Minimum wage rising and nannies wages

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can't imagine setting up a share the way the previous poster describes, with two separate agreements, checks, etc.. I always thought that if I did a share, the other parents and I would set it up together so that we were jointly the one employer, and the onus for collecting the money, taxes, etc. would fall on us. Having two separate bosses seems absurd. So one family could just leave the share with impunity, and the other family wouldn't be on the hook to pay you more?

No, that's not the way I have ever done it. In my experience, if a share family jilts me on a check, it's my issue with them, just as it would be in the case of a non share job. I would never expect the other family to pay the difference, and I have a feeling that if I did, they'd look at me like I had two heads. Its two families, two sets of bosses, and two jobs to juggle. They conveniently share hours and location, but that's it. My employers literally don't even see each other on a regular basis outside of any meetings I may call.

I certainly hope they each pay you minimum wage, at the very least. You have a full plate managing two families.

Yes, well above it, thank you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can't imagine setting up a share the way the previous poster describes, with two separate agreements, checks, etc.. I always thought that if I did a share, the other parents and I would set it up together so that we were jointly the one employer, and the onus for collecting the money, taxes, etc. would fall on us. Having two separate bosses seems absurd. So one family could just leave the share with impunity, and the other family wouldn't be on the hook to pay you more?

No, that's not the way I have ever done it. In my experience, if a share family jilts me on a check, it's my issue with them, just as it would be in the case of a non share job. I would never expect the other family to pay the difference, and I have a feeling that if I did, they'd look at me like I had two heads. Its two families, two sets of bosses, and two jobs to juggle. They conveniently share hours and location, but that's it. My employers literally don't even see each other on a regular basis outside of any meetings I may call.

I certainly hope they each pay you minimum wage, at the very least. You have a full plate managing two families.

Yes, well above it, thank you.

So happy to hear that. Congratulations. In my book, one of the many characteristics of a professional, is understanding the true value of your professional services, and getting compensated appropriately.

Both nannies and parents can learn this from you.

Thank you for posting here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:She hasn't posted on this forum in ages. Besides, I'm sure she's obligated to adhere to your local laws, which can affect the legality of a nanny share. Did you mention where you live?

For years? Last she posted in August 2013. http://www.dcurbanmom.com/nanny-forum/posts/list/283790.page#3017921

Is everything you say that well-researched?

[nannydebsays]

Anonymous wrote:I can't imagine setting up a share the way the previous poster describes, with two separate agreements, checks, etc.. I always thought that if I did a share, the other parents and I would set it up together so that we were jointly the one employer, and the onus for collecting the money, taxes, etc. would fall on us. Having two separate bosses seems absurd. So one family could just leave the share with impunity, and the other family wouldn't be on the hook to pay you more?

How do 2 different families, at different addresses, become a single employer? Do they form an LLC or something? If so, whose legal address goes on those documents, and on all the employer tax documents? How do 2 families as a single entity use the childcare tax credits? I'm not trying to be snarky, I am just trying to get folks to look at this logically.

If I worked in a nanny share, I would have 3 different contracts: one for family A, in which their pay obligations/hours/etc. would be outlined, one for family B, same details, and one Share Contract, covering everyone's expectations and obligations, including a section on what happens if she share ends. That would include how much notice must be given, how long one family must pay nanny's full salary (I would have a 6 week notice, an obligation on all 3 parties to seek a new share partner, and 2 weeks obligation for the remaining family to pay the full nanny salary.), and every other tiny detail that makes a complex situation with 2 employers and a single employee work smoothly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She hasn't posted on this forum in ages. Besides, I'm sure she's obligated to adhere to your local laws, which can affect the legality of a nanny share. Did you mention where you live?

For years? Last she posted in August 2013. http://www.dcurbanmom.com/nanny-forum/posts/list/283790.page#3017921

Is everything you say that well-researched?

Is everything you read, not comprehended?

[Anonymous]

How do 2 different families, at different addresses, become a single employer? Do they form an LLC or something? If so, whose legal address goes on those documents, and on all the employer tax documents? How do 2 families as a single entity use the childcare tax credits? I'm not trying to be snarky, I am just trying to get folks to look at this logically.

