Do the elderly always end up alone?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My aunt can't speak or read english or drive, came to USA at 75 because all 3 kids came here for higher studies, found jobs and settled here instead of going back to war torn country. She was all alone there after her husband died. She can't live in a retirement home and hard to find home same ethnicity aids here. So far she is mobile and her kids take turns hosting her but nobody's home during day. Kids have to come home to take her to her appointments. She is deteriorating and its scary what would happen?

I feel like these kids (who all moved overseas) need to problem solve for her.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think many (not all) families didn't deal with this to the extent we are seeing now. People are living longer. My grandparents all died when I was in middle school. So people weren't giving it too much thought. Now, my parents' generation is living longer, but many don't have the means to pay for elder care. Or pay to move. Pay to downsize, since even a smaller place frequently more expensive than the old pile.

I am now in the process of dealing with my parents and siblings in-laws deal with elder issues. It is so sad to watch, both for them, and for the thought that thesis what is ahead.

I feel for you, OP. But the PP's advice of grieving, then get busy living and making these years the best they can be, resonated with me.

The oldest generation is now living so long that the "kids" who are expected to be able to take care of them are not spring chickens themselves. My brother is in his sixties and recently had some kind of back operation. Guess who can no longer help his 90 year old mother in and out of bed and into the car, up and down the stairs, etc. We can foresee a scenario in which our parents live to their late 90's and we are in our seventies, and instead of caring for ourselves we are caring for an even older generation. Newsflash: There are people in their seventies with significant health issues who probably shouldn't be driving, who suffer from cataracts, who struggle driving at night, etc. And yet we will be the caregivers for people in their nineties! When do WE get to be old and looked after?

Well if you are watching this happen to the generation before you, plan now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Previously worked on elder care and had a parent who was in a full-care facility for many years.

Bottom line in future: I predict elder care will be increasingly done by medication, robotics and technology. Essentially, warehousing the elderly in larger and larger facilities.

Even now, many elderly are over medicated almost to the point of stupor and are often completely bed-ridden, to be able for staff to manage them easier and spend less time on their care.

Profit is the motivator. Most assisted living and
Skilled nursing facilities are corporately owned now and are primarily interested in profits.

In China, they already have huge high-rise facilities where the elderly are assisted by technology (robotic meal delivery, sensors/cameras in room, beds/wetness sensors, robots lifing/moving people) where all of it is monitored by a central "command post."
Basically, no need for staff unless/until a monitor shows distress or a specific need.

I am certain this will be elder care in future America.

Welcome to the 21st Century

This is horrible.

It may be better than having grandma sit in her soaking wet bed waiting for the overworked nurse's aide to come and change her sheets.

Or falling down the stairs in her own home that's unsafe to live in. Or allowing water damage in a bathroom to get so bad that whole forms in the subfloor.

But what some of us are saying: WHY isn't there a better in between option??? That makes it safe and social for them and takes some of the work out of it for their adult kids? And allows those adult kids to be more compassionate and caring towards their elderly parents?

I'll be honest, I am shocked at some of the attitudes and views I've read on this thread. Viewing parents as nothing more than a hassle. Such lacking in empathy. While it IS hard and those views are understandable at some level, I just don't understand the . . . sterility or lack of wanting to care for parents that some of you are displaying. So I guess the answer to the original question is, yes, in this country, get ready to be alone.

That's really sad. And scary.

Right, it is not like you could not see the baby boom generation coming from decades ago.

But we are a capitalist country. The emphasis is on making money and rewarding those who do. DCUM parents choose their kid’s college based upon ROI (not quality of education or best place for my kid to mature into an adult).

Many other countries have better values, and policies which reflect them.

I don't understand what you are trying to say.

[Anonymous]

Nowadays, very likely, and one should plan accordingly. When the pension systems were implemented less than 100 years ago, nobody was expected to live over age of 65. Elderly lived in their own homes, in many cases farms, which the eldest son took over, thus being able to earn a living and obtain housing for his family. The elderly took care of the children in return. All this has changed. The elderly live until 90+ and our medical system is able to keep them living way past which was possible before. Just high blood pressure pills will probably add 2+ decades to your life. Expectation of your "kids" to abandon their families, earn no income and cater to you, while you've provided no childcare or no ways to earn income or provide housing (i.e. farm) is completely unrealistic. Elder care has historically always relied on mutual help between generations. But now it's another example of the wants of the me-generation, who had it easy when young, getting help from their parents, and now expect help from their children, providing nothing in return. It obviously isn't sustainable. So yes, expect to end up alone if you have not helped your adult kids with their childrearing , housing and income stream. The society will not survive by transferring everything to the old on the account of the young: just look at Western population pyramids.

