Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If your husband is badgering you for sex, and you don't really feel like, but you agree, that's consent. That's 100% not rape. Stop using rape to describe not rape.

Your right. But if you read the link you will find it could be sexual coercion.

I agree that's possible, but it wasn't PP's example. She said it was sex by fraud because if she'd known he was the type of person who cheats, she would not have slept with him. That's different than coercion. It retroactively converts even freely-given consent to rape any time someone comes to realize their relationship partner is a loser.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If your husband is badgering you for sex, and you don't really feel like, but you agree, that's consent. That's 100% not rape. Stop using rape to describe not rape.

You seem pretty invested in labeling it "not rape." So, fine, if a man is coercing, badgering, and Not Raping (tm) his wife in a way that causes her to "consent" (wink, wink) and inflicts sexual trauma, are we cool with that?

PP. here.

It is disappointing how feminists speak of empowerment, and equality, even as they readily abdicate their own agency in making decisions to men.

Not being content with misappropriating the word "rape," you've now moved to second best with "coercing." I guess this is when he says that you hurt his feelings because you won't sleep with him? Is it "rapey" when he gives you the silent treatment? Are you not in control of your own body? You so badly want men to be responsible for what is ultimately your decision that you will use any inflammatory and loaded language as a weapon to so long as it suits your agenda.

Well, this feminist agrees with you. But I was born in the 60s, so perhaps a different kind of feminist than the PP above.

The crux of this is when the request for sex is "badgering." If it's "badgering," then it's coercive. If you ask for sex once or state your desire to have sex once, that's not coercive. It's an expression of desire. If the other person shares the desire, great! If the person doesn't share the desire, no big deal. Ask a second time, a little later, you're still in pretty much the same territory. Do it enough times that it constitutes badgering, and you are no longer attempting to communicate your desire or ask for information about the other person's desire. Your repeated requests are an attempt to pressure the person into having sex even though you know that the person has no desire to do so. You are now a shitty person.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
It is totally 100% OK for a husband to ask a wife for sex as many times as he wants no matter how many times she says no. And it is totally within her power to say no as many times as she wants.

Who taught you how to be married? That's not o.k. If she says she doesn't want to have sex with you tonight and to leave her alone, and you ask her 10 more times that night, you clearly have no regard for what she wants. You are telling her that if she wants you to leave her alone, she has to have sex with you; and that if she doesn't have sex with you, then you will never shut up about it.

It's totally within your power to respect the wishes of your spouse, and that's what you should do.

ZachF wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If your husband is badgering you for sex, and you don't really feel like, but you agree, that's consent. That's 100% not rape. Stop using rape to describe not rape.

You seem pretty invested in labeling it "not rape." So, fine, if a man is coercing, badgering, and Not Raping (tm) his wife in a way that causes her to "consent" (wink, wink) and inflicts sexual trauma, are we cool with that?

PP. here.

It is disappointing how feminists speak of empowerment, and equality, even as they readily abdicate their own agency in making decisions to men.

Not being content with misappropriating the word "rape," you've now moved to second best with "coercing." I guess this is when he says that you hurt his feelings because you won't sleep with him? Is it "rapey" when he gives you the silent treatment? Are you not in control of your own body? You so badly want men to be responsible for what is ultimately your decision that you will use any inflammatory and loaded language as a weapon to so long as it suits your agenda.

Well, this feminist agrees with you. But I was born in the 60s, so perhaps a different kind of feminist than the PP above.

The crux of this is when the request for sex is "badgering." If it's "badgering," then it's coercive. If you ask for sex once or state your desire to have sex once, that's not coercive. It's an expression of desire. If the other person shares the desire, great! If the person doesn't share the desire, no big deal. Ask a second time, a little later, you're still in pretty much the same territory. Do it enough times that it constitutes badgering, and you are no longer attempting to communicate your desire or ask for information about the other person's desire. Your repeated requests are an attempt to pressure the person into having sex even though you know that the person has no desire to do so. You are now a shitty person.

Shitty, yes. Pathetic even, begging for sex. Call him a whiny bitch if you like. But if all his begging, or badgering if you like that term, leads her to giving in just to shut him up, it's still not rape.

Anonymous wrote:

ZachF wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If your husband is badgering you for sex, and you don't really feel like, but you agree, that's consent. That's 100% not rape. Stop using rape to describe not rape.

You seem pretty invested in labeling it "not rape." So, fine, if a man is coercing, badgering, and Not Raping (tm) his wife in a way that causes her to "consent" (wink, wink) and inflicts sexual trauma, are we cool with that?

PP. here.

It is disappointing how feminists speak of empowerment, and equality, even as they readily abdicate their own agency in making decisions to men.

