Ready to terminate nanny; is this sufficiently "for cause"?

[Anonymous]

I'm ready to terminate our nanny for several reasons. Our contract has specific language regarding termination for cause, which includes vague language about non-performance of duties. I've recently posted two separate posts about her - one related to asking nanny to report on time used (she really hasn't been using kid-free time as agreed upon), and another regarding whether being on time matters in context of arriving before school pick up time. It's become increasingly clear that she just has a bad attitude. She's really Jekyll and Hyde in a lot of ways - warm, friendly, offer to help, and then surly, snide, eye-rolling, disrespectful and generally just rude to my kids. I couldn't make the statement that she ALWAYS has a bad attitude or NEVER is helpful or performs well - she's just incredibly inconsistent and spends far too much time on the underperforming/surly side of the spectrum. The last straw for me was when my spouse and I both had to leave town to go to a dying family member. While we were gone, on the day the family member died, she texted me that our kids were crying for no reason at all, and just super missed us and have just been really out of control, and can she tell grandparents it's okay for kids to watch a movie that night? I was so mad that I couldn't even respond; seriously, why would she ask me that when she knew that at best I was at the hospital and at worst the death has occurred? To ask if she could recommend a movie night? To make clear my kids were being a problem for her? The report from the grandparents was that the kids were fine when grandparents arrived, but that the nanny was acting really irritated and complained that I didn't respond to her text. Nanny now claims she didn't mean to give my parents the impression that the kids were bad; grandparents report that she stood right in front of my preschool daughter telling grandparents how naughty my daughter was - looking right at daughter and saying "you were really naughty, weren't you?" Nanny also complained to grandparents about my son being in a foul mood after school; well, he had a 102 degree fever when my parents checked him. (She had great references by the way. No idea how.)

So - nothing from the above is the single, concrete, obvious "for cause" reason, but is all of this taken together sufficient to call it a "for cause" termination?

[Anonymous]

Do you plan to give her severance?

Just let her go and give her the amount of severance equal to the amount of notice you are contractually bound to and then you can do it with a clear conscience.

[Anonymous]

I think you should be the bigger person and give a severence of two weeks pay. I would say a month if you were parting on good terms. Though your previous posts don't make much sense. She comes just 15 minutes prior to picking up your kids, yet you complain that she isn't vacuum and dusting during her kid free time. Your posts don't add up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think you should be the bigger person and give a severence of two weeks pay. I would say a month if you were parting on good terms. Though your previous posts don't make much sense. She comes just 15 minutes prior to picking up your kids, yet you complain that she isn't vacuum and dusting during her kid free time. Your posts don't add up.

Some days she starts at 8:00. Some days 11:30. The days she starts at 8:00 she has hours without kids. The days she is scheduled to start at 11:30 she consistently late.

She has nickel and dimed us like crazy and expects OT payment regardless of whether she's worked 40 hours/wk. If she asks to go home two hours early one day but stays 15 min late the next, she expects 15 min OT payment AND payment for the time she requested off, because we could have said no, which means she was available to work but we didn't need her. So the idea of giving her severance for being a relatively crappy nanny makes me insane. I would plan to pay her the vacation time she would have accrued if with us for the year, but not a lot extra. She's made clear to me on more than one occasion that it's no big deal if she doesn't work for us, she can just go sub the next day.

[Anonymous]

I feel sorry for your next nanny. Please offer severance and let this woman find a decent family to work for so she can get away from you

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I feel sorry for your next nanny. Please offer severance and let this woman find a decent family to work for so she can get away from you

Thanks, I appreciate the kind sentiment. I would LOVE to send her your way. You two deserve each other!

[Anonymous]

Please print her name so I know not to hire out. You can dismiss her for her work conduct. It is not up to par.

[Anonymous]

She's obviously a non-professional nanny.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel sorry for your next nanny. Please offer severance and let this woman find a decent family to work for so she can get away from you

Thanks, I appreciate the kind sentiment. I would LOVE to send her your way. You two deserve each other![/quote

If you are this "sweet" to the nanny, no wonder she's always in a foul mood. What the hell is wrong with her texting or calling you? She wasn't calling for a trivial reason. I'm very, very good at picking up on the subtle energy of people. Based on what I've read from you, you seem to be difficult, unhappy and hard to please. You treat the nanny like a commodity. You're a mean one OP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm ready to terminate our nanny for several reasons. Our contract has specific language regarding termination for cause, which includes vague language about non-performance of duties. I've recently posted two separate posts about her - one related to asking nanny to report on time used (she really hasn't been using kid-free time as agreed upon), and another regarding whether being on time matters in context of arriving before school pick up time. It's become increasingly clear that she just has a bad attitude. She's really Jekyll and Hyde in a lot of ways - warm, friendly, offer to help, and then surly, snide, eye-rolling, disrespectful and generally just rude to my kids. I couldn't make the statement that she ALWAYS has a bad attitude or NEVER is helpful or performs well - she's just incredibly inconsistent and spends far too much time on the underperforming/surly side of the spectrum. The last straw for me was when my spouse and I both had to leave town to go to a dying family member. While we were gone, on the day the family member died, she texted me that our kids were crying for no reason at all, and just super missed us and have just been really out of control, and can she tell grandparents it's okay for kids to watch a movie that night? I was so mad that I couldn't even respond; seriously, why would she ask me that when she knew that at best I was at the hospital and at worst the death has occurred? To ask if she could recommend a movie night? To make clear my kids were being a problem for her? The report from the grandparents was that the kids were fine when grandparents arrived, but that the nanny was acting really irritated and complained that I didn't respond to her text. Nanny now claims she didn't mean to give my parents the impression that the kids were bad; grandparents report that she stood right in front of my preschool daughter telling grandparents how naughty my daughter was - looking right at daughter and saying "you were really naughty, weren't you?" Nanny also complained to grandparents about my son being in a foul mood after school; well, he had a 102 degree fever when my parents checked him. (She had great references by the way. No idea how.)

