How do we get top students (as defined by high school SAT and GPA) to enter public school teaching?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m aware that this is a touchy subject. I know there’s also debate over whether teachers should be getting subject matter degrees then specializing in education in a master’s program, versus majoring in education as an undergraduate. My opinion is that that would need to take into account credential inflation and that students would need to pay more to become teachers than they previously needed to. Currently, universities that were historically and continue to ones that produce teachers have low average SAT scores, graduation rates and other factors.

1. Pay them better
2. Stop letting parents have so much control over everything in the school
3. Run it like a business.

If schools were run as a business, parents would have more control. They are the consumers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m aware that this is a touchy subject. I know there’s also debate over whether teachers should be getting subject matter degrees then specializing in education in a master’s program, versus majoring in education as an undergraduate. My opinion is that that would need to take into account credential inflation and that students would need to pay more to become teachers than they previously needed to. Currently, universities that were historically and continue to ones that produce teachers have low average SAT scores, graduation rates and other factors.

1. Pay them better
2. Stop letting parents have so much control over everything in the school
3. Run it like a business.

If schools were run as a business, parents would have more control. They are the consumers.

For private schools, the parents are the consumers. But for public schools, the community and society at large are the consumers. Public school is provided to make people better citizens -- more informed, more responsible, etc.

A lot of parents don't seem to understand that, however, at least in Arlington.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:K-12 public school teaching will never attract high achievers. It is not an intellectually challenging profession that these type of people generally seek. For one, they are teaching basic subject matter- year after year. Second, they are largely doing a lot of parenting and behavioral management.

Not intellectually challenging? Are you joking?

Teaching is extremely intellectually challenging. You are literally making thousands of decisions all day without lack of “flow”. It is roughly comparable to a broker on the stock market floor on a busy day.

Teachers are constantly forced to re educate ourselves on topics, students, and procedures. No day is ever the same. For the right personality this is one of the reasons people are attracted to teaching.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
One way that top students can be steered into public school teaching is through Teach for America. It's how one of my kids -- an honors graduate of a top 10 liberal arts college -- entered the field. While many TFA alums move on to other things, some don't -- including my kid and several others who I know well.

In the case of my kid, though, she was able to stay in the profession notwithstanding the relatively low pay because (1) she had no student loans and (2) her husband -- a graduate of the same college but with a less impressive college transcript -- went into private industry and almost immediately began making more money than her.

Teach for America really devalues the importance of training to creating effective teachers. I am sure your daughter and her friends have the best of intentions, but you don't learn to teach by going through a a brief course the summer before you're plunked into a classroom. And most of the TFA alumni I know didn't go back to learn how to teach. Some of them went to get MEds so they could go into administration, because those who can't do administrate.

Which gets to one of the main things that drive people from the profession: Being overseen and evaluated by things that don't reflect your ability by people who don't understand your job. That, and the low pay, are going to drain the pool of talent faster than anything else.

Teach for America teachers are college graduates who are required to enroll in graduate school to get a master's in teaching at the same time that they are "plunked into a classroom." You left a critical part of the program out when you were disparaging it. How much "training" does your typical college graduate with a bachelor's in teaching have before they're "plunked" into a classroom?

I had three 6 month long placements in three different classrooms as an undergrad. My TFA colleague had never been around kids prior to her first teaching gig. Big difference.

Right. And that's great. But the question originally posted was "how do we get top students (as defined by high school SAT and GPA) to enter public school teaching?" How many public school teachers who went your route had "high SATs and GPAs" in high school and were "top students?" All of the available statistics would suggest that the answer is very few. I'm not surprised you'd take offense that others ended up in your profession by going a different route. No, TFA isn't perfect -- far from it, in fact -- and yes, the program starts its participants off with less classroom experience that the typical first year teacher who went the traditional route, but TFA participants are, by and large, more driven than most college graduates and certainly, well, if I have to say it, "smarter" than your typical traditionally trained and educated teacher. AND, as I said, they're also required to get their master's degrees in education while they are working. It's not like they just hire a history major from Tufts and throw them in a classroom with zero training and zero expectation that they'll get any formal education or degree in teaching.

