How to ask for a reference letter from current employers

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm an MB. I would immediately see this as an indicator that you are planning to leave - especially given the "hit a few speed bumps lately". I can't imagine a way you could frame it that would make me believe anything different.

And if you do have a second job you love why do you need the letter now?

Also, just for the record, as an MB I don't take letters of reference particularly seriously. I want to speak to your references. So anything you hand me in a letter is fine, but I pretty much dismiss it if it isn't backed up by direct interaction (phone or email) w/ the person who wrote it. So I'm really not sure it's worth you pressing for unless you are planning to start interviewing.

I am not a nanny but you sound as though you go through nannies like sand through fingers!

Well, hired a nanny for the newborn who stayed with us for 3 1/2 years. Hired a second nanny for preschool age who has been with us for about 6 months but hopefully will stay for 2 yrs.

That's it. (Other than the occasional interim nanny for extended vacations of the permanent nanny.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm an MB. I would immediately see this as an indicator that you are planning to leave - especially given the "hit a few speed bumps lately". I can't imagine a way you could frame it that would make me believe anything different.

And if you do have a second job you love why do you need the letter now?

Also, just for the record, as an MB I don't take letters of reference particularly seriously. I want to speak to your references. So anything you hand me in a letter is fine, but I pretty much dismiss it if it isn't backed up by direct interaction (phone or email) w/ the person who wrote it. So I'm really not sure it's worth you pressing for unless you are planning to start interviewing.

While I generally agree, if I read a glowing letter of recommendation from an employer and then received a less that glowing recommendation when I called the same employer after the nanny told them that she would be leaving - I would tend to feel it was sour grapes on the part of the employer.

A glowing recommendation letter prior to telling the employers that you are leaving is always a good idea.

That's fair, and I'd probably feel the same way. I have had nanny candidates give me reference letters from prior employers who were unavailable for contact (and once not even possible to verify that they were ever an actual employer.)

But I agree with you - a letter that is more glowing than a post employment reference isn't necessarily a deal-breaker.

In any case, I think if OP asks for a letter now she is sending the strong message that she is a short-timer in the job. Which is totally fine if she wants to make a point, but she just needs to know what message the employer will likely receive.

OP here and I have been at this job for nearly two years so I don;t think that is considered a "short timer", is it?

No, I didn't mean short timer in terms of your overall tenure, I mean that you are now planning to leave and therefore will only be in the position for a short time longer - until you find something better. Sorry I wasn't more clear.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm an MB. I would immediately see this as an indicator that you are planning to leave - especially given the "hit a few speed bumps lately". I can't imagine a way you could frame it that would make me believe anything different.

And if you do have a second job you love why do you need the letter now?

Also, just for the record, as an MB I don't take letters of reference particularly seriously. I want to speak to your references. So anything you hand me in a letter is fine, but I pretty much dismiss it if it isn't backed up by direct interaction (phone or email) w/ the person who wrote it. So I'm really not sure it's worth you pressing for unless you are planning to start interviewing.

While I generally agree, if I read a glowing letter of recommendation from an employer and then received a less that glowing recommendation when I called the same employer after the nanny told them that she would be leaving - I would tend to feel it was sour grapes on the part of the employer.

A glowing recommendation letter prior to telling the employers that you are leaving is always a good idea.

The problem with this is that no one in any profession would give a reference who isn't going to say positive things so the reference check is really about the nuances of the conversation. Sometimes what former employers won't say is as important as what they do say. Also how they say it is extremely important. References for the best nannies I've had called me before I had a chance to call them. I had a temporary nanny once who had a lovely letter but whose reference wouldn't return my call. As soon as she started I could see why (fortunately she was only hired for a few weeks while our long-term nanny was out on leave). Contrary to what is so often said on this board, employers do not like to say bad things - most don't want to hurt someone else's livelihood. So the conversation is important for reading btwn the lines. I wouldn't hire again based on a letter alone - it's not worth much without a conversation to back it up. Sorry OP.

OP here. I understand and agree with some of your post - I would never expect to be hired based on a recommendation letter alone. However, I have been told that a written recommendation letter prior to leaving a position is good in case there are hard feelings at the leaving or if I want to look for a position before telling my current employers that I am leaving or might leave. As a PP pointed out, of course I would expect my potential employer to speak to my current employer but a glowing letter of recommendation may mitigate any nasty comments after the fact. If a nanny has been great for two years and is suddenly not so great after giving notice, isn't that a sign that it is the employer's fault and not the nanny's?

