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DC area schools that have now been included on the website http://www.matriculationstats.org/day-schools-outside-of-nyc are:
Holton-Arms School
Landon School
Maret School
National Cathedral School
St. Alban's
St. Anselm's
Washington International School
Also, Episcopal High School is included on the boarding school page.
Georgetown Day School, Potomac School and Sidwell Friends did not make either any or adequate data available on their websites to be included.
Any other suggestions for schools to be included? Can anybody help with providing data for schools that I don't have it? I check in here occasionally or can be contacted via the website.
Holton-Arms School
Landon School
Maret School
National Cathedral School
St. Alban's
St. Anselm's
Washington International School
Also, Episcopal High School is included on the boarding school page.
Georgetown Day School, Potomac School and Sidwell Friends did not make either any or adequate data available on their websites to be included.
Any other suggestions for schools to be included? Can anybody help with providing data for schools that I don't have it? I check in here occasionally or can be contacted via the website.
Anonymous wrote:I have a friend in NY who has applied to a ton of schools for her son for K. Does anyone know if the schools have sent out their letters there yet? I don't want to call and ask if she has already heard b/c that would mean he didn't get in anywhere (her big worry).
Yes, it is.
Letters for high schools were generally sent on Wednesday, the 17th (with a few exceptions). I believe kindergarten letters were generally sent on Friday, the 19th. However, many parents of kindergarten applicants who attend "connected" nursery schools should already have a good sense of this weekend's news before actually receiving it.
Anonymous wrote:MatriculationStats, I really appreciate your efforts to compile these stats! Athough ... Gilman? I don't think this is an area school.
Fair enough. Not being from the DC area, I was unfairly lumping Baltimore into the general DC area.
SAM2 wrote:Anonymous wrote:It tends to be a hair-splitting exercise at that level of distinguishing all of the above schools that are excellent. There was a Worth Magazine article in 2003 where Potomac ranked higher than some of the others. Then, the Dec. 2007 WSJ article ranked Holton, TJ, Sidwell and NCS as the best schools in this area to get kids into the top colleges.
I think that trying to use any one of those college matriculation articles to differentiate among these schools is going to lead to lots of inaccuracy. Each of those articles focused only on the high schools that supplied a small handful of colleges, so there was a lot of luck involved. For example, if a hypothetical high school sent 40% of its class to Yale that year but none to Harvard, and the article only looked at Harvard, then the high school would still rank low. At one point, I tried to combine the results of all three articles to improve the reliability some, but I think even those results are not terribly reliable (although they're probably better than any one article can give). Here's what I got when I combined the results:
% of students attending colleges covered by the 2007, 2004, and 2003 articles
St. Albans 16.84%
NCS 16.34%
Sidwell 14.33%
GDS 11.31%
Thos Jefferson 10.08%
Holton 6.33%
Potomac 6.09%
Landon 5.01%
Maret 4.94%
Richard Montgomery 4.45%
Winston Churchill 4.30%
There's a website called matriculationstats.org that's attempting to apply an interesting methodical approach to developing numbers like these for a much broader group of top colleges. I don't think he's added too many DC schools yet, but he's got some.
All that said, I think PP's point about hair-splitting among excellent schools is dead-on accurate. In comparing excellent schools like these, I think OP's focus on other intangible aspects that you like is the right way to go.
Thanks for the plug, SAM2.
I was about to add St. Alban's, anyway, but since I noticed this thread, I also added Holton-Arms today. http://matriculationstats.org
One small caveat, though. St. Alban's doesn't release complete information to the public. They do release several different takes on their matriculation results (these schools enrolled 10 or more graduates over the past 5 years (with specific numbers), 5 or more graduates over past 5 years, 2 or more graduates over the past 5 years). Based on that information, I was able to estimate (reasonably closely, I believe), the statistical results that I present in my tables. I have calculated such inferential statistics for several other schools included in the tables on the website (and disclose this fact on the home page, as well).
Other DC area schools currently included are: Gilman, NCS, and Maret. More will be included soon.
National Cathedral School has now been added. Landon had already been included. More DC area schools are on the way. http://matriculationstats.org/day-schools-outside-of-nyc
The website http://www.matriculationstats.org now contains some day schools located outside NYC. One DC area school is included and more will be as the page steadily expands (I have typically been updating the boarding schools page with one or two schools a day).
