TJ admissions now verifying free and reduced price meal status for successful 2026 applicants

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:AAP is moving to setting the pool based on the scores of the top 10% at each school so that the top kids in each school are automatically considered. Parents and Teachers can still refer so kids at the higher SES schools that do not fall into that top 10% can still be considered. It should mean that AAP starts to reflect the schools and Centers population more accurately.

m
How would that solve the issue of having some high income powerhouse centers and low income centers in name only? It almost seems to do the opposite of equity.

How it affected? At least at my kids center, AAP used to have up to 4 class rooms but only 2 since last year. So, basically, number of AAP students are cut in half and a lot less asians than before. I know a few kids, almost all are asian, who scored both cogat and nnat well above 132 didn't get into AAP. So, I would assume teacher input plays a critical role and fcps is probably doing some racial profiling as well.

I think 1 class would be ideal. You should not have 4 classes of AAP. Out of how many classes, 6? How is it “advanced” of over half of the grade is in it. Just teach the base level where it needs to be (which sounds like accelerated) and leave the name out of it. Give the kids what they need, but there is no possible way that over 50% of the class is gifted. They can accomplish what they need to at a high performing school without falsely calling everyone gifted. It’s a joke.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:AAP is moving to setting the pool based on the scores of the top 10% at each school so that the top kids in each school are automatically considered. Parents and Teachers can still refer so kids at the higher SES schools that do not fall into that top 10% can still be considered. It should mean that AAP starts to reflect the schools and Centers population more accurately.

m
How would that solve the issue of having some high income powerhouse centers and low income centers in name only? It almost seems to do the opposite of equity.

How it affected? At least at my kids center, AAP used to have up to 4 class rooms but only 2 since last year. So, basically, number of AAP students are cut in half and a lot less asians than before. I know a few kids, almost all are asian, who scored both cogat and nnat well above 132 didn't get into AAP. So, I would assume teacher input plays a critical role and fcps is probably doing some racial profiling as well.

I think 1 class would be ideal. You should not have 4 classes of AAP. Out of how many classes, 6? How is it “advanced” of over half of the grade is in it. Just teach the base level where it needs to be (which sounds like accelerated) and leave the name out of it. Give the kids what they need, but there is no possible way that over 50% of the class is gifted. They can accomplish what they need to at a high performing school without falsely calling everyone gifted. It’s a joke.

I will add that racial profiling is wrong and I’m not sure how to eliminate that element other than to get rid of teacher input, but teacher input is really helpful in determining which kids could be accommodated in a regular base program with some acceleration and which kids truly need an entirely separate program. There needs to be a way to identify racial profiling because that is wrong. I wonder if teachers aren’t even aware of their bias.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:AAP is moving to setting the pool based on the scores of the top 10% at each school so that the top kids in each school are automatically considered. Parents and Teachers can still refer so kids at the higher SES schools that do not fall into that top 10% can still be considered. It should mean that AAP starts to reflect the schools and Centers population more accurately.

m
How would that solve the issue of having some high income powerhouse centers and low income centers in name only? It almost seems to do the opposite of equity.

How it affected? At least at my kids center, AAP used to have up to 4 class rooms but only 2 since last year. So, basically, number of AAP students are cut in half and a lot less asians than before. I know a few kids, almost all are asian, who scored both cogat and nnat well above 132 didn't get into AAP. So, I would assume teacher input plays a critical role and fcps is probably doing some racial profiling as well.

I think 1 class would be ideal. You should not have 4 classes of AAP. Out of how many classes, 6? How is it “advanced” of over half of the grade is in it. Just teach the base level where it needs to be (which sounds like accelerated) and leave the name out of it. Give the kids what they need, but there is no possible way that over 50% of the class is gifted. They can accomplish what they need to at a high performing school without falsely calling everyone gifted. It’s a joke.

Well, I agree with you on this. However, this is a well rated center school, where 2 other schools feed into. Even then 4 classes is a bit much though. If you take out the other schools, I would guess that about 1 in 5 students got into AAP.

[Anonymous]

This thread just shows the potential of consultation. So many great ideas - if only FCPS had done this ahead of the hurried “reform”. We have an engaged community which has great ideas.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:AAP is moving to setting the pool based on the scores of the top 10% at each school so that the top kids in each school are automatically considered. Parents and Teachers can still refer so kids at the higher SES schools that do not fall into that top 10% can still be considered. It should mean that AAP starts to reflect the schools and Centers population more accurately.

m
How would that solve the issue of having some high income powerhouse centers and low income centers in name only? It almost seems to do the opposite of equity.

How it affected? At least at my kids center, AAP used to have up to 4 class rooms but only 2 since last year. So, basically, number of AAP students are cut in half and a lot less asians than before. I know a few kids, almost all are asian, who scored both cogat and nnat well above 132 didn't get into AAP. So, I would assume teacher input plays a critical role and fcps is probably doing some racial profiling as well.