1. The work agreement is signed by the nanny and the two employers. The work agreement defines the aspects of the job. The hours, gross hourly wage, location, expectations, PTO, defines holidays, inclement weather policies etc. A work agreement is not a contract. Legally these are different documents. The nanny is always an at will employee. The work agreement is for one job. The employers and nanny can stipulate in the work agreement what happens when the share ends.

2. Both employers set up an employer tax ID and manage payroll for their portion. They both withhold employee taxes, pay employer taxes, and file. The nanny receives 2 W-2s for her taxes. There is no requirement that the employer gross wage be above minimum wage as long as the job itself is a gross wage above minimum wage.

3. If one employer fails to pay, the nanny is harmed individual and has the right to take them to small claims court. The nanny can also report them to the state employment agency. The state employment agency would fine the employer that didn't pay. If the other employer knowingly continued knowing that their was no longer a join employer then that employer would be responsible. For example, if the share dissolved and the nanny stay on until a new joint employer was found, the remaining employer would be responsible for paying minimum wage.

Its not that hard a concept. Joint employment occurs in other fields. Employment law allows more than one employer to exist for one job which is the basic concept underlying a share.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She hasn't posted on this forum in ages. Besides, I'm sure she's obligated to adhere to your local laws, which can affect the legality of a nanny share. Did you mention where you live?

For years? Last she posted in August 2013. http://www.dcurbanmom.com/nanny-forum/posts/list/283790.page#3017921

Is everything you say that well-researched?

Is everything you read, not comprehended?

Do you feel that a period of four months constitute "ages"?

[Anonymous]

nannydebsays wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can't imagine setting up a share the way the previous poster describes, with two separate agreements, checks, etc.. I always thought that if I did a share, the other parents and I would set it up together so that we were jointly the one employer, and the onus for collecting the money, taxes, etc. would fall on us. Having two separate bosses seems absurd. So one family could just leave the share with impunity, and the other family wouldn't be on the hook to pay you more?

How do 2 different families, at different addresses, become a single employer? Do they form an LLC or something? If so, whose legal address goes on those documents, and on all the employer tax documents? How do 2 families as a single entity use the childcare tax credits? I'm not trying to be snarky, I am just trying to get folks to look at this logically.

If I worked in a nanny share, I would have 3 different contracts: one for family A, in which their pay obligations/hours/etc. would be outlined, one for family B, same details, and one Share Contract, covering everyone's expectations and obligations, including a section on what happens if she share ends. That would include how much notice must be given, how long one family must pay nanny's full salary (I would have a 6 week notice, an obligation on all 3 parties to seek a new share partner, and 2 weeks obligation for the remaining family to pay the full nanny salary.), and every other tiny detail that makes a complex situation with 2 employers and a single employee work smoothly.

They don't become a single employer. They form a joint employment relationship, a scenario well outlined in the law. Employers have two sets of tax documentation, each with their own address. Each family uses their own childcare tax credit vs. how much that family has paid out.

Our tax preparer, HomeWorks Solutions, which does a ton of work on nanny taxes in this area, handled all our tax records and confirmed that there is no requirement for each share partner to pay minimum wage. Only the total rate counts. I will take her opinion.

[Anonymous]

nannydebsays wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can't imagine setting up a share the way the previous poster describes, with two separate agreements, checks, etc.. I always thought that if I did a share, the other parents and I would set it up together so that we were jointly the one employer, and the onus for collecting the money, taxes, etc. would fall on us. Having two separate bosses seems absurd. So one family could just leave the share with impunity, and the other family wouldn't be on the hook to pay you more?

How do 2 different families, at different addresses, become a single employer? Do they form an LLC or something? If so, whose legal address goes on those documents, and on all the employer tax documents? How do 2 families as a single entity use the childcare tax credits? I'm not trying to be snarky, I am just trying to get folks to look at this logically.

If I worked in a nanny share, I would have 3 different contracts: one for family A, in which their pay obligations/hours/etc. would be outlined, one for family B, same details, and one Share Contract, covering everyone's expectations and obligations, including a section on what happens if she share ends. That would include how much notice must be given, how long one family must pay nanny's full salary (I would have a 6 week notice, an obligation on all 3 parties to seek a new share partner, and 2 weeks obligation for the remaining family to pay the full nanny salary.), and every other tiny detail that makes a complex situation with 2 employers and a single employee work smoothly.

