Behavior in DD's school/grade

[Anonymous]

DD8 is in 3rd grade and the behavior in her grade/school is crazy. Kids with serious behavior issues and classes being evacuated at the worst ... the "best" of the worst behaviors is huge amounts of back talk, not listening, vulgar language, just being rude little sh*ts. My DD is of course not perfect, but she's a pretty good kid. Having spent a lot of time in her class, there are maybe 3-4 well behaved kids. We were trying to do a holiday craft for their party yesterday and the vast majority of kids could not handle a craft that is age appropriate for probably 6 year olds. I'm not saying just needing help - totally fine - but meltdowns, refusal to even try, telling me I need to do it for them, etc. Meanwhile most of the kids couldn't handle the game if they didn't win or do it well. Then half the time there was a group of boys straight up trying to murder each other in a wrestling match and their poor teacher was completely unfazed. It's like this every time I am there and has been for our entire time at this school.

There's so many incidents of kids trashing the room and assaulting other students and teachers. I feel like I am parenting so hard to overcome her daily environment. I know there are plenty of great kids her age. She's very involved in an extra curricular activity where the kids are kind, well behaved, focused, etc. She spends tons of time there, so just being around kids that aren't poorly behaved is an unintended benefit of this activity.

Every time I'm there, I leave just sad and slightly depressed. It is a chaotic, joyless environment where no one seems to want to be there - kids and adults alike. I loved school growing up. Is this just what school is like now?? If I had any inclination another school would be in better, I would put in for a transfer, I'm just not sure if it's better anywhere else. Our area (not DC) doesn't have many non-religious private school options that aren't an obscene amount of money, so we are in public.

Does anyone else feel just lost like this in regards to their kids' schooling?

[Anonymous]

It's tough. I honestly don't know if my son's school is like this, but I worked at a nearby elementary and it was much like you describe. And yes, it was depressing at times. I have volunteered at my son's school and they were able to sit and listen to a story, and I haven't seen too much chaos at lunch time, but who knows.

When I was growing up... I think I seem to remember there were always THOSE problem kids. Usually kids who had severe issues or were thought to be medicated due to hyperactivity, but they were a handful of kids in the entire school and everybody knew who they were. The behavior issues seem much more widespread now, unless that's just my nostalgia.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's tough. I honestly don't know if my son's school is like this, but I worked at a nearby elementary and it was much like you describe. And yes, it was depressing at times. I have volunteered at my son's school and they were able to sit and listen to a story, and I haven't seen too much chaos at lunch time, but who knows.

When I was growing up... I think I seem to remember there were always THOSE problem kids. Usually kids who had severe issues or were thought to be medicated due to hyperactivity, but they were a handful of kids in the entire school and everybody knew who they were. The behavior issues seem much more widespread now, unless that's just my nostalgia.

OP here... that's how I remember it too. There were definitely those kids, but it was the minority, not the majority.

DD's school has a number system for lunch and specials where they get X number of points based on behavior and they are constantly getting a bad score and DD gets upset about it, because then they get a consequence of some sort for the whole class and there are some that are being perfectly behaved. I've even confirmed with her teacher when we get emails about their poor lunch and specials scores. I just don't get the group punishment.

Then they had an assembly and they gave out awards and the vast majority of the awards are to the poorly behaved kids who are "getting better" (BS) in their behavior. While the kids that never rock the boat and do what they are supposed to are never recognized. I normally wouldn't care about silly school awards, but it's so odd to watch kids that I've heard are problem kids alllll year get an "award". I barely understand it as a parent, but children definitely don't.

[Anonymous]

My child is in a school in MCPS and it is not at all like this. From what you describe, I would look at moving my child to a different classroom or a new school.

[Anonymous]

We are at a religious school even though we are not very religious (and one parent is a different religion). It’s not too heavy-handed with religion and the environment is much calmer and more orderly. We are having a good experience. If you can swing that lower tuition, many go and visit some schools. The environment you describe is not healthy for our kid.

[Anonymous]

Yeah, I just volunteered in my kids' 3rd grade and K classrooms in APS and it seemed pretty buttoned up. Could I do it everyday? Naw. Was it what I expected for a bunch of kids during a party? Yes, it seemed well within the realm of normal.

