Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote:Just stopping by to give you a short Salam my dear,

The Prophet saw said that deeds of people would be presented to Allah every week on two days, Monday and Thursday, and every believing servant would be granted pardon except the one in whose (heart) there is rancour against his brother and it would be said: Leave them and put them off until they are turned to reconciliation ( Muslim)! Today is Thursday, may our good deeds be presented to the Most Merciful, ma salaama ~

So true. Thank you for your gentle reminder. I think its time for me to refer this thread & others over to a few anti defamation and Islamic relations groups and bow out, especially now that I see this posters unwillingness to learn Quranic Arabic or talk to any scholar. I have been replying but trying to keep my cool. But I did read in the Quran the other day that Allah wants us to leave such people to Him to deal with. I shall do both.

Please say a dua for me.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Looks to me like you are afraid to meet with a muslim.

I grew up among them, married one, gave birth to one and am carrying another, you ninny. There's nothing remotely scary about most of them.

Any muslim man that married a woman with such rank hatred of his religion is probably going to be asked by Allah WHY he married you and allowed you to be responsible for raising muslim children. I want front seats for that questioning. One has to ask if he is a true Muslim.

That question is moot. In Islam, the child of a Muslim man is Muslim.

It's not like he has a real choice about it, especially in certain Muslim countries, where, if he found that Muslim beliefs didn't really fit him and he'd really be another religion or none at all, he'd be guilt of apostasy and subject to capital punishment. So yes he is Muslim but he may not buy into very little of it.

Thus he may feel very little compunction about marrying an intelligent woman who has the wit to question a certain tenets of his titular Islam and laughs with him about Muslim women who call into religion radio shows to ask if she can undress in a room where she thinks a male jinn may be present.

I am not the PP who is married to the Muslim and mother of two Muslims (one in utero).

And news flash-- if a man does not accept major tenets of Islam, he's not Muslim.

You are being purposely obtuse again. Islamic law does not permit people born Muslims who don't practice and don't care--those you would considered to not be true Muslims--to change their civil status to nonMuslim. Islamic law says such Muslims are indeed Muslims and cannot change that without risking apostasy charges. You are stuck with it all your life, as are your children and their children, at least for all matters dealing with civil status.

I am quite sure you know this--you just choose to attack PP and her husband instead of addressing the fact that Islam really doesn't envision freedom of religion.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

So true. Thank you for your gentle reminder. I think its time for me to refer this thread & others over to a few anti defamation and Islamic relations groups and bow out, especially now that I see this posters unwillingness to learn Quranic Arabic or talk to any scholar. I have been replying but trying to keep my cool. But I did read in the Quran the other day that Allah wants us to leave such people to Him to deal with. I shall do both.

Please say a dua for me.

Reading between the lines, since you've been called out for your gross insults, now you're going with threats.

But we do now have a definition of an Islam hater: Someone who refuses to learn Quranic Arabic or talk to an Islamic scholar.

I see. Might they also be a christianevangelicalcrusader with STDs and no teeth? That would narrow the pool a little. Otherwise that description fits pretty much anyone non-Muslim, and a big old chunk of Muslims.

Anonymous wrote:You just can't stop yourself from spinning threads to make it look like you were even remotely persuasive.

Anonymous wrote:[

Oh puhhhhhleassseeee. And for anybody who really wants a laugh, a summary of this thread and the genuine "challenges" Muslim posters faced:

...

Muslim: the sura Muslima quoted showed that Islam made women politically relevant
IslamHater: No, it was an admission for membership into the Prophets tribe.
Muslim: yes, and that an oath was administered for entry into his tribe makes her politically relevant because more oaths= more power
IslamHater: okay, but then its at least discriminatory because the same oath was not administered to men. <note the deflection again>
Muslim: ummm, yes it was. A group of men took the oath in the treaty under the tree, to become members of his tribe and pledge allegiance to the Prophet.
IslamHater: <silence>

And there you have it folks. These are not challenges. They are pitiful misunderstandings based on her google ability, TV shows about Indonesian children, radio shows airing uneducated listener comments who she likes to mock, and reliance on unreliable, literal English translations of the holy Quran.

Here's what you actually said, right in the middle of the debate on whether women had the vote 1400 years ago, on page 35 if anybody wants to go back and see for themselves:

10/10/2014 01:20

Anonymous wrote:[Muslima, I'm just an ignorant, barefoot, veiled Muslim gal. Can you explain to me what it means to be a very American woman? Does it mean she's wearing a baseball cap, her boyfriend's boxers, a nose ring, a few tattoos, and eating apple pie? ??

