Curious - are there several disruptive children in your kid's class, by chance?

[Anonymous]

OP was actually talking about the traditional, Big 3 types of schools that teach in a way that isn't always best for kids who need more redirection.

[Anonymous]

I don't think this is a private school issue. I've talked to friends with children in public and parish schools and they agree that there is a surprisingly high number of disruptive students in classrooms. I do think that the private schools have less disruption and better opportunities for dealing with such behavior. Unfortunately, they aren't as successful as I'd like but we think that overall our schools are better for our children, warts and all.

I don't raise many concerns above the classroom teacher but when I do I usually start with school admin with "I know you've heard this before . . ." so they don't try to tell me that I'm the first parent to raise the issue.

[Anonymous]

"Obviously, if your DC needs a less busy environment in order to focus, a school that doesn't "weed out" kids who exhibit such behaviors, may not be a good fit."

First, I never used the words "weed out" nor did I suggest that the school counsel these children out. I would prefer that they help these children learn how to conduct themselves in a polite and respectful manner in a structured learning environment. Parents tend to chose a school based on the level of structure provided in that learning environment called a classroom.

Second, I, and the other families that have talked with teachers and administrators about our particular issues, would not characterize the environment as "busy." These disruptive behaviors are not isolated instances but repeated behaviors that interrupt and disrupt the teacher's efforts to conduct class.

Third, some of the more creative and clever disruptions come in the 4th to 6th grade years when smart kids start to test some of their negotiating skills but haven't yet learned how to moderate their actions/words. Teachers can do a great deal to help these children grow into companionable classmates but it takes a commitment on the parents part too. I have my own little argumentative negotiator to deal with at home and it would be unacceptable to us to have him honing his skills in a disruptive manner at school. And I do check with his teachers to make sure that he's being himself at school but disrupting the classroom.

[Anonymous]

Well, but what seems to be in dispute here is what the appropriate level of structure is.

In situations where some parents complain about other parents' kids and where the administration doesn't seem eager to oust the kids being complained about, maybe the other parents (who, presumably, also chose the school based on level of structure) and the administration agree that what's happening in the classroom isn't as "disruptive" as the complaining parents believe. In short, maybe the the kids who get derailed by arguing and negotiation are the misfits -- not the negotiators and arguers. And one person's interruption or tangent may be another person's teachable moment.

Of course, what you may be talking about and what others are describing may be different phenomena. Certainly "weeding out" and kindergarten have been mentioned repeatedly in this thread.

[Anonymous]

[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]I have just learned through this thread that I'm the parent of a weed who should be discarded because we are still working on helping our ADHD child, who has made great strides but is still not perfect.

My child has consumed a lot of the teacher's time. But so have the ones who can't read, the ones who struggle with math, etc. . . Do you have the same callous attitude towards those kids?[/quote]

I would not characterize the disruptive children as ADHD. Some of the disruptive behaviors I hear about include: witty but harsh commentary throughout the day directed at classmates and teachers; talking/singing to themselves in class, even while tests are being given; wandering in and out of the classroom; constantly arguing with teachers and classmates; repeatedly raising extraneous issues in attempt to get the class off topic; not doing homework and offering up crazy excuses; talking disrespectfully to adults; refusing to comply with teachers request to talk privately outside of class; angry outburst if things go awry. To me this is just bad behavior. And I would agree that some of the famlies are on the wealthier side of wealthy.[/quote]

Much of this long laundry list looks to me like red flags for developmental issues, ( ASD, ADHD)not "bad behavior." Granted, a lot of parents are in denial about these issues but I would really caution you about labeling these kids "bad." Sometimes these issues don't become apparent until the kids meet the increased demands of school. I've been on both sides of this -- a child with an ASD (who exhibited many of the behaviors on this list) and another who is typical but has had kids with challenging issues in her class -- and I would just caution some compassion. Yes, the school should be working with the parents but I can assure you that if these kids do have developmental disorders, it will catch up with them by mid-elementary and they are unlikely to still be in a school that can't their needs.