Like PP, I think I would look into moving my kid if it was as wild as you describe.

[Anonymous]

I think this is happening all around the country. Junk food, poor parenting.. so the kids who were “those kids” when we grew up are now considered normal kids, and the good kids (“regular kids” when we grew up) really stand out as being calm and well behaved.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My child is in a school in MCPS and it is not at all like this. From what you describe, I would look at moving my child to a different classroom or a new school.

Op here. Every classroom she's been in has been like this. There's enough behavior kids that they split them up, so every classroom is chaos. Her class has 2 that are problematic, but I'm aware of several others (some that she's been with before and are worse).

The other big problem, is there's just no real consequences for these kids ... I mean, sh*t they are giving them awards. But they turn a classroom upside down (literally) and nothing happens. Meanwhile, they get on them for getting a low "score" in lunch and specials and the well behaved kids have to share in the consequences even when they didn't do anything wrong. It's frustrating.

[Anonymous]

Catholic school. Kids that mouth off are sent to the principal for insubordination. This can only happen so many times before they are asked to leave.

[Anonymous]

My third grader’s class (APS) is not like this at all. The teacher has even sent emails gushing about how great the kids are how she gets so many compliments from specials teachers.

[Anonymous]

So 1, I wouldn’t necessarily judge the behavior based on the class holiday party. Thats not a usual experience for them so they might be all over the place. But 2, I have heard that 3rd grade is crazy. Remember those are the kids who never got to go to K because of the Covid school closures, and their 1st grade was likely all masked and under restrictions. I’ve heard that 4th graders (shortened K, no 1st) are similar, maybe behavior not as bad but they had a lot of school catching up to do. And 3, some classes just have all the wild kids in them and if the teacher doesn’t have great classroom management the kids will go crazy. Luckily it’s lower stakes in elementary vs. in middle or HS where kids are larger and rowdier. Hopefully next year will be better. Hang in there!

[Anonymous]

This has not been our experience at all (3 DC). There are always some behavioral issues (usually milder things like fidgeting/not listening at times, talking out of turn or chatting while the teacher is talking etc) but nothing too crazy- and the kids generally accept correction etc. There are really just a few kids (in the whole elementary school) with more serious behavioral problems (aggression etc), and the school seems to handle that VERY seriously. The teachers tend to send them to the office a lot and have the support of admin. UMC suburban public school fwiw.

I’d be looking at different schools if I were you.

[Anonymous]

Yes, it seems that the school's methods for disciplining and rewarding behavior may be contributing to the problem. This is not something you will be able to change. I mean, you can try to get other parents onboard and meet with the teacher and principal to change the reward system, but it might be alot of work and nothing may come of it.

[Anonymous]

It sounds like the school isn’t being managed well. It starts with the administration. If there’s another option, I’d look into it.

[Anonymous]

My child is in 3rd grade at a private religious school across the going from DC. While not every moment is quite as you describe it, u found myself nodding along at so many things you wrote. Many of my DD’s schoolmates (not her classmates) are rude, spoiled little sh-ts.

Her grade itself was extremely disregulated in 1st and 2nd grade and she suffered from both the chaos and the group punishments. She regularly lost an extra recess or a special Friday activity because the same kids would blow off consequences over and over and they wouldn’t earn their points for the week.

When I am at her school, I notice several things:

1) no individual punishment. Individual “consequences” are usually things like having to talk things through with a teacher or counselor. When we were kids, individual consequences started with sitting in the hallway and escalated to detention, the principles office, and calls home. Calls home for discipline are no longer a thing.

2) extreme lack of fine motor skills for age. The grade is divided into kids who would be considered competent when I was little who other kids now considered “artistic”, and kids who need a ton of OT. I think this is a Covid thing; they were hybrid that year in pre-k and then K.

3) kids don’t sit still. When we were little, there might be only one kid constantly hopping in and out of his seat and trying to go to the hallway, and he would be punished. Accomodation of different learning styles means that kids are allowed to wriggle and move and just walk away. I can’t volunteer in the classroom because the kids standing at their desks, leaning, wandering around, and just leaving makes me crazy. It’s visually exhausting and distracting.