[Anonymous]

I wanted to clarify that elder care has never functioned due to "moral obligation", but due to an actual wealth transfer from the elders to the young not at time of death, but when the young reached adulthood (i.e. when the young were about 20 to start their own families and the "elder" was in their 40-50s). Eldercare has always been the job of the eldest son. The other siblings had to make their own way in the world and were never expected to care for their parents. Hence the strong preference for boys in all cultures (hopefully one survives or China one-child policy), inheritance laws not leaving daughters anything, factories and farms with names Somebody & Sons etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Not in The Villages. Lol, a friend’s mother is living there and her behavior is like that of a 16-year-old. Her social life is amazing but embarrassing and ridiculous at the same time. It’s really nuts. But she is the opposite of alone.

If something happens to my wife, I plan to retire to The Villages and hit on a 300 lb woman with platinum dyed hair and a MAGA hat.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I wanted to clarify that elder care has never functioned due to "moral obligation", but due to an actual wealth transfer from the elders to the young not at time of death, but when the young reached adulthood (i.e. when the young were about 20 to start their own families and the "elder" was in their 40-50s). Eldercare has always been the job of the eldest son. The other siblings had to make their own way in the world and were never expected to care for their parents. Hence the strong preference for boys in all cultures (hopefully one survives or China one-child policy), inheritance laws not leaving daughters anything, factories and farms with names Somebody & Sons etc.

I mean, speak for your own family. Mine were immigrants (both sides) and not farmers. Just normal lower middle class nurses, teachers, factory workers, dental hygienists, etc. And all of my grandparents aged in home until the very end (or until they went into the hospital and passed there following a short illness). Ditto my great grandparents (that I was alive to know) and many of my aunts/uncles/cousins. I cannot think of a single on who went to AL. This was moral obligation.

I don't think the youngers feel the same ability to do this, as they've all sort of scattered out of the rust belt state we grew up in. Some are still there and caring for parents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Previously worked on elder care and had a parent who was in a full-care facility for many years.

Bottom line in future: I predict elder care will be increasingly done by medication, robotics and technology. Essentially, warehousing the elderly in larger and larger facilities.

Even now, many elderly are over medicated almost to the point of stupor and are often completely bed-ridden, to be able for staff to manage them easier and spend less time on their care.

Profit is the motivator. Most assisted living and
Skilled nursing facilities are corporately owned now and are primarily interested in profits.

In China, they already have huge high-rise facilities where the elderly are assisted by technology (robotic meal delivery, sensors/cameras in room, beds/wetness sensors, robots lifing/moving people) where all of it is monitored by a central "command post."
Basically, no need for staff unless/until a monitor shows distress or a specific need.

I am certain this will be elder care in future America.

Welcome to the 21st Century

Ugh. That’s why it is imperative to avoid corporate-owned facilities and to look for non-profit CCRCs. Also take care of your health!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My grandfather may have lived alone but he was most definitely not lonely or bored. He worked full-time until the last weeks of his life. He had many friends through his job. He had a girlfriend who he enjoyed going out for meals with. They spoke on the phone every night. He had many loving nieces and nephews in the same city who he visited with on a very regular basis. His kids and grandkids came to visit or he traveled to visit them fairly regularly. He kept busy and he was in no way housebound as he took the subway around the city and walked miles.

My aunt was widowed not long ago after a very long and wonderful marriage. Before my uncle died they kept busy with their family, travel and social clubs. About a year after being widowed she met a man who is now her travel companion. She is physically very active. She is aging well!

Thank you for sharing these positive stories!

[Anonymous]

Without an actual wealth transfer early on, the old are "eating the young", which is exactly what is happening. The old in the US are the wealthiest part of the population, which has never been the case in history. So go ahead and age in place, having your childless kids run around you in circles. Only: no grandchildren for you. Nobody is going to give you grandkids when you finally die at 90+ with your own kids at 60+, who never had the means to buy a house or have a family.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Without an actual wealth transfer early on, the old are "eating the young", which is exactly what is happening. The old in the US are the wealthiest part of the population, which has never been the case in history. So go ahead and age in place, having your childless kids run around you in circles. Only: no grandchildren for you. Nobody is going to give you grandkids when you finally die at 90+ with your own kids at 60+, who never had the means to buy a house or have a family.

Yikes to the anger in this post.

But, maybe the problem is not only wealth transfer but the systems in place -or lack thereof- to assist families in reasonably and humanely deal with aging family members. It's kind of a tragedy, imo. And I don't know why we accept it.