I think 1 class would be ideal. You should not have 4 classes of AAP. Out of how many classes, 6? How is it “advanced” of over half of the grade is in it. Just teach the base level where it needs to be (which sounds like accelerated) and leave the name out of it. Give the kids what they need, but there is no possible way that over 50% of the class is gifted. They can accomplish what they need to at a high performing school without falsely calling everyone gifted. It’s a joke.

Centers pull from other schools so the classes at the Center are filled with kids from multiple schools. That can be a decent number of kids based on the size of the ES.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I'd improve funding for Young Scholars and update the selection criteria to identify kids who need the help. Kids who are FARMS, are lower middle class but not FARMS, have parents who do not have college degrees, have only one parent figure in their lives, or are part of a historically repressed group (people of Native American or Native Central/South American ancestry and people of African American ancestry - not including white Hispanics or Black Immigrants) would be the kids I would target for extra programming. I'd probably include refugees in the repressed people group. Free after school tutoring, summer programs, and ECs would be a part of the program.

The only true solution, though, is to lift people out of poverty. Our country lacks the will to do so, and instead would rather slap a band-aid on this gaping wound. Letting a handful more black kids into elite magnet programs gives people the warm fuzzies, but it doesn't do anything to address the deep problems causing the achievement gap.

We can improve funding and programs all we want, but the schools that these kids attend will continue to be the schools that everyone else is desperate to avoid. And as history has shown in these kinds of schools, like the case of DCPS, no amount of funding seems to be enough to lift those kids out of their poverty when they continue to be isolated into highly concentrated, very low-performing schools.

Financial support can help them but cannot change their life if they don’t have the self motivation and execution. Sending them to TJ also cannot change their life. Staying at the bottom of TJ is nothing good for them.

So glad you know what’s best for them. Yes, don’t waste a precious spot at TJ on them since you in all of your almighty knowledge say they don’t have the “self motivation and execution”. How would you know this for each individual child??? Hmmm. A stereotype. Kind of like the Asian parenting stereotypes. Interesting . . .

PP who suggested improving Young Scholars and trying to lift people out of poverty, here. I honestly don't think a precious spot at TJ should be wasted on a kid who has not demonstrated any particular self motivation or execution. Admitting kids to TJ who do not have the academic capacity for TJ is just setting them up for failure. But that's precisely why I want to improve Young Scholars, improve the lower SES middle schools, and try to lift people out of poverty. At least if the funding and programming is there for the lower SES kids, they have a much more fair chance to develop the academic skills they need and demonstrate their self motivation. Whether or not any individual kids rise to the occasion is up to them, but at least we're giving them a chance.

They already do this. TJ current students already do tutoring and support specifically focused on schools/areas that are less represented

Here is what I would do

Eliminate AAP from the top 1/3 of schools. Those kids have a high enough cohort at their base to be challenged.
Have AAP be an elite program for kids in the bottom 2/3 of schools. Less than 5% of kids total ideally more like 1%

TJ Admissions would be anyone in the AAP program and then kids who have the best scores after that.

These ideas are pretty awful. I mean, I want to be polite, but they're quite frankly idiotic. I honestly can't believe that anyone thought this was reasonable and put it out there. You should feel embarrassed.

-The top 1/3 of schools may have a large cohort of 90th percentile plus kids. But they also have a sizable cohort of 99.9th percentile kids. The top 1-2% at any school will have needs that cannot be met in a general cohort. You're basically suggesting that the IQ 120 kids at low SES schools need an extra special program, but the IQ 145+ kids would be finehe face of all gifted research, but hey. Who cares about the kids who are actually gifted when they ruin your political agenda, right? AAP should be reduced in size to the top 5% at each school. Those are the kids who will be outliers in regular classrooms even in the high SES schools.

-Virginia has a gifted mandate. The state requires that gifted kids be given gifted services. Your solution is in violation of the law.

-AAP is also an advanced curriculum. Are you suggesting that the top kids at the high SES schools should not have access to a curriculum appropriate to their academic level? Are you going to keep them out of advanced math or 7th grade Algebra, which are largely accessed through AAP, while you're at it?

-Making it nearly impossible for kids from high SES schools to attend TJ is idiotic, especially since the most highly gifted kids tend to come from such schools. It's also blatantly racist and unfair. Did you really think people wouldn't notice that the schools you're denying AAP and a fair shot at TJ are the ones with high concentrations of Asian kids? All kids across FCPS should have equal opportunity to demonstrate their abilities and access the magnet program based on those demonstrated abilities, especially when the magnet program is the only way in FCPS to access many advanced math and science classes, and especially when there are at least some gifted kids in the "TJ feeder" schools who literally cannot have their needs met without access to those advanced classes.

-Since TJ is a governor's school, it must admit certain numbers of kids from LCPS, APS, PW Schools, etc. Those schools don't have AAP and thus can't be admitted based on AAP status. In light of this, you would most likely drive educated, affluent people out of Fairfax.

-If you water down TJ the way you propose, it will soon become just like any regular high school. The advanced course offerings will disappear when there isn't a sufficient enough cohort to take them. The expensive labs will be pointless if the kids are topping out at the same Honors and AP classes that would have been available at their local schools.

