We keep arguing about work and home responsibilities because we're both overwhelmed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would have kept him in the $500-600k job, to be honest.

He now seems to be in the worst of all worlds- not earning an amazing salary but too busy to pick up his shsre of the house work.

This. What was the point of leaving the harder job if he still can’t pull his weight?

OP here. Our life now is night and day from the other job.

(1) He was unhealthy - didn't sleep enough, didn't work out at all. Was sitting at a computer all day and night. You can only do that for so many years before permanently harming your health.

(2) He never wanted to have sex. We had date nights here and there, but I'd basically get to interact with him for an 90 min a day. He was always stressed about work.

(3) He worked one full day per weekend on average. I was really lonely.

(4) Our kid had no real relationship with him.

(5) I couldn't pursue my professional passions - and I felt unfulfilled because of that.


I love having him around on weekends, having him putting the kids to bed, practice the piano with the oldest, seeing how much they love him and how attached to him they are, spending time with him after bedtime, because really he is my best friend and I love him a lot. Planning trips together, going on dates, just watching videos and laughing and cuddling. And a better sex life.

We have friends who stayed in "high finance" and I see what that brand of fatherhood looks like, and it's not for us.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would have kept him in the $500-600k job, to be honest.

He now seems to be in the worst of all worlds- not earning an amazing salary but too busy to pick up his shsre of the house work.

This. What was the point of leaving the harder job if he still can’t pull his weight?

OP here. Our life now is night and day from the other job.

(1) He was unhealthy - didn't sleep enough, didn't work out at all. Was sitting at a computer all day and night. You can only do that for so many years before permanently harming your health.

(2) He never wanted to have sex. We had date nights here and there, but I'd basically get to interact with him for an 90 min a day. He was always stressed about work.

(3) He worked one full day per weekend on average. I was really lonely.

(4) Our kid had no real relationship with him.

(5) I couldn't pursue my professional passions - and I felt unfulfilled because of that.


I love having him around on weekends, having him putting the kids to bed, practice the piano with the oldest, seeing how much they love him and how attached to him they are, spending time with him after bedtime, because really he is my best friend and I love him a lot. Planning trips together, going on dates, just watching videos and laughing and cuddling. And a better sex life.

We have friends who stayed in "high finance" and I see what that brand of fatherhood looks like, and it's not for us.

My husband works a lot and earns a lot. He always wants to have sex, like always. I don’t think he has ever not wanted to in the 20+ years we have been together. Sure, he goes to bed and is sleeping but he would be fine if I woke him up.

You sound like a good wife who loves her husband. Maybe just accept your current life as is. Your Dh sounds kind of selfish but usually there is one in each relationship. DH is the giver and I’m the taker in our marriage. Dh is always giving. He has always loved me more.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

There are plenty of dads of young children at his salary level that get their work done in a way that allows them to be a contributing partner at home.

Oh I wasn't saying it can't be done. I'm saying OP's DH is presenting this as a fait accompli; his hours are inflexible, his workouts are a priority, therefore she's gotta handle it all. OK. Well, but it seems he's also expecting her to do everything for these kids. There's a name for that: it's a SAHM. As long as he wants OP to have a job, and he wants nothing to change for him, that means they outsource. And on $270K combined salary in this area, that's either tricky or impossible while also paying for daycare. So. He wants his job to be the only contribution (and frankly to have this 1955 arrangement)? Time to bring in more money dude.

Now of course the easier, more equitable, healthier, and better-choice-as-a-father choice, is him actually participating in the family he created and working with his wife to help life move forward. But that's "impossible" because he's so "thorough", can't "multi-task", etc.

It's BS. And yes I sound annoyed. As another PP pointed out, DH is running quite the con, and OP sounds like she's genuinely struggling. I think that sucks.

I posted before that I now stay home but used to be in a similar situation. I actually also worked in finance and kept cutting down. At the end, I was doing more accounting and budgeting for flexibility, which is far different than more glamorous finance jobs in nyc.

In OP’s situation, I think her DH should try to get a higher paying job. 170 is pretty low. I made more than that fresh out of grad school 20 years ago. If he isn’t helping much around the house, he should at least earn more to get you more paid help.

In my house, I told Dh to go hard in his career and he did. He doesn’t worry about pick up or drop off or getting a kid to dance or soccer. I don’t get mad at him for never going grocery shopping or buying a birthday gift. I stopped working when he earned 800k. He now earns $2-3m.

I mean, this is disgusting and a terrible thing to model to both sons and daughters. But you do you.

