Race in college admissions is back in front of the Supreme Court Oral Argument on Oct. 31 (Monday)

[Anonymous]

The only surprising thing I’ve seen is how large the handicap afforded to black applicants has been at Harvard.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
We agree and that happens. People call it locality diversity when school pluck someone from a fly over state with top scores but “300 points lower” than the top students.

It’s happening for all groups.

They are not picking white or Asian kids 300 points lower from a flyover state.

Yes they are

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The only surprising thing I’ve seen is how large the handicap afforded to black applicants has been at Harvard.

And rightfully so. Harvard gained some of its prominence and longevity from donations made by individuals who profited from slavery. There were Harvard presidents who were slaveholders.

Some of you don't know anything about the history of how things were in this country and why things appear the way they do today.

[Anonymous]

I can't wait until this is over and white people find a new metric to be on top. Can't have Asians compromise 90% of Harvard. White people wouldn't allow it. Maybe then Asians will have to acknowledge who's really against them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:wow this is crazy, you can be the 4th lowest decile aa and still be way above asians. crazy no wonder asians feel discriminated

Standardized tests are culturally biased and we're originally implemented by a racist.

If the index was normalized for tests, this alleged disparity ( SFFA is the source of this massaged data) would be much lower.

Anyways, the SAT / ACT impact will continue to diminish over time.

What are Asians and Whites in common but so much different for Blacks? culturally

What biase are we talking about?

What?

DP.. apparently, SATs are culturally bias, hence Black people score lower on SATs. But since Asian Americans score higher on SATs that must mean that they have more in common with white people.

That's the argument. And yes, it's laughable and ignorant.

Then what is your reason for AA people scoring lower?

Go ahead, say it out loud. I dare you. You know you think it. Have some courage and show everyone what you really think.

And that, right there, ladies and gents, is why colleges have the current policy.

not PP, but my guess is that they care less about education and put less effort.
Culturally they may value more in succeeding in the areas such as sports or entertainment industry like being a rapper or singer which are all ok. Nothing is wrong with that.

However if you want to improve on the education area, you have to go to the source of the problema and support and aid them to care more and put more effort in education instead of forcing it to increase the numbers artificially.

You actually did say it out loud! I am shocked! There it is, folks... your open racism of the day. Hope it is the last one you hear today, but unfortunately we are likely to get more.

PP you disgust me. You are repulsive. And also an imbecile. "Educate them more, but don't let them into the best colleges!" Lol.

Why are you mad??

The reason is simple on the surface, you care less and put less effort = lower score.
You care more and put more effort = higher score.

It's most likely a cultural thing. Asians probably care more about education and put more effort.

Seriously, what else could be the reason?

Maybe asians study more for standardized tests because they know they are competing against other asians who have high scores and have to stand out. Maybe the good black and hispanic students know from history that they don't need super high scores in order get multiple acceptances at all the ivies.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The only surprising thing I’ve seen is how large the handicap afforded to black applicants has been at Harvard.

It’s amazing how bad the other applicants soft skills and ECs are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I can't wait until this is over and white people find a new metric to be on top. Can't have Asians compromise 90% of Harvard. White people wouldn't allow it. Maybe then Asians will have to acknowledge who's really against them.

*Comprise* Sorry :/

[Anonymous]

One day we will all see that the "unqualified" black student was never the problem to begin with.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:wow this is crazy, you can be the 4th lowest decile aa and still be way above asians. crazy no wonder asians feel discriminated

Standardized tests are culturally biased and we're originally implemented by a racist.

If the index was normalized for tests, this alleged disparity ( SFFA is the source of this massaged data) would be much lower.

Anyways, the SAT / ACT impact will continue to diminish over time.

What are Asians and Whites in common but so much different for Blacks? culturally

What biase are we talking about?

What?

DP.. apparently, SATs are culturally bias, hence Black people score lower on SATs. But since Asian Americans score higher on SATs that must mean that they have more in common with white people.

That's the argument. And yes, it's laughable and ignorant.

Then what is your reason for AA people scoring lower?

Go ahead, say it out loud. I dare you. You know you think it. Have some courage and show everyone what you really think.

And that, right there, ladies and gents, is why colleges have the current policy.

not PP, but my guess is that they care less about education and put less effort.
Culturally they may value more in succeeding in the areas such as sports or entertainment industry like being a rapper or singer which are all ok. Nothing is wrong with that.

However if you want to improve on the education area, you have to go to the source of the problema and support and aid them to care more and put more effort in education instead of forcing it to increase the numbers artificially.

You actually did say it out loud! I am shocked! There it is, folks... your open racism of the day. Hope it is the last one you hear today, but unfortunately we are likely to get more.

PP you disgust me. You are repulsive. And also an imbecile. "Educate them more, but don't let them into the best colleges!" Lol.

Why are you mad??

The reason is simple on the surface, you care less and put less effort = lower score.
You care more and put more effort = higher score.