With all due respect you are a moron

Kids at the 99.9th percentile should be skipping multiple grades including going to college early. The majority of students aren't actually gifted they are just smart and will be served in a regular classroom at a top school surrounded by other smart kids. My proposal identifies gifted kids attending poor home school environments which is the best bang for the buck and society at large

The kids at the 1/3 best schools can have the AAP curriculum be the general classroom curriculum

Can you do math at all moron, I'm proposing actually gifted levels for AP for the bottom 2/3 of school. The majority of the TJ class will be filled by smart (but not gifted) kids attending the better schools while also including gifted kids from the lower 2/3 schools best of both worlds.

Try and think before you post next time

AAP isn't even GT. Anyone can buy entry with a private evaluation. It's mostly just a way to keep segregation alive.

If somebody bought the AAP entry with a private evaluation and can maintain straight A with all AAP/HN courses, plus continuously getting STEM EC awards, that's still good.
private evaluation is not fake evaluation.
In this country, as long the students are doing good, they'll be seen.

The reality is that AAP itself is not that hard (TJ is a different story) and above average kids can do very well in AAP without being “gifted.” People “buying” their way into AAP perpetuates the structural inequities and creates issues such as the lack of diversity at TJ. Wealthier folks can buy their 120iq kid into AAP, where as a 129iq URM may not get in AAP through the process and can’t afford to “buy” their way in. So the 120 kid gets better instruction and acceleration and is more prepared when it is time to get into TJ. Not more intelligent or more appropriate for TJ, just more prepared because the advantage of AAP that their parents bought prepared them. The 129 kid is bright but never gets accelerated because that isn’t prioritized at their school, their parents don’t know to ask/push, or the school doesn’t have enough kids to fill an accelerated class. So in 8th grade, the 129 kid, who on pure IQ alone, is more qualified does not get in because that intelligence has not been nurtured.

These are the issues FCPS is attempting to fix. I agree, the fix was a poor attempt.

I doubt there are any schools where a 129 IQ URM can't get into AAP. The AAP equity report showed that FCPS went quite far in the other direction, where pretty much every 115 IQ URM got in. I know of 3 different URMs who had the AAP red carpet rolled out for them with sub 120 CogAT scores and okay, but not great, academic performance. Schools are instructed to look out for any URM showing any potential. They are instructed to use teacher referrals if the parents don't refer. I'm not saying that this is a bad thing. Letting URMs into AAP who show potential is likely a net positive for everyone. It's just not factually correct to say that in the last 6+ years, high ability URMs are being shut out of AAP. They're actually being admitted with significantly lower test scores than white and Asian kids.

Here's the equity report:
https://go.boarddocs.com/vsba/fairfax/Board.nsf/files/BPLQKV69B096/$file/FCPS%20final%20report%2005.05.20.pdf

That is great news! I never know whether to believe these FCPS reports but it’s the only data we have, so I guess I do.

It sounds like the identification is decent. So how do those AAP programs compare to somewhere like Longfellow? That is the next issue FCPS would need to tackle is getting the AAP programs in the underrepresented schools up to a decent standard. A program in name only will not help anyone. When my own kid was in AAP, there were huge differences between schools and programs and the savvy parents knew how to get into the good ones.

School zones are different. Parents in different school zones are also different. There are something that you cannot expect to change immediately by offering fundings. Wealth is not the key for intelligence.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I'd improve funding for Young Scholars and update the selection criteria to identify kids who need the help. Kids who are FARMS, are lower middle class but not FARMS, have parents who do not have college degrees, have only one parent figure in their lives, or are part of a historically repressed group (people of Native American or Native Central/South American ancestry and people of African American ancestry - not including white Hispanics or Black Immigrants) would be the kids I would target for extra programming. I'd probably include refugees in the repressed people group. Free after school tutoring, summer programs, and ECs would be a part of the program.

The only true solution, though, is to lift people out of poverty. Our country lacks the will to do so, and instead would rather slap a band-aid on this gaping wound. Letting a handful more black kids into elite magnet programs gives people the warm fuzzies, but it doesn't do anything to address the deep problems causing the achievement gap.

We can improve funding and programs all we want, but the schools that these kids attend will continue to be the schools that everyone else is desperate to avoid. And as history has shown in these kinds of schools, like the case of DCPS, no amount of funding seems to be enough to lift those kids out of their poverty when they continue to be isolated into highly concentrated, very low-performing schools.

Financial support can help them but cannot change their life if they don’t have the self motivation and execution. Sending them to TJ also cannot change their life. Staying at the bottom of TJ is nothing good for them.

So glad you know what’s best for them. Yes, don’t waste a precious spot at TJ on them since you in all of your almighty knowledge say they don’t have the “self motivation and execution”. How would you know this for each individual child??? Hmmm. A stereotype. Kind of like the Asian parenting stereotypes. Interesting . . .