10/10/2014 01:07

Anonymous wrote:Post a pic of your last pap smear lab results showing your STD (HPV seems to be popular in western states) and maybe we Muslims will feel sorry for you too.

And then your "apology" took the form of faking regret for insulting all American women, instead of just insulting your nemesis (not me).

FWIW, I've been watching this thread, and I agree with the PP who says that you failed to prove that satisfying a demand to promise you will behave yourself is a form of "voting." It's more like when the INS used to turn away people with tuberculosis, because no host country wants to allow people to enter who will contaminate the home population, either physically (tuberculosis) or morally (the Muslim woman's pledge of good behavior).

Your error above is in the fourth line, where you claim your nemesis says "okay" to your claim that this makes women "politically relevant." No, she never said that. Nobody else ever said that, either. You're making that up.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

So true. Thank you for your gentle reminder. I think its time for me to refer this thread & others over to a few anti defamation and Islamic relations groups and bow out, especially now that I see this posters unwillingness to learn Quranic Arabic or talk to any scholar. I have been replying but trying to keep my cool. But I did read in the Quran the other day that Allah wants us to leave such people to Him to deal with. I shall do both.

Please say a dua for me.

Reading between the lines, since you've been called out for your gross insults, now you're going with threats.

But we do now have a definition of an Islam hater: Someone who refuses to learn Quranic Arabic or talk to an Islamic scholar.

I see. Might they also be a christianevangelicalcrusader with STDs and no teeth? That would narrow the pool a little. Otherwise that description fits pretty much anyone non-Muslim, and a big old chunk of Muslims.

I would love to be a fly on the wall when CAIR staff read this thread, particularly the parts where Muslim PP calls Western women gap-toothed sluts with STDs.

Chances that PP will forward this thread to CAIR: zero.

Muslima wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Looks to me like you are afraid to meet with a muslim.

I grew up among them, married one, gave birth to one and am carrying another, you ninny. There's nothing remotely scary about most of them.

Any muslim man that married a woman with such rank hatred of his religion is probably going to be asked by Allah WHY he married you and allowed you to be responsible for raising muslim children. I want front seats for that questioning. One has to ask if he is a true Muslim.

That question is moot. In Islam, the child of a Muslim man is Muslim.

It's not like he has a real choice about it, especially in certain Muslim countries, where, if he found that Muslim beliefs didn't really fit him and he'd really be another religion or none at all, he'd be guilt of apostasy and subject to capital punishment. So yes he is Muslim but he may not buy into very little of it.

Thus he may feel very little compunction about marrying an intelligent woman who has the wit to question a certain tenets of his titular Islam and laughs with him about Muslim women who call into religion radio shows to ask if she can undress in a room where she thinks a male jinn may be present.

I am not the PP who is married to the Muslim and mother of two Muslims (one in utero).

And news flash-- if a man does not accept major tenets of Islam, he's not Muslim.

You are being purposely obtuse again. Islamic law does not permit people born Muslims who don't practice and don't care--those you would considered to not be true Muslims--to change their civil status to nonMuslim. Islamic law says such Muslims are indeed Muslims and cannot change that without risking apostasy charges. You are stuck with it all your life, as are your children and their children, at least for all matters dealing with civil status.

I am quite sure you know this--you just choose to attack PP and her husband instead of addressing the fact that Islam really doesn't envision freedom of religion.

That's a lie.....

Anonymous wrote:The whole purity test thing is almost identical to what INS asked my grandmother. INS asked my Cambridge-educated grandmother whether she had ever run a house of prostitution. When she said "no," they let her into the US.

This had nothing to do with voting or other rights, which are granted, or not, via completely separate processes (in the US, the Constitution).

Sounds like the exact same "we don't want that kind" thing was going on in Arabia 1400 years ago, although for women not for men.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You just can't stop yourself from spinning threads to make it look like you were even remotely persuasive.

Anonymous wrote:[

Oh puhhhhhleassseeee. And for anybody who really wants a laugh, a summary of this thread and the genuine "challenges" Muslim posters faced:

...

Muslim: the sura Muslima quoted showed that Islam made women politically relevant
IslamHater: No, it was an admission for membership into the Prophets tribe.
Muslim: yes, and that an oath was administered for entry into his tribe makes her politically relevant because more oaths= more power
IslamHater: okay, but then its at least discriminatory because the same oath was not administered to men. <note the deflection again>
Muslim: ummm, yes it was. A group of men took the oath in the treaty under the tree, to become members of his tribe and pledge allegiance to the Prophet.
IslamHater: <silence>

And there you have it folks. These are not challenges. They are pitiful misunderstandings based on her google ability, TV shows about Indonesian children, radio shows airing uneducated listener comments who she likes to mock, and reliance on unreliable, literal English translations of the holy Quran.

