St. Albans/NCS vs. Landon/Holton-Arms

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[Post New]02/20/2010 06:12
Anonymous
I'm looking at these schools in terms of their secondary education.

What do you think the primary differences between these schools are? Obviously, both are incredible academically, but how do you think the atmospheres differ? I'd imagine the religious affiliation of St. Albans/NCS would contribute to a stricter environment, but what do you think?

Also, I'm also curious about Potomac School. It seems like the type of high school that I would have wanted to go to -- a lot of school spirit, high student involvement, relaxed environment. But based on the school's Web site, the colleges graduates attend aren't on the same caliber as the ones St.A/NCS and Landon/H-A go on to. How do you think Potomac compares to St. Albans/NCS and Landon/Holton-Arms?
[Post New]02/20/2010 07:49
Anonymous
It tends to be a hair-splitting exercise at that level of distinguishing all of the above schools that are excellent. There was a Worth Magazine article in 2003 where Potomac ranked higher than some of the others. Then, the Dec. 2007 WSJ article ranked Holton, TJ, Sidwell and NCS as the best schools in this area to get kids into the top colleges.

All of these schools are great and it really depends on the particular kid and their interests. All of these schools are hard to get into. STA/NCS are the hardes to get into; then Potomac; then Holton; then Landon of your list.

There is no guarantee of getting into these schools so before denouncing any of them -- people should really be humble first and see where they get in.

Re: your question of religious affiliation -- I wouldn't say STA/NCS are "stricter" for that reason as you seem to have posited from your statement. They are all rigorous schools (Landon probably the least so of the bunch). If a kid does well at any of these schools -- they should get into a top college. All of the schools you mentioned do well with athletic recruiting and legacy admits.
[Post New]02/20/2010 09:13
SAM2
Member Offline
Anonymous wrote:It tends to be a hair-splitting exercise at that level of distinguishing all of the above schools that are excellent. There was a Worth Magazine article in 2003 where Potomac ranked higher than some of the others. Then, the Dec. 2007 WSJ article ranked Holton, TJ, Sidwell and NCS as the best schools in this area to get kids into the top colleges.

I think that trying to use any one of those college matriculation articles to differentiate among these schools is going to lead to lots of inaccuracy. Each of those articles focused only on the high schools that supplied a small handful of colleges, so there was a lot of luck involved. For example, if a hypothetical high school sent 40% of its class to Yale that year but none to Harvard, and the article only looked at Harvard, then the high school would still rank low. At one point, I tried to combine the results of all three articles to improve the reliability some, but I think even those results are not terribly reliable (although they're probably better than any one article can give). Here's what I got when I combined the results:

% of students attending colleges covered by the 2007, 2004, and 2003 articles
St. Albans 16.84%
NCS 16.34%
Sidwell 14.33%
GDS 11.31%
Thos Jefferson 10.08%
Holton 6.33%
Potomac 6.09%
Landon 5.01%
Maret 4.94%
Richard Montgomery 4.45%
Winston Churchill 4.30%

There's a website called matriculationstats.org that's attempting to apply an interesting methodical approach to developing numbers like these for a much broader group of top colleges. I don't think he's added too many DC schools yet, but he's got some.

All that said, I think PP's point about hair-splitting among excellent schools is dead-on accurate. In comparing excellent schools like these, I think OP's focus on other intangible aspects that you like is the right way to go.
[Post New]02/20/2010 09:56
Anonymous
OP - you asked about differences, so I'm going to avoid the obvious impulse to rank. Plus I'm a Mom of only girls, so I can really only address NCS and Holton. The boys and girls components are quite different for both pairs.

NCS - a bit larger, closer proximity to brother school, religious, 7-12 grade

Holton - parochial, suburban, some classes shared with boys, but fewer due to distance (still plenty of extra-curric interactions, though), uniforms, 3-12 grade

Both are great schools with great exmissions and competitive admissions. Both can be highly stressful academically and socially.
[Post New]02/20/2010 11:15
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:OP - you asked about differences, so I'm going to avoid the obvious impulse to rank. Plus I'm a Mom of only girls, so I can really only address NCS and Holton. The boys and girls components are quite different for both pairs.