To add, you do you but please don’t recommend it to others who may not understand the implications.

NP. I think that PP sounds absolutely insufferable but to be fair, at least her family prioritized having ONE parent act like the kids matter to them. Everyone else is suggesting that OP and her husband BOTH outsource parenting as much as possible.

I think you are calling me insufferable. DH helps out most days with driving. OP’s kids are still younger. My kids are older and we have 2-3 kid activities per day. He helps with at least one kid everyday. He may pick up a kid on his way home from work or come home and take my daughter to dance. What he does not have to do is leave work by 4 or 430 and be in traffic being stressed on whether he is going to make it on time to pick up our kid from school at 4:30. I used to have to pick up two kids from two different places and it was very stressful for me.

We often have conflicts and we carpool. We have 3 kids and even with one who stayed home, we have conflicts. Before people say we are over scheduled, you don’t always get to pick your practice time or if there is a match or game. If your kid is on an academic team, there are practices, they may stay after school or need to go to a partner’s home. My kids are all also very social and we are the hang out house. I often host play dates and hang outs and drive kids and friends.

If you are the same person, please know that I called you insufferable not because of how you have structured your family life, but rather for the absolutely ridiculous salary numbers you were throwing around. Most of us normal folk think people who say sh!t like 170K is “pretty low” and that they couldn’t figure out how to ease back until one parent was making almost 1M are complete a-holes. Insufferable.

Hope that clears up any confusion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would have kept him in the $500-600k job, to be honest.

He now seems to be in the worst of all worlds- not earning an amazing salary but too busy to pick up his shsre of the house work.

This. What was the point of leaving the harder job if he still can’t pull his weight?

OP here. Our life now is night and day from the other job.

(1) He was unhealthy - didn't sleep enough, didn't work out at all. Was sitting at a computer all day and night. You can only do that for so many years before permanently harming your health.

(2) He never wanted to have sex. We had date nights here and there, but I'd basically get to interact with him for an 90 min a day. He was always stressed about work.

(3) He worked one full day per weekend on average. I was really lonely.

(4) Our kid had no real relationship with him.

(5) I couldn't pursue my professional passions - and I felt unfulfilled because of that.


I love having him around on weekends, having him putting the kids to bed, practice the piano with the oldest, seeing how much they love him and how attached to him they are, spending time with him after bedtime, because really he is my best friend and I love him a lot. Planning trips together, going on dates, just watching videos and laughing and cuddling. And a better sex life.

We have friends who stayed in "high finance" and I see what that brand of fatherhood looks like, and it's not for us.

OP this is all very helpful context. You made a change and you are happy with many aspects of it. The downside, and there always is one, is that there is still a lot on your plate and less money to go around. DH should step up in the mornings for sure.

[Anonymous]

You said your dual income friends have two flexible jobs, grandparent help or miserable.

Our friends are mostly like yours where the husband earns more. I’m not sure exactly how much more but the Dh usually has the more rigid work schedule and mother is the default parent. This seems to be the case whether the mom is a nurse, physician, lawyer, consultant, etc. In our circles, it is never equal. Or if it is equal, the wife still does more of the kid load.

I have witnessed many unhappy wives about unequal division of labor. Some get more paid help. I know two moms who hired full time housekeepers even though kids are in school all day. They have demanding jobs ( doctor and a lawyer) so they don’t want to come home and cook and clean so they outsource it. They come home to a clean house with laundry done.

[Anonymous]

OP, I'd consider an au pair for mornings and evenings. That's what we do to make our jobs fit our lives.

If not, the other option is to get your DH to move/reduce his workouts. Most people with kids don't have the time to work out daily. That's a HUGE luxury that he's taking at a big cost to you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

There are plenty of dads of young children at his salary level that get their work done in a way that allows them to be a contributing partner at home.

Oh I wasn't saying it can't be done. I'm saying OP's DH is presenting this as a fait accompli; his hours are inflexible, his workouts are a priority, therefore she's gotta handle it all. OK. Well, but it seems he's also expecting her to do everything for these kids. There's a name for that: it's a SAHM. As long as he wants OP to have a job, and he wants nothing to change for him, that means they outsource. And on $270K combined salary in this area, that's either tricky or impossible while also paying for daycare. So. He wants his job to be the only contribution (and frankly to have this 1955 arrangement)? Time to bring in more money dude.

Now of course the easier, more equitable, healthier, and better-choice-as-a-father choice, is him actually participating in the family he created and working with his wife to help life move forward. But that's "impossible" because he's so "thorough", can't "multi-task", etc.

