What to pay a live-in

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Most live-in jobs are not attractive jobs. You need to either pay well, or have exceptional private accommodations to offer the nanny. Or both.

And yet nannies keep applying to live-in vacancies without either - go figure.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most live-in jobs are not attractive jobs. You need to either pay well, or have exceptional private accommodations to offer the nanny. Or both.

And yet nannies keep applying to live-in vacancies without either - go figure.

Poor immigrants without housing do not qualify as instant nannies, imo. Sorry.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Thank God for au pairs.

Indeed, legalized slave labor. Often, certainly not always.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thank God for au pairs.

Indeed, legalized slave labor. Often, certainly not always.

Your trolling is prolific.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:i used to sue people like you PP who don't pay minimum wage to live ins and I won a lot of cases....

Aw...you mean you went to law school when it became clear you are no good with the calculator?

And I guess they didn't tell you that room and board is part of the compensation for the live-in nanny? Please send us a link to your won case, I'd love to read that!

http://www.dcurbanmom.com/nanny-forum/posts/list/15/310454.page#3137493

Page 2, 21.11. The wording for the law is clear. Nannies must be paid minimum wage. Nannies may only have room and board deducted if it is to the nanny's benefit to live-in (ie. the nanny asked or the employer offered but did not require). If the employer's work involves travel, on call or other reasons to need a live-in nanny, room and board may NOT be deducted.

That thing in parenthesis - you made that up. That's not actually FROM the language of the law. Not having a housing or grocery bill is a benefit to the nanny - how could it be otherwise?

How could it be otherwise?
1. No privacy. The employer can walk into the nanny's area of the house at any time, for any reason. Most won't unless there is a reason, and most either allow the nanny to accompany them or let the nanny know ahead of time, but they don't have to.
2. Sound carries. No matter how much a live-in nanny may want to sleep in on her day, if rarely (never, for me) happens. Kids get up and start making noise. Most families either house the nanny in a bedroom on the same floor as the kids, or the nanny is the basement... right next to the playroom.
3. Most families don't want to provide food that the nanny can and will eat, they instead expect the nanny to eat what is already in the house. In some cases that might mean that it's all boxed or cans, in other cases it might mean that the nanny only has vegetarian or vegan choices. Live-in nannies almost always end up buying food for themselves, and frequently they need to purchase a refrigerator for their room.
4. Kitchen use is always dicey. Most families want their children to eat what is served, not ask for something else. When the family ate 30 minutes prior and the nanny comes out to make herself food on her day off, the kids get upset.
5. Boundaries are very hard to maintain. What may start as getting a drink for a 2 year old or catching a toddler who is about to go up the stairs without help can easily turn into more. Very young children don't understand why the nanny doesn't want to play with them. Older children are likely to try to get a different answer from the nanny when the parent tells them something they don't want to hear.
6. Nannies frequently streamline mornings and afternoons. It can be very upsetting to a parent to realize that the nanny can accomplish things with less hassle in a shorter time period. It's a delicate balancing act to make sure that the parents know how the nanny does morning prep and afternoon pick up without making the parents feel inadequate or jealous.
7. Live-in nannies see more of a child's firsts than even a live-out nanny. Then, the live-in nanny has to decide whether to show the parent a video (if the nanny had time to grab something to record the first), pretend that it didn't happen so that the parent will have the first, or try to get the child to do it asap for the parent. Parents want to be there for their children's firsts, but the reality is that the nanny will be there because the parents are working.
8. When out with the parent, the nanny is almost always introduced dismissively. "Oh? Oh, that's just my nanny."
9. When out with the parent and child, the nanny is always expected to immediately correct anyone who may be assuming that the nanny is the parent. "No, that's the mother, I'm just the nanny."
10. The nanny is very infrequently allowed to take any credit for anything that she does with or for her charges. It's just expectations, even when she goes above and beyond.
11. Live-in nannies don't get overtime (unless they are in CA, NY or MD), and they are living in the same house. So, it's very easy for parents to text the nanny and tell her that they need her to watch the kids while they go on a date, do errands, etc.

As you obviously didn't read 21.18 clearly, I'm copying it over, and will decipher:

Q. How will this effect live-in care givers who receive room and board as part of their compensation?
A. The FLSA allows an employer to count as part of wages the reasonable cost or fair value of furnishing an employee with board, lodging, or other facilities under certain circumstances. Specifically, employers may only count the reasonable cost or fair value of lodging as part of their minimum wage obligation to live-in domestic service employees if:

1) Employees voluntarily accept the lodging; Employee chooses to live-in, it's not a requirement for the position.
2) Lodging is furnished in compliance with any applicable federal, state, or local law;
3) Lodging is primarily for the benefit of the employee; Employee does not have other means of housing herself.
4) Employers maintain accurate records of costs incurred in furnishing the lodging; and
5) The credit claimed does not exceed the reasonable cost or fair value of the lodging furnished. Nanny can't be charged more than the employer could rent for the space.
http://www.dol.gov/whd/homecare/qa.htm#livein3

Is that clearer? It must be for the employee's benefit, and most (if not all) live-in nannies could find other housing rather than have wages docked to below minimum wage.