It's most likely a cultural thing. Asians probably care more about education and put more effort.

Seriously, what else could be the reason?

Maybe asians study more for standardized tests because they know they are competing against other asians who have high scores and have to stand out. Maybe the good black and hispanic students know from history that they don't need super high scores in order get multiple acceptances at all the ivies.

Yes. This is what’s so disappointing about AA advocates. They don’t realize that people rise to the standard that is expected of them. Kids respond to incentives just like everyone else. Removing AA at this point in history is going to narrow the achievement gap, not increase it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:wow this is crazy, you can be the 4th lowest decile aa and still be way above asians. crazy no wonder asians feel discriminated

Standardized tests are culturally biased and we're originally implemented by a racist.

If the index was normalized for tests, this alleged disparity ( SFFA is the source of this massaged data) would be much lower.

Anyways, the SAT / ACT impact will continue to diminish over time.

What are Asians and Whites in common but so much different for Blacks? culturally

What biase are we talking about?

What?

DP.. apparently, SATs are culturally bias, hence Black people score lower on SATs. But since Asian Americans score higher on SATs that must mean that they have more in common with white people.

That's the argument. And yes, it's laughable and ignorant.

Then what is your reason for AA people scoring lower?

Go ahead, say it out loud. I dare you. You know you think it. Have some courage and show everyone what you really think.

And that, right there, ladies and gents, is why colleges have the current policy.

not PP, but my guess is that they care less about education and put less effort.
Culturally they may value more in succeeding in the areas such as sports or entertainment industry like being a rapper or singer which are all ok. Nothing is wrong with that.

However if you want to improve on the education area, you have to go to the source of the problema and support and aid them to care more and put more effort in education instead of forcing it to increase the numbers artificially.

You actually did say it out loud! I am shocked! There it is, folks... your open racism of the day. Hope it is the last one you hear today, but unfortunately we are likely to get more.

PP you disgust me. You are repulsive. And also an imbecile. "Educate them more, but don't let them into the best colleges!" Lol.

Why are you mad??

The reason is simple on the surface, you care less and put less effort = lower score.
You care more and put more effort = higher score.

It's most likely a cultural thing. Asians probably care more about education and put more effort.

Seriously, what else could be the reason?

Maybe asians study more for standardized tests because they know they are competing against other asians who have high scores and have to stand out. Maybe the good black and hispanic students know from history that they don't need super high scores in order get multiple acceptances at all the ivies.

Yes. This is what’s so disappointing about AA advocates. They don’t realize that people rise to the standard that is expected of them. Kids respond to incentives just like everyone else. Removing AA at this point in history is going to narrow the achievement gap, not increase it.

So you're saying that Black and Hispanic students choose to do less because they know they will be admitted? Now you just sound stupid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:wow this is crazy, you can be the 4th lowest decile aa and still be way above asians. crazy no wonder asians feel discriminated

Standardized tests are culturally biased and we're originally implemented by a racist.

If the index was normalized for tests, this alleged disparity ( SFFA is the source of this massaged data) would be much lower.

Anyways, the SAT / ACT impact will continue to diminish over time.

What are Asians and Whites in common but so much different for Blacks? culturally

What biase are we talking about?

What?

DP.. apparently, SATs are culturally bias, hence Black people score lower on SATs. But since Asian Americans score higher on SATs that must mean that they have more in common with white people.

That's the argument. And yes, it's laughable and ignorant.

Then what is your reason for AA people scoring lower?

Go ahead, say it out loud. I dare you. You know you think it. Have some courage and show everyone what you really think.

And that, right there, ladies and gents, is why colleges have the current policy.

not PP, but my guess is that they care less about education and put less effort.
Culturally they may value more in succeeding in the areas such as sports or entertainment industry like being a rapper or singer which are all ok. Nothing is wrong with that.

However if you want to improve on the education area, you have to go to the source of the problema and support and aid them to care more and put more effort in education instead of forcing it to increase the numbers artificially.

You actually did say it out loud! I am shocked! There it is, folks... your open racism of the day. Hope it is the last one you hear today, but unfortunately we are likely to get more.

PP you disgust me. You are repulsive. And also an imbecile. "Educate them more, but don't let them into the best colleges!" Lol.

Why are you mad??

The reason is simple on the surface, you care less and put less effort = lower score.
You care more and put more effort = higher score.

It's most likely a cultural thing. Asians probably care more about education and put more effort.

Seriously, what else could be the reason?

Maybe asians study more for standardized tests because they know they are competing against other asians who have high scores and have to stand out. Maybe the good black and hispanic students know from history that they don't need super high scores in order get multiple acceptances at all the ivies.

Yes. This is what’s so disappointing about AA advocates. They don’t realize that people rise to the standard that is expected of them. Kids respond to incentives just like everyone else. Removing AA at this point in history is going to narrow the achievement gap, not increase it.

So you're saying that Black and Hispanic students choose to do less because they know they will be admitted? Now you just sound stupid.