I personally know of several high school and college superstars who got into teaching through TFA and are sticking with it and prospering in the DMV. Honestly, and with all respect, the one issue that my daughter has sheepishly confided in me about the problems she faces in her day-to-day dealings with her colleagues and administrators is that she is obviously "smarter" than most of them. She certainly doesn't think that makes her "better" as a human being or anything like that, but she is certainly dealing with a less intellectually capable group of colleagues on a day-to-day basis as a public school teacher than she did as a college student at an elite college.

I don't really care if others are smarter than I am. TFA teachers almost always end up quitting in my district (some make it to the end of the year but most don't). I don't need to be the smartest person in the room to teach 5-6 yr olds. I need other skills that most people do not possess. How do you attract top students? You don't because they aren't interested unless they can't figure out what to do with their lives so they go into TFA. Students don't need the smartest teachers. They need skilled teachers with a lot of patience and compassion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
One way that top students can be steered into public school teaching is through Teach for America. It's how one of my kids -- an honors graduate of a top 10 liberal arts college -- entered the field. While many TFA alums move on to other things, some don't -- including my kid and several others who I know well.

In the case of my kid, though, she was able to stay in the profession notwithstanding the relatively low pay because (1) she had no student loans and (2) her husband -- a graduate of the same college but with a less impressive college transcript -- went into private industry and almost immediately began making more money than her.

Teach for America really devalues the importance of training to creating effective teachers. I am sure your daughter and her friends have the best of intentions, but you don't learn to teach by going through a a brief course the summer before you're plunked into a classroom. And most of the TFA alumni I know didn't go back to learn how to teach. Some of them went to get MEds so they could go into administration, because those who can't do administrate.

Which gets to one of the main things that drive people from the profession: Being overseen and evaluated by things that don't reflect your ability by people who don't understand your job. That, and the low pay, are going to drain the pool of talent faster than anything else.

Teach for America teachers are college graduates who are required to enroll in graduate school to get a master's in teaching at the same time that they are "plunked into a classroom." You left a critical part of the program out when you were disparaging it. How much "training" does your typical college graduate with a bachelor's in teaching have before they're "plunked" into a classroom?

I had three 6 month long placements in three different classrooms as an undergrad. My TFA colleague had never been around kids prior to her first teaching gig. Big difference.

Right. And that's great. But the question originally posted was "how do we get top students (as defined by high school SAT and GPA) to enter public school teaching?" How many public school teachers who went your route had "high SATs and GPAs" in high school and were "top students?" All of the available statistics would suggest that the answer is very few. I'm not surprised you'd take offense that others ended up in your profession by going a different route. No, TFA isn't perfect -- far from it, in fact -- and yes, the program starts its participants off with less classroom experience that the typical first year teacher who went the traditional route, but TFA participants are, by and large, more driven than most college graduates and certainly, well, if I have to say it, "smarter" than your typical traditionally trained and educated teacher. AND, as I said, they're also required to get their master's degrees in education while they are working. It's not like they just hire a history major from Tufts and throw them in a classroom with zero training and zero expectation that they'll get any formal education or degree in teaching.

I personally know of several high school and college superstars who got into teaching through TFA and are sticking with it and prospering in the DMV. Honestly, and with all respect, the one issue that my daughter has sheepishly confided in me about the problems she faces in her day-to-day dealings with her colleagues and administrators is that she is obviously "smarter" than most of them. She certainly doesn't think that makes her "better" as a human being or anything like that, but she is certainly dealing with a less intellectually capable group of colleagues on a day-to-day basis as a public school teacher than she did as a college student at an elite college.

You and your daughter are clearly quite elitist. I can only imagine what her coworkers say about her to their mothers.

Also, that masters? Has nothing to do with what goes on in a classroom

[Anonymous]

"Honestly, and with all respect, the one issue that my daughter has sheepishly confided in me about the problems she faces in her day-to-day dealings with her colleagues and administrators is that she is obviously "smarter" than most of them. She certainly doesn't think that makes her "better" as a human being or anything like that, but she is certainly dealing with a less intellectually capable group of colleagues on a day-to-day basis as a public school teacher than she did as a college student at an elite college."