Not being content with misappropriating the word "rape," you've now moved to second best with "coercing." I guess this is when he says that you hurt his feelings because you won't sleep with him? Is it "rapey" when he gives you the silent treatment? Are you not in control of your own body? You so badly want men to be responsible for what is ultimately your decision that you will use any inflammatory and loaded language as a weapon to so long as it suits your agenda.

Well, this feminist agrees with you. But I was born in the 60s, so perhaps a different kind of feminist than the PP above.

I avoid sex with my wife. It is now a tool she uses to try to get what she wants. I refuse to play that game. No sex is better than shitty sex.


The crux of this is when the request for sex is "badgering." If it's "badgering," then it's coercive. If you ask for sex once or state your desire to have sex once, that's not coercive. It's an expression of desire. If the other person shares the desire, great! If the person doesn't share the desire, no big deal. Ask a second time, a little later, you're still in pretty much the same territory. Do it enough times that it constitutes badgering, and you are no longer attempting to communicate your desire or ask for information about the other person's desire. Your repeated requests are an attempt to pressure the person into having sex even though you know that the person has no desire to do so. You are now a shitty person.

Shitty, yes. Pathetic even, begging for sex. Call him a whiny bitch if you like. But if all his begging, or badgering if you like that term, leads her to giving in just to shut him up, it's still not rape.

It is interesting. As a guy I have had women do the same to me and women who I am not in a relationship with let a lone married. Does this definition apply to women? Remember our society expects a man to be rejected by a woman for sex. With women it is different. If she decides she wants sex with a man, the man has no say in the matter. No man would ever not want to have sex with any women...right?

Anonymous wrote:

ZachF wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If your husband is badgering you for sex, and you don't really feel like, but you agree, that's consent. That's 100% not rape. Stop using rape to describe not rape.

You seem pretty invested in labeling it "not rape." So, fine, if a man is coercing, badgering, and Not Raping (tm) his wife in a way that causes her to "consent" (wink, wink) and inflicts sexual trauma, are we cool with that?

PP. here.

It is disappointing how feminists speak of empowerment, and equality, even as they readily abdicate their own agency in making decisions to men.

Not being content with misappropriating the word "rape," you've now moved to second best with "coercing." I guess this is when he says that you hurt his feelings because you won't sleep with him? Is it "rapey" when he gives you the silent treatment? Are you not in control of your own body? You so badly want men to be responsible for what is ultimately your decision that you will use any inflammatory and loaded language as a weapon to so long as it suits your agenda.

Well, this feminist agrees with you. But I was born in the 60s, so perhaps a different kind of feminist than the PP above.

The crux of this is when the request for sex is "badgering." If it's "badgering," then it's coercive. If you ask for sex once or state your desire to have sex once, that's not coercive. It's an expression of desire. If the other person shares the desire, great! If the person doesn't share the desire, no big deal. Ask a second time, a little later, you're still in pretty much the same territory. Do it enough times that it constitutes badgering, and you are no longer attempting to communicate your desire or ask for information about the other person's desire. Your repeated requests are an attempt to pressure the person into having sex even though you know that the person has no desire to do so. You are now a shitty person.

Shitty, yes. Pathetic even, begging for sex. Call him a whiny bitch if you like. But if all his begging, or badgering if you like that term, leads her to giving in just to shut him up, it's still not rape.

It is interesting. As a guy I have had women do the same to me and women who I am not in a relationship with let a lone married. Does this definition apply to women? Remember our society expects a man to be rejected by a woman for sex. With women it is different. If she decides she wants sex with a man, the man has no say in the matter. No man would ever not want to have sex with any women...right?

Anonymous wrote:

ZachF wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If your husband is badgering you for sex, and you don't really feel like, but you agree, that's consent. That's 100% not rape. Stop using rape to describe not rape.

You seem pretty invested in labeling it "not rape." So, fine, if a man is coercing, badgering, and Not Raping (tm) his wife in a way that causes her to "consent" (wink, wink) and inflicts sexual trauma, are we cool with that?

PP. here.

It is disappointing how feminists speak of empowerment, and equality, even as they readily abdicate their own agency in making decisions to men.

Not being content with misappropriating the word "rape," you've now moved to second best with "coercing." I guess this is when he says that you hurt his feelings because you won't sleep with him? Is it "rapey" when he gives you the silent treatment? Are you not in control of your own body? You so badly want men to be responsible for what is ultimately your decision that you will use any inflammatory and loaded language as a weapon to so long as it suits your agenda.

Well, this feminist agrees with you. But I was born in the 60s, so perhaps a different kind of feminist than the PP above.

The crux of this is when the request for sex is "badgering." If it's "badgering," then it's coercive. If you ask for sex once or state your desire to have sex once, that's not coercive. It's an expression of desire. If the other person shares the desire, great! If the person doesn't share the desire, no big deal. Ask a second time, a little later, you're still in pretty much the same territory. Do it enough times that it constitutes badgering, and you are no longer attempting to communicate your desire or ask for information about the other person's desire. Your repeated requests are an attempt to pressure the person into having sex even though you know that the person has no desire to do so. You are now a shitty person.