So potential employers advertising for a live-in nanny must pay regular OT wages?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:i used to sue people like you PP who don't pay minimum wage to live ins and I won a lot of cases....

Aw...you mean you went to law school when it became clear you are no good with the calculator?

And I guess they didn't tell you that room and board is part of the compensation for the live-in nanny? Please send us a link to your won case, I'd love to read that!

http://www.dcurbanmom.com/nanny-forum/posts/list/15/310454.page#3137493

Page 2, 21.11. The wording for the law is clear. Nannies must be paid minimum wage. Nannies may only have room and board deducted if it is to the nanny's benefit to live-in (ie. the nanny asked or the employer offered but did not require). If the employer's work involves travel, on call or other reasons to need a live-in nanny, room and board may NOT be deducted.

That thing in parenthesis - you made that up. That's not actually FROM the language of the law. Not having a housing or grocery bill is a benefit to the nanny - how could it be otherwise?

How could it be otherwise?
1. No privacy. The employer can walk into the nanny's area of the house at any time, for any reason. Most won't unless there is a reason, and most either allow the nanny to accompany them or let the nanny know ahead of time, but they don't have to.
2. Sound carries. No matter how much a live-in nanny may want to sleep in on her day, if rarely (never, for me) happens. Kids get up and start making noise. Most families either house the nanny in a bedroom on the same floor as the kids, or the nanny is the basement... right next to the playroom.
3. Most families don't want to provide food that the nanny can and will eat, they instead expect the nanny to eat what is already in the house. In some cases that might mean that it's all boxed or cans, in other cases it might mean that the nanny only has vegetarian or vegan choices. Live-in nannies almost always end up buying food for themselves, and frequently they need to purchase a refrigerator for their room.
4. Kitchen use is always dicey. Most families want their children to eat what is served, not ask for something else. When the family ate 30 minutes prior and the nanny comes out to make herself food on her day off, the kids get upset.
5. Boundaries are very hard to maintain. What may start as getting a drink for a 2 year old or catching a toddler who is about to go up the stairs without help can easily turn into more. Very young children don't understand why the nanny doesn't want to play with them. Older children are likely to try to get a different answer from the nanny when the parent tells them something they don't want to hear.
6. Nannies frequently streamline mornings and afternoons. It can be very upsetting to a parent to realize that the nanny can accomplish things with less hassle in a shorter time period. It's a delicate balancing act to make sure that the parents know how the nanny does morning prep and afternoon pick up without making the parents feel inadequate or jealous.
7. Live-in nannies see more of a child's firsts than even a live-out nanny. Then, the live-in nanny has to decide whether to show the parent a video (if the nanny had time to grab something to record the first), pretend that it didn't happen so that the parent will have the first, or try to get the child to do it asap for the parent. Parents want to be there for their children's firsts, but the reality is that the nanny will be there because the parents are working.
8. When out with the parent, the nanny is almost always introduced dismissively. "Oh? Oh, that's just my nanny."
9. When out with the parent and child, the nanny is always expected to immediately correct anyone who may be assuming that the nanny is the parent. "No, that's the mother, I'm just the nanny."
10. The nanny is very infrequently allowed to take any credit for anything that she does with or for her charges. It's just expectations, even when she goes above and beyond.
11. Live-in nannies don't get overtime (unless they are in CA, NY or MD), and they are living in the same house. So, it's very easy for parents to text the nanny and tell her that they need her to watch the kids while they go on a date, do errands, etc.

As you obviously didn't read 21.18 clearly, I'm copying it over, and will decipher:

Q. How will this effect live-in care givers who receive room and board as part of their compensation?
A. The FLSA allows an employer to count as part of wages the reasonable cost or fair value of furnishing an employee with board, lodging, or other facilities under certain circumstances. Specifically, employers may only count the reasonable cost or fair value of lodging as part of their minimum wage obligation to live-in domestic service employees if:

1) Employees voluntarily accept the lodging; Employee chooses to live-in, it's not a requirement for the position.
2) Lodging is furnished in compliance with any applicable federal, state, or local law;
3) Lodging is primarily for the benefit of the employee; Employee does not have other means of housing herself.
4) Employers maintain accurate records of costs incurred in furnishing the lodging; and
5) The credit claimed does not exceed the reasonable cost or fair value of the lodging furnished. Nanny can't be charged more than the employer could rent for the space.
http://www.dol.gov/whd/homecare/qa.htm#livein3

Is that clearer? It must be for the employee's benefit, and most (if not all) live-in nannies could find other housing rather than have wages docked to below minimum wage.