I have some big concerns about anyone who believes that they are smarter than other people or thinks of others as less intellectually capable. ESPECIALLY in education. If she believes this of her colleagues (at what? all of 24-28 years old?), she is most certainly thinking the same things of her students. That's a whole lotta arrogance going on. And quite frankly, NO ONE cares that your daughter went to what you call an "elite college". Years have a way of humbling folks. I know I thought I knew it all back in my twenties. Now, I'm in my 50's and it is very clear to me just how much I have yet to learn. I hope your daughter will learn and grow in a way where she no longer sees colleagues as "less smart" and learns to see the world in a less self centered way. Teaching is all about caring for people exactly as they are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
One way that top students can be steered into public school teaching is through Teach for America. It's how one of my kids -- an honors graduate of a top 10 liberal arts college -- entered the field. While many TFA alums move on to other things, some don't -- including my kid and several others who I know well.

In the case of my kid, though, she was able to stay in the profession notwithstanding the relatively low pay because (1) she had no student loans and (2) her husband -- a graduate of the same college but with a less impressive college transcript -- went into private industry and almost immediately began making more money than her.

Teach for America really devalues the importance of training to creating effective teachers. I am sure your daughter and her friends have the best of intentions, but you don't learn to teach by going through a a brief course the summer before you're plunked into a classroom. And most of the TFA alumni I know didn't go back to learn how to teach. Some of them went to get MEds so they could go into administration, because those who can't do administrate.

Which gets to one of the main things that drive people from the profession: Being overseen and evaluated by things that don't reflect your ability by people who don't understand your job. That, and the low pay, are going to drain the pool of talent faster than anything else.

Teach for America teachers are college graduates who are required to enroll in graduate school to get a master's in teaching at the same time that they are "plunked into a classroom." You left a critical part of the program out when you were disparaging it. How much "training" does your typical college graduate with a bachelor's in teaching have before they're "plunked" into a classroom?

I had three 6 month long placements in three different classrooms as an undergrad. My TFA colleague had never been around kids prior to her first teaching gig. Big difference.

Right. And that's great. But the question originally posted was "how do we get top students (as defined by high school SAT and GPA) to enter public school teaching?" How many public school teachers who went your route had "high SATs and GPAs" in high school and were "top students?" All of the available statistics would suggest that the answer is very few. I'm not surprised you'd take offense that others ended up in your profession by going a different route. No, TFA isn't perfect -- far from it, in fact -- and yes, the program starts its participants off with less classroom experience that the typical first year teacher who went the traditional route, but TFA participants are, by and large, more driven than most college graduates and certainly, well, if I have to say it, "smarter" than your typical traditionally trained and educated teacher. AND, as I said, they're also required to get their master's degrees in education while they are working. It's not like they just hire a history major from Tufts and throw them in a classroom with zero training and zero expectation that they'll get any formal education or degree in teaching.

I personally know of several high school and college superstars who got into teaching through TFA and are sticking with it and prospering in the DMV. Honestly, and with all respect, the one issue that my daughter has sheepishly confided in me about the problems she faces in her day-to-day dealings with her colleagues and administrators is that she is obviously "smarter" than most of them. She certainly doesn't think that makes her "better" as a human being or anything like that, but she is certainly dealing with a less intellectually capable group of colleagues on a day-to-day basis as a public school teacher than she did as a college student at an elite college.

Your daughter is ignorant and so are you. And neither of you know it - yet. What do you tell her when she says this bullsh!t?

[Anonymous]

I guess she has to say this about her daughter to mask her disappointment that she went into teaching.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
One way that top students can be steered into public school teaching is through Teach for America. It's how one of my kids -- an honors graduate of a top 10 liberal arts college -- entered the field. While many TFA alums move on to other things, some don't -- including my kid and several others who I know well.

In the case of my kid, though, she was able to stay in the profession notwithstanding the relatively low pay because (1) she had no student loans and (2) her husband -- a graduate of the same college but with a less impressive college transcript -- went into private industry and almost immediately began making more money than her.

Teach for America really devalues the importance of training to creating effective teachers. I am sure your daughter and her friends have the best of intentions, but you don't learn to teach by going through a a brief course the summer before you're plunked into a classroom. And most of the TFA alumni I know didn't go back to learn how to teach. Some of them went to get MEds so they could go into administration, because those who can't do administrate.