Anonymous wrote:I attended an info session for Andover last evening by invitation in Bethesda and it was pretty interesting. You cant deny that, at least, Phillips Andover is a great school. The boarding aspect is probably what gives most people pause. Im sure if Andover was in the middle of Chevy Chase it would be a feeding frenzy to get in. On top of it all, I found this link on DCUM that was conducted by the WSJ. It seems Andover is the top boarding school for college admissions and, furthermore, is head and shoulders above the best independent school in this area--which is Holton. Since I have a boy, Holton is not even an option. Sidwell is the next best thing and it does not seem to match up with Andover at all in terms of statistics. Very disappointing.
http://online.wsj.com/public/resources/documents/info-COLLEGE0711-sort.html
The result that Andover has incredible college placement results is certainly true, but that WSJ study went about showing it in a very bizarre way. It basically picked 8 colleges as representative and decided that's how to rank private high schools throughout the country. Since I just "happen" to have a better methodology at hand, you might want to check it out. http://www.matriculationstats.org As you'll see, I'm going to be adding day schools outside NYC soon (possibly as early as this weekend) and a number of DC area schools will be included. In fact, because I've been hanging around here a bit lately, the DC area will be the most represented area for schools that are added during the inital weeks.
An example of the systemic error in the study came to light just this morning when I was trading emails with my college roommate. He has a daughter at IMSA (Illinois Math Science Academy) a 5-day boarding public school. It made this list but when you dig deeper into the school's college matriculations, you notice that they have a heavy concentration on MIT, not surprising given the focus of the school, and University of Chicago, also not surprising given the school's location. And coincidentally those two schools happen to be among the 8 used in this study. IMSA is certainly a fine school, but if a broader range of colleges and universities had been used in the study, IMSA would not have rated as highly.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Is the high entrance of TJ and STA graduates to Ivy League related to legacy status or a high proportion of AP Scholars and National Merit Semi-finalists. (STA has < 10 % NMF and TJ > 40%).
What role does recruited athlete (e.g, lacrosse, crew, swimming, tennis) and legacy play in the high entrance of TJ and STA graduates to Ivy league?
I know that in DC's MCPS elementary school grade (about 55 kids) there were three members of DH's Harvard CLASS (not just Harvard graduates). I assume this is not entirely a fluke. There are tons of alumni of top-tier colleges in this area, so I wouldn't put too much weight (a little, yes) on the "legacy advantage" at particular privates.
And certainly when comparing two similar private schools, one would expect the legacy advantage to more or less cancel out.
We all know and understand that there are many factors that contribute to college admissons decisions. I'm not attempting to produce any definitive answers to the question of exactly how those factors interact (though I can't help but have some thoughts on the subject). I'm merely producing some objective, observed statistics for your pleasure(?), aguish(?) or indifference.
Anonymous wrote:NCS has the class of 2009 data on it's website. This should be a link to the school publications.
https://www.ncs.cathedral.org/podium/default.aspx?t=132807
You have to find the Fall 2009 Magazine (listed under school publications) which has been scanned. Go to p. 31 for the complete class of 2009 matriculation list. For anyone interested on the following page (32) there is a list of nationally recognized scholars (ie National Merit Semifinalists & scholars, National Achievement Finalists & Gates Scholar et al.)
BTW. Please know my rant above was NOT directed at the matriculations stats guy and just want to say to him... I think it's great what you're doing. Is your system perfect? No - we all know that's impossible. Let's face it, other than the top five you listed, standings are subjective and there is always speculation and controversy over the US News & World Report Rankings (however, whether you're a fan of the USN&WR rankings or not... they do matter). That being said, I believe you're doing your best to be accurate, fair and I appreciate your detailed explanation of how you've derived your valuations. Thank you!!!
*One minor note to help the matriculation stats guy - when NCS lists "Wesleyan University" that is the same institution in Middletown CT commonly referred to as "Wesleyan College" (I noticed your website lists it as "college" but the school is officially called Wesleyan University please feel free to check the website http://www.wesleyan.edu). To make matters more confusing according to Wikipedia "Wesleyan [University], along with Amherst and Williams Colleges, is a member of the historic Little Three colleges and has long been known as one of the Little Ivies."
Oh, thanks. Now I have to choose between using one complete year and 5 years with nearly complete data for schools with at least 4 students plus info for schools with at least 1.
Just teasing. I'm always grateful to have more, rather than less, data to perform analyses.
And thanks for pointing out the discrepancy about Wesleyan. I've corrected it on the listing page of background information, though I was only confused about the name, never about the identity of the school for the analysis.
Anonymous wrote:MatriculationStats wrote:Anonymous wrote:It is essential to consider Ivy legacy status in looking at admissions. NCS, STA, Sidwell, and probably GDS all have large numbers of parents who attended Ivy League universities and they collect that information as part of the admissions process. It would be interesting if these schools provided legacy data along with their matriculation statistics, but I don't think that will happen.