PP who suggested improving Young Scholars and trying to lift people out of poverty, here. I honestly don't think a precious spot at TJ should be wasted on a kid who has not demonstrated any particular self motivation or execution. Admitting kids to TJ who do not have the academic capacity for TJ is just setting them up for failure. But that's precisely why I want to improve Young Scholars, improve the lower SES middle schools, and try to lift people out of poverty. At least if the funding and programming is there for the lower SES kids, they have a much more fair chance to develop the academic skills they need and demonstrate their self motivation. Whether or not any individual kids rise to the occasion is up to them, but at least we're giving them a chance.

They already do this. TJ current students already do tutoring and support specifically focused on schools/areas that are less represented

Here is what I would do

Eliminate AAP from the top 1/3 of schools. Those kids have a high enough cohort at their base to be challenged.
Have AAP be an elite program for kids in the bottom 2/3 of schools. Less than 5% of kids total ideally more like 1%

TJ Admissions would be anyone in the AAP program and then kids who have the best scores after that.

These ideas are pretty awful. I mean, I want to be polite, but they're quite frankly idiotic. I honestly can't believe that anyone thought this was reasonable and put it out there. You should feel embarrassed.

-The top 1/3 of schools may have a large cohort of 90th percentile plus kids. But they also have a sizable cohort of 99.9th percentile kids. The top 1-2% at any school will have needs that cannot be met in a general cohort. You're basically suggesting that the IQ 120 kids at low SES schools need an extra special program, but the IQ 145+ kids would be finehe face of all gifted research, but hey. Who cares about the kids who are actually gifted when they ruin your political agenda, right? AAP should be reduced in size to the top 5% at each school. Those are the kids who will be outliers in regular classrooms even in the high SES schools.

-Virginia has a gifted mandate. The state requires that gifted kids be given gifted services. Your solution is in violation of the law.

-AAP is also an advanced curriculum. Are you suggesting that the top kids at the high SES schools should not have access to a curriculum appropriate to their academic level? Are you going to keep them out of advanced math or 7th grade Algebra, which are largely accessed through AAP, while you're at it?

-Making it nearly impossible for kids from high SES schools to attend TJ is idiotic, especially since the most highly gifted kids tend to come from such schools. It's also blatantly racist and unfair. Did you really think people wouldn't notice that the schools you're denying AAP and a fair shot at TJ are the ones with high concentrations of Asian kids? All kids across FCPS should have equal opportunity to demonstrate their abilities and access the magnet program based on those demonstrated abilities, especially when the magnet program is the only way in FCPS to access many advanced math and science classes, and especially when there are at least some gifted kids in the "TJ feeder" schools who literally cannot have their needs met without access to those advanced classes.

-Since TJ is a governor's school, it must admit certain numbers of kids from LCPS, APS, PW Schools, etc. Those schools don't have AAP and thus can't be admitted based on AAP status. In light of this, you would most likely drive educated, affluent people out of Fairfax.

-If you water down TJ the way you propose, it will soon become just like any regular high school. The advanced course offerings will disappear when there isn't a sufficient enough cohort to take them. The expensive labs will be pointless if the kids are topping out at the same Honors and AP classes that would have been available at their local schools.

With all due respect you are a moron

Kids at the 99.9th percentile should be skipping multiple grades including going to college early. The majority of students aren't actually gifted they are just smart and will be served in a regular classroom at a top school surrounded by other smart kids. My proposal identifies gifted kids attending poor home school environments which is the best bang for the buck and society at large

The kids at the 1/3 best schools can have the AAP curriculum be the general classroom curriculum

Can you do math at all moron, I'm proposing actually gifted levels for AP for the bottom 2/3 of school. The majority of the TJ class will be filled by smart (but not gifted) kids attending the better schools while also including gifted kids from the lower 2/3 schools best of both worlds.

Try and think before you post next time

AAP isn't even GT. Anyone can buy entry with a private evaluation. It's mostly just a way to keep segregation alive.

If somebody bought the AAP entry with a private evaluation and can maintain straight A with all AAP/HN courses, plus continuously getting STEM EC awards, that's still good.
private evaluation is not fake evaluation.
In this country, as long the students are doing good, they'll be seen.

The reality is that AAP itself is not that hard (TJ is a different story) and above average kids can do very well in AAP without being “gifted.” People “buying” their way into AAP perpetuates the structural inequities and creates issues such as the lack of diversity at TJ. Wealthier folks can buy their 120iq kid into AAP, where as a 129iq URM may not get in AAP through the process and can’t afford to “buy” their way in. So the 120 kid gets better instruction and acceleration and is more prepared when it is time to get into TJ. Not more intelligent or more appropriate for TJ, just more prepared because the advantage of AAP that their parents bought prepared them. The 129 kid is bright but never gets accelerated because that isn’t prioritized at their school, their parents don’t know to ask/push, or the school doesn’t have enough kids to fill an accelerated class. So in 8th grade, the 129 kid, who on pure IQ alone, is more qualified does not get in because that intelligence has not been nurtured.

These are the issues FCPS is attempting to fix. I agree, the fix was a poor attempt.