So - nothing from the above is the single, concrete, obvious "for cause" reason, but is all of this taken together sufficient to call it a "for cause" termination?

Well, let me approach this in pieces.

I'm a nanny. Communication with parents is key to being able to perform well in my job. I don't care what you are doing, unless you explicitly tell me not to text you for anything other than an emergency during X hours, if I have a question, I'm going to text. Texting means that you can get to it when you have a moment, and it doesn't interrupt as much as a call. With that said, if I knew you were leaving to go be with a dying family member, I would have texted the MB/DB who wasn't a blood relative. I would have texted that the kids were crying, but my assumption was that they didn't understand what was going on and/or they missed you. If kids are having a bad day, absolutely, I text and tell the parent if they won't be home at the end of my shift, but I also write out exactly what happened in the daily log. Personally, I don't reward children for misbehavior, nor do I advocate that, so I would be more likely to tell the grandparents that there should not be a movie as the children were misbehaving. If a child was out of control, yes, I bring it to the parent's attention, but it's a discussion between the child, parent and myself, it's not me denigrating the child while the child stands and listens. The inconsistencies between both the texts and grandparents saying that the children misbehaved and the nanny saying that she didn't tell the grandparents that... that's not acceptable.

Ok, housework. Nanny is supposed to do one load of clothes and prep lunch on the days she starts at 11.30, pick up the child(ren), do dishes and laundry during lunch, do laundry and dusting during nap. On the days she starts at 8, she's supposed to be vacuuming, dusting, etc. If it was clear what the expectations were when she started, and it's possible to do all of the tasks without being out of breath, neglecting the kids or feeling rushed, yes, I would say it's non-performance of duties. If not, no. I can do the laundry, dishes and lunch prep in the given time, but I know plenty of others who would feel too rushed. I wouldn't agree to do your dusting, but I would be fine doing the vacuuming. But this isn't about me, it's about what the nanny signed in the contract.

Timeliness. It doesn't matter if the nanny is supposed to be at work at 4 am, noon, 4 pm, or midnight. Start time is when she's supposed to be there, things put away, ready to start work.

Attitude. Your attitude to her is a problem. Her attitude to you is a problem. Kids attitude is a problem. Her attitude to the kids is a problem. While it isn't all on her, yes, it's another reason for her to go.

OP, I wish you luck. You need to decide exactly what you want, advertise for it, and be willing to accept what you can afford. If you want a nanny/housekeeper, but the cheapest qualified person wants $19/hour, you'll have to pay $19/hour, look for nanny and housekeeper separately, or accept someone less qualified.

[Anonymous]

OP I am very sorry for your loss.

Clearly this is not working for you and your family. You need to let this nanny go. Go like go go! Fire her for being late. That would be firing for cause. I wouldn't give any severance.

Good luck OP, I hope your next nanny will be someone who takes pride in their job.

[Anonymous]

I think the issue, in terms of firing for cause, is that she is supposed to vacuum and do laundry (or whatever) and is not completing the tasks the job requires and she agreed to. The end.

It's obvious the attitude is what's bothering you the most right now, but just tell her "We're firing you for cause, effective immediately. You have consistently not been completing the tasks we told you are required for this job. Here's a check for all the time you've worked this week, plus a check for all the vacation you've accrued so far this year. May I please have our keys?"

[Anonymous]

OP, you are the MB. from HELL. I am not a nanny but I cannot imagine even Mary Poppins or Nanny McPhee working out for you. Quite frankly, you sound unhinged!

[Anonymous]

First of all, my sincere condolences to both you and your husband for your loss.

It sounds to me as if you and your nanny are simply not a good match which means there is no good or bad guy here.

Are you or have you been previously strict regarding screen time for your kids?? If so, then your nanny was not out of line in asking about movie night for the kids since there are many parents who get very annoyed if a nanny allows more screen time than is allowed.
I think your nanny was simply erring on the side of caution here.

Personally I think it is very rude to ignore a text from anyone caring for your children. If my employer didn't respond to a question I had texted, that would put me in a foul mood too!

Regarding offering severance pay, it doesn't sound like you are crazy over the idea.
If you feel your nanny hasn't been doing a satisfactory job, then by no means should you feel obligated to give her a nickel.

I just think it's best for both sides to move forward. In separate directions of course.

Best of luck to you OP.

[Anonymous]

To PP who said it's very rude to ignore a text from someone caring for your children: do you really expect immediate response to a text under any circumstances? Or that any time is an appropriate time to send a text? I'm in meetings half or more of most work days. And I just can't imagine sending a text to someone who is with a dying family member and then getting irritated that the person didn't respond to the text fast enough for me. There are circumstances where pulling out your phone just isn't okay.