Maybe it should work that way, but in reality it doesn't really play out like that? I've hired three nannies - two long term and one temporary - and for all three and I probably interviewed 10-20 candidates? Everyone had "glowing" letters of reference and I never spoke to a former employer who said a single bad thing. It was more how they said it and how enthusiastically they responded that told me what I needed to know. I am sure there are employers out there who say nasty things but from comparing notes with my friends, it seems like the real difficulty is figuring out what a "glowing" reference is really saying. I think if you ask your current employers for a letter now without any explained reason, you won't really get what you need from them.

One suggestion - how about asking for a formal written annual review instead? Might be more useful in the long run.

[Anonymous]

The insecure parents here prove why the "Essential Procedures" (thread,) are well... essential. Reference letters must be routine, at least annual if not more often.

Most nannies have experienced temper tantrum moms when they give notice, precisely because they were such excellent nannies. Parents know how difficult it'll be to replace such a nanny.

These nannies have earned an excellent reference letter, but mom is too angry to provide it.

Nannies must protect themselves from this injustice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The insecure parents here prove why the "Essential Procedures" (thread,) are well... essential. Reference letters must be routine, at least annual if not more often.

Most nannies have experienced temper tantrum moms when they give notice, precisely because they were such excellent nannies. Parents know how difficult it'll be to replace such a nanny.

These nannies have earned an excellent reference letter, but mom is too angry to provide it.

Nannies must protect themselves from this injustice.

But if the next MB you interview with doesn't take a recommendation letter with any seriousness - why bother? OP here and I am starting to thing the whole recommendation letter thing is a waste of time and a misunderstanding-waiting-to-happen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The insecure parents here prove why the "Essential Procedures" (thread,) are well... essential. Reference letters must be routine, at least annual if not more often.

Most nannies have experienced temper tantrum moms when they give notice, precisely because they were such excellent nannies. Parents know how difficult it'll be to replace such a nanny.

These nannies have earned an excellent reference letter, but mom is too angry to provide it.

Nannies must protect themselves from this injustice.

But if the next MB you interview with doesn't take a recommendation letter with any seriousness - why bother? OP here and I am starting to thing the whole recommendation letter thing is a waste of time and a misunderstanding-waiting-to-happen.

Every potential employer loves good reference letters. It's no different here. The nasty parents saying otherwise, are misleading you. Ignore their bad advice. Of course you want the written references you earned. You have every right to that.

[Anonymous]

MB here. Reference letters aren't useless, but they in no way substitute for direct conversations with references.

If I am interviewing multiple candidates, with equivalent experience/rates/credentials etc... the one with references with whom I am able to speak directly will win every time.

A candidate who cannot back up written references with direct phone conversations that support what's in the written reference will take a back seat.

You can ignore this feedback but you will be at a disadvantage if a prospective employer only has written references to go on. (Or you're dealing with an inexperienced, foolish, or desperate employer.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:MB here. Reference letters aren't useless, but they in no way substitute for direct conversations with references.

If I am interviewing multiple candidates, with equivalent experience/rates/credentials etc... the one with references with whom I am able to speak directly will win every time.

A candidate who cannot back up written references with direct phone conversations that support what's in the written reference will take a back seat.

You can ignore this feedback but you will be at a disadvantage if a prospective employer only has written references to go on. (Or you're dealing with an inexperienced, foolish, or desperate employer.)

OP here and I am sorry if I didn't make it clear that, of course, I would provide a way for my future employers to get in touch with my current employers. I never for a moment expected to rely on just a written letter of recommendation. Again, all I am trying to do is hedge any bad feeling my current employers may have when I do give notice with a letter stating exactly what they thought of me WHILE I was working for them.

People get nasty when you tell them you are leaving - especially in a nanny situation where they feel that everyone should have a life long devotion to their very special child/children. My thought, and advice I have received, is to get a letter now while everyone is happy and hedge any bad feeling that may crop into their phone conversation with my future employers.

Seriously, this is discussed so often on this forum. I am honestly surprised that I have to explain myself over and over again.

I just asked how to approach the subject with my current employers. Sheesh...


Again, I AM NOT RELYING ON ONLY A LETTER OF RECOMMENDATION. I will provide contact numbers for my current employers and encourage my future employers to call them and speak to them. As well, I would like to give them a letter written by my current employers BEFORE they know I am leaving that gives me a glowing review.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:MB here. Reference letters aren't useless, but they in no way substitute for direct conversations with references.