I doubt there are any schools where a 129 IQ URM can't get into AAP. The AAP equity report showed that FCPS went quite far in the other direction, where pretty much every 115 IQ URM got in. I know of 3 different URMs who had the AAP red carpet rolled out for them with sub 120 CogAT scores and okay, but not great, academic performance. Schools are instructed to look out for any URM showing any potential. They are instructed to use teacher referrals if the parents don't refer. I'm not saying that this is a bad thing. Letting URMs into AAP who show potential is likely a net positive for everyone. It's just not factually correct to say that in the last 6+ years, high ability URMs are being shut out of AAP. They're actually being admitted with significantly lower test scores than white and Asian kids.

Here's the equity report:
https://go.boarddocs.com/vsba/fairfax/Board.nsf/files/BPLQKV69B096/$file/FCPS%20final%20report%2005.05.20.pdf

That is great news! I never know whether to believe these FCPS reports but it’s the only data we have, so I guess I do.

It sounds like the identification is decent. So how do those AAP programs compare to somewhere like Longfellow? That is the next issue FCPS would need to tackle is getting the AAP programs in the underrepresented schools up to a decent standard. A program in name only will not help anyone. When my own kid was in AAP, there were huge differences between schools and programs and the savvy parents knew how to get into the good ones.

School zones are different. Parents in different school zones are also different. There are something that you cannot expect to change immediately by offering fundings. Wealth is not the key for intelligence.

Wealth is not the key to intelligence but it is correlated with academic achievement. Most of the kids in AAP are not extremely intelligent. They are above average with a lot of support. High SES schools provide an tremendous advantage. If you don’t believe me, I ask why you send your kid to a high SES school not a low one. You can keep blaming low SES kids and assume your kids are high achieving only because they are smart and work hard, but it is just not borne out by the data. There is a reason people rent and buy the cheapest house to get into the “good” school districts. We all know that is true.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I'd improve funding for Young Scholars and update the selection criteria to identify kids who need the help. Kids who are FARMS, are lower middle class but not FARMS, have parents who do not have college degrees, have only one parent figure in their lives, or are part of a historically repressed group (people of Native American or Native Central/South American ancestry and people of African American ancestry - not including white Hispanics or Black Immigrants) would be the kids I would target for extra programming. I'd probably include refugees in the repressed people group. Free after school tutoring, summer programs, and ECs would be a part of the program.

The only true solution, though, is to lift people out of poverty. Our country lacks the will to do so, and instead would rather slap a band-aid on this gaping wound. Letting a handful more black kids into elite magnet programs gives people the warm fuzzies, but it doesn't do anything to address the deep problems causing the achievement gap.

We can improve funding and programs all we want, but the schools that these kids attend will continue to be the schools that everyone else is desperate to avoid. And as history has shown in these kinds of schools, like the case of DCPS, no amount of funding seems to be enough to lift those kids out of their poverty when they continue to be isolated into highly concentrated, very low-performing schools.

Financial support can help them but cannot change their life if they don’t have the self motivation and execution. Sending them to TJ also cannot change their life. Staying at the bottom of TJ is nothing good for them.

So glad you know what’s best for them. Yes, don’t waste a precious spot at TJ on them since you in all of your almighty knowledge say they don’t have the “self motivation and execution”. How would you know this for each individual child??? Hmmm. A stereotype. Kind of like the Asian parenting stereotypes. Interesting . . .

PP who suggested improving Young Scholars and trying to lift people out of poverty, here. I honestly don't think a precious spot at TJ should be wasted on a kid who has not demonstrated any particular self motivation or execution. Admitting kids to TJ who do not have the academic capacity for TJ is just setting them up for failure. But that's precisely why I want to improve Young Scholars, improve the lower SES middle schools, and try to lift people out of poverty. At least if the funding and programming is there for the lower SES kids, they have a much more fair chance to develop the academic skills they need and demonstrate their self motivation. Whether or not any individual kids rise to the occasion is up to them, but at least we're giving them a chance.

They already do this. TJ current students already do tutoring and support specifically focused on schools/areas that are less represented

Here is what I would do

Eliminate AAP from the top 1/3 of schools. Those kids have a high enough cohort at their base to be challenged.
Have AAP be an elite program for kids in the bottom 2/3 of schools. Less than 5% of kids total ideally more like 1%

TJ Admissions would be anyone in the AAP program and then kids who have the best scores after that.

These ideas are pretty awful. I mean, I want to be polite, but they're quite frankly idiotic. I honestly can't believe that anyone thought this was reasonable and put it out there. You should feel embarrassed.

-The top 1/3 of schools may have a large cohort of 90th percentile plus kids. But they also have a sizable cohort of 99.9th percentile kids. The top 1-2% at any school will have needs that cannot be met in a general cohort. You're basically suggesting that the IQ 120 kids at low SES schools need an extra special program, but the IQ 145+ kids would be finehe face of all gifted research, but hey. Who cares about the kids who are actually gifted when they ruin your political agenda, right? AAP should be reduced in size to the top 5% at each school. Those are the kids who will be outliers in regular classrooms even in the high SES schools.

-Virginia has a gifted mandate. The state requires that gifted kids be given gifted services. Your solution is in violation of the law.