Which gets to one of the main things that drive people from the profession: Being overseen and evaluated by things that don't reflect your ability by people who don't understand your job. That, and the low pay, are going to drain the pool of talent faster than anything else.

Teach for America teachers are college graduates who are required to enroll in graduate school to get a master's in teaching at the same time that they are "plunked into a classroom." You left a critical part of the program out when you were disparaging it. How much "training" does your typical college graduate with a bachelor's in teaching have before they're "plunked" into a classroom?

I had three 6 month long placements in three different classrooms as an undergrad. My TFA colleague had never been around kids prior to her first teaching gig. Big difference.

Right. And that's great. But the question originally posted was "how do we get top students (as defined by high school SAT and GPA) to enter public school teaching?" How many public school teachers who went your route had "high SATs and GPAs" in high school and were "top students?" All of the available statistics would suggest that the answer is very few. I'm not surprised you'd take offense that others ended up in your profession by going a different route. No, TFA isn't perfect -- far from it, in fact -- and yes, the program starts its participants off with less classroom experience that the typical first year teacher who went the traditional route, but TFA participants are, by and large, more driven than most college graduates and certainly, well, if I have to say it, "smarter" than your typical traditionally trained and educated teacher. AND, as I said, they're also required to get their master's degrees in education while they are working. It's not like they just hire a history major from Tufts and throw them in a classroom with zero training and zero expectation that they'll get any formal education or degree in teaching.

I personally know of several high school and college superstars who got into teaching through TFA and are sticking with it and prospering in the DMV. Honestly, and with all respect, the one issue that my daughter has sheepishly confided in me about the problems she faces in her day-to-day dealings with her colleagues and administrators is that she is obviously "smarter" than most of them. She certainly doesn't think that makes her "better" as a human being or anything like that, but she is certainly dealing with a less intellectually capable group of colleagues on a day-to-day basis as a public school teacher than she did as a college student at an elite college.

I don't really care if others are smarter than I am. TFA teachers almost always end up quitting in my district (some make it to the end of the year but most don't). I don't need to be the smartest person in the room to teach 5-6 yr olds. I need other skills that most people do not possess. How do you attract top students? You don't because they aren't interested unless they can't figure out what to do with their lives so they go into TFA. Students don't need the smartest teachers. They need skilled teachers with a lot of patience and compassion.

That's great that you feel that way. But you should start another thread. This subject of this thread is "how do we get top students to enter public school teaching?" It isn't "how do we get skilled teachers with a lot of patience and compassion?"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
One way that top students can be steered into public school teaching is through Teach for America. It's how one of my kids -- an honors graduate of a top 10 liberal arts college -- entered the field. While many TFA alums move on to other things, some don't -- including my kid and several others who I know well.

In the case of my kid, though, she was able to stay in the profession notwithstanding the relatively low pay because (1) she had no student loans and (2) her husband -- a graduate of the same college but with a less impressive college transcript -- went into private industry and almost immediately began making more money than her.

Teach for America really devalues the importance of training to creating effective teachers. I am sure your daughter and her friends have the best of intentions, but you don't learn to teach by going through a a brief course the summer before you're plunked into a classroom. And most of the TFA alumni I know didn't go back to learn how to teach. Some of them went to get MEds so they could go into administration, because those who can't do administrate.

Which gets to one of the main things that drive people from the profession: Being overseen and evaluated by things that don't reflect your ability by people who don't understand your job. That, and the low pay, are going to drain the pool of talent faster than anything else.

Teach for America teachers are college graduates who are required to enroll in graduate school to get a master's in teaching at the same time that they are "plunked into a classroom." You left a critical part of the program out when you were disparaging it. How much "training" does your typical college graduate with a bachelor's in teaching have before they're "plunked" into a classroom?

I had three 6 month long placements in three different classrooms as an undergrad. My TFA colleague had never been around kids prior to her first teaching gig. Big difference.

Right. And that's great. But the question originally posted was "how do we get top students (as defined by high school SAT and GPA) to enter public school teaching?" How many public school teachers who went your route had "high SATs and GPAs" in high school and were "top students?" All of the available statistics would suggest that the answer is very few. I'm not surprised you'd take offense that others ended up in your profession by going a different route. No, TFA isn't perfect -- far from it, in fact -- and yes, the program starts its participants off with less classroom experience that the typical first year teacher who went the traditional route, but TFA participants are, by and large, more driven than most college graduates and certainly, well, if I have to say it, "smarter" than your typical traditionally trained and educated teacher. AND, as I said, they're also required to get their master's degrees in education while they are working. It's not like they just hire a history major from Tufts and throw them in a classroom with zero training and zero expectation that they'll get any formal education or degree in teaching.

