they couldn't cope with the thought of their kid not being the best at something and/or (2) they didn't want their above average math kid mixed with average math kids in Math 6. As a result, more and more parents started pushing to move their kid from Math 6 to Pre-Algebra, which might work out fine for 6th grade. However, not all the kids in Pre-Algebra in 6th grade are ready for Algebra I Intensified in 7th grade. But there is not a non-intensified Algebra I option available to 7th graders. Non-intensified Algebra I is only available to 8th graders. So it is all a big mess now and probably not serving any of the kids well. https://www.apsva.us/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/MS-Pathways-SY21.pdf

APS likes the idea of more heterogenous math classes so they implemented a higher hurdle for 7th grade Algebra 1 in 2019 by having kids cover content from 6/7/8 in prealgebra. FCPS and LCPS didn't do this, however; they continued to let 6th graders cover content through only Math 7 and then go to Algebra 1 in 7th grade. You say that some kids are not ready for Algebra 1 intensified in 7th grade. But prior to 2019, nearly all the APS kids taking 7th grade intensified Algebra 1 got As and Bs in the course. It's not clear that APS needed to implement the higher hurdle for 7th grade Algebra 1. APS should return to offering Prealgebra 6/7 and stop cramming Math 8 content into prealgebra.