Nanny seems to have changed

[Anonymous]

I'll apologize in advance for being a newbie to the nanny forum. I'm a regular in the DCUM boards, but to-date have not had one single issue with our nanny that would lead me to this board. We started with her a year ago and we joined an existing share. I have two kids - 8 mos and 3 yo when share started. 20 mos and 4 yo now. She had been with the existing family for three years and their other kids had aged up to school, so we did the nanny share with the youngest of that family - 2 yo when started. That share ended in June. We then added a 1 yo to our share and relocated the share to my house.

Nanny is a 38 year old woman who has 15 years of experience. She, an American, had married a non-American citizen 5 years ago and in May/June they travelled to his home country to do visa and citizenship paperwork. We were very happy for her and gave her 6 weeks off and managed with a temporary nanny while she was gone. We were obviously very excited for her return, but ever since she has been back things have felt "off". I am really frustrated that I can't put my finger on what it is - but kids seem much more ragged at the end of the day, nanny always rushes out the door rather than staying to chat a few minutes, our 4 yo is regularly asking that she not come back (never happened prior to trip), out of house activities seem to have dropped from 4 a week to 1 every two weeks and now they stay at home all day. I came home yesterday a few minutes early to talk to my 4 yo who had been having a hard time complying with nanny's rules - and I sat down with him in front of nanny and reinforced her rules and made it clear mom and nanny were a united front. Son ran off to play and then nanny started crying and saying everything was "so hard" and she felt "like the kids don't know I'm doing everything for them". She then told me my son spent large portions of the last weeks having tantrums and being non compliant in general - behaviors he rarely exhibits with me or his dad. I asked over what things and the list was a list of power struggles (he didn't want his strawberries cut, she insists on cutting strawberries. He wanted to sleep with his slippers on, she insisted he take them off. Etc).

I'm really struggling with what to do. Things seem very much not right, but I'm not there all day and prior to her trip I would have recommended her as the best nanny ever. Our contract is up in December. 4 yo starts part time preschool program in 3 more weeks and so nanny will only have the younger two for most of the day. Do I just endure? Try to talk to her again? Consider a camera? Open to any and all suggestions!

[Anonymous]

Ouch. Do you think she's depressed? How's her health?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Ouch. Do you think she's depressed? How's her health?

I have been wondering whether it's depression, but my interactions with her are so limited I'm not sure how to really judge and I'm certainly not sure how to bring it up.

In general, her health seems good. I see her healthy food options in our fridge during the week and she heads to the gym everyday after she leaves. She does have a doctor appointment coming up that was a follow up for (her words) "female things" so I guess that could be on her mind? im trying to make sense of the issues while still respecting her privacy - just as my employer would have to do with me. Prior to her trip I would have said that she and I were close and even maybe friends. I feel like we are at a Grand Canyon of distance these days so don't know how to ask about her health without seeming inappropriate or prying.

[Anonymous]

Why have the outings become so rare? Is it the third child? I would ask about this. This seems odd.

Your 4-year-old may not have "forgiven" her for the 6-week break yet, and may be testing to see if she will still want to be with him.

Another thing is that after 6 weeks of vacation, she just may be discovering that she's burnt out on the job.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why have the outings become so rare? Is it the third child? I would ask about this. This seems odd.

Your 4-year-old may not have "forgiven" her for the 6-week break yet, and may be testing to see if she will still want to be with him.

Another thing is that after 6 weeks of vacation, she just may be discovering that she's burnt out on the job.

Yes, she says that the third child (the 1 yo) keeps them at home a lot. However, when my younger child was with the prior share, she just got put into a stroller and out they all went went. So I'm confused as to how a very experienced nanny cannot handle getting the three of them out of the house. And when they do go out - it is no longer to grand adventures (i.e a new park, the zoo, etc) but only to our local parks within a 5-8 block radius. Not sure how to approach this though without sounding insulting.

I am worried that your third point is the truth -- that after vacation she realized how burnt out she is with the job. If this is the case, am I (and the kids) just stuck enduring until our contract ends?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why have the outings become so rare? Is it the third child? I would ask about this. This seems odd.

Your 4-year-old may not have "forgiven" her for the 6-week break yet, and may be testing to see if she will still want to be with him.

Another thing is that after 6 weeks of vacation, she just may be discovering that she's burnt out on the job.

Yes, she says that the third child (the 1 yo) keeps them at home a lot. However, when my younger child was with the prior share, she just got put into a stroller and out they all went went. So I'm confused as to how a very experienced nanny cannot handle getting the three of them out of the house. And when they do go out - it is no longer to grand adventures (i.e a new park, the zoo, etc) but only to our local parks within a 5-8 block radius. Not sure how to approach this though without sounding insulting.

I am worried that your third point is the truth -- that after vacation she realized how burnt out she is with the job. If this is the case, am I (and the kids) just stuck enduring until our contract ends?

Actually, no, though you have some uncomfortable conversations in the near future otherwise.