NCS - a bit larger, closer proximity to brother school, religious, 7-12 grade

Holton - parochial, suburban, some classes shared with boys, but fewer due to distance (still plenty of extra-curric interactions, though), uniforms, 3-12 grade

Both are great schools with great exmissions and competitive admissions. Both can be highly stressful academically and socially.


NCS is 4-12.

When we visited Holton a couple of years ago they said they were dropping the shared classes because of scheduling problems. Did that change?

Holton is an independent school, not a parochial school.
[Post New]02/20/2010 11:23
Anonymous
SAM2 wrote:Here's what I got when I combined the results:

% of students attending colleges covered by the 2007, 2004, and 2003 articles
St. Albans 16.84%
NCS 16.34%
Sidwell 14.33%
GDS 11.31%
Thos Jefferson 10.08%
Holton 6.33%
Potomac 6.09%
Landon 5.01%
Maret 4.94%
Richard Montgomery 4.45%
Winston Churchill 4.30%

There's a website called matriculationstats.org that's attempting to apply an interesting methodical approach to developing numbers like these for a much broader group of top colleges. I don't think he's added too many DC schools yet, but he's got some.

All that said, I think PP's point about hair-splitting among excellent schools is dead-on accurate. In comparing excellent schools like these, I think OP's focus on other intangible aspects that you like is the right way to go.


I know other people have thanked you for doing this, and I want to, too! It's incredibly helpful (with the all caveats that you yourself have added, of course).
[Post New]02/20/2010 12:18
Anonymous
That's not an accurate analysis pp and I think you're patting yourself on the back because I think you did that crazy analysis. One can't compare earlier stats with the more recent ones. It was a lot easier to get into college relatively speaking than it was in the last 2 or 3 years.
[Post New]02/20/2010 12:37
MatriculationStats
Member Offline
SAM2 wrote:
Anonymous wrote:It tends to be a hair-splitting exercise at that level of distinguishing all of the above schools that are excellent. There was a Worth Magazine article in 2003 where Potomac ranked higher than some of the others. Then, the Dec. 2007 WSJ article ranked Holton, TJ, Sidwell and NCS as the best schools in this area to get kids into the top colleges.

I think that trying to use any one of those college matriculation articles to differentiate among these schools is going to lead to lots of inaccuracy. Each of those articles focused only on the high schools that supplied a small handful of colleges, so there was a lot of luck involved. For example, if a hypothetical high school sent 40% of its class to Yale that year but none to Harvard, and the article only looked at Harvard, then the high school would still rank low. At one point, I tried to combine the results of all three articles to improve the reliability some, but I think even those results are not terribly reliable (although they're probably better than any one article can give). Here's what I got when I combined the results:

% of students attending colleges covered by the 2007, 2004, and 2003 articles
St. Albans 16.84%
NCS 16.34%
Sidwell 14.33%
GDS 11.31%
Thos Jefferson 10.08%
Holton 6.33%
Potomac 6.09%
Landon 5.01%
Maret 4.94%
Richard Montgomery 4.45%
Winston Churchill 4.30%

There's a website called matriculationstats.org that's attempting to apply an interesting methodical approach to developing numbers like these for a much broader group of top colleges. I don't think he's added too many DC schools yet, but he's got some.

All that said, I think PP's point about hair-splitting among excellent schools is dead-on accurate. In comparing excellent schools like these, I think OP's focus on other intangible aspects that you like is the right way to go.


Thanks for the plug, SAM2.