If I am interviewing multiple candidates, with equivalent experience/rates/credentials etc... the one with references with whom I am able to speak directly will win every time.

A candidate who cannot back up written references with direct phone conversations that support what's in the written reference will take a back seat.

You can ignore this feedback but you will be at a disadvantage if a prospective employer only has written references to go on. (Or you're dealing with an inexperienced, foolish, or desperate employer.)

You understand you usually don't get phone numbers until the nanny is definitely interested. No one wants to waste their valuable time chatting with you if the nanny doesn't even want your job.

[Anonymous]

Oh for god's sake people.

If OP asks for a reference now, given the recent difficulties, her employers will assume she is looking for work. There's just no way around that.

All of the rest of this back and forth is clearly wasted energy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would see it as a sign that you are planning to leave.

I agree bu is that a bad thing? Some employers need to gain a little perspective and appreciation for what they have.

Good point.

[Anonymous]

OP, you have stated that you have hit a few "speed bumps" in the road lately with this current position.

Are you being 100% truthful here that you are not looking for another position? My gut feeling is that you are.

Anyway, considering you are asking for a reference letter now signifies to your current family that perhaps you are considering leaving them. Also, if you have had a few disagreements as of late, they probably are not going to have a strong desire to present you with a glowing reference.

You can always ask, it is your right, however in all honesty I think asking is only asking for more problems in your job.

I do want to wish you all the best in your future endeavors OP!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MB here. Reference letters aren't useless, but they in no way substitute for direct conversations with references.

If I am interviewing multiple candidates, with equivalent experience/rates/credentials etc... the one with references with whom I am able to speak directly will win every time.

A candidate who cannot back up written references with direct phone conversations that support what's in the written reference will take a back seat.

You can ignore this feedback but you will be at a disadvantage if a prospective employer only has written references to go on. (Or you're dealing with an inexperienced, foolish, or desperate employer.)

OP here and I am sorry if I didn't make it clear that, of course, I would provide a way for my future employers to get in touch with my current employers. I never for a moment expected to rely on just a written letter of recommendation. Again, all I am trying to do is hedge any bad feeling my current employers may have when I do give notice with a letter stating exactly what they thought of me WHILE I was working for them.

People get nasty when you tell them you are leaving - especially in a nanny situation where they feel that everyone should have a life long devotion to their very special child/children. My thought, and advice I have received, is to get a letter now while everyone is happy and hedge any bad feeling that may crop into their phone conversation with my future employers.

Seriously, this is discussed so often on this forum. I am honestly surprised that I have to explain myself over and over again.

I just asked how to approach the subject with my current employers. Sheesh...


Again, I AM NOT RELYING ON ONLY A LETTER OF RECOMMENDATION. I will provide contact numbers for my current employers and encourage my future employers to call them and speak to them. As well, I would like to give them a letter written by my current employers BEFORE they know I am leaving that gives me a glowing review.

The problem is, as an MB, it wouldn't matter to me how glowing a reference letter was unless the call was equally glowing. There are a lot of reasons a nanny could have a wonderful reference letter written during her employment and have a reference call that didn't reflect the same enthusiasm that fall squarely on the nanny. So if you're getting the letter because you think the call might not be glowing getting a glowing reference letter now isn't really going to make a difference. And if the call is glowing, then the letter was unnecessary in the first place. Which doesn't mean you shouldn't ask. But it sounds like you are worried about approaching your current employers because they make take it the wrong way, and so a couple of MBs have pointed out, it's probably not worth it for a letter that isn't going to help you much. But at the end of the day, you should do what you feel is right for you.

That said, if you want a letter, I think you pretty much just ask. If you can come up with some job you are applying for (maybe a new weekend job?), it might be better received. Or, as I suggested upthread, maybe as for a written review instead - they might be more willing to do that without bad feelings and it will serve the same purpose later on.

[Anonymous]

Nanny here. I would not get one until the position is ending or has come to an end. Your employers will likely see it as a sign that you are leaving. Why would you update things with no intentions of leaving? I would never do that. Ask and you will likely be looking for a new job.

[Anonymous]

OP, I'm a nanny. I've had good luck with asking for a reference letter for other things like volunteering, mentoring, etc. Good luck!