I personally know of several high school and college superstars who got into teaching through TFA and are sticking with it and prospering in the DMV. Honestly, and with all respect, the one issue that my daughter has sheepishly confided in me about the problems she faces in her day-to-day dealings with her colleagues and administrators is that she is obviously "smarter" than most of them. She certainly doesn't think that makes her "better" as a human being or anything like that, but she is certainly dealing with a less intellectually capable group of colleagues on a day-to-day basis as a public school teacher than she did as a college student at an elite college.

I don't really care if others are smarter than I am. TFA teachers almost always end up quitting in my district (some make it to the end of the year but most don't). I don't need to be the smartest person in the room to teach 5-6 yr olds. I need other skills that most people do not possess. How do you attract top students? You don't because they aren't interested unless they can't figure out what to do with their lives so they go into TFA. Students don't need the smartest teachers. They need skilled teachers with a lot of patience and compassion.

That's great that you feel that way. But you should start another thread. This subject of this thread is "how do we get top students to enter public school teaching?" It isn't "how do we get skilled teachers with a lot of patience and compassion?"

DP but this post was in a response to promoting TFA as a means to get “top students” into teaching. I think a counter argument is pretty reasonable

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"Honestly, and with all respect, the one issue that my daughter has sheepishly confided in me about the problems she faces in her day-to-day dealings with her colleagues and administrators is that she is obviously "smarter" than most of them. She certainly doesn't think that makes her "better" as a human being or anything like that, but she is certainly dealing with a less intellectually capable group of colleagues on a day-to-day basis as a public school teacher than she did as a college student at an elite college."

I have some big concerns about anyone who believes that they are smarter than other people or thinks of others as less intellectually capable. ESPECIALLY in education. If she believes this of her colleagues (at what? all of 24-28 years old?), she is most certainly thinking the same things of her students. That's a whole lotta arrogance going on. And quite frankly, NO ONE cares that your daughter went to what you call an "elite college". Years have a way of humbling folks. I know I thought I knew it all back in my twenties. Now, I'm in my 50's and it is very clear to me just how much I have yet to learn. I hope your daughter will learn and grow in a way where she no longer sees colleagues as "less smart" and learns to see the world in a less self centered way. Teaching is all about caring for people exactly as they are.

Just. Stop.

Posters can't have it both ways. The WHOLE PREMISE of this thread is that top students typically don't go into teaching. The reason for that is quite simple: the pay is low and the position doesn't get the respect that it deserves.

It should surprise no one that a top graduate of a prestigious liberal arts college is going to be "smarter" than a typical teacher. Does that make her a better teacher? Not necessarily. Does it make her a better person? Definitely not. But is it the reality? Absolutely, yes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"Honestly, and with all respect, the one issue that my daughter has sheepishly confided in me about the problems she faces in her day-to-day dealings with her colleagues and administrators is that she is obviously "smarter" than most of them. She certainly doesn't think that makes her "better" as a human being or anything like that, but she is certainly dealing with a less intellectually capable group of colleagues on a day-to-day basis as a public school teacher than she did as a college student at an elite college."

I have some big concerns about anyone who believes that they are smarter than other people or thinks of others as less intellectually capable. ESPECIALLY in education. If she believes this of her colleagues (at what? all of 24-28 years old?), she is most certainly thinking the same things of her students. That's a whole lotta arrogance going on. And quite frankly, NO ONE cares that your daughter went to what you call an "elite college". Years have a way of humbling folks. I know I thought I knew it all back in my twenties. Now, I'm in my 50's and it is very clear to me just how much I have yet to learn. I hope your daughter will learn and grow in a way where she no longer sees colleagues as "less smart" and learns to see the world in a less self centered way. Teaching is all about caring for people exactly as they are.

And one more thing: my daughter is not "24-28" years old. She's been teaching for well over a decade.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I guess she has to say this about her daughter to mask her disappointment that she went into teaching.