You understand that no nanny "contract" has ever been legally enforced (at least as far as anyone on this forums knows)? The only thing that gets occasionally enforced, is payment of back wages. Nanny contracts are usually useful to get over on naive nannies who come from ethical families, and just want to be good girls.

Most employers don't much care about a useless piece of paper. Oh, did it say MB has to give you severance if you get no advanced notice of your termination? Sorry, cash is tight this month. (We're going Hawaii next week for the holidays.) Just try to bring that to court. Wise up. Can't make your rent or mortgage payment without your "contracted" paycheck? Too bad. Maybe next time you'll request a couple of references before you trust a total stranger to obey the law.

No where to go this weekend, seeing that MB intends on firing the live-in nanny on Friday evening, allowing 15-20 minutes to pack up, and immediately escorting her out the door, as per her lawyer's advice: "You don't want to risk having a disgruntled nanny near your children, or your diamonds (even more risky!).

Haven't most of us here in the nanny world heard similar experiences? If not, it's only a matter of time, and keeping your ears open.

[Anonymous]

Back to the original topic at hand... I don't think changing the minimum wage law will affect live out nanny salaries as most people in the DC area pay above 11:50 an hour anyway.

It could have an impact on live in nanny salaries which are closer to $10-$12 an hour. The families could switch to a model where they deduct rent but this is a lot of paperwork. I would guess that more families would switch to an au pair but many existing live ins would get a bump in pay.

The increase would have a substantial impact on daycare costs. Its already hard for daycare centers or in-home daycare to turn a profit with the ratios. Many daycare workers make below 11:50 and they have better child care experience/certifications than nannies. This turns the tables for them. I remember when my oldest was a baby a nanny was much cheaper than a DC daycare center. This will probably flip back to this for awhile.

If daycare costs rise, more cost sensitive families may look for nanny shares BUT they will not be paying the $18-$20 an hour share rates nannies hope to get. The increase in share job positions could lower those rates substantially.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

nannydebsays wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can't imagine setting up a share the way the previous poster describes, with two separate agreements, checks, etc.. I always thought that if I did a share, the other parents and I would set it up together so that we were jointly the one employer, and the onus for collecting the money, taxes, etc. would fall on us. Having two separate bosses seems absurd. So one family could just leave the share with impunity, and the other family wouldn't be on the hook to pay you more?

How do 2 different families, at different addresses, become a single employer? Do they form an LLC or something? If so, whose legal address goes on those documents, and on all the employer tax documents? How do 2 families as a single entity use the childcare tax credits? I'm not trying to be snarky, I am just trying to get folks to look at this logically.

If I worked in a nanny share, I would have 3 different contracts: one for family A, in which their pay obligations/hours/etc. would be outlined, one for family B, same details, and one Share Contract, covering everyone's expectations and obligations, including a section on what happens if she share ends. That would include how much notice must be given, how long one family must pay nanny's full salary (I would have a 6 week notice, an obligation on all 3 parties to seek a new share partner, and 2 weeks obligation for the remaining family to pay the full nanny salary.), and every other tiny detail that makes a complex situation with 2 employers and a single employee work smoothly.

You understand that no nanny "contract" has ever been legally enforced (at least as far as anyone on this forums knows)? The only thing that gets occasionally enforced, is payment of back wages. Nanny contracts are usually useful to get over on naive nannies who come from ethical families, and just want to be good girls.

Most employers don't much care about a useless piece of paper. Oh, did it say MB has to give you severance if you get no advanced notice of your termination? Sorry, cash is tight this month. (We're going Hawaii next week for the holidays.) Just try to bring that to court. Wise up. Can't make your rent or mortgage payment without your "contracted" paycheck? Too bad. Maybe next time you'll request a couple of references before you trust a total stranger to obey the law.

No where to go this weekend, seeing that MB intends on firing the live-in nanny on Friday evening, allowing 15-20 minutes to pack up, and immediately escorting her out the door, as per her lawyer's advice: "You don't want to risk having a disgruntled nanny near your children, or your diamonds (even more risky!).

Haven't most of us here in the nanny world heard similar experiences? If not, it's only a matter of time, and keeping your ears open.

