Anonymous wrote:Mr Huber --

Thanks for chiming in because this is a question that my husband and I are debating now.

My question is this: why is it better to avoid a transition at 5th or 6th grade instead of 8th/9th? Isn't age 13 (the onset of adolescence) a more awkward time to be a new kid at, say, Landon or St. Albans. (Yes, I know that some kids enter that year -- but there are more who have been there since 4th grade).

I ask this because I have a friend who did just that (enter St Albans in 9th grade) and he really hated that first year or two. He said that the other boys made his life hell and basically hazed him. He says that he wishes that he had entered at 4th or not at all.

What do you think?

I cannot speak for either school, obviously, but what I have seen in 8th graders is a readiness to spread their wings and establish themselves in new communities as they approach secondary school. I'd rather that this happen for the child at the end of 8th grade than the end of 5th grade. Also, as we talk with families about secondary school placement, there are inherent pressures about choice and acceptance that I'd rather avoid putting on the shoulders of a 5th grader in the early days of adolescence.

Of course, the counter argument toavoiding transitions would be enrollment in a K-12, but my experiences with middle-as-leaders, rather than middle-as-middle, sway my opinion to PS-8.

I hope this helps you with your decision, and I wish you all the best.

Anonymous wrote:if it's a low bar, why don't private schools require it of their teachers?

There's an excellent article in the Fall 2008 issue of Independent School Magazine written by Pat Bassett that discusses the Finnish model of education. The article is available at http://www.nais.org. In short, it cites Finland's successful educational system, and notes the following:

Reasons that aren't a factor in Finland's success:
* high pay for teachers
* more years of schooling
* small class size
* longer school day
* national centralized control
* teacher accreditation (there is none in Finland, apparently)
* high-stakes testing

Instead, he posits three factors in a successful school:
* get the best teachers
* get the best out of teachers
* step in when students start to lag behind

I encourage you to read the article to get a better sense than this bullet summary of Pat's argument.

I have a certain amount of bias here, but even if I weren't in my current position, I would strongly advocate that parents consider the PS-8 model for their children. For the younger students, there are the benefits of older buddies, larger facilities, and in-house specialization of middle school subject teachers working in collaboration with lower school teachers. For the older students, there's the true ability to be leaders within the community, and less of a rush to adulthood (or at least not quite as quickly as society and popular culture would like). It also avoids a school transition at the 5th / 6th grade year.

Each year I have the talk with our 8th graders at the beginning of the year to remind them of the awesome responsibility they have, as leaders of the school community, and that their actions will help to shape what younger students think is "grown up". It's perhaps one of the most important student talks that I have.

One measure for prospective parents to consider - at middle school recess, do the students run around and play? My expectation is that at PS-8 schools, it's more likely. I have not a shred of data to support this, but I believe that at PS-8 schools, there is less pressure to be cool (i.e. like high school students) and abandon normal childhood activities.

Schools are certainly taking a much closer look at health and safety issues, and it's certainly a valid question for prospective and current parents - "how does your school create a safe environment for my child?" My school installed a door security system a few years ago, after some discussion and debate. It seemed a bit out of place to some, given our quiet, pastoral setting - but it has given us a means of protection that wasn't previously available, as well as some peace of mind. It's about preparedness and risk assessment, rather than acting (or living!) in fear.

Many thanks to the above respondents. Additional comments or thoughts are welcome.

Hello to all -

I have had the unique pleasure of being in a school with uniforms (my former school in PA) and one without. I'd like to hear from uniform-adverse parents whose schools have uniform requirements for their children.

1. If you were against them at the onset (enough to question enrollment or possibly cause you to leave if the school added them) AND you learned to like / tolerate them, what changed your mind?

2. If you were against them at the onset, and your child's school made the transition AND you never learned to like / tolerate them, did you leave?

3. If you were against them at the onset, did it influence NOT applying to a school?

And, to any parent of my own school who is trying to read the tea leaves of this forum to look into the future - put down the Lands End catalog, nothing's going on right now.

This topic of quantifiable data vs. quality has been brought up on other threads before, I believe, and it strikes at the core concern that a number of (potential) independent school parents have. My school differs in ways both great and small from our surrounding schools, but it would be a mighty challenge (as well as against AISGW/NAIS guidelines) to put up a simplistic numerical comparative rank. We see the differences as our teachers and parents engage in curricular review, as it affords us the opportunity to take one particular subject area and see how we compare to other independent / parochial / public schools. To add to the complexity, of course, is that parents are investing in a process, rather than a product. To be sure, some parents may seek a specific outcome - admission into their chosen college / university of choice, for example - but there are certainly no guarantees for even the most respected independent schools.

Take something as basic as test scores. If it's a school's mission to advertise its students' high test scores, that can be achieved through broad measures such as stringent admissions standards / curricular emphasis only on test subjects / significant test preparation. But a more interesting measure might be to see how students improve on their standardized tests. In other words, if a child consistently ranks at the 95th percentile, that's one thing, but if over time another child's percentile increases from 25th to 75th, that's something quite different and much more interesting.

I hope that all are off to a wonderful start to their school years.

John

I'd certainly advise you to tour again, if only to see your child's (potential) new teachers for the following year. Also, it would be worth asking what has changed over the past year, and what new programs / changes are planned for the upcoming year.