So potential employers advertising for a live-in nanny must pay regular OT wages?

The nanny must be paid for all hours worked. Unless the home is in NY, CA or MD (perhaps other locations, you would have to check state and local regulations), OT is not required, and even in those locations, OT might not be required until after 44 hours.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:i used to sue people like you PP who don't pay minimum wage to live ins and I won a lot of cases....

Aw...you mean you went to law school when it became clear you are no good with the calculator?

And I guess they didn't tell you that room and board is part of the compensation for the live-in nanny? Please send us a link to your won case, I'd love to read that!

http://www.dcurbanmom.com/nanny-forum/posts/list/15/310454.page#3137493

Page 2, 21.11. The wording for the law is clear. Nannies must be paid minimum wage. Nannies may only have room and board deducted if it is to the nanny's benefit to live-in (ie. the nanny asked or the employer offered but did not require). If the employer's work involves travel, on call or other reasons to need a live-in nanny, room and board may NOT be deducted.

That thing in parenthesis - you made that up. That's not actually FROM the language of the law. Not having a housing or grocery bill is a benefit to the nanny - how could it be otherwise?

How could it be otherwise?
1. No privacy. The employer can walk into the nanny's area of the house at any time, for any reason. Most won't unless there is a reason, and most either allow the nanny to accompany them or let the nanny know ahead of time, but they don't have to.
2. Sound carries. No matter how much a live-in nanny may want to sleep in on her day, if rarely (never, for me) happens. Kids get up and start making noise. Most families either house the nanny in a bedroom on the same floor as the kids, or the nanny is the basement... right next to the playroom.
3. Most families don't want to provide food that the nanny can and will eat, they instead expect the nanny to eat what is already in the house. In some cases that might mean that it's all boxed or cans, in other cases it might mean that the nanny only has vegetarian or vegan choices. Live-in nannies almost always end up buying food for themselves, and frequently they need to purchase a refrigerator for their room.
4. Kitchen use is always dicey. Most families want their children to eat what is served, not ask for something else. When the family ate 30 minutes prior and the nanny comes out to make herself food on her day off, the kids get upset.
5. Boundaries are very hard to maintain. What may start as getting a drink for a 2 year old or catching a toddler who is about to go up the stairs without help can easily turn into more. Very young children don't understand why the nanny doesn't want to play with them. Older children are likely to try to get a different answer from the nanny when the parent tells them something they don't want to hear.
6. Nannies frequently streamline mornings and afternoons. It can be very upsetting to a parent to realize that the nanny can accomplish things with less hassle in a shorter time period. It's a delicate balancing act to make sure that the parents know how the nanny does morning prep and afternoon pick up without making the parents feel inadequate or jealous.
7. Live-in nannies see more of a child's firsts than even a live-out nanny. Then, the live-in nanny has to decide whether to show the parent a video (if the nanny had time to grab something to record the first), pretend that it didn't happen so that the parent will have the first, or try to get the child to do it asap for the parent. Parents want to be there for their children's firsts, but the reality is that the nanny will be there because the parents are working.
8. When out with the parent, the nanny is almost always introduced dismissively. "Oh? Oh, that's just my nanny."
9. When out with the parent and child, the nanny is always expected to immediately correct anyone who may be assuming that the nanny is the parent. "No, that's the mother, I'm just the nanny."
10. The nanny is very infrequently allowed to take any credit for anything that she does with or for her charges. It's just expectations, even when she goes above and beyond.
11. Live-in nannies don't get overtime (unless they are in CA, NY or MD), and they are living in the same house. So, it's very easy for parents to text the nanny and tell her that they need her to watch the kids while they go on a date, do errands, etc.

As you obviously didn't read 21.18 clearly, I'm copying it over, and will decipher:

Q. How will this effect live-in care givers who receive room and board as part of their compensation?
A. The FLSA allows an employer to count as part of wages the reasonable cost or fair value of furnishing an employee with board, lodging, or other facilities under certain circumstances. Specifically, employers may only count the reasonable cost or fair value of lodging as part of their minimum wage obligation to live-in domestic service employees if:

1) Employees voluntarily accept the lodging; Employee chooses to live-in, it's not a requirement for the position.
2) Lodging is furnished in compliance with any applicable federal, state, or local law;
3) Lodging is primarily for the benefit of the employee; Employee does not have other means of housing herself.
4) Employers maintain accurate records of costs incurred in furnishing the lodging; and
5) The credit claimed does not exceed the reasonable cost or fair value of the lodging furnished. Nanny can't be charged more than the employer could rent for the space.
http://www.dol.gov/whd/homecare/qa.htm#livein3

Is that clearer? It must be for the employee's benefit, and most (if not all) live-in nannies could find other housing rather than have wages docked to below minimum wage.

