focus more on money than my child...advice, please

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP do you guarantee her hours? If so, then her canceling on your to work other hours is completely gaming the system, and she sounds pretty dumb if she flat out told you this. However if you haven't guaranteed her hours, I don't think its wrong for her to occasionally take a (significantly) higher paying gig for the day. I had a crappy boss once, that refused to guarantee my hours, and I made it work for a while but if I was offered a higher paying gig for the day, I would tell her I couldn't make it that day. When you hire a nanny you pay for her services and her availability. If you don't guarantee pay, you open yourself up to competition for her time if she's in demand.

Even if the hours weren't guaranteed the nanny made a commitment to be there on that particular day. It is wrong for her to take a higher paying job when she already made a commitment to the OP for those hours. OP is already paying the nanny more than the nanny's previous employer. This nanny does sound money hungry. That's a concern b/c if she did this once it's conceivable she'll do it again. I wouldn't want to employ someone like that.

If you don't guarantee hours, then your arrangement is just that, not guaranteed. She's not guaranteed pay, and you're not guaranteed access to her availability. I'd also question how competitive the pay is that OP is offering, considering her nanny was able to beat that rate by $5/hour. That's pretty significant. I don't think you'll have to worry about firing her OP, she won't be sticking around long.

There are plenty of jobs that don't guarantee hours, but an employee is still expected to show up when scheduled. These are positions that pay hourly. If someone takes a job in a restaurant or chain store (grocery, clothing, etc...) that person is expected to show up to work at the agreed upon time. It's quite possible the person will be sent home on a slow night (hence the hours not being guaranteed), but it doesn't mean that it's ok for the employee to decide not to show up to work one day b/c a one-day, higher-paying temp job came along. That could very well get the person fired.

I agree that the difference in pay was significant, but it still doesn't give the nanny a free pass to take a different job one day just b/c it paid more. She was hired to work certain days at certain times. She presumably knew that when she accepted the job. Has OP even commented on the guaranteed hours argument? For all we know she does guarantee the hours she hired the nanny for. Regardless the nanny made a commitment to OP for those hours. Taking a one-day temp job went against her commitment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP do you guarantee her hours? If so, then her canceling on your to work other hours is completely gaming the system, and she sounds pretty dumb if she flat out told you this. However if you haven't guaranteed her hours, I don't think its wrong for her to occasionally take a (significantly) higher paying gig for the day. I had a crappy boss once, that refused to guarantee my hours, and I made it work for a while but if I was offered a higher paying gig for the day, I would tell her I couldn't make it that day. When you hire a nanny you pay for her services and her availability. If you don't guarantee pay, you open yourself up to competition for her time if she's in demand.

Even if the hours weren't guaranteed the nanny made a commitment to be there on that particular day. It is wrong for her to take a higher paying job when she already made a commitment to the OP for those hours. OP is already paying the nanny more than the nanny's previous employer. This nanny does sound money hungry. That's a concern b/c if she did this once it's conceivable she'll do it again. I wouldn't want to employ someone like that.

How many have you employed, in how many years?

2 nannies in 6 years. The first one for 2 years until a move to the suburbs made the commute unrealistic for a public transportation-taking nanny. The second one 4 years and counting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP do you guarantee her hours? If so, then her canceling on your to work other hours is completely gaming the system, and she sounds pretty dumb if she flat out told you this. However if you haven't guaranteed her hours, I don't think its wrong for her to occasionally take a (significantly) higher paying gig for the day. I had a crappy boss once, that refused to guarantee my hours, and I made it work for a while but if I was offered a higher paying gig for the day, I would tell her I couldn't make it that day. When you hire a nanny you pay for her services and her availability. If you don't guarantee pay, you open yourself up to competition for her time if she's in demand.

Even if the hours weren't guaranteed the nanny made a commitment to be there on that particular day. It is wrong for her to take a higher paying job when she already made a commitment to the OP for those hours. OP is already paying the nanny more than the nanny's previous employer. This nanny does sound money hungry. That's a concern b/c if she did this once it's conceivable she'll do it again. I wouldn't want to employ someone like that.

If you don't guarantee hours, then your arrangement is just that, not guaranteed. She's not guaranteed pay, and you're not guaranteed access to her availability. I'd also question how competitive the pay is that OP is offering, considering her nanny was able to beat that rate by $5/hour. That's pretty significant. I don't think you'll have to worry about firing her OP, she won't be sticking around long.

There are plenty of jobs that don't guarantee hours, but an employee is still expected to show up when scheduled. These are positions that pay hourly. If someone takes a job in a restaurant or chain store (grocery, clothing, etc...) that person is expected to show up to work at the agreed upon time. It's quite possible the person will be sent home on a slow night (hence the hours not being guaranteed), but it doesn't mean that it's ok for the employee to decide not to show up to work one day b/c a one-day, higher-paying temp job came along. That could very well get the person fired.