Shitty, yes. Pathetic even, begging for sex. Call him a whiny bitch if you like. But if all his begging, or badgering if you like that term, leads her to giving in just to shut him up, it's still not rape.

It is interesting. As a guy I have had women do the same to me and women who I am not in a relationship with let a lone married. Does this definition apply to women? Remember our society expects a man to be rejected by a woman for sex. With women it is different. If she decides she wants sex with a man, the man has no say in the matter. No man would ever not want to have sex with any women...right?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
If you want to call someone "shitty," fine. But loaded terms like "rape" and "rapey" should not be used so recklessly.

It may be inappropriate, but I wouldn't call it "reckless." The coercion necessary to turn a demand for sex into rape is not a bright line but is a spectrum. Put a knife to her throat = rape. Threaten to cut someone else's throat = rape. Threaten to throw her out in the street with no clothes or money = probably rape. Threaten to fire her = closer to the line but still damaging and coercive. Threatening to keep requesting sex until she gives in is probably on the non-rape side of the line, but it's still coercive and damaging. And you can see that rape line from there. So, I don't think using a term like "rapey" is reckless.

No. If she doesn't want to have sex, nothing is preventing her from not having it. So don't.

Again, this narrative paints the woman as a delicate thing who can't be expected to stand up for herself in the face of unending "requests." You don't want to listen to the requests anymore? Stand up on your own two feet and walk out the door.

I am not a delicate thing. I fended off repeated unwanted advances. I refused to put my head in the sand and actively monitored my DH to uncover his lies. I did this despite the severe negative career and financial impact. And why the hell should *I* walk out? I didn't do anything wrong. When I had adequate, indisputable evidence, I told my husband the relationship was over and that *he* would have to leave. Then I had to fend off his repeated advances over the next two years of co-parenting.

My question is, what kind of culture normalizes this -- that it's OK for a guy to lie to get sex and it's OK for a guy to repeatedly harass a woman for sex despite repeatedly being told no. IMO, it's rape culture. No one would ever tolerate this behavior from a stranger at a frat party, why should I tolerate it from someone who was my husband? Why do you think it's OK for a guy to repeatedly behave like this and put the responsibility on me to say no a hundred times a hundred different ways? No means no. I should only have to say it once.

Anonymous wrote:

ZachF wrote:
Shitty, yes. Pathetic even, begging for sex. Call him a whiny bitch if you like. But if all his begging, or badgering if you like that term, leads her to giving in just to shut him up, it's still not rape.

It is interesting. As a guy I have had women do the same to me and women who I am not in a relationship with let a lone married. Does this definition apply to women? Remember our society expects a man to be rejected by a woman for sex. With women it is different. If she decides she wants sex with a man, the man has no say in the matter. No man would ever not want to have sex with any women...right?

Anonymous wrote:
You shouldn't have to say no. When you turn away, are busy doing stuff that should be enough of a hint in a marriage. Sex needs to be something both want to do, not one taking advantage of the other. It's like anything else, lack of respect starts chipping away at the foundation. It's one small part of a marriage, I can think of many other aspects that are more important than mine or my spouses sexual needs. Our kids, good communication, finances, etc.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
You shouldn't have to say no. When you turn away, are busy doing stuff that should be enough of a hint in a marriage. Sex needs to be something both want to do, not one taking advantage of the other. It's like anything else, lack of respect starts chipping away at the foundation. It's one small part of a marriage, I can think of many other aspects that are more important than mine or my spouses sexual needs. Our kids, good communication, finances, etc.

So many marriages break up over sex that it is manifestly stupid to dismiss it as a "small part of a marriage".

Sure would hate to be married to a bitch like you.

ZachF wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If your husband is badgering you for sex, and you don't really feel like, but you agree, that's consent. That's 100% not rape. Stop using rape to describe not rape.

Your right. But if you read the link you will find it could be sexual coercion.

I agree that's possible, but it wasn't PP's example. She said it was sex by fraud because if she'd known he was the type of person who cheats, she would not have slept with him. That's different than coercion. It retroactively converts even freely-given consent to rape any time someone comes to realize their relationship partner is a loser.

Wow, SMH. Since I've been accused as being "rough," I'll try to temper my comments for the more delicate readers. I'm glad for the education and for knowing their are people out there who really think this way. May I be so lucky to spot them before they spot me so I know to steer clear. By these definitions of rape, I figure about 99% of us can say they were the victim of rape by the time we reach 40, if not a lot sooner.

Consensual sex acts retroactively convertible to rape if either party discovers the other wasn't honest about his/her intentions, feelings, used coercion, or was possibly cheating? Damn, I have definitely been raped in the past. I may be being raped on a regular basis right now! By definition, I won't know until later, right?