Travel Soccer teams around NOVA let's discuss

Anonymous
asksoccernova wrote:So, if the 3rd world country player development model doesn't fit here, and the European academy model (and with pro teams in little tiny towns that can always fight for promotion up to the 7th division all the way to the top one) doesn't fit here, what is the answer?

The only answer other than "we need more time" is what US Soccer, of all people, has been advocating for a while, which is ECONOMICAL TRAINING SESSIONS.

Weekly schedule in-season:

Rec - 1 or 2 practices a week (usually 1 hour each) 1 - 2 hours training + game
Travel - 2 or 3 practices a week (usually 90 minutes each) - 1.5 - 3 hours training + game
"Elite" if there is such a thing - 3 or 4 practices a week - 3 - 4.5 hours training + game

Regardless of how you slice it, even 4.5 hours of soccer per week is not enough to really develop a player to their fullest potential. Go to any real soccer country and say that an elite 14 year old kid gets 4.5 hours of soccer per week (excluding games) and prepare to be laughed at. I'm sure that Michael Jordan limited himself to 4.5 hours of organized basketball training per week as a high school kid... How many hours do highly competitive 10 year old gymnasts that are 5 years out from the Olympics train per week?

Anyway, enough about that. Economical sessions are the absolute best way to learn a skill quickly. Street soccer / unstructured play is good for experimenting, learning new moves/skills here and there, and a lot of other "soccer intangibles", but I will tell you, nothing accelerates a player's skill level more than a well-run, economical training session. A player that cannot strike the ball with correct technique will not learn how to do it correctly just by playing street soccer. Maybe another player who can do it right takes the time to show the kid how its done correctly, but its just "do it this way", not a structured motor learning correction process that every coach should know how to do at a basic level.


An economical training session should be (for a technical / skill topic):

warm-up that is related to the topic being taught
-30 minutes of learning a skill without pressure
-30 minutes of using the skill with some pressure with smaller numbers
-30 minutes of using the skill in real game situations

Or, in a rec practice, it would be 20/20/20.

To run a good training session, the burden is on the coach to know how to structure it and teach the topic. USSF has excellent coaching education programs despite all the other things people dislike about the organization, and I learned this concept when I took my D License a while ago. Most of the original USSF (and NSCAA) coaching courses were based on coaching courses in Germany, England, and the Netherlands... but the people putting the USSF coaching courses together realized that we don't have as much time to work with players per week, so while there was good material in the courses, it didn't translate to the American player who didn't even have a feel for the ball yet as a teenager compared to their counterparts in other countries.


I think the idea of economical training sessions originally came from Germany, where at some point, most run-of-the-mill soccer clubs in the country realized it wasn't possible to get the kids 4-5 days per week (except maybe the top top clubs that they had to compete against). So the solution was to implement economical training sessions where the entire practice places demands on the player in all areas of the game: physical, mental, technical, and tactical. You get 90 minutes to train all 4 areas, so its up to the coach to design the session appropriately. There are a lot of variables that can be manipulated in a session (field space / dimensions, time, numbers, amount of pressure, number of touches, restrictions, time limits, incentives... the main things though that slide the difficulty scale up or down are the amount of space and the amount of time that players have to execute a skill or make a decision)

"South American" and "Latin" (Spanish/Italian) training sessions are not economical at all actually... but they don't need to be because its assumed that the players are around the ball so much that they have already developed the technical (skill) part of the game on their own. That's why they are on the team to begin with.

Interestingly enough, training sessions in S.A./Latin countries are designed with the assumption that the players ALREADY have a very high skill level (you won't be on the team if you don't anyway). Therefore, the typical coach will more or less roll the ball out and give the players an objective, but not give them specifics on how they should achieve that objective exactly (or just make running commentary as they play). They let the players play creatively, with their own flair, and be their individual selves as long as they achieve the objective. A German or Dutch session will be extremely specific about how an objective is to be achieved, and even if the objective is still achieved (but in the wrong manner), it's "wrong". Some clubs in these countries break the mold of their own country's soccer culture, and those teams are the interesting ones to watch - Barcelona playing with Dutch influence, Arsenal playing with French influence, DC United in the days of Harkes/Pope/Agoos/Lassiter/Olsen playing with Marco Etcheverry & Jaime Moreno, both players who emerged as among the best from Bolivia's 3rd world country development model (from Tahuichi, which put structure around the 3rd world dev model with huge success) as the engines of the team, etc.

So for right now, I think the solution is educating more coaches and making sure they "get it" when it comes to session planning. Enough faulting the kids for not being from a crazy-about-soccer family where the dad played and enough faulting them for not playing Joga Bonito 24/7 on concrete with soda cans.