I agree that the difference in pay was significant, but it still doesn't give the nanny a free pass to take a different job one day just b/c it paid more. She was hired to work certain days at certain times. She presumably knew that when she accepted the job. Has OP even commented on the guaranteed hours argument? For all we know she does guarantee the hours she hired the nanny for. Regardless the nanny made a commitment to OP for those hours. Taking a one-day temp job went against her commitment.

Those jobs you reference tend to have variable schedules and presumably more than one employee. In the case of employing a full time nanny, you are generally reserving a set schedule each week and there is no one to trade hours with. I worked in traditional hourly jobs (fast food) and I could set and change my availability as needed. I could also give away an unwanted shift as someone was usually on call. A nanny job is not like that. Also typical hourly employees are not all that committed to a particular position and the turnover rate is not desirable for a nanny employer, so its best not to aim for an identical environment or you'll get identical results.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So, to clear things up - this is what I originally stated: "I asked her how the day went as I was walking her to the door, and she replied along the lines of "Fine. So, are you going to send a check each time or...?"

...The walk from my office to the front door was taking minute or two as she was gathering her things, so more than a one-word response would have very easily been possible. Even 5 words. "Fine" is not a satisfactory. response. She wanted to stay to talk about money, which had already established. No one was asked to work overtime. I am not abusive. And, we'd already agreed that if I am late for some reason, she'd be paid in 15-minute increments to compensate -- so, if even if I am 5 minutes late, she will be paid for .

She is not "poor". She is partially supported by her parents while she establishes herself. I am paying her $2 more an hour than my friend had been, because I felt she was underpaid for the work required.

Right. But did you ask her ahead of time? She might have had plans immediately after work that day.

I have been a nanny 15+ years. Some MBs make this mistake (not all). They think if they are paying nanny, nanny can stay late anytime. They forget to think about whether she can stay on short notice or no notice. Maybe she has a class, another job, dinner plans, etc. I tried and tried to get through to one MB - telling her straight out that she couldn't have me stay late just anytime (and I mean like 30-45 min. late twice/week) - and that I had other plans. She wouldn't get it. I finally had to have a regularly scheduled thing three days/wk so she would stop. I told her what it was and when it started. I didn't really have that, but it was the only way to get her to stop. She still came home right when I should be leaving, and proceeded to keep talking to me about various things, making me 5-15 min. late anyway. It is like she just couldn't let me go (some weird compulsion?). I would be getting my purse, etc., walking towards the door, opening the door, standing at the open door, taking a couple steps away from the door, saying things like I was leaving, and she just kept talking. If she wanted to talk to me so bad, she was there for 30 minutes each morning with me, so there was plenty of time then. Then she didn't say much. It was like she couldn't stand me leaving in the evenings, or got off on making me late...I don't know.

[Anonymous]

Some people just have no respect for others. Sad.

[Anonymous]

Neither of the last 2 comments relates at all to the situation OP outlined where she was not looking for nanny to stay late - just was rightfully surprised at nanny being a to the minute clock watcher. Most Employees who bolt the very minute on the dot that is is quitting time are not so generously viewed. And I totally agree that MBs should ask about OT and not simply demand it. In the other hand some MBs know they need it so the onus is on them to let nanny know that she will often be asked to stay late. I did not set things up with my nanny that way because I think a 10 hr day is long enough but I can recognize this is what some MBs need out of a nanny and is part of why they went that route over daycare.

[Anonymous]

No OT. She is not a full time nanny and is not getting time and a half for the extra five minutes. A flexible nanny who is not going to penny pinch every single minute is worth her weight and gold and will have a better job overall. I'm not talking 30 min twice a week. But to not make a big deal about 5-10 minutes a couple times a week just makes the nanny awesome in the eyes of the MB. Sorry if that's "abusive" because they are not getting OT and were not told three weeks in advance, but it would be the same way with any employer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:No OT. She is not a full time nanny and is not getting time and a half for the extra five minutes. A flexible nanny who is not going to penny pinch every single minute is worth her weight and gold and will have a better job overall. I'm not talking 30 min twice a week. But to not make a big deal about 5-10 minutes a couple times a week just makes the nanny awesome in the eyes of the MB. Sorry if that's "abusive" because they are not getting OT and were not told three weeks in advance, but it would be the same way with any employer.