Agreed, it would be nice to see that information. It would also be nice to see the basic characteristics of every student who was accepted at each particular school (legacy, outstanding athlete, politically connected family, math genius kid, etc), but it's just not going to happen. And if even if I had access to that information, it would be difficult to summarize in meaningful, useful ways (though I'm sure it could be done somehow).
The public does have access to a certain amount of information and I've tried to summarize that usefully. One certainly has to be careful when interpreting such statistics, but in the final analysis, I do believe that sufficiently large differences in matriculation results do mean something. You'll have to decide what you believe that something is in any specific situation.
I would like to commend you on your website; I have never seen this information aggregated anywhere else, ever. How soon do you anticipate having DC private-school data available? Another thread had "top 25 college" matriculation data for NCS (68% of the graduating class), St. Albans (59%), Holton-Arms (49%), and Landon (26%), but we can't find anything for Sidwell, Potomac School, GDS, Maret, etc. I agree that the Wall Street Journal survey was arbitrary and somewhat of a joke, given its sample selection. Far better to use (as you do on your web site) Top 25 as defined by US News or Ivy+Stanford+MIT. I'm digressing, but to what do you attribute the astronomically high (40%+) Ivy matriculation percentiles of Trinity and Collegiate in NYC? Are these exceptional kids or progeny of rich Wall Streeters who might endow an Ivy building?
Thanks for the compliment.
I'm anticipating some DC private school data to start appearing within a week. After that, it will trickle on the same way that I've been adding boarding schools, one or two a day (sometimes none). I do have a full-time job and this is just a hobby.
So far, I've been able to find useable data for NCS, Holton-Arms, Landon, Potomac (maybe). Sidwell, St. Alban's, GDS and Maret did not make available the information I need to do my analysis. As I said earlier, unless some insider wants to help me out, there's little I can do.
Note that my definition of a "top school" is somewhat different from the "top 25 college" matriculation data that you are citing.
Well, here in NYC we're just smarter than everybody everywhere else! Isn't it obvious?
Seriously, I've been wondering that myself. My older son is about to hear from several schools which figure prominently on the NYC list and we certainly will never be in a position to endow an Ivy building (and I hope both my sons attend an Ivy - preferably my alma mater one day). I suspect that the success of the top NYC schools has something to do with the population of NYC. A greater applicant pool means they can be a bit more selective at the top schools, but there are probably a number of other factors at play that I don't completely understand. It's interesting to note that of the top 5 NYC schools on that list, all but Trinity are small, single sex schools. Also, I've found at least one other day school in another city that has results in their range. You'll have to check http://www.matriculationstats.orgin a week or so to find out.
Anonymous wrote:It is essential to consider Ivy legacy status in looking at admissions. NCS, STA, Sidwell, and probably GDS all have large numbers of parents who attended Ivy League universities and they collect that information as part of the admissions process. It would be interesting if these schools provided legacy data along with their matriculation statistics, but I don't think that will happen.
Agreed, it would be nice to see that information. It would also be nice to see the basic characteristics of every student who was accepted at each particular school (legacy, outstanding athlete, politically connected family, math genius kid, etc), but it's just not going to happen. And if even if I had access to that information, it would be difficult to summarize in meaningful, useful ways (though I'm sure it could be done somehow).
The public does have access to a certain amount of information and I've tried to summarize that usefully. One certainly has to be careful when interpreting such statistics, but in the final analysis, I do believe that sufficiently large differences in matriculation results do mean something. You'll have to decide what you believe that something is in any specific situation.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The last time the WSJ did a survey about college app. success was 2 years ago. The schools in this area who had the best college stats in the order they were listed:
Holton-Arms, Thomas Jefferson, Sidwell & then NCS. So, you seem to be a NCS booster since that is the school you picked (which was only 4th best in this area).
http://online.wsj.com/public/resources/documents/info-COLLEGE0711-sort.html
Not the previous pp, but your use of this table is unjustified. To say that one school is better than another because it sent 8, rather than 6, kids in one year to one of 8 colleges, chosen in part by because they publish the data in their yearbooks, just does not make any sense statistically. It is meaningless, an example of the innumeracy we are all trying to ensure that our children overcome by sending them to good schools.
Ok, I got tired of having to re-identify myself every post. This is the guy with the matriculation stats website, in case it wasn't obvious.
I agree absolutely that the methodology in that WSJ article was ridiculous. Just too many unsupported, random choices were made. It's difficult enough to determine what conclusions you can draw from information like matriculation statistics when used properly, but when they are used improperly, you're deep into Mark Twain quotation territory.