-AAP is also an advanced curriculum. Are you suggesting that the top kids at the high SES schools should not have access to a curriculum appropriate to their academic level? Are you going to keep them out of advanced math or 7th grade Algebra, which are largely accessed through AAP, while you're at it?

-Making it nearly impossible for kids from high SES schools to attend TJ is idiotic, especially since the most highly gifted kids tend to come from such schools. It's also blatantly racist and unfair. Did you really think people wouldn't notice that the schools you're denying AAP and a fair shot at TJ are the ones with high concentrations of Asian kids? All kids across FCPS should have equal opportunity to demonstrate their abilities and access the magnet program based on those demonstrated abilities, especially when the magnet program is the only way in FCPS to access many advanced math and science classes, and especially when there are at least some gifted kids in the "TJ feeder" schools who literally cannot have their needs met without access to those advanced classes.

-Since TJ is a governor's school, it must admit certain numbers of kids from LCPS, APS, PW Schools, etc. Those schools don't have AAP and thus can't be admitted based on AAP status. In light of this, you would most likely drive educated, affluent people out of Fairfax.

-If you water down TJ the way you propose, it will soon become just like any regular high school. The advanced course offerings will disappear when there isn't a sufficient enough cohort to take them. The expensive labs will be pointless if the kids are topping out at the same Honors and AP classes that would have been available at their local schools.

With all due respect you are a moron

Kids at the 99.9th percentile should be skipping multiple grades including going to college early. The majority of students aren't actually gifted they are just smart and will be served in a regular classroom at a top school surrounded by other smart kids. My proposal identifies gifted kids attending poor home school environments which is the best bang for the buck and society at large

The kids at the 1/3 best schools can have the AAP curriculum be the general classroom curriculum

Can you do math at all moron, I'm proposing actually gifted levels for AP for the bottom 2/3 of school. The majority of the TJ class will be filled by smart (but not gifted) kids attending the better schools while also including gifted kids from the lower 2/3 schools best of both worlds.

Try and think before you post next time

AAP isn't even GT. Anyone can buy entry with a private evaluation. It's mostly just a way to keep segregation alive.

If somebody bought the AAP entry with a private evaluation and can maintain straight A with all AAP/HN courses, plus continuously getting STEM EC awards, that's still good.
private evaluation is not fake evaluation.
In this country, as long the students are doing good, they'll be seen.

The reality is that AAP itself is not that hard (TJ is a different story) and above average kids can do very well in AAP without being “gifted.” People “buying” their way into AAP perpetuates the structural inequities and creates issues such as the lack of diversity at TJ. Wealthier folks can buy their 120iq kid into AAP, where as a 129iq URM may not get in AAP through the process and can’t afford to “buy” their way in. So the 120 kid gets better instruction and acceleration and is more prepared when it is time to get into TJ. Not more intelligent or more appropriate for TJ, just more prepared because the advantage of AAP that their parents bought prepared them. The 129 kid is bright but never gets accelerated because that isn’t prioritized at their school, their parents don’t know to ask/push, or the school doesn’t have enough kids to fill an accelerated class. So in 8th grade, the 129 kid, who on pure IQ alone, is more qualified does not get in because that intelligence has not been nurtured.

These are the issues FCPS is attempting to fix. I agree, the fix was a poor attempt.

I doubt there are any schools where a 129 IQ URM can't get into AAP. The AAP equity report showed that FCPS went quite far in the other direction, where pretty much every 115 IQ URM got in. I know of 3 different URMs who had the AAP red carpet rolled out for them with sub 120 CogAT scores and okay, but not great, academic performance. Schools are instructed to look out for any URM showing any potential. They are instructed to use teacher referrals if the parents don't refer. I'm not saying that this is a bad thing. Letting URMs into AAP who show potential is likely a net positive for everyone. It's just not factually correct to say that in the last 6+ years, high ability URMs are being shut out of AAP. They're actually being admitted with significantly lower test scores than white and Asian kids.

Here's the equity report:
https://go.boarddocs.com/vsba/fairfax/Board.nsf/files/BPLQKV69B096/$file/FCPS%20final%20report%2005.05.20.pdf

That is great news! I never know whether to believe these FCPS reports but it’s the only data we have, so I guess I do.

It sounds like the identification is decent. So how do those AAP programs compare to somewhere like Longfellow? That is the next issue FCPS would need to tackle is getting the AAP programs in the underrepresented schools up to a decent standard. A program in name only will not help anyone. When my own kid was in AAP, there were huge differences between schools and programs and the savvy parents knew how to get into the good ones.

School zones are different. Parents in different school zones are also different. There are something that you cannot expect to change immediately by offering fundings. Wealth is not the key for intelligence.

Wealth is not the key to intelligence but it is correlated with academic achievement. Most of the kids in AAP are not extremely intelligent. They are above average with a lot of support. High SES schools provide an tremendous advantage. If you don’t believe me, I ask why you send your kid to a high SES school not a low one. You can keep blaming low SES kids and assume your kids are high achieving only because they are smart and work hard, but it is just not borne out by the data. There is a reason people rent and buy the cheapest house to get into the “good” school districts. We all know that is true.

