OT in conjunction with vacation

[Anonymous]

We can talk about the legalities all you want, but the reality is you're not going to keep a nanny very long if you pay her less when she uses her PTO.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We can talk about the legalities all you want, but the reality is you're not going to keep a nanny very long if you pay her less when she uses her PTO.

Even if you pay her the regular amount when she uses PTO, she's not going to stay amenable to working more than during her scheduled hours during weeks she uses PTO.

I don't care what the excuse is. If I'm always scheduled 8-4 M-F, if I work outside of those hours and I live-out, I expect OT. If I had that schedule, had PTO Monday, then worked 8-8 Friday? I would expect 4 hours OT.

Now, I normally work 45+ hours per week school year, 60+ hours during the summer, and I live-in. My employers are NEVER obligated to pay OT. But they value what I do. They value that I care about their children's health, education and emotional well-being. They would NEVER shortchange me. And that's good, because no matter how much I love my charges, I won't stay with a family who doesn't value what I do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We can talk about the legalities all you want, but the reality is you're not going to keep a nanny very long if you pay her less when she uses her PTO.

Even if you pay her the regular amount when she uses PTO, she's not going to stay amenable to working more than during her scheduled hours during weeks she uses PTO.

I don't care what the excuse is. If I'm always scheduled 8-4 M-F, if I work outside of those hours and I live-out, I expect OT. If I had that schedule, had PTO Monday, then worked 8-8 Friday? I would expect 4 hours OT.

Now, I normally work 45+ hours per week school year, 60+ hours during the summer, and I live-in. My employers are NEVER obligated to pay OT. But they value what I do. They value that I care about their children's health, education and emotional well-being. They would NEVER shortchange me. And that's good, because no matter how much I love my charges, I won't stay with a family who doesn't value what I do.

Same here. My MB also didn’t pay me OT when I took a day paid day off. It wasn’t in our contract. So now when I take PTO I don’t work OT hours

[Anonymous]

it seems like OP is clear on the law and just wants to poll what people do in practice. I do pay my nanny OT hours even for vacation and holidays. So for example if she works 10 hour days and there is a holiday that week, I code the week as 32 hours regular + 8 hours holiday + 10 hours OT on payroll. This is not legally required but my thinking is that her paycheck would get pretty complicated and variable if I didn’t. And what would happen if I decide to take more of my vacation one year as 3 day weekends rather than in one week blocks? She would work a bunch of 42-hour weeks and lose 8 hours of OT every time based on my vacation choice. There are also ~10 holidays so that’s 10 weeks in which she gets much less OT pay. Add her own vacations and it could be that she doesn’t make the “full” amount something like 25% of the time.
In the end I was not confident I could explain this math and set expectations appropriately in a way the nanny would understand and actually be happy with, so I just decided to guarantee hours with OT pay and factor that into my base rate instead.

[Anonymous]

A hybrid solution here might be to calculate the OT daily rather than weekly. So any day over 8 hours = OT hours. That seems true to the intent of OT pay (extra pay for longer hours worked). I can't really imagine paying OT for vacation time--what do you do if someone says "oh, I'm taking 12 vacation hours Monday, so 8 will be regular pay and 4 overtime"? We just pay (per our contract) 8 hours per day for vacation or sick days, at the regular rate. Both sick and vacation are accrued and used hourly, so it also means that fewer vacation hours are needed to cover a day off.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes, you pay the overtime hours as if she worked. This is what is legal, without question.

It may be what is legal in the land of make believe, but here in the real world, you need support for your assertions. Please don’t offer legal advice when you clearly don’t know what the law is. You’re doing people a real disservice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s should be specified in your contract. I think nanny should be paid her normal salary during vacation or sick day. If nanny calls out sick and no longer has PTO, then, she should be paid for actual hours worked that week. Each situation is different and the best thing to do is talk to your employer and come up with something that works for everyone.

OP here. It is not addressed in the contract and we are attempting to address the issue now, as it has come up. Nanny has vacation and sick time, that’s not the issue. If nanny is working outside of her normal working hours, which would generally be OT hours, but not actually working over 40 hours due to vacation, do you pay regular rate or OT rate?

If it were me, I'd want to cut 2 hours off the PTO, so I got paid my regular 40 hours, and only was docked 6 hours of leave.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A hybrid solution here might be to calculate the OT daily rather than weekly. So any day over 8 hours = OT hours. That seems true to the intent of OT pay (extra pay for longer hours worked). I can't really imagine paying OT for vacation time--what do you do if someone says "oh, I'm taking 12 vacation hours Monday, so 8 will be regular pay and 4 overtime"? We just pay (per our contract) 8 hours per day for vacation or sick days, at the regular rate. Both sick and vacation are accrued and used hourly, so it also means that fewer vacation hours are needed to cover a day off.

I think the bolded is fine, if that's what you want to do, but it's clearly not how the OT was intended. If it was, then people who work 3 12 hour shifts (a common schedule in the medical world) would be paid overtime, and they aren't.

[Anonymous]

i had guaranteed hours with my favorite (and fairest, in terms of compensation and expectations) nf, and then agreed to come in and help for four hours on the weekend as a one off. it was a difficult day where i was supervising the kids at a carnival. one of the 3 children had special needs, and it was a challenging experience with so much stimulation for him. i wasn't feeling great that day and had schoolwork to do, but i didn't want to let them down so i went in. the following week when i got paid, i had worked under my minimum guaranteed hours monday through friday (by 2 hours, i think) and they didn't pay me any extra. i didn't agree come in on the weekend after that because it wasn't worth giving up one of my two days off (or a friday evening i could be spending with friends or family). you can choose to do whatever you feel is fair, but she can as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A hybrid solution here might be to calculate the OT daily rather than weekly. So any day over 8 hours = OT hours. That seems true to the intent of OT pay (extra pay for longer hours worked). I can't really imagine paying OT for vacation time--what do you do if someone says "oh, I'm taking 12 vacation hours Monday, so 8 will be regular pay and 4 overtime"? We just pay (per our contract) 8 hours per day for vacation or sick days, at the regular rate. Both sick and vacation are accrued and used hourly, so it also means that fewer vacation hours are needed to cover a day off.

I think the bolded is fine, if that's what you want to do, but it's clearly not how the OT was intended. If it was, then people who work 3 12 hour shifts (a common schedule in the medical world) would be paid overtime, and they aren't.

True. OT is intended only to be paid in weeks in which the nanny actually works 40 hours since it is extra pay for extra work, so in a vacation/sick leave situation, it wouldn't typically be paid at all. Offering it daily vs. weekly would just be a bonus that OP might want to consider in the spirit of the law.

It's worth noting that shifting hours in a guaranteed hours situation is a totally different issue, though. I would never expect a nanny to agree to shift hours to a weekend that she wasn't otherwise scheduled to work because she was taking vacation or was sick. Pay for that should be negotiated independently of the contracted hours, and not necessarily at the same rates.