It may be that the problem in the nap schedule for the 1-year-old, especially if that child's parents don't want him/her to sleep on the go. If that's the case, that's an issue you'll need to take up with the share family. The only way to know, though, is to say what you said here: "Larla, you say that the 1 year old keeps you home a lot, but ...".

Part of your 4-year-old's problem is that he's likely bored at home all day with babies, day-in and day-out, so some of his behavior problems are on her. You need to have that conversation, too.

Finally, you need to bring up the elephant in the room -- is she burnt out/overwhelmed? Can she pretend to be the nanny she used to be? Give her some time to fix it. If she can't, this would be firing for cause.

And take this as a bit of a lesson -- a three month notice period is ridiculous. As soon as you tell her, in October, that you aren't renewing her contract in December, she's going to be even less motivated to step it up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why have the outings become so rare? Is it the third child? I would ask about this. This seems odd.

Your 4-year-old may not have "forgiven" her for the 6-week break yet, and may be testing to see if she will still want to be with him.

Another thing is that after 6 weeks of vacation, she just may be discovering that she's burnt out on the job.

Yes, she says that the third child (the 1 yo) keeps them at home a lot. However, when my younger child was with the prior share, she just got put into a stroller and out they all went went. So I'm confused as to how a very experienced nanny cannot handle getting the three of them out of the house. And when they do go out - it is no longer to grand adventures (i.e a new park, the zoo, etc) but only to our local parks within a 5-8 block radius. Not sure how to approach this though without sounding insulting.

I am worried that your third point is the truth -- that after vacation she realized how burnt out she is with the job. If this is the case, am I (and the kids) just stuck enduring until our contract ends?

Actually, no, though you have some uncomfortable conversations in the near future otherwise.

It may be that the problem in the nap schedule for the 1-year-old, especially if that child's parents don't want him/her to sleep on the go. If that's the case, that's an issue you'll need to take up with the share family. The only way to know, though, is to say what you said here: "Larla, you say that the 1 year old keeps you home a lot, but ...".

Part of your 4-year-old's problem is that he's likely bored at home all day with babies, day-in and day-out, so some of his behavior problems are on her. You need to have that conversation, too.

Finally, you need to bring up the elephant in the room -- is she burnt out/overwhelmed? Can she pretend to be the nanny she used to be? Give her some time to fix it. If she can't, this would be firing for cause.

And take this as a bit of a lesson -- a three month notice period is ridiculous. As soon as you tell her, in October, that you aren't renewing her contract in December, she's going to be even less motivated to step it up.

Well this is interesting. Did I mention anything about our notice period? I reread my posts and don't see it (but admit I've been stressed and busy at work so may not be at 100%). So - is that you Nanny?

If so, we can keep pretending this is all anonymous, but PLEASE tell me what is going on. I respect you, I care about you, but I know something is different and it isn't good. I'm happy to do whatever I can to fix it -- but I just need to know what we are dealing with.

[Anonymous]

Could she be pregnant?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Could she be pregnant?

I hadn't thought about it, but she definitely could be. I had forgotten how hard those early months of pregnancy can be, and now I'm worried that if she is pregnant, her doctor appointment tomorrow may have her really worried. So fertility struggles + early pregnancy signs could very well lead to a stressed out, exhausted, and emotional experience.

[Anonymous]

Things could definitely improve once the 4 yr old is in school. I wouldn't throw the towel in yet. She may have picked up a bug overseas, be anemic, pregnant etc. it's hard to say without directly asking her. Maybe she really loved the other country and is bummed to be back. Maybe things are on the skids with her marriage and it's causing stress. It's hard to say but for all your sakes I hope things get better soon. Maybe the 4 yr old is ready for school and being more challenging than usual and it will work itself out soon.

[Anonymous]

I would do three things:
1) Schedule a time to talk to her with no kids around, face-to-face.
2) Talk to the other family and explain that your 4yo and nanny are struggling and you'd like to set up a day for her to take just him on a grand adventure and that you are happy to pay for a backup sitter to care for the little kids
3) Let nanny know that something seems off and that you're worried about her and want to help.

She and 4yo need some bonding time to recover from her absence and the fights they've been having. She also needs to step it up and either get out of the house most days or plan some more exciting projects and activities to do at home for just three more weeks. If you guys can't fix that relationship, then sending 4yo to school in the fall will make it worse--he'll be home only for the most bored, stressed-out, grumpy portion of his day.

[Anonymous]

Instead of thinking it could be this.....or that....or even this again......etc.

Sit down with her and be direct & clear.

You have noticed a huge change in her since her return and the dynamic has changed dramatically between her + your son.

Give her the opportunity to tell you what is bothering her now.

If she refuses to give a viable reason, then just let her go.

If one of my children were telling me that they didn't want their nanny to return then that would be a serious reason to consider issuing her her walking papers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why have the outings become so rare? Is it the third child? I would ask about this. This seems odd.

Your 4-year-old may not have "forgiven" her for the 6-week break yet, and may be testing to see if she will still want to be with him.