The schools in and of themselves do not provide any particular benefit. The high SES schools do not have stronger programs and better teachers. What they have is a well supported cohort that largely lacks kids who are far behind. My kid attended a Title I school. The teachers were great. The programs were great. The thing that wasn't great was having a significant number of ESOL kids, kids with behavior issues, and kids who were more than 2 grade levels behind in every classroom. The teachers did their best, but there's a limit to the education that can be provided to an average or above average kid when the teacher has so many kids with very high needs.

By far the best year my kid had was the one random year in upper elementary where the class size was 18 kids rather than the usual 26-28 kids. It made a huge difference in the teacher's ability to handle the kids with more extreme needs while still being attentive to the above average kids.

[Anonymous]

12:51 PP here. From my kid's experience in the Title I school, I think the biggest thing holding back the lower SES schools is the huge number of ESOL kids integrated in the regular classrooms. There were a decent number of kids who entered the system in 4th, 5th, or 6th grade without speaking a word of English. Plopping them in a regular classroom with intermittent visits to the ESOL teacher did not work for anyone.

Many of the kids who didn't speak any English were the most disruptive ones in the class because they couldn't understand instructions or were frustrated all of the time. The teacher had to devote the lion's share of her time to helping kids who were effectively at a K level in 6th grade. All of these kids ended up in the specialized ESOL programs for 7th and 8th grade, where they finally got the support they needed.

Lower SES schools would be helped tremendously if ESOL kids weren't integrated into regular classrooms until they were proficient enough with English to function in regular classrooms.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I'd improve funding for Young Scholars and update the selection criteria to identify kids who need the help. Kids who are FARMS, are lower middle class but not FARMS, have parents who do not have college degrees, have only one parent figure in their lives, or are part of a historically repressed group (people of Native American or Native Central/South American ancestry and people of African American ancestry - not including white Hispanics or Black Immigrants) would be the kids I would target for extra programming. I'd probably include refugees in the repressed people group. Free after school tutoring, summer programs, and ECs would be a part of the program.

The only true solution, though, is to lift people out of poverty. Our country lacks the will to do so, and instead would rather slap a band-aid on this gaping wound. Letting a handful more black kids into elite magnet programs gives people the warm fuzzies, but it doesn't do anything to address the deep problems causing the achievement gap.

We can improve funding and programs all we want, but the schools that these kids attend will continue to be the schools that everyone else is desperate to avoid. And as history has shown in these kinds of schools, like the case of DCPS, no amount of funding seems to be enough to lift those kids out of their poverty when they continue to be isolated into highly concentrated, very low-performing schools.

Financial support can help them but cannot change their life if they don’t have the self motivation and execution. Sending them to TJ also cannot change their life. Staying at the bottom of TJ is nothing good for them.

So glad you know what’s best for them. Yes, don’t waste a precious spot at TJ on them since you in all of your almighty knowledge say they don’t have the “self motivation and execution”. How would you know this for each individual child??? Hmmm. A stereotype. Kind of like the Asian parenting stereotypes. Interesting . . .

PP who suggested improving Young Scholars and trying to lift people out of poverty, here. I honestly don't think a precious spot at TJ should be wasted on a kid who has not demonstrated any particular self motivation or execution. Admitting kids to TJ who do not have the academic capacity for TJ is just setting them up for failure. But that's precisely why I want to improve Young Scholars, improve the lower SES middle schools, and try to lift people out of poverty. At least if the funding and programming is there for the lower SES kids, they have a much more fair chance to develop the academic skills they need and demonstrate their self motivation. Whether or not any individual kids rise to the occasion is up to them, but at least we're giving them a chance.

They already do this. TJ current students already do tutoring and support specifically focused on schools/areas that are less represented

Here is what I would do

Eliminate AAP from the top 1/3 of schools. Those kids have a high enough cohort at their base to be challenged.
Have AAP be an elite program for kids in the bottom 2/3 of schools. Less than 5% of kids total ideally more like 1%

TJ Admissions would be anyone in the AAP program and then kids who have the best scores after that.

These ideas are pretty awful. I mean, I want to be polite, but they're quite frankly idiotic. I honestly can't believe that anyone thought this was reasonable and put it out there. You should feel embarrassed.

-The top 1/3 of schools may have a large cohort of 90th percentile plus kids. But they also have a sizable cohort of 99.9th percentile kids. The top 1-2% at any school will have needs that cannot be met in a general cohort. You're basically suggesting that the IQ 120 kids at low SES schools need an extra special program, but the IQ 145+ kids would be finehe face of all gifted research, but hey. Who cares about the kids who are actually gifted when they ruin your political agenda, right? AAP should be reduced in size to the top 5% at each school. Those are the kids who will be outliers in regular classrooms even in the high SES schools.

-Virginia has a gifted mandate. The state requires that gifted kids be given gifted services. Your solution is in violation of the law.

-AAP is also an advanced curriculum. Are you suggesting that the top kids at the high SES schools should not have access to a curriculum appropriate to their academic level? Are you going to keep them out of advanced math or 7th grade Algebra, which are largely accessed through AAP, while you're at it?