Here's what you actually said, right in the middle of the debate on whether women had the vote 1400 years ago, on page 35 if anybody wants to go back and see for themselves:

10/10/2014 01:20

Anonymous wrote:[Muslima, I'm just an ignorant, barefoot, veiled Muslim gal. Can you explain to me what it means to be a very American woman? Does it mean she's wearing a baseball cap, her boyfriend's boxers, a nose ring, a few tattoos, and eating apple pie? ??

10/10/2014 01:07

Anonymous wrote:Post a pic of your last pap smear lab results showing your STD (HPV seems to be popular in western states) and maybe we Muslims will feel sorry for you too.

And then your "apology" took the form of faking regret for insulting all American women, instead of just insulting your nemesis (not me).

FWIW, I've been watching this thread, and I agree with the PP who says that you failed to prove that satisfying a demand to promise you will behave yourself is a form of "voting." It's more like when the INS used to turn away people with tuberculosis, because no host country wants to allow people to enter who will contaminate the home population, either physically (tuberculosis) or morally (the Muslim woman's pledge of good behavior).

Your error above is in the fourth line, where you claim your nemesis says "okay" to your claim that this makes women "politically relevant." No, she never said that. Nobody else ever said that, either. You're making that up.

Of course I apologized to you and all nonMuslim women. If you did not understand that, here's clarification- I am sorry for saying that. I lost my cool after seeing very unreasonable arguments and mocking of Islam. For ex, the most recent mockery was when you spoke of the radio station caller who asked an imam if its ok for her to undress when she thought jinn may be in the room. I have a Doctorate degree and worked in IT and law before retirement. If I heard the same caller, I would not have thought to mock her, but would realize she simply needs help in understanding the concept of intent in Islam. You chose to mock her. You like to point out your exceptional intelligence, but exceptionally intelligent people know less intelligent people should not be mocked. Their lack of intelligence may be due to genetic factors, culture, upbringing, and why on earth would anyone hold them accountable for that which they can not control? It's a mean girl tactic and shows your character. Another example is how differently you and I handle curiosity about different faiths. I read the Bible and then sought two knowledgeable priests to better understand Christianity. You, on the other hand, refuse to seek a scholar or learn Quranic Arabic to clarify your own misunderstanding about Islam. Instead, you spout off on DCUM falsities offending the religion of 1.6 billion people. Again, it shows Jeff and Muslima were correct about you all along, you had an agenda.

So I do apologize for my comment about nonMuslim women. I do. But if your motivation is to understand real Islam, you would engage in the serious study of it the right way.

Muslima wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Looks to me like you are afraid to meet with a muslim.

I grew up among them, married one, gave birth to one and am carrying another, you ninny. There's nothing remotely scary about most of them.

Any muslim man that married a woman with such rank hatred of his religion is probably going to be asked by Allah WHY he married you and allowed you to be responsible for raising muslim children. I want front seats for that questioning. One has to ask if he is a true Muslim.

That question is moot. In Islam, the child of a Muslim man is Muslim.

It's not like he has a real choice about it, especially in certain Muslim countries, where, if he found that Muslim beliefs didn't really fit him and he'd really be another religion or none at all, he'd be guilt of apostasy and subject to capital punishment. So yes he is Muslim but he may not buy into very little of it.

Thus he may feel very little compunction about marrying an intelligent woman who has the wit to question a certain tenets of his titular Islam and laughs with him about Muslim women who call into religion radio shows to ask if she can undress in a room where she thinks a male jinn may be present.

I am not the PP who is married to the Muslim and mother of two Muslims (one in utero).

And news flash-- if a man does not accept major tenets of Islam, he's not Muslim.

You are being purposely obtuse again. Islamic law does not permit people born Muslims who don't practice and don't care--those you would considered to not be true Muslims--to change their civil status to nonMuslim. Islamic law says such Muslims are indeed Muslims and cannot change that without risking apostasy charges. You are stuck with it all your life, as are your children and their children, at least for all matters dealing with civil status.

I am quite sure you know this--you just choose to attack PP and her husband instead of addressing the fact that Islam really doesn't envision freedom of religion.

That's a lie.....

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You just can't stop yourself from spinning threads to make it look like you were even remotely persuasive.

Anonymous wrote:[

Oh puhhhhhleassseeee. And for anybody who really wants a laugh, a summary of this thread and the genuine "challenges" Muslim posters faced:

...