It's BS. And yes I sound annoyed. As another PP pointed out, DH is running quite the con, and OP sounds like she's genuinely struggling. I think that sucks.

I posted before that I now stay home but used to be in a similar situation. I actually also worked in finance and kept cutting down. At the end, I was doing more accounting and budgeting for flexibility, which is far different than more glamorous finance jobs in nyc.

In OP’s situation, I think her DH should try to get a higher paying job. 170 is pretty low. I made more than that fresh out of grad school 20 years ago. If he isn’t helping much around the house, he should at least earn more to get you more paid help.

In my house, I told Dh to go hard in his career and he did. He doesn’t worry about pick up or drop off or getting a kid to dance or soccer. I don’t get mad at him for never going grocery shopping or buying a birthday gift. I stopped working when he earned 800k. He now earns $2-3m.

I mean, this is disgusting and a terrible thing to model to both sons and daughters. But you do you.

Why is this disgusting? I did most of the kid stuff while I was working. I handled planning play dates, birthdays, vacations, bought gifts for friends, teachers, clothes, shoes, diapers, etc. While I haven’t asked everyone, most moms do this stuff whether they work or not.

I was burnt out in my finance job. I didn’t like my mommy tracked job and I now stay home while Dh earns. What is disgusting about this?

It’s disgusting that you’re suggesting that OP throw in the towel professionally bc then her H will make 3m a year. This is unlikely, statistically, for most working people, much less a man with 2 children whose current salary is 170K. So maybe your advice isn’t disgusting, it’s just oddly specific and not relevant (it’s also deeply sexist which is what I think PP meant).

[Anonymous]

You sound like a good wife who loves her husband. Maybe just accept your current life as is. Your Dh sounds kind of selfish but usually there is one in each relationship. DH is the giver and I’m the taker in our marriage. Dh is always giving. He has always loved me more.

.

Lol “just keep being the giver”, says the taker.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

There are plenty of dads of young children at his salary level that get their work done in a way that allows them to be a contributing partner at home.

Oh I wasn't saying it can't be done. I'm saying OP's DH is presenting this as a fait accompli; his hours are inflexible, his workouts are a priority, therefore she's gotta handle it all. OK. Well, but it seems he's also expecting her to do everything for these kids. There's a name for that: it's a SAHM. As long as he wants OP to have a job, and he wants nothing to change for him, that means they outsource. And on $270K combined salary in this area, that's either tricky or impossible while also paying for daycare. So. He wants his job to be the only contribution (and frankly to have this 1955 arrangement)? Time to bring in more money dude.

Now of course the easier, more equitable, healthier, and better-choice-as-a-father choice, is him actually participating in the family he created and working with his wife to help life move forward. But that's "impossible" because he's so "thorough", can't "multi-task", etc.

It's BS. And yes I sound annoyed. As another PP pointed out, DH is running quite the con, and OP sounds like she's genuinely struggling. I think that sucks.

I posted before that I now stay home but used to be in a similar situation. I actually also worked in finance and kept cutting down. At the end, I was doing more accounting and budgeting for flexibility, which is far different than more glamorous finance jobs in nyc.

In OP’s situation, I think her DH should try to get a higher paying job. 170 is pretty low. I made more than that fresh out of grad school 20 years ago. If he isn’t helping much around the house, he should at least earn more to get you more paid help.

In my house, I told Dh to go hard in his career and he did. He doesn’t worry about pick up or drop off or getting a kid to dance or soccer. I don’t get mad at him for never going grocery shopping or buying a birthday gift. I stopped working when he earned 800k. He now earns $2-3m.

I mean, this is disgusting and a terrible thing to model to both sons and daughters. But you do you.

Why is this disgusting? I did most of the kid stuff while I was working. I handled planning play dates, birthdays, vacations, bought gifts for friends, teachers, clothes, shoes, diapers, etc. While I haven’t asked everyone, most moms do this stuff whether they work or not.

I was burnt out in my finance job. I didn’t like my mommy tracked job and I now stay home while Dh earns. What is disgusting about this?

It’s disgusting that you’re suggesting that OP throw in the towel professionally bc then her H will make 3m a year. This is unlikely, statistically, for most working people, much less a man with 2 children whose current salary is 170K. So maybe your advice isn’t disgusting, it’s just oddly specific and not relevant (it’s also deeply sexist which is what I think PP meant).

I suggested that the husband earn more since he works in finance, an industry that is $$$. I didn’t suggest that OP stop working.

I also saw that OP’s husband scaled back after having a demanding finance job and I sympathized because I also used to have a grueling finance job.