[Anonymous]

[quote=Anonymous]"Obviously, if your DC needs a less busy environment in order to focus, a school that doesn't "weed out" kids who exhibit such behaviors, may not be a good fit."

First, I never used the words "weed out" nor did I suggest that the school counsel these children out. I would prefer that they help these children learn how to conduct themselves in a polite and respectful manner in a structured learning environment. Parents tend to chose a school based on the level of structure provided in that learning environment called a classroom.

Second, I, and the other families that have talked with teachers and administrators about our particular issues, would not characterize the environment as "busy." These disruptive behaviors are not isolated instances but repeated behaviors that interrupt and disrupt the teacher's efforts to conduct class.

Third, some of the more creative and clever disruptions come in the 4th to 6th grade years when smart kids start to test some of their negotiating skills but haven't yet learned how to moderate their actions/words. Teachers can do a great deal to help these children grow into companionable classmates but it takes a commitment on the parents part too. I have my own little argumentative negotiator to deal with at home and it would be unacceptable to us to have him honing his skills in a disruptive manner at school. And I do check with his teachers to make sure that he's being himself at school but disrupting the classroom. [/quote]


Can you share with us some of the positive and also perhaps some less appealing characteristics of your older children as well?

Are your children always kind to others?

If so . . . how?

If not . . . how and why not?

Also, can you describe for us some of the positive and negative behaviors your children may have learned or inherited from their parents?

[Anonymous]

[quote=Anonymous]I don't think this is a private school issue. I've talked to friends with children in public and parish schools and they agree that there is a surprisingly high number of disruptive students in classrooms. [b]I do think that the private schools have less disruption and better opportunities for dealing with such behavior. [/b] Unfortunately, they aren't as successful as I'd like but we think that overall our schools are better for our children, warts and all.

I don't raise many concerns above the classroom teacher but when I do I usually start with school admin with "I know you've heard this before . . ." so they don't try to tell me that I'm the first parent to raise the issue.

[/quote]

From our experience, in private and a "good" public, I don't think this is necessarily true. In both cases we blamed the kids' behavior on out-to-lunch parents, and we found these parents exist in private schools just as much as in the public. There is a difference with LD kids, however, because some private schools won't take them because they don't have the resources to provide appropriate support.

[Anonymous]

OP here. My child isn't at Lowell, just to be clear. I appreciate the wide variety of thoughts here.

I am frustrated on behalf of my son who explains in detail several days a week how this or that class got derailed temporarily by this child and that child. Over and over, all day long except P.E. The teachers are decent enough so they get things back on track and anticipate that Child X needs accommodation X and Child Y needs a wiggle seat and Child Z needs respectful private reminders not to shout out constantly. Then there's child A and child B ....Teachers are doing the best they can.

My point in posting, I guess, is wonderment about this ratio. The ratio of high-needs vs. standard needs is, frankly, surprising and disappointing to me as a tuition paying parent. I don't expect every child to be a robotic silent angel -- but I sure didn't expect THIS many kids who, in their own right, could each monopolize the teacher's attention.

I find it hard to believe that these traits weren't observed in admissions playdates and on reports by WPPSI testers AND in reports from preschools. Yet the admissions committee said collectively, aw what the heck, why not? And then turned a bunch of other children away.

I have something like 6 family members with diagnosed ADHD so I am not unsympathetic to the challenges they face, I swear. I was just hoping, by opting for a selective school, to avoid us all being in the same tiny room all year.

[Anonymous]

OP here again. I've observed the class many times first-hand, enough to form my own opinion independent of my son's. I felt I had to, before I raise my concerns with the teacher or school. Can't rely on his recounting of the day, which could include embellishment or Star Wars analogies.

[Anonymous]

"Can you share with us some of the positive and also perhaps some less appealing characteristics of your older children as well?