Anonymous wrote:I would like to see real certified teachers. I have noticed that many private schools fill their staff with parents that hang around and have an interest in teaching with no real training. They start as aids, then the next thing you know, they have a whole kindergarten class!

Mr. Huber, the scrutiny of private schools is only going to ramp up as the economy worsens and bad press about private schools continue. Therefore, you all will have to differentiate yourselves. We are reading a lot, so the run of the mill "low student teacher ratio" won't cut it, we want to know about class size, and so on.
Good luck this year.

After graduating with a specialized degree from an Ivy league institution, I began my teaching career in an independent school without having state certification or an education degree. Later I gained state certification, thinking I would move to public schools. While some of my education courses were helpful and thought-provoking, the majority were not - lessons on test-making, bulletin-board presentation, etc.

As with the 17:32 poster, there are outstanding educators I have seen who have come to teaching in non-traditional routes, and great independent schools can take advantage of the opportunities these educators offer. Teacher certification can represent achievement and attention to the craft of teaching - but it should not be confused as a guarantee of a quality teacher. My own experience in seeking state certification is that it was a low bar to clear at best.

Anonymous wrote:Can anyone enlighten me on how different the ERBs/SSATs in private school are from the DC CAS or SOL in public schools (as required by the No Child Left Behind law)? One argument I have heard from parents who put their kids in private schools is that they do not like required standardized testing and the consequential "teaching to the test" practices in public schools. Are there any educators out there who are familiar with both of these tests? Do teachers teach less to the ERB/SSATs? For parents with kids in both public and private schools, do you see major differences in how kids respond to these tests?

Thanks!

I cannot speak for public school test-taking, but my school's take is that standardized tests are a tool for assessing both student comprehension and programmatic strengths & weaknesses. We administer the ERB CTP4, as do many other independent schools. No big test-taking hoopla (banners, peppermints, etc.) for the students when they take the tests, just recommendation for a good night's sleep. Our Director of Teaching & Learning then works directly with teachers to analyze students' results (for outgoing / incoming students), and works with the curricular review committee to analyze how we fare as a school.

If the primary goal of a school is for students to do well on a test, it changes the structure and nature of teaching, especially if there are financial strings attached (teacher pay, school funding, etc.). I await the pendulum of educational practice to swing away from standardized test-centered curriculum.

An aside - is it just me, or does anyone else do a double-take when they see the abbreviation SOL?

The Gazette just wrote an article on this topic, titled "Family sends one child to public school, one to private" (Aug. 28th issue, online as well). Link: http://www.gazette.net/stories/08272008/potonew93723_32477.shtml

I don't think it's strange at all. I have seen a number of families who intentionally choose to enroll their children in public and independent schools, seeking to match the needs of each child to the right school. If there's a challenge in doing so, it's logistical - vacation schedules, evening events, etc.

This is a wonderful post topic, many thanks to the original poster.

During our faculty in-service this past week, we had discussion of educational quality. It strikes at the heart of the issue of school culture and comparison - how can a prospective parent differentiate between independent schools and public schools? Is it about test scores, or how well one "ranks"? (something which NAIS and AISGW have publicly spoken against). How do we (administration, faculty) communicate our quality, our differences? Ultimately, it must be about how well the school achieves its mission - and sometimes, this does not equate to easily quantifiable numbers or scores.

Some ways that prospective parents look at comparing schools:
What are the programmatic specialties - different foreign languages? enriched science & nature program?
What are the composition differences - small class size? EC-8?
What are the cultural differences - socioeconomic diversity? "family" feeling?
And, of course, cost.

Personally, I want my child to have great teachers. This transcends all. As a head of school, I know it's what the majority of the budget goes toward, and it's the reason for tuition increases - to attract and retain superior faculty. And the key difference I see between independent and public is the authority that independent school teachers have to develop and expand curriculum to best suit the school's mission and the students' needs.

Again, a great post topic. I wish everyone a wonderful start to their school year!

I cannot think of a disadvantage to having both children apply in the same year, vs. waiting a year for the second child.

I was curious how quickly today's front page WaPo article would be mentioned in this forum...

As referenced a few posts back, the single largest budget line item is for faculty salaries. We wish to attract and retain the best possible teachers for our students and parents. This is the quality of experience which sets apart independent schools - small class size, individualized attention, and dedicated, empowered faculty bringing out the best in our children. In seeking to keep great teachers, we must contend not only with the regular rise in inflation that our teachers face, but also competition with public schools for teachers. Of course, there are much more profitable fields than education, and I have seen wonderful teachers depart for the for-profit world so that they may better support themselves. Therefore without tuition increases or other sources of funding, I fear that there would be significant changes (such as larger classes, less experienced faculty, etc.) that would cause parents to question their tuition dollars.

A question to the original poster, if you're comfortable answering it - how much are you currently paying (approximately) in tuition, such that a $500+ increase is the tipping point?

Here are a few that I've received from prospective parents during open houses that struck me as interesting and insightful:

* what commendations and recommendations did the school receive during its last reaccreditation visit?
* how does your school measure and evaluate its curriculum?
* what's the average teacher tenure? / how many teachers left last year?
* what are the Board and Head of School planning for the next 3-5 years? / is the strategic plan available?
* how many students did you exit last year?
* how much of the budget is devoted to professional development?
* how do you discipline students? (a delightfully open-ended question!)
* what safety measures are in place? / is the crisis plan available?