I'm not even remotely disappointed that she went into teaching. To the contrary, I'm immensely proud of her. I also don't care how smart she is or that she's smarter than the typical teacher who went the traditional route. I'm just telling it like it is: the typical public school teacher does not have her high school GPA, SAT scores, or elite private school education.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I guess she has to say this about her daughter to mask her disappointment that she went into teaching.

I'm not even remotely disappointed that she went into teaching. To the contrary, I'm immensely proud of her. I also don't care how smart she is or that she's smarter than the typical teacher who went the traditional route. I'm just telling it like it is: the typical public school teacher does not have her high school GPA, SAT scores, or elite private school education.

They don't need them anyway. Teaching requires a different skill set.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
One way that top students can be steered into public school teaching is through Teach for America. It's how one of my kids -- an honors graduate of a top 10 liberal arts college -- entered the field. While many TFA alums move on to other things, some don't -- including my kid and several others who I know well.

In the case of my kid, though, she was able to stay in the profession notwithstanding the relatively low pay because (1) she had no student loans and (2) her husband -- a graduate of the same college but with a less impressive college transcript -- went into private industry and almost immediately began making more money than her.

Teach for America really devalues the importance of training to creating effective teachers. I am sure your daughter and her friends have the best of intentions, but you don't learn to teach by going through a a brief course the summer before you're plunked into a classroom. And most of the TFA alumni I know didn't go back to learn how to teach. Some of them went to get MEds so they could go into administration, because those who can't do administrate.

Which gets to one of the main things that drive people from the profession: Being overseen and evaluated by things that don't reflect your ability by people who don't understand your job. That, and the low pay, are going to drain the pool of talent faster than anything else.

Teach for America teachers are college graduates who are required to enroll in graduate school to get a master's in teaching at the same time that they are "plunked into a classroom." You left a critical part of the program out when you were disparaging it. How much "training" does your typical college graduate with a bachelor's in teaching have before they're "plunked" into a classroom?

I had three 6 month long placements in three different classrooms as an undergrad. My TFA colleague had never been around kids prior to her first teaching gig. Big difference.

Right. And that's great. But the question originally posted was "how do we get top students (as defined by high school SAT and GPA) to enter public school teaching?" How many public school teachers who went your route had "high SATs and GPAs" in high school and were "top students?" All of the available statistics would suggest that the answer is very few. I'm not surprised you'd take offense that others ended up in your profession by going a different route. No, TFA isn't perfect -- far from it, in fact -- and yes, the program starts its participants off with less classroom experience that the typical first year teacher who went the traditional route, but TFA participants are, by and large, more driven than most college graduates and certainly, well, if I have to say it, "smarter" than your typical traditionally trained and educated teacher. AND, as I said, they're also required to get their master's degrees in education while they are working. It's not like they just hire a history major from Tufts and throw them in a classroom with zero training and zero expectation that they'll get any formal education or degree in teaching.

I personally know of several high school and college superstars who got into teaching through TFA and are sticking with it and prospering in the DMV. Honestly, and with all respect, the one issue that my daughter has sheepishly confided in me about the problems she faces in her day-to-day dealings with her colleagues and administrators is that she is obviously "smarter" than most of them. She certainly doesn't think that makes her "better" as a human being or anything like that, but she is certainly dealing with a less intellectually capable group of colleagues on a day-to-day basis as a public school teacher than she did as a college student at an elite college.

I don't really care if others are smarter than I am. TFA teachers almost always end up quitting in my district (some make it to the end of the year but most don't). I don't need to be the smartest person in the room to teach 5-6 yr olds. I need other skills that most people do not possess. How do you attract top students? You don't because they aren't interested unless they can't figure out what to do with their lives so they go into TFA. Students don't need the smartest teachers. They need skilled teachers with a lot of patience and compassion.

That's great that you feel that way. But you should start another thread. This subject of this thread is "how do we get top students to enter public school teaching?" It isn't "how do we get skilled teachers with a lot of patience and compassion?"

DP but this post was in a response to promoting TFA as a means to get “top students” into teaching. I think a counter argument is pretty reasonable

Not if the counter argument is effectively "I disagree that we need top students teaching, what we need are ones with patience and compassion."