Most nannies do start out wanting to be flexible and often end up staying 5-10 minutes late on a regular basis (mainly because, just like OP, the parents show up right at the end of the day but then still expect to sit around and chat or be able to get changed/take the dog out etc.). This usually starts out fairly innocuously but ends up becoming a regular occurrence and this unpaid time really adds up. If my family keeps me for an extra 10 minutes three times a week, by the end of the month I have worked two hours for free, I don't think asking to be paid (or not work for) those hours is pinching pennies and being inflexible. Maybe OP's nanny has been burned one too many times and is leery of a situation that seems to be happening all over again. Her promptness could be a sign that she is not willing to work, however insignificant the amount of time may seem, for free.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No OT. She is not a full time nanny and is not getting time and a half for the extra five minutes. A flexible nanny who is not going to penny pinch every single minute is worth her weight and gold and will have a better job overall. I'm not talking 30 min twice a week. But to not make a big deal about 5-10 minutes a couple times a week just makes the nanny awesome in the eyes of the MB. Sorry if that's "abusive" because they are not getting OT and were not told three weeks in advance, but it would be the same way with any employer.

Most nannies do start out wanting to be flexible and often end up staying 5-10 minutes late on a regular basis (mainly because, just like OP, the parents show up right at the end of the day but then still expect to sit around and chat or be able to get changed/take the dog out etc.). This usually starts out fairly innocuously but ends up becoming a regular occurrence and this unpaid time really adds up. If my family keeps me for an extra 10 minutes three times a week, by the end of the month I have worked two hours for free, I don't think asking to be paid (or not work for) those hours is pinching pennies and being inflexible. Maybe OP's nanny has been burned one too many times and is leery of a situation that seems to be happening all over again. Her promptness could be a sign that she is not willing to work, however insignificant the amount of time may seem, for free.

+1 I typically show up about 10 minutes before my start time to discuss the baby's evening/morning and any plans for the day. I also do this to ensure my MB is out the door at my start time. If my MB shows up directly at my end time, changes her clothes then wants a recap, she's now gotten 20-25 free time that day. If this happens daily, which it often becomes, that's around 2 hours each week (that adds up to over a weeks pay over the course of a year!! That alone should entitle a nanny to her bonus ). Its not insignificant. If a nanny was 10 minutes late daily and wanted to leave 5 minutes early, you all would have a cow about how awful and entitled she is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No OT. She is not a full time nanny and is not getting time and a half for the extra five minutes. A flexible nanny who is not going to penny pinch every single minute is worth her weight and gold and will have a better job overall. I'm not talking 30 min twice a week. But to not make a big deal about 5-10 minutes a couple times a week just makes the nanny awesome in the eyes of the MB. Sorry if that's "abusive" because they are not getting OT and were not told three weeks in advance, but it would be the same way with any employer.

Most nannies do start out wanting to be flexible and often end up staying 5-10 minutes late on a regular basis (mainly because, just like OP, the parents show up right at the end of the day but then still expect to sit around and chat or be able to get changed/take the dog out etc.). This usually starts out fairly innocuously but ends up becoming a regular occurrence and this unpaid time really adds up. If my family keeps me for an extra 10 minutes three times a week, by the end of the month I have worked two hours for free, I don't think asking to be paid (or not work for) those hours is pinching pennies and being inflexible. Maybe OP's nanny has been burned one too many times and is leery of a situation that seems to be happening all over again. Her promptness could be a sign that she is not willing to work, however insignificant the amount of time may seem, for free.

+1 I typically show up about 10 minutes before my start time to discuss the baby's evening/morning and any plans for the day. I also do this to ensure my MB is out the door at my start time. If my MB shows up directly at my end time, changes her clothes then wants a recap, she's now gotten 20-25 free time that day. If this happens daily, which it often becomes, that's around 2 hours each week (that adds up to over a weeks pay over the course of a year!! That alone should entitle a nanny to her bonus ). Its not insignificant. If a nanny was 10 minutes late daily and wanted to leave 5 minutes early, you all would have a cow about how awful and entitled she is.

+2!

I am always, without fail, zero exceptions, at LEAST 10 minutes early in the morning - usually 15. We use this time to catch up on the kids, discuss my plans for the day, and share any details we need to. It also helps the kids with the transition because my arrival doesn't mean mom is rushing out the door, they get to have us both there for a bit together. However, I also expect to leave on time every day. When my boss comes home at 5:50, he gets 10 minutes of the day's recap from me. When he comes home at 6, he gets a smile and a wave as I'm leaving - I choose to donate my extra time in the morning because I think it helps the kids and it certainly helps my relationship with my MB, but that's my choice. My boss would never think of expecting me to stay past 6 just because he wanted to talk more or hadn't written my check yet.

And PP is right, if the situation were reversed and the nanny was taking advantage of YOUR time, OP, you'd throw a fit.

[Anonymous]

This has been my experience with younger nannies. I would hire an older nanny. Someone in their thirties.