Athletes may not test prep and take the test again if they have met the index.

My son is an athlete and had a very low score comparably but it was high enough for the Ivy index so he never studied or took it again.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:wow this is crazy, you can be the 4th lowest decile aa and still be way above asians. crazy no wonder asians feel discriminated

It's interest that the top academic African Applicant's have a better than 50% chance of admission, but that it's still long odds for white and asians and somehow that isn't evidence of racial discrimination

Just in case no one has mentioned this yet (I’m still reading through the thread), it’s likely that the numbers of white students and Asian students who apply are astronomically larger than the numbers of African American students. Native Americans don’t even get a column. So understanding the numbers and what they mean is very limited without knowing how many students are in each category. And of course the racial categories cross with other categories such as sports and legacies. So one reason the admission stats might be so high for the African American and Hispanic students could be because they are relatively very small numbers. ( As in 56 % of 10 students vs 13 % of 100 students will yield 5 students vs 13 ).

So you're saying there is a racial quota? I can't wait for this decision to come down

NP. Or it could be fewer black students even apply and the ones who do are actually qualified.

Universities put extra effort into outreach to get minority students to apply.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The only surprising thing I’ve seen is how large the handicap afforded to black applicants has been at Harvard.

And rightfully so. Harvard gained some of its prominence and longevity from donations made by individuals who profited from slavery. There were Harvard presidents who were slaveholders.

Some of you don't know anything about the history of how things were in this country and why things appear the way they do today.

A significant number of those Black applicants benefitting from AA are NOT ADOS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The only surprising thing I’ve seen is how large the handicap afforded to black applicants has been at Harvard.

And rightfully so. Harvard gained some of its prominence and longevity from donations made by individuals who profited from slavery. There were Harvard presidents who were slaveholders.

Some of you don't know anything about the history of how things were in this country and why things appear the way they do today.

Utterly absurd and idiotic take. Countries and societies have the capacity to move on and look forward. The US is the only country that constantly looks back into history to self flagellate over past transgressions. Children today shouldn’t pay for the sins of distant ancestors and as a society we should try to strive for a meritocracy. Giving black applicants a 450 point handicap in 2922 is utterly absurd. Not only does it cast every black admit under the cloud of sun-par credentials but it unnecessarily penalizes white, Asian and Hispanic applicants. Affirmative action is toxic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:wow this is crazy, you can be the 4th lowest decile aa and still be way above asians. crazy no wonder asians feel discriminated

Standardized tests are culturally biased and we're originally implemented by a racist.

If the index was normalized for tests, this alleged disparity ( SFFA is the source of this massaged data) would be much lower.

Anyways, the SAT / ACT impact will continue to diminish over time.

What are Asians and Whites in common but so much different for Blacks? culturally

What biase are we talking about?

What?

DP.. apparently, SATs are culturally bias, hence Black people score lower on SATs. But since Asian Americans score higher on SATs that must mean that they have more in common with white people.

That's the argument. And yes, it's laughable and ignorant.

Then what is your reason for AA people scoring lower?

Go ahead, say it out loud. I dare you. You know you think it. Have some courage and show everyone what you really think.

And that, right there, ladies and gents, is why colleges have the current policy.

not PP, but my guess is that they care less about education and put less effort.
Culturally they may value more in succeeding in the areas such as sports or entertainment industry like being a rapper or singer which are all ok. Nothing is wrong with that.

However if you want to improve on the education area, you have to go to the source of the problema and support and aid them to care more and put more effort in education instead of forcing it to increase the numbers artificially.

You actually did say it out loud! I am shocked! There it is, folks... your open racism of the day. Hope it is the last one you hear today, but unfortunately we are likely to get more.

PP you disgust me. You are repulsive. And also an imbecile. "Educate them more, but don't let them into the best colleges!" Lol.

Why are you mad??

The reason is simple on the surface, you care less and put less effort = lower score.
You care more and put more effort = higher score.

It's most likely a cultural thing. Asians probably care more about education and put more effort.

Seriously, what else could be the reason?

Maybe asians study more for standardized tests because they know they are competing against other asians who have high scores and have to stand out. Maybe the good black and hispanic students know from history that they don't need super high scores in order get multiple acceptances at all the ivies.

Yes. This is what’s so disappointing about AA advocates. They don’t realize that people rise to the standard that is expected of them. Kids respond to incentives just like everyone else. Removing AA at this point in history is going to narrow the achievement gap, not increase it.

So you're saying that Black and Hispanic students choose to do less because they know they will be admitted? Now you just sound stupid.

I don’t think that tone is called for. All I (and the previous poster) are saying is that it’s a matter of degree. Work is costly. If the marginal payout is lower then you do less of it. Nobody is calling anyone lazy, people are smartly responding to incentives. This is why Asians study much much more hours than Blacks and Hispanics.

And that is why the achievement gap will diminish — removing AA increases the marginal benefit of studying for Blacks and reduces it for Asians.