Muslim: the sura Muslima quoted showed that Islam made women politically relevant
IslamHater: No, it was an admission for membership into the Prophets tribe.
Muslim: yes, and that an oath was administered for entry into his tribe makes her politically relevant because more oaths= more power
IslamHater: okay, but then its at least discriminatory because the same oath was not administered to men. <note the deflection again>
Muslim: ummm, yes it was. A group of men took the oath in the treaty under the tree, to become members of his tribe and pledge allegiance to the Prophet.
IslamHater: <silence>

And there you have it folks. These are not challenges. They are pitiful misunderstandings based on her google ability, TV shows about Indonesian children, radio shows airing uneducated listener comments who she likes to mock, and reliance on unreliable, literal English translations of the holy Quran.

Here's what you actually said, right in the middle of the debate on whether women had the vote 1400 years ago, on page 35 if anybody wants to go back and see for themselves:

10/10/2014 01:20

Anonymous wrote:[Muslima, I'm just an ignorant, barefoot, veiled Muslim gal. Can you explain to me what it means to be a very American woman? Does it mean she's wearing a baseball cap, her boyfriend's boxers, a nose ring, a few tattoos, and eating apple pie? ??

10/10/2014 01:07

Anonymous wrote:Post a pic of your last pap smear lab results showing your STD (HPV seems to be popular in western states) and maybe we Muslims will feel sorry for you too.

And then your "apology" took the form of faking regret for insulting all American women, instead of just insulting your nemesis (not me).

FWIW, I've been watching this thread, and I agree with the PP who says that you failed to prove that satisfying a demand to promise you will behave yourself is a form of "voting." It's more like when the INS used to turn away people with tuberculosis, because no host country wants to allow people to enter who will contaminate the home population, either physically (tuberculosis) or morally (the Muslim woman's pledge of good behavior).

Your error above is in the fourth line, where you claim your nemesis says "okay" to your claim that this makes women "politically relevant." No, she never said that. Nobody else ever said that, either. You're making that up.

Of course I apologized to you and all nonMuslim women. If you did not understand that, here's clarification- I am sorry for saying that. I lost my cool after seeing very unreasonable arguments and mocking of Islam. For ex, the most recent mockery was when you spoke of the radio station caller who asked an imam if its ok for her to undress when she thought jinn may be in the room. I have a Doctorate degree and worked in IT and law before retirement. If I heard the same caller, I would not have thought to mock her, but would realize she simply needs help in understanding the concept of intent in Islam. You chose to mock her. You like to point out your exceptional intelligence, but exceptionally intelligent people know less intelligent people should not be mocked. Their lack of intelligence may be due to genetic factors, culture, upbringing, and why on earth would anyone hold them accountable for that which they can not control? It's a mean girl tactic and shows your character. Another example is how differently you and I handle curiosity about different faiths. I read the Bible and then sought two knowledgeable priests to better understand Christianity. You, on the other hand, refuse to seek a scholar or learn Quranic Arabic to clarify your own misunderstanding about Islam. Instead, you spout off on DCUM falsities offending the religion of 1.6 billion people. Again, it shows Jeff and Muslima were correct about you all along, you had an agenda.

So I do apologize for my comment about nonMuslim women. I do. But if your motivation is to understand real Islam, you would engage in the serious study of it the right way.

We were not mocking the woman with the jinn in her house, but the Islamic "scholar" who told her she could not undress in front of the jinn. I also mocked the Saudi cleric who issued a fatwa saying it was permissible for a man to have sex with his wife up to six hours after her death. Mocking probably isn't the right attitude here but rather sadness that these kinds of midget-minded "scholars" have overrun today's Islam, which has produced such theological giants in the past.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You just can't stop yourself from spinning threads to make it look like you were even remotely persuasive.

Anonymous wrote:[

Oh puhhhhhleassseeee. And for anybody who really wants a laugh, a summary of this thread and the genuine "challenges" Muslim posters faced:

...

Muslim: the sura Muslima quoted showed that Islam made women politically relevant
IslamHater: No, it was an admission for membership into the Prophets tribe.
Muslim: yes, and that an oath was administered for entry into his tribe makes her politically relevant because more oaths= more power
IslamHater: okay, but then its at least discriminatory because the same oath was not administered to men. <note the deflection again>
Muslim: ummm, yes it was. A group of men took the oath in the treaty under the tree, to become members of his tribe and pledge allegiance to the Prophet.
IslamHater: <silence>

And there you have it folks. These are not challenges. They are pitiful misunderstandings based on her google ability, TV shows about Indonesian children, radio shows airing uneducated listener comments who she likes to mock, and reliance on unreliable, literal English translations of the holy Quran.

