How do we get top students (as defined by high school SAT and GPA) to enter public school teaching?

[Anonymous]

I’m aware that this is a touchy subject. I know there’s also debate over whether teachers should be getting subject matter degrees then specializing in education in a master’s program, versus majoring in education as an undergraduate. My opinion is that that would need to take into account credential inflation and that students would need to pay more to become teachers than they previously needed to. Currently, universities that were historically and continue to ones that produce teachers have low average SAT scores, graduation rates and other factors.

[Anonymous]

-Make teaching fun again. Roll back bureaucracy and unnecessary tests.
-Principals need to address classroom disciplinary issues. That's the #1 complaint I hear from friends who are teachers. When issues arise, principals don't have their back. One had her classroom evacuated multiple times a week due to the same student.

I think you'll get responses about pay, but I don't even think that's the biggest issue.

[Anonymous]

OP here. I think it’s a vicious cycle because kids/families don’t respect teachers partly because they believe teachers are not deserving of respect due to their low credentials. So why would someone who has “high credentials” go into teaching and risk getting disrespected as well?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I think it’s a vicious cycle because kids/families don’t respect teachers partly because they believe teachers are not deserving of respect due to their low credentials. So why would someone who has “high credentials” go into teaching and risk getting disrespected as well?

LOL you can have "high credentials" and get "disresepected" in many, many jobs.

Some teachers are just bad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I think it’s a vicious cycle because kids/families don’t respect teachers partly because they believe teachers are not deserving of respect due to their low credentials. So why would someone who has “high credentials” go into teaching and risk getting disrespected as well?

LOL you can have "high credentials" and get "disresepected" in many, many jobs.

Some teachers are just bad.

In what way? Do you believe that teachers with higher credentials would be better at teaching?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:-Make teaching fun again. Roll back bureaucracy and unnecessary tests.
-Principals need to address classroom disciplinary issues. That's the #1 complaint I hear from friends who are teachers. When issues arise, principals don't have their back. One had her classroom evacuated multiple times a week due to the same student.

I think you'll get responses about pay, but I don't even think that's the biggest issue.

Nor is it the smallest issue. It certainly is a REAL issue.

One way that top students can be steered into public school teaching is through Teach for America. It's how one of my kids -- an honors graduate of a top 10 liberal arts college -- entered the field. While many TFA alums move on to other things, some don't -- including my kid and several others who I know well.

In the case of my kid, though, she was able to stay in the profession notwithstanding the relatively low pay because (1) she had no student loans and (2) her husband -- a graduate of the same college but with a less impressive college transcript -- went into private industry and almost immediately began making more money than her.

Teaching simply doesn't pay enough to be the primary source of income for most American families, and for as long as that is the case it's not going to attract top college graduates.

[Anonymous]

I'm an elementary school teacher. You aren't going to get these people into education unless a lot of changes are made first. Here are a few:

1) Pay them what they would be paid if they chose another profession. I'm in year 15 of teaching. I have a Master's plus I don't know how many more credits. My DS just graduated from college last year and already makes more than I do (and he isn't in engineering or CS).

2) Pay for their undergrad degree or highly subsidize it.

3) Get rid of the higher-ups in education who haven't taught for at least 10 yrs prior to moving into admin. Basically, the people making the big decisions need to be a lot more in touch with teaching.

4) Enforce rules with consequences. Make it no-nonsense like my son's former Catholic school.

[Anonymous]

Teachers are definitely low paid compared to COL in major metro areas, but where I’m from, teaching (or being a cop) was both the best and one of the only “good” jobs available. That is often the case in areas with no professional services presence.

[Anonymous]

This is such an easy one.

Pay them more.

A lot more.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm an elementary school teacher. You aren't going to get these people into education unless a lot of changes are made first. Here are a few:

1) Pay them what they would be paid if they chose another profession. I'm in year 15 of teaching. I have a Master's plus I don't know how many more credits. My DS just graduated from college last year and already makes more than I do (and he isn't in engineering or CS).

2) Pay for their undergrad degree or highly subsidize it.

3) Get rid of the higher-ups in education who haven't taught for at least 10 yrs prior to moving into admin. Basically, the people making the big decisions need to be a lot more in touch with teaching.

4) Enforce rules with consequences. Make it no-nonsense like my son's former Catholic school.

I agree. Becoming an admin is way too easy. You should be required to teach at least 10 years before becoming an admin.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm an elementary school teacher. You aren't going to get these people into education unless a lot of changes are made first. Here are a few:

1) Pay them what they would be paid if they chose another profession. I'm in year 15 of teaching. I have a Master's plus I don't know how many more credits. My DS just graduated from college last year and already makes more than I do (and he isn't in engineering or CS).

2) Pay for their undergrad degree or highly subsidize it.

3) Get rid of the higher-ups in education who haven't taught for at least 10 yrs prior to moving into admin. Basically, the people making the big decisions need to be a lot more in touch with teaching.

4) Enforce rules with consequences. Make it no-nonsense like my son's former Catholic school.

I agree. Becoming an admin is way too easy. You should be required to teach at least 10 years before becoming an admin.

I'm the teacher who posted above. In many countries, the principal or head of school is called a lead teacher because they actually still teach while having admin duties. Also, I want to add that the best teachers I have worked with aren't necessarily the smartest. We have had many, many, many TFA people at our school over the years. The colleges they attended are very impressive however they quit way before the first school year ended. They couldn't deal with classroom management and the workload. Top grades and test scores don't mean much when you can't teach your students because you can't manage them.

[Anonymous]

In other nations teaching can be a high status occupation with high barriers to entry. In the USA this is not the case.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In other nations teaching can be a high status occupation with high barriers to entry. In the USA this is not the case.

I’m aware.

[Anonymous]

Pay them more money, stop expecting them to do things besides teach, increase classroom aides or decrease class sizes, give teacher some control over curriculum they use, pair students together with like students so teachers aren’t teaching 3 or 4 different levels in one class and neglecting to give any of them a decent education, get parents more involved. Also open the door to other areas of expertise to be a teacher. I’ve worked with special needs individuals for over 20 years but because my graduate degree is in another area I could never work as a teacher in a public school. I can be hired out through private contractors to teach individuals in a public school that have IEPs though. I can also provide training to teachers and parents but I’m not deemed good enough to be a teacher myself. Probably costs the school system twice as much this way and really makes no sense. Also if I were able to substitute teach in public school the district I’m in currently would pay me for a bachelors degree and not a masters plus many years. Doesn’t exactly make me jump up and try it- I can look elsewhere where I don’t have to jump through hoops and can make more money and have much more control over individual student programs and progress.

[Anonymous]

Start paying teachers double or triple what they make now and I guarantee more high achievers will enter the field. Instead of a 4 year program, teaching should be a 5-6 year program. All classrooms with severe behaviors should get a co-teacher (not an aide). And the higher ups should have to return to the classroom for a year every 6-8 years.

Fwiw, I'm in a school that is low income/middle income. We have staff from some very good universities. I'm not 100% convinced someone with a high ACT score makes a better teacher though. I think a better question would be, are we as individual tax payers ready to pay significantly higher taxes to attract and keep the students you mention in your question.