Dh and I both used to work 60-80 hours and it wasn’t sustainable. For a while, Dh only was still working 60+ hours. The more senior Dh gets, he has much more control over his schedule. He doesn’t accept meetings and declines a lot. He did not have this option when he was more junior.

[Anonymous]

It’s totally great that sex and couple times are priorities for you, but just FYI, OP-“only” having 90 minutes a day of time with your DH per day is actually A LOT lol. My situation is not as complex as yours but many days DH and I don’t really get any couple time. 90 minutes would actually be very high for us on an average day.

Everyone should set their life up the way they want, but just so you’re aware, I don’t know of any couples with two jobs and young kids who: (1) spend significant time together every single day (as in, more than 30 minutes so); (2) have an active sex life; (3) work out every single day. In fact, I’d say I don’t actually know ANYONE who has the above.

It’s totally ok to prioritize those things, but your expectations of life at this season of life strike me as a bit unrealistic. You really can’t have it all. Most working parents with jobs and young kids are sacrificing sleep, exercise, sex, time together, house cleanliness, career progression, time with friends, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s totally great that sex and couple times are priorities for you, but just FYI, OP-“only” having 90 minutes a day of time with your DH per day is actually A LOT lol. My situation is not as complex as yours but many days DH and I don’t really get any couple time. 90 minutes would actually be very high for us on an average day.

Everyone should set their life up the way they want, but just so you’re aware, I don’t know of any couples with two jobs and young kids who: (1) spend significant time together every single day (as in, more than 30 minutes so); (2) have an active sex life; (3) work out every single day. In fact, I’d say I don’t actually know ANYONE who has the above.

It’s totally ok to prioritize those things, but your expectations of life at this season of life strike me as a bit unrealistic. You really can’t have it all. Most working parents with jobs and young kids are sacrificing sleep, exercise, sex, time together, house cleanliness, career progression, time with friends, etc.

What is this couple time? Is this time after kids go to bed?

Why not work out together? Or why can’t Dh work out when op puts kids to bed?

I think what is more rare is for one person to work out everyday.

[Anonymous]

We got an au pair when our kids were elementary age and it helped a ton just to have that extra help. It will get easier when the kids get older. Try and hang in there or see if you can work just a little less, that may help.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It gets better as they get older. Can you afford extra help in the mornings or afternoons? I served very simple meals when the kids were little and joined a carpool when they hit elementary.

NP. Disagree. It is much harder when they start doing extracurricular activities.

Then you need have to limit them to accommodate your household if you can't afford help.

No. If you want a kid to excel at anything, there is a significant time commitment. Even 1 activity can eat up several evenings/weekenfs. If there is more than one kid, even a once a week activity is now at least on two days a week

And that's why there are so many divorces.

This has nothing to do with divorce.
My parents are married.
I am divorced. We do this married or divorced. It literally does not matter. Busy 5-7 days week except summer. It is the way it is.

I'd cut back on the extracurriculars before threatening my spouse with divorce.

What are you talking about? This is nothing to do with divorce. Parenting is harder after kindergarten. Period. The same routine is going to happen no matter the marital status. This had nothing to do with divorcing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We got an au pair when our kids were elementary age and it helped a ton just to have that extra help. It will get easier when the kids get older. Try and hang in there or see if you can work just a little less, that may help.

I don’t necessarily think it gets easier. When kids are young, all you have to do is drive them to daycare and back. As they get older, they may have more activities and sports. You also have to deal with academics and friendships. I guess it is harder in a different way. You won’t need to bathe them. Kids can get ready for bed alone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It gets better as they get older. Can you afford extra help in the mornings or afternoons? I served very simple meals when the kids were little and joined a carpool when they hit elementary.

NP. Disagree. It is much harder when they start doing extracurricular activities.

Then you need have to limit them to accommodate your household if you can't afford help.

No. If you want a kid to excel at anything, there is a significant time commitment. Even 1 activity can eat up several evenings/weekenfs. If there is more than one kid, even a once a week activity is now at least on two days a week

And that's why there are so many divorces.

This has nothing to do with divorce.
My parents are married.
I am divorced. We do this married or divorced. It literally does not matter. Busy 5-7 days week except summer. It is the way it is.

I'd cut back on the extracurriculars before threatening my spouse with divorce.

What are you talking about? This is nothing to do with divorce. Parenting is harder after kindergarten. Period. The same routine is going to happen no matter the marital status. This had nothing to do with divorcing.

The comment was made in response to an earlier one that Op should threaten divorce if her DH doesn’t do more.