I was about to add St. Alban's, anyway, but since I noticed this thread, I also added Holton-Arms today. http://matriculationstats.org

One small caveat, though. St. Alban's doesn't release complete information to the public. They do release several different takes on their matriculation results (these schools enrolled 10 or more graduates over the past 5 years (with specific numbers), 5 or more graduates over past 5 years, 2 or more graduates over the past 5 years). Based on that information, I was able to estimate (reasonably closely, I believe), the statistical results that I present in my tables. I have calculated such inferential statistics for several other schools included in the tables on the website (and disclose this fact on the home page, as well).

Other DC area schools currently included are: Gilman, NCS, and Maret. More will be included soon.
[Post New]02/20/2010 12:45
Anonymous
MatriculationStats, I really appreciate your efforts to compile these stats! Athough ... Gilman? I don't think this is an area school.
[Post New]02/20/2010 12:58
MatriculationStats
Member Offline
Anonymous wrote:MatriculationStats, I really appreciate your efforts to compile these stats! Athough ... Gilman? I don't think this is an area school.


Fair enough. Not being from the DC area, I was unfairly lumping Baltimore into the general DC area.
[Post New]02/20/2010 14:57
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:OP - you asked about differences, so I'm going to avoid the obvious impulse to rank. Plus I'm a Mom of only girls, so I can really only address NCS and Holton. The boys and girls components are quite different for both pairs.

NCS - a bit larger, closer proximity to brother school, religious, 7-12 grade

Holton - parochial, suburban, some classes shared with boys, but fewer due to distance (still plenty of extra-curric interactions, though), uniforms, 3-12 grade

Both are great schools with great exmissions and competitive admissions. Both can be highly stressful academically and socially.


NCS is 4-12.

When we visited Holton a couple of years ago they said they were dropping the shared classes because of scheduling problems. Did that change?

Holton is an independent school, not a parochial school.


9:56 here - sorry.... super pregnant and have NO brain left. Holton is definitely NOT parochial. It's pretty much the only girls' school in the area that isn't (it and Madeira, I think). I looked into it and yes, they have dropped all but the rarest shared classes since I was last there. They still share a few sports (swimming, most notably) and other extra currics. Also combined community service activites and other of that sort of thing.
[Post New]02/20/2010 18:26
Anonymous
I'm a Potomac parent and just wanted to share my perspective. We live in No. Va. which made the choice very easy for us. Also, my kids started in Kindergarten and are now in higher divisions, but not yet to the upper school (high school). From talking to parents with older children, here are some of the things that they love about the school:

Small size of each grade -- you really know the kids and the parents.

The school isn't overly focused on only athletics or only academics -- it's a good mix.

The importance of character and living exemplary lives is really stressed.

The kids learn how to write well.

The school takes advantage of the huge, beautiful campus. Lots of stewardship and environmental opportunities.

Finally, the kids that I know who recently graduated are now at Stanford and Brown. (And frankly it doesn't bother me that everyone isn't trying to get into an Ivy. I figure that each college will only accept so many applicants from each school.)
[Post New]02/20/2010 20:08
Anonymous
That's good to hear positive stuff about Potomac pp. I was an earlier poster who said it is just a hair-splitting exercise for people to worry about any of the schools mentioned...they are all great including Potomac.
[Post New]02/21/2010 12:11
Anonymous
This is the OP. Thanks so much for all your insight. You are completely right for those who said not to focus on the school's matriculation list (although it's just so tempting when you see such an impressive list!) Ultimately, if a student works hard no matter what school he or she attends, he or she will be rewarded accordingly. I am still curious about the atmosphere of St. Albans and NCS. Are students excited to be there or, at the very least, enjoying their time there? With that price tag, I want my kids to be among students who are passionate about the school, rather than simply having parents who are passionate about seeing their kids get ahead in life. The amount of school pride can really define someone's high school experience.
[Post New]02/21/2010 15:20
Anonymous
It really depends on the child OP/PP. Yes, the children generally like being there...the academics, athletics and everything else are excellent. But, the work is no walk in the park. So, if your child loves hard work -- it's a great place. If not -- no so much.
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