To be fair, the same is true for the nanny. The contract may call for the nanny to give two weeks notice, but if she finds a better position and wants to leave immediately, her employer can't stop her or force her to work the notice period.

[Anonymous]

You understand that no nanny "contract" has ever been legally enforced (at least as far as anyone on this forums knows)? The only thing that gets occasionally enforced, is payment of back wages. Nanny contracts are usually useful to get over on naive nannies who come from ethical families, and just want to be good girls.

Most employers don't much care about a useless piece of paper. Oh, did it say MB has to give you severance if you get no advanced notice of your termination? Sorry, cash is tight this month. (We're going Hawaii next week for the holidays.) Just try to bring that to court. Wise up. Can't make your rent or mortgage payment without your "contracted" paycheck? Too bad. Maybe next time you'll request a couple of references before you trust a total stranger to obey the law.

No where to go this weekend, seeing that MB intends on firing the live-in nanny on Friday evening, allowing 15-20 minutes to pack up, and immediately escorting her out the door, as per her lawyer's advice: "You don't want to risk having a disgruntled nanny near your children, or your diamonds (even more risky!).

Haven't most of us here in the nanny world heard similar experiences? If not, it's only a matter of time, and keeping your ears open.

First, its a work agreement not a contract. These are different which some of you can't grasp. A work agreement is enforceable and your written record of what was agreed upon. A nanny always has the option to file in small claims court. Its not very hard but you do need to be organized, keep records, and speak without emotionally ranting.

1. If you are unpaid for hours that you worked, your state's employment agency can help you get those wages.
2. Severance is almost never given as a work agreement (or contract in your language) clause. Severance is almost always discretionary. If the employer was dumb enough to include this, you can file i small claims court. If the employer was actually firing you for cause then you will not win and you can't argue that eating cheese doodles all day was really your right to do. If your employer abolished the position and does not bring up any examples of why you would be fired for not meeting job expectations then you would prevail and get it.
3. Work agreements are not for naive nannies. They are for smart nannies and smart employers to avoid any confusion about which holidays are paid and which are not, how much notice for vacation, does PTO accrue or is it available all at once and many other things.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Back to the original topic at hand... I don't think changing the minimum wage law will affect live out nanny salaries as most people in the DC area pay above 11:50 an hour anyway.

It could have an impact on live in nanny salaries which are closer to $10-$12 an hour. The families could switch to a model where they deduct rent but this is a lot of paperwork. I would guess that more families would switch to an au pair but many existing live ins would get a bump in pay.

The increase would have a substantial impact on daycare costs. Its already hard for daycare centers or in-home daycare to turn a profit with the ratios. Many daycare workers make below 11:50 and they have better child care experience/certifications than nannies. This turns the tables for them. I remember when my oldest was a baby a nanny was much cheaper than a DC daycare center. This will probably flip back to this for awhile.

If daycare costs rise, more cost sensitive families may look for nanny shares BUT they will not be paying the $18-$20 an hour share rates nannies hope to get. The increase in share job positions could lower those rates substantially.

Agree with most of what you're saying, except for this. That is the opposite of how things work. Increased demand does not lower something's value, rather it increases it. If suddenly more families are looking for shares, the jobs they offer will have to compete with all the other share jobs, and I suspect will lead to a slight bump in share rates as well as daycare rates.

[Anonymous]

Written agreements are very useful if all parties are honest enough to actually adhere to them, or at least formally modify them with joint consent.

Don't you love it when the employer formally stipulates in the agreement that the nanny must be "flexible" in terms of her availability (oops, I'll be two hours late tonight, just cancel your plans) and in terms of her "responsibilities"?

We didn't realize how little "work" it is to put up with our spoiled rotten out-of-control kids all day, so here's the housekeeper's task list. No sense in paying both of you, so we fired her. She said she can't keep an eye on the kids while she's cleaning. Parents do it all the time you know, so you can do it to. But don't forget, if one of the kids gets hurt because you weren't doing your job, you know what will happen to you, don't you?

[Anonymous]

I'm not sure why anyone would stay in a share for 11:50/hr when they can get a very qualified nanny of their own for 4 dollars an hour more.

Shares would not be worth it and it is the share nanny who will lose as those jobs become extinct.