[Anonymous]

No anger here Traditional wealth transfer was the system in place (from father to son, including a profession and all skills from early on), which got dismantled due to changes in the society (industrial development, WW2, women entering workforce, technology) and resulting economic growth. It's over, but the old refuse to believe it, holding on to what's theirs and demanding more. How do you deal with aging family members when you live 1000s miles apart having built up your own life from scratch, which took decades, have a family and young kids? You have a mortgage, student loans, pay for daycare, schools, save for college? You don't, it's impossible. Realistically, the old will very likely overwhelm all systems: healthcare (hospitals and AL), financials (social security), housing market (staying in place), you name it. Add to this long life expectancy. We accept it, because we don't know what else to do, there has never been a society with so many old people holding so much wealth living so long. Most likely it'll indeed evolve into technology based care for us (robots) and we have to get used to it. Just like we got used to kids' daycares and all-day schools. We don't expect our kids to do brain operations on us, we also need to get used to the reality that lawyers, doctors, college professors or anyone else who spent years getting their life on track are not the people who are going to buy our groceries, clean our houses or change our diapers. I can guarantee you'll not be able to manipulate current young to the same degree as us middle-aged folk with your "moral obligation" talk. Because moral obligation also used to work both ways.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Nowadays, very likely, and one should plan accordingly. When the pension systems were implemented less than 100 years ago, nobody was expected to live over age of 65. Elderly lived in their own homes, in many cases farms, which the eldest son took over, thus being able to earn a living and obtain housing for his family. The elderly took care of the children in return. All this has changed. The elderly live until 90+ and our medical system is able to keep them living way past which was possible before. Just high blood pressure pills will probably add 2+ decades to your life. Expectation of your "kids" to abandon their families, earn no income and cater to you, while you've provided no childcare or no ways to earn income or provide housing (i.e. farm) is completely unrealistic. Elder care has historically always relied on mutual help between generations. But now it's another example of the wants of the me-generation, who had it easy when young, getting help from their parents, and now expect help from their children, providing nothing in return. It obviously isn't sustainable. So yes, expect to end up alone if you have not helped your adult kids with their childrearing , housing and income stream. The society will not survive by transferring everything to the old on the account of the young: just look at Western population pyramids.

In what universe has a parent “provided nothing” to the children they raised?

And your little transactional take on how families work makes no mention of love or responsibility.

What a sad, hallow human you must be.

[Anonymous]

Not my parents and ILs. They moved in with their offsprings. Contributed to the household financially to cover their part and also to ease the running of the household. They kept in touch with their siblings, nephews and nieces, ILs, through WhatsApp. They are valuable members of the family. My dad and FIL, died peacefully at home. They had medical attendants to look after them and their near and dear ones were with them. They were visited by their siblings and ILs. They kept in touch with their friends and family.

BUT, they are from a different culture where multigenerational living is the norm.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
In what universe has a parent “provided nothing” to the children they raised?

And your little transactional take on how families work makes no mention of love or responsibility.

What a sad, hallow human you must be.

Oh, do I have bad news for you! Your whole life is a representation of transactions of one kind or the other. In fact elder care itself is based on a social contract between generations, where everybody contributes to raising the children and in return they get taken care of when old.

You don't seem to understand this. I'm not surprised, because you probably have no experience with a multigenerational household. The point is, taking care of minors is not the achievement you seem to think it is, especially the type of care now where kids go from daycares to all-day schools. You're literally obliged to provide this care. In a society where the young take care of the old, the old contribute to the ADULT children. It includes the transfer of (most) wealth before they die (yes, material as well as knowledge, remember when people considered the old wise?). It also includes the transfer of POWER. In a multigenerational household the head of household is the adult child, not the old. So this entitles considering your adult kids actual adults (not constant critique), getting along with your adult children (especially daughter-in-law, who in most cases does elder care), contributing ACTIVELY to childrearing (day-to-day when living in a multigenerational household and before that, remember when kids used to spend their summers at grandma's?), teaching the adult kids all necessary knowledge and provide finances to actually adult (no failure to launch, women knew how to cook and take care of the house, men knew household fixes, this IN ADDITION to providing knowledge/finances for jobs), and often, surprise-surprise -- arranged marriages, because a marriage of your son or daughter into another respectable family provided stable lifelong households. Are you perhaps surprised why family matriarch used to have such influence on their kids finding spouses? Does it make sense now?

In other words, elder care is not some kind of lotto win at the end of your life. It's a culmination of your contribution to your own family OVER your lifetime. So it's not that the young are not doing their part (why are my adult kids not taking care of meeeee, not moving in with meeeee, not doing what I want!), it's that the current old in most cases have dropped their rope. You must be one of them.