Want better test scores in math? Make sure the teachers are good at teaching it and getting the kids to solidly understand it given limited classroom time.

Giving a kid that doesn't speak english a dictionary to memorize does not help. That's the equivalent of what I feel happens when a coach watches Barcelona play, then looks up a random "Rondo" drill from Spain, and runs it with his team. Just stop it.

Raise the bar. Hold coaches accountable for the quality of their training sessions. As a parent, take the time to learn and understand the difference between an excellent session, a good one, an average one, a poor one, and a terrible one.

Try this out:

If your kid is in a larger club, observe a session from a U10 rec coach, a U10 "development academy" session (for more competitive house players looking for more training), a U10 travel coach working with the top team in the age group, and the U10 travel coach working with the bottom team in the age group. Look for the differences in quality in each session. You'll find it interesting.


Agree. Very good. EXCEPT "dad played". As a mom that played with a USWNT and married to a man that never played the game--I still see coaches on the boys side treat all mothers like a bunch of dumb soccer moms serving only for secretarial/managerial duties and snacks. Truth is some of us are more knowledgeable than the dad you assume is a soccer wunderkind because he has a foreign acccent.
asksoccernova
Member Offline
I cant tell you how happy I am to hear that... "mom played" instead of "dad played". This is a huge turning of the corner for the womens/girls game and something you rarely, rarely would have heard 10-15 years ago.

Thank you for the "mom played" post.. I am mostly focused on coaching girls teams right now and this comment just made my day
Anonymous
asksoccernova wrote:I cant tell you how happy I am to hear that... "mom played" instead of "dad played". This is a huge turning of the corner for the womens/girls game and something you rarely, rarely would have heard 10-15 years ago.

Thank you for the "mom played" post.. I am mostly focused on coaching girls teams right now and this comment just made my day


I was here when WAGs started. This area was a hot bed of women's soccer in the 80s.

Now former teammates are mothers to players as well. I run into many of them at tournaments/games. There are many of us--college players, national championship players on the sidelines all around the DMV.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
asksoccernova wrote:I cant tell you how happy I am to hear that... "mom played" instead of "dad played". This is a huge turning of the corner for the womens/girls game and something you rarely, rarely would have heard 10-15 years ago.

Thank you for the "mom played" post.. I am mostly focused on coaching girls teams right now and this comment just made my day


I was here when WAGs started. This area was a hot bed of women's soccer in the 80s.

Now former teammates are mothers to players as well. I run into many of them at tournaments/games. There are many of us--college players, national championship players on the sidelines all around the DMV.


I can appreciate anyone who has played regardless of gender. What I do say is, come forward and provide a helping hand. Many do but not enough. I would rather see a mom that has played the game help, then a dad that has never kicked a ball. Unfortunately I have seen this many times. What can be done so that women do step and feel comfortable coaching or assisting? I've sometimes heard that women don't want to coach boys. Why not? Men coach girls so why can't it be the other way around.
Anonymous
You can have great coaches and sessions, but I think what is lacking is kids working hard at home. Technique needs to be taught at practice such as shooting, passing, receiving, dribbling, etc etc but it needs to be practiced at home. Footskills need to be practiced at home at least every other day. Kids aren't able to trap a ball well after 2 or 3 sessions with coach. Kids need to practice...AT HOME! So many parents use soccer as baby sitting. The club I'm at has basically a kiss and ride at the field for U9/u10s/U11s. Parents don't even stay to see what's going on and leaves their 8 year old or whatever for up to 2 hours. They don't see what they are doing, if they are clowning around, etc. When I hear someone say that we don't have the culture in this country, what it makes me think of is that we don't have enough parents who love it and encourage working at home and being involved in a positive manner. We get nannies dropping junior off who tackles 5 kids during practice and the soccer mom/dad saying, "I love to watch you play." I'm not saying we need to scream from the sidelines but get involved. Play with them. Juggle with them. Play a little 1v1 with them. Ask them to show you some tricks. Ask them to show you what they are working on at practice. Let the kids dribble around the house with a size 1. Watch a game with them at home and have them explain what offsides is. Get off your phones. Pay attention.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
asksoccernova wrote:How many full-time professional youth academies that support U9-U19 does our country have (where school is secondary to soccer, not the other way around)?

How many soccer-only boarding schools where the club pays? The number of players doesn't matter without the infrastructure.

Compare that to the amount of youth and professional baseball infrastructure we have in the US... and how many fathers can teach their kids how to play baseball vs. how many can really teach their kids soccer...

There are a lot of kids playing youth basketball in china, but are they ever going to catch up to us? No. Why? Because its in the DNA of several generations already, passed down from grandfather to father to son on the driveway, the park, or the streets, not learned at a weekly skills clinic. Kids playing basketball non-stop form dawn till dusk nearly every day they can.