Here's what you actually said, right in the middle of the debate on whether women had the vote 1400 years ago, on page 35 if anybody wants to go back and see for themselves:

10/10/2014 01:20

Anonymous wrote:[Muslima, I'm just an ignorant, barefoot, veiled Muslim gal. Can you explain to me what it means to be a very American woman? Does it mean she's wearing a baseball cap, her boyfriend's boxers, a nose ring, a few tattoos, and eating apple pie? ??

10/10/2014 01:07

Anonymous wrote:Post a pic of your last pap smear lab results showing your STD (HPV seems to be popular in western states) and maybe we Muslims will feel sorry for you too.

And then your "apology" took the form of faking regret for insulting all American women, instead of just insulting your nemesis (not me).

FWIW, I've been watching this thread, and I agree with the PP who says that you failed to prove that satisfying a demand to promise you will behave yourself is a form of "voting." It's more like when the INS used to turn away people with tuberculosis, because no host country wants to allow people to enter who will contaminate the home population, either physically (tuberculosis) or morally (the Muslim woman's pledge of good behavior).

Your error above is in the fourth line, where you claim your nemesis says "okay" to your claim that this makes women "politically relevant." No, she never said that. Nobody else ever said that, either. You're making that up.

Of course I apologized to you and all nonMuslim women. If you did not understand that, here's clarification- I am sorry for saying that. I lost my cool after seeing very unreasonable arguments and mocking of Islam. For ex, the most recent mockery was when you spoke of the radio station caller who asked an imam if its ok for her to undress when she thought jinn may be in the room. I have a Doctorate degree and worked in IT and law before retirement. If I heard the same caller, I would not have thought to mock her, but would realize she simply needs help in understanding the concept of intent in Islam. You chose to mock her. You like to point out your exceptional intelligence, but exceptionally intelligent people know less intelligent people should not be mocked. Their lack of intelligence may be due to genetic factors, culture, upbringing, and why on earth would anyone hold them accountable for that which they can not control? It's a mean girl tactic and shows your character. Another example is how differently you and I handle curiosity about different faiths. I read the Bible and then sought two knowledgeable priests to better understand Christianity. You, on the other hand, refuse to seek a scholar or learn Quranic Arabic to clarify your own misunderstanding about Islam. Instead, you spout off on DCUM falsities offending the religion of 1.6 billion people. Again, it shows Jeff and Muslima were correct about you all along, you had an agenda.

So I do apologize for my comment about nonMuslim women. I do. But if your motivation is to understand real Islam, you would engage in the serious study of it the right way.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The whole purity test thing is almost identical to what INS asked my grandmother. INS asked my Cambridge-educated grandmother whether she had ever run a house of prostitution. When she said "no," they let her into the US.

This had nothing to do with voting or other rights, which are granted, or not, via completely separate processes (in the US, the Constitution).

Sounds like the exact same "we don't want that kind" thing was going on in Arabia 1400 years ago, although for women not for men.

Again?? Are you kidding me?? Read Sura Ash Shurra on collective decision making then. Oh, but wait. Thats right, I forgot you can't read the Quran. And you don't know Quranic Arabic either. Maybe you shouldn't be the person interpreting the Quran then. Just a thought.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The whole purity test thing is almost identical to what INS asked my grandmother. INS asked my Cambridge-educated grandmother whether she had ever run a house of prostitution. When she said "no," they let her into the US.

This had nothing to do with voting or other rights, which are granted, or not, via completely separate processes (in the US, the Constitution).

Sounds like the exact same "we don't want that kind" thing was going on in Arabia 1400 years ago, although for women not for men.

Again?? Are you kidding me?? Read Sura Ash Shurra on collective decision making then. Oh, but wait. Thats right, I forgot you can't read the Quran. And you don't know Quranic Arabic either. Maybe you shouldn't be the person interpreting the Quran then. Just a thought.

Who do you think you're talking to? I'm not the poster you've been fighting with.

Anonymous wrote:
A Muslim who converts is said to have committed apostasy. This is ok if you are in the West where no one cares what your personal faith is, but in a number of Arab countries you risk death under Islamic law. And in others, the conversion simply isn't recognized; your civil status remains Muslim. And further under Islamic law the child of a Muslim man--however nominal his religion may be--is automatically a Muslim. A woman marrying a nonMuslim--which means her children would not be Muslim as her children are not automatically Muslim under Islam--also risks death.

This is not so unlike Judaism where the child of a Jewish woman is automatically Jewish. Just that as far as I know death isn't called for if she commits apostasy by converting to another religion or if a Jewish man marries a nonJew.