Another thing is that after 6 weeks of vacation, she just may be discovering that she's burnt out on the job.

Yes, she says that the third child (the 1 yo) keeps them at home a lot. However, when my younger child was with the prior share, she just got put into a stroller and out they all went went. So I'm confused as to how a very experienced nanny cannot handle getting the three of them out of the house. And when they do go out - it is no longer to grand adventures (i.e a new park, the zoo, etc) but only to our local parks within a 5-8 block radius. Not sure how to approach this though without sounding insulting.

I am worried that your third point is the truth -- that after vacation she realized how burnt out she is with the job. If this is the case, am I (and the kids) just stuck enduring until our contract ends?

Actually, no, though you have some uncomfortable conversations in the near future otherwise.

It may be that the problem in the nap schedule for the 1-year-old, especially if that child's parents don't want him/her to sleep on the go. If that's the case, that's an issue you'll need to take up with the share family. The only way to know, though, is to say what you said here: "Larla, you say that the 1 year old keeps you home a lot, but ...".

Part of your 4-year-old's problem is that he's likely bored at home all day with babies, day-in and day-out, so some of his behavior problems are on her. You need to have that conversation, too.

Finally, you need to bring up the elephant in the room -- is she burnt out/overwhelmed? Can she pretend to be the nanny she used to be? Give her some time to fix it. If she can't, this would be firing for cause.

And take this as a bit of a lesson -- a three month notice period is ridiculous. As soon as you tell her, in October, that you aren't renewing her contract in December, she's going to be even less motivated to step it up.

No! I'm a MB who has been through several nannies of our own over the last 6 years (we moved, they moved ...). I could have sworn I read the three-month notice period -- did you post it in another thread?

I hadn't thought about the pregnancy possibility, either. That's another reason to have a conversation before you decide to fire her or tough it out. All of these possibilities have different solutions.

[Anonymous]

She could be pregnant, she could be burned out, or it might be that the new share is not working well for your Nanny.

Did the share start right before or right after Nanny traveled?

How carefully did YOU interview the new new share family? How much time did Nanny have to interview them? Did Nanny get to share her thoughts on the new family, or was the decision to start the new share driven by your family's needs? If Nanny had told you the share was a bad fit, would you have searched for a different family?

What has the new family asked of the Nanny? Are their requests reasonably easy to achieve when merged with your own requests? Having unreasonable demands placed on you can sour you on a job no matter whether you flip burgers, manage a team in a fortune 500 company, or help 2 different families raise their children.

If I were you, I would evaluate the fit of the new family by talking to them about their expectations and yours, asking how they think things are going, etc. Then talk to your Nanny about how her experience is matching up with what you feel and what new family said. At that point it is time to discuss whether any issues can be resolved, or whether everyone will be happier if a new share family is found or a new Nanny is found.

Good luck!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why have the outings become so rare? Is it the third child? I would ask about this. This seems odd.

Your 4-year-old may not have "forgiven" her for the 6-week break yet, and may be testing to see if she will still want to be with him.

Another thing is that after 6 weeks of vacation, she just may be discovering that she's burnt out on the job.

Yes, she says that the third child (the 1 yo) keeps them at home a lot. However, when my younger child was with the prior share, she just got put into a stroller and out they all went went. So I'm confused as to how a very experienced nanny cannot handle getting the three of them out of the house. And when they do go out - it is no longer to grand adventures (i.e a new park, the zoo, etc) but only to our local parks within a 5-8 block radius. Not sure how to approach this though without sounding insulting.

I am worried that your third point is the truth -- that after vacation she realized how burnt out she is with the job. If this is the case, am I (and the kids) just stuck enduring until our contract ends?

Actually, no, though you have some uncomfortable conversations in the near future otherwise.

It may be that the problem in the nap schedule for the 1-year-old, especially if that child's parents don't want him/her to sleep on the go. If that's the case, that's an issue you'll need to take up with the share family. The only way to know, though, is to say what you said here: "Larla, you say that the 1 year old keeps you home a lot, but ...".

Part of your 4-year-old's problem is that he's likely bored at home all day with babies, day-in and day-out, so some of his behavior problems are on her. You need to have that conversation, too.

Finally, you need to bring up the elephant in the room -- is she burnt out/overwhelmed? Can she pretend to be the nanny she used to be? Give her some time to fix it. If she can't, this would be firing for cause.

And take this as a bit of a lesson -- a three month notice period is ridiculous. As soon as you tell her, in October, that you aren't renewing her contract in December, she's going to be even less motivated to step it up.

No! I'm a MB who has been through several nannies of our own over the last 6 years (we moved, they moved ...). I could have sworn I read the three-month notice period -- did you post it in another thread?

I hadn't thought about the pregnancy possibility, either. That's another reason to have a conversation before you decide to fire her or tough it out. All of these possibilities have different solutions.

Ha! This is my only nanny thread, so I have to ask: are you the DCUM psychic??! ?