The most naturally talented players actually come from Africa - heck, most kids aren't even in school and they play soccer all day long with and against teenagers or grown men (with EXTREME substandard equipment). Like the soccer they play would be an instant lawsuit here in the US (no shoes, no shin guards, using a clump of rags stitched together to make something round that resembles a soccer ball, dangerous field conditions, boys playing against men, no risk management forms, no player cards, way too many players on one field if you could even call it that, NOTHING).

The harsher the playing environment/conditions, the more raw talent is produced. Pele, anyone? Didn't own soccer shoes, played barefoot, never had an actual coach until he was discovered (at 13? could be wrong), and had a soccer ball-like object that he would dribble everywhere he went..


The problem is that there are few people (relative to the tens of millions of kids playing soccer in Africa) who can coach them in decision-making and team / group play. For them, its soccer or nothing, so those that actually have a shot at making it to a higher level are playing as if their lives are on the line - because it is for many of them... a life of being an unskilled worker in Africa or getting the glory. Starting at age 11-12 when they are old enough to become aware of it. The very best among these millions of kids are plucked out every year and put into European youth academies... some of them make it, some don't.

Good luck to the typical American kid competing against others that literally have no alternative in life except to become a professional soccer player or have a life of manual labor...

Why are Cuban baseball players so good? same reason. No other way out. Many (not all of course) basketball and football players are as good as they are for the same reason - no alternative. Suburban soccer kids simply do not have the same survival-driven instinct even if they are "good / talented" players.

Yes, there are european kids that will have education alternatives if they don't make it, but again, these kids are getting spoon-fed soccer 7 days a week from the time they can barely walk at 2... by the time they are 7, they have been kicking a ball around for 5 years already in some form or another.... and we are starting with mini kickers classes once a week for 8 week sessions in the spring and fall. God forbid that we let an 8 year old play soccer more than 6 hours of organized soccer per week (2-3 practices + 1 game on the weekend)!!


BOOM!


Thank you, travel club directors. Wow? You ignored all the legitimate facts presented over the last 2 pages and provided...more excuse. It's shameful, really. The top kids' sport in America with 24.5 million American kids playing and a kid that was largely trained by his own Father and abroad is what we have produced in the last 40 years. The US Soccer Federation can't even truly claim credit for him.



It isn't a DOC's fault if American kids are not playing soccer "in the street". Nor is it their fault that EPL has only been on cable TV for nearly 4 years now. It isn't a DOC's fault that soccer is not taught in the backyard by a generation of knowledgeable mom's and dad's like baseball.

Clubs don't make great players, passion, talent, culture and family do. If you have ever yelled in a game "send her/him!" then congratulations, you are part of the problem.


Great posts recently, very big picture that I agree with, but then I go back and read ones like this and think of my situation. Or many friends situations.

Due to traffic, etc., we are at the best club we can find within reason, have the kids playing on very good teams (if you are evaluating based on results), but realize that our only option in this system is to wait for the system to continue to improve at the big picture level, and continue what we've been doing on the side, and with friends, if we really want something better.

We watch the men play at these local pick-up fields, and how I'd love it if my kids could speak Spanish and were old enough to participate.
I guess our only option is to accept the system, know that it is flawed, work to improve at the margins, and continue to seek out families who like to play soccer and build experiences around it outside of practice.

But I am still put off by how much money we have to pay within the current system for what we get, too many teams training on one field, the tournamentitas (6 tournaments for a U9 team is NOT necessary!), etc. . . . but I don't see any other way to have good competition avenues with your school and community peers.

My kids want to be on these teams with friends, but even they see now that the style of soccer being reinforced by the relative age effect and the "send her/him" crowds, is not the style of soccer we preach for our family's youngers.

The sad thing is when I see the system start to work against my DC and I see them trading attempts at the beautiful game, even in the wing channels, for the more predictable big crosses of teammates. Makes me sad.

Also, makes it hard to parent your child if system, club, coach, teammates, parent, and player are all on different pages about, for example, what sort of risks a younger should take when they receive the ball in the middle third. Sure we can let the game teach them, but they are being influenced in all sorts of directions, and many times these messages are allinconsistent. And no parent wants to tell their kid to ignore a certain aspect of the system or coach.

We pay a lot of money for soccer. I wish I had some outlet that I could get behind. But I don't. For now, guess will just continue with our family's approach to date.

I know several families who feel the same as us, but the VAST majority have no clue, and just drop their kids off and think everything is great because their kid is on the top team and scores lots of goals.

ANYWAY, great posts, thanks to all.


Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:You can have great coaches and sessions, but I think what is lacking is kids working hard at home. Technique needs to be taught at practice such as shooting, passing, receiving, dribbling, etc etc but it needs to be practiced at home. Footskills need to be practiced at home at least every other day. Kids aren't able to trap a ball well after 2 or 3 sessions with coach. Kids need to practice...AT HOME! So many parents use soccer as baby sitting. The club I'm at has basically a kiss and ride at the field for U9/u10s/U11s. Parents don't even stay to see what's going on and leaves their 8 year old or whatever for up to 2 hours. They don't see what they are doing, if they are clowning around, etc. When I hear someone say that we don't have the culture in this country, what it makes me think of is that we don't have enough parents who love it and encourage working at home and being involved in a positive manner. We get nannies dropping junior off who tackles 5 kids during practice and the soccer mom/dad saying, "I love to watch you play." I'm not saying we need to scream from the sidelines but get involved. Play with them. Juggle with them. Play a little 1v1 with them. Ask them to show you some tricks. Ask them to show you what they are working on at practice. Let the kids dribble around the house with a size 1. Watch a game with them at home and have them explain what offsides is. Get off your phones. Pay attention.


+100

I could have wrote this post myself. Wow.
Anonymous
^^
These posts tell me that we are approaching the corner. I fully expect my grandkids to have a completely different experience. Even the technical difference between my oldest kids cohort and my youngest, separated by 4 years, is eye opening.

But then I learned and sought out those pockets where the appreciation of technical play was evident. I also focused far more energy into working on the technical aspects of development.

As long as I have my kids in the right environment they will grow to love the sport as well as players and will carry that passion, knowledge and experience forward.
asksoccernova
Member Offline
I help organize pickup soccer on fridays 5:30-7:00 at Draper Drive Park in fairfax, for boys and girls. Anyone who reads this is invited to come out tonight.

Most of the kids are U12 and younger but kids slightly older than that are certainly welcome to play also. All ability levels welcome.
Anonymous
I think we get too hung up on "I love to watch you play." The idea is that too many parents get their kids in the car and launch into a dissection of what just happened, often from a place of pure ignorance.

You can say "I love to watch you play" after a game and then come back during the week and say, "Hey, want to work on that left foot?"
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:I think we get too hung up on "I love to watch you play." The idea is that too many parents get their kids in the car and launch into a dissection of what just happened, often from a place of pure ignorance.

You can say "I love to watch you play" after a game and then come back during the week and say, "Hey, want to work on that left foot?"


I used "I love to watch you play" in my post to mean that some parents have no idea what to say other than that! They don't even care or know that their kid can't/won't use his/her weak foot (as an example to match yours). I honestly, don't care if people say that to their kids because I actually do love to watch my kids play, but I also am able to discuss strengths and weaknesses with them because I actually DO watch them play.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Loudoun and FCV won't last 2 years together. Too much ego.

Who coaches
Who pays coaches
Where do they play
Watch the fallout if one team has more loudoun than Fcv or the other way around.

Have fun


Has a merger or partnership even been announced? I really don't think this is happening.


Has Loudoun, Arlington or BRYC announced a DA girls tryout date? Ask yourself....why not?..they are affiliated with Spirit right? ....lol....truth is everyone affiliated with spirit is pulling out...to include the guy who was supposed to run the Academy....so now Loudoun is scrambling...they are in talks to work out a deal with FCV.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Loudoun and FCV won't last 2 years together. Too much ego.

Who coaches
Who pays coaches
Where do they play
Watch the fallout if one team has more loudoun than Fcv or the other way around.

Have fun


Has a merger or partnership even been announced? I really don't think this is happening.


Has Loudoun, Arlington or BRYC announced a DA girls tryout date? Ask yourself....why not?..they are affiliated with Spirit right? ....lol....truth is everyone affiliated with spirit is pulling out...to include the guy who was supposed to run the Academy....so now Loudoun is scrambling...they are in talks to work out a deal with FCV.


What does Loudoun have that FCV wants?
Anonymous
I have two boys so I don't pay attention to this girl stuff very much but I've been following these posts and I have no f-ing clue what is going on!!! I can't understand any of it. Head hurts. I'm glad I don't have a girl. : )
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Loudoun and FCV won't last 2 years together. Too much ego.

Who coaches
Who pays coaches
Where do they play
Watch the fallout if one team has more loudoun than Fcv or the other way around.

Have fun


Has a merger or partnership even been announced? I really don't think this is happening.


Has Loudoun, Arlington or BRYC announced a DA girls tryout date? Ask yourself....why not?..they are affiliated with Spirit right? ....lol....truth is everyone affiliated with spirit is pulling out...to include the guy who was supposed to run the Academy....so now Loudoun is scrambling...they are in talks to work out a deal with FCV.


What does Loudoun have that FCV wants?


Fields and thousands of players
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