Are your children always kind to others?

If so . . . how?

If not . . . how and why not?

Also, can you describe for us some of the positive and negative behaviors your children may have learned or inherited from their parents?"


You seem to be taking this very personally. We are talking about disruptive children who fall outside the norm. My children and their friends are not angels but they aren't disrupting a classroom. And the fact of the matter is that we pay a hefty tuition and I don't think it's to much to ask for the students to be polite and respectful of teachers and classmates I know this is possible because we've had wonderful years when our children were lucky enough to be in a "section" of a class without the disruptive child(ren).

[Anonymous]

[quote=Anonymous]"Can you share with us some of the positive and also perhaps some less appealing characteristics of your older children as well?

Are your children always kind to others?

If so . . . how?

If not . . . how and why not?

Also, can you describe for us some of the positive and negative behaviors your children may have learned or inherited from their parents?"


You seem to be taking this very personally. We are talking about disruptive children who fall outside the norm. My children and their friends are not angels but they aren't disrupting a classroom. And the fact of the matter is that we pay a hefty tuition and I don't think it's to much to ask for the students to be polite and respectful of teachers and classmates I know this is possible because we've had wonderful years when our children were lucky enough to be in a "section" of a class without the disruptive child(ren).
[/quote]




There is no reason anyone would take this personally. You seem to have a quite a bit to say on the topic and you seem quite satisfied with your children's progress so you were asked a couple of follow up questions. It's fine if you are unable or unwilling to answer the follow up questions.

However, by not answering these basic questions it simply demonstrates your premises are empty and that you are not willing to either examine or judge your family by your own standards.

That’s okay; you’re fine, enjoy the rest of your day.

[Anonymous]

True story. This occurred several years ago and I'll try to provide as little identifying info as possible. There was a very disruptive child in one of our DC's classes. We were lucky enough not to have had our child placed in that child's classroom but heard lots of stories about recess incidents involving this child. We also heard stories year after year about the classroom disruptions caused by this child and I know of 4 families who left the school over the years specifically because of the school's mishandling of the situation. The school finally had to tell the family that the child could not return. A year later a new student, who hailed from the school the disruptive child had gone to from our school, entered the class. It turns out the family left their old school specifically because of the disruptive child and that school's mishandling of the problem! It was purely a coincidence that they ended up at our school but they jokingly remarked that at least they didn't have to worry about this child ending up in their child's class again.

Made me wonder what was (or was not) in the child's file.

[Anonymous]

"However, by not answering these basic questions it simply demonstrates your premises are empty and that you are not willing to either examine or judge your family by your own standards. "


Is this a deposition or a blog?

[Anonymous]

[quote=Anonymous]"However, by not answering these basic questions it simply demonstrates your premises are empty and that you are not willing to either examine or judge your family by your own standards. "


Is this a deposition or a blog? [/quote]


Good question.

I think we have the parent of one those disruptive kids with us.

[Anonymous]

[quote=Anonymous]True story. This occurred several years ago and I'll try to provide as little identifying info as possible. There was a very disruptive child in one of our DC's classes. We were lucky enough not to have had our child placed in that child's classroom but heard lots of stories about recess incidents involving this child. We also heard stories year after year about the classroom disruptions caused by this child and I know of 4 families who left the school over the years specifically because of the school's mishandling of the situation. The school finally had to tell the family that the child could not return. A year later a new student, who hailed from the school the disruptive child had gone to from our school, entered the class. It turns out the family left their old school specifically because of the disruptive child and that school's mishandling of the problem! It was purely a coincidence that they ended up at our school but they jokingly remarked that at least they didn't have to worry about this child ending up in their child's class again.

Made me wonder what was (or was not) in the child's file. [/quote]

The first school sounds like our school. I don't want to out the school, because we liked it over all. But is the first letter of the school a "G"? (Hopefully that narrows it down to a handful of schools, without actually naming the school.)