So potential employers advertising for a live-in nanny must pay regular OT wages?

The nanny must be paid for all hours worked. Unless the home is in NY, CA or MD (perhaps other locations, you would have to check state and local regulations), OT is not required, and even in those locations, OT might not be required until after 44 hours.

No, I don't think so. Do you have a government link to support that?

Looks to me that when employer requires a live-in, normal OT rates kick in.

[Anonymous]

I posted this on another thread:

I work as a live in for $500 a week flat, 52 weeks a year. My kids are school aged, so most of the time I'm only working 15hrs a week, I take on various jobs during the day, including dog walking and some babysitting of young kids, I also do light housekeeping for the family (I do all of the laundry and grocery shopping, walk the dog once a day, and do an overnight once a month). I'm supplied with a car that the family maintains and I have a gas card they pay for. Snow days, teacher work days and SOME summer weeks are longer hours, up to 45, but even in summer the kids are often signed up for half day camps. I do not vacation with my family, but they take approx. 4 weeks off a year and I try to time my vacations with theirs.

On the weeks I'm at 15hrs, my pay is $33/hr and the weeks I'm at 45, it comes to $10/hr. I love my arrangement!

[Anonymous]

No, I don't think so. Do you have a government link to support that?

Looks to me that when employer requires a live-in, normal OT rates kick in.

On my phone and traveling, so I can't do the link right now. But yes, I'll copy it over later this week. For what it's worth, I'm the nanny who has posted the laws before, and although I wish OT was required, it isn't.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
No, I don't think so. Do you have a government link to support that?

Looks to me that when employer requires a live-in, normal OT rates kick in.

On my phone and traveling, so I can't do the link right now. But yes, I'll copy it over later this week. For what it's worth, I'm the nanny who has posted the laws before, and although I wish OT was required, it isn't.
It depends if it's a job REQUIREMENT, or not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
No, I don't think so. Do you have a government link to support that?

Looks to me that when employer requires a live-in, normal OT rates kick in.

On my phone and traveling, so I can't do the link right now. But yes, I'll copy it over later this week. For what it's worth, I'm the nanny who has posted the laws before, and although I wish OT was required, it isn't.

It depends if it's a job REQUIREMENT, or not.

Whether the nanny is required to live-in has no bearing on OT. It only matters in the discussion about charging for room/board.

Link for live-in employees and overtime:

http://www.dol.gov/whd/regs/compliance/whdfsFinalRule.htm

Major headache right now, so I'll dig up the other links later.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
21.42, your post is too long to respond inline so I'm posting the answer separately. Let's address your points.

1. No privacy. You said it yourself that most employers don't go into nanny's quarters.
2. Sound carries. Fact of life. It carries in apartments and multifamily living as well. Would the nanny's apartment be free of sound?
3. Food. No one has any idea what "most families" or "most nannies" do. There's no need to make up a narrative to suit your position.
4. Dealing with upset kids is a reality of life.
5. Boundaries are a reality of life.
6 through 10. Made up, and not specific to live-in nannies. Easily solved by not working for assholes.

But that's not the most important thing. The most important thing is that you inserted your own interpretation of the law into the actual law. You interpreted the point about "voluntarily" as "living in is not a requirement for this position." This is just your read of it; the facts do not bear it out. I interpret it to mean "room and board is part of the compensation for this position, and the employee accepts it voluntarily without a gun to her head."

You also inserted a personal interpretation of (3), stating that "lodging is primarily for the benefit of the employee" means "the employee has no other means of housing herself." I don't even understand what that means - of course there are always other means of housing, no one HAS to live with their employers. Dismissed as made up.

If most nannies would rather find their own housing than get their wages docked below the minimum wage, then the question begs itself - why don't they? If what you say is true, the market for $500/week live-in nannies wouldn't exist. And it does.

What an ass. Hardly worth more of a response. Most domestic workers are illegals, Einstein.

All our nannies have been legal, but what do I know? Perhaps a random bozo from the interwebz knows more about the women she's never met than I do.

Please stop saying interwebz

[Anonymous]

Most domestics can't show you a W-2.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Most domestics can't show you a W-2.

Your opinion, you're entitled. It doesn't clear the employer of their responsibility.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thank God for au pairs.

Indeed, legalized slave labor. Often, certainly not always.

Your trolling is prolific.

Legalized slave labor is a national embarrassment. I thought Obama would have spoken out against it. Perhaps Hillary, "the women's rights champion" will someday actually address this issue. But who knows, maybe she herself was profiting from the cheap foreign labor market while she chased a 'real' job.