-Making it nearly impossible for kids from high SES schools to attend TJ is idiotic, especially since the most highly gifted kids tend to come from such schools. It's also blatantly racist and unfair. Did you really think people wouldn't notice that the schools you're denying AAP and a fair shot at TJ are the ones with high concentrations of Asian kids? All kids across FCPS should have equal opportunity to demonstrate their abilities and access the magnet program based on those demonstrated abilities, especially when the magnet program is the only way in FCPS to access many advanced math and science classes, and especially when there are at least some gifted kids in the "TJ feeder" schools who literally cannot have their needs met without access to those advanced classes.

-Since TJ is a governor's school, it must admit certain numbers of kids from LCPS, APS, PW Schools, etc. Those schools don't have AAP and thus can't be admitted based on AAP status. In light of this, you would most likely drive educated, affluent people out of Fairfax.

-If you water down TJ the way you propose, it will soon become just like any regular high school. The advanced course offerings will disappear when there isn't a sufficient enough cohort to take them. The expensive labs will be pointless if the kids are topping out at the same Honors and AP classes that would have been available at their local schools.

With all due respect you are a moron

Kids at the 99.9th percentile should be skipping multiple grades including going to college early. The majority of students aren't actually gifted they are just smart and will be served in a regular classroom at a top school surrounded by other smart kids. My proposal identifies gifted kids attending poor home school environments which is the best bang for the buck and society at large

The kids at the 1/3 best schools can have the AAP curriculum be the general classroom curriculum

Can you do math at all moron, I'm proposing actually gifted levels for AP for the bottom 2/3 of school. The majority of the TJ class will be filled by smart (but not gifted) kids attending the better schools while also including gifted kids from the lower 2/3 schools best of both worlds.

Try and think before you post next time

AAP isn't even GT. Anyone can buy entry with a private evaluation. It's mostly just a way to keep segregation alive.

If somebody bought the AAP entry with a private evaluation and can maintain straight A with all AAP/HN courses, plus continuously getting STEM EC awards, that's still good.
private evaluation is not fake evaluation.
In this country, as long the students are doing good, they'll be seen.

The reality is that AAP itself is not that hard (TJ is a different story) and above average kids can do very well in AAP without being “gifted.” People “buying” their way into AAP perpetuates the structural inequities and creates issues such as the lack of diversity at TJ. Wealthier folks can buy their 120iq kid into AAP, where as a 129iq URM may not get in AAP through the process and can’t afford to “buy” their way in. So the 120 kid gets better instruction and acceleration and is more prepared when it is time to get into TJ. Not more intelligent or more appropriate for TJ, just more prepared because the advantage of AAP that their parents bought prepared them. The 129 kid is bright but never gets accelerated because that isn’t prioritized at their school, their parents don’t know to ask/push, or the school doesn’t have enough kids to fill an accelerated class. So in 8th grade, the 129 kid, who on pure IQ alone, is more qualified does not get in because that intelligence has not been nurtured.

These are the issues FCPS is attempting to fix. I agree, the fix was a poor attempt.

I doubt there are any schools where a 129 IQ URM can't get into AAP. The AAP equity report showed that FCPS went quite far in the other direction, where pretty much every 115 IQ URM got in. I know of 3 different URMs who had the AAP red carpet rolled out for them with sub 120 CogAT scores and okay, but not great, academic performance. Schools are instructed to look out for any URM showing any potential. They are instructed to use teacher referrals if the parents don't refer. I'm not saying that this is a bad thing. Letting URMs into AAP who show potential is likely a net positive for everyone. It's just not factually correct to say that in the last 6+ years, high ability URMs are being shut out of AAP. They're actually being admitted with significantly lower test scores than white and Asian kids.

Here's the equity report:
https://go.boarddocs.com/vsba/fairfax/Board.nsf/files/BPLQKV69B096/$file/FCPS%20final%20report%2005.05.20.pdf

That is great news! I never know whether to believe these FCPS reports but it’s the only data we have, so I guess I do.

It sounds like the identification is decent. So how do those AAP programs compare to somewhere like Longfellow? That is the next issue FCPS would need to tackle is getting the AAP programs in the underrepresented schools up to a decent standard. A program in name only will not help anyone. When my own kid was in AAP, there were huge differences between schools and programs and the savvy parents knew how to get into the good ones.

School zones are different. Parents in different school zones are also different. There are something that you cannot expect to change immediately by offering fundings. Wealth is not the key for intelligence.

Wealth is not the key to intelligence but it is correlated with academic achievement. Most of the kids in AAP are not extremely intelligent. They are above average with a lot of support. High SES schools provide an tremendous advantage. If you don’t believe me, I ask why you send your kid to a high SES school not a low one. You can keep blaming low SES kids and assume your kids are high achieving only because they are smart and work hard, but it is just not borne out by the data. There is a reason people rent and buy the cheapest house to get into the “good” school districts. We all know that is true.

The schools in and of themselves do not provide any particular benefit. The high SES schools do not have stronger programs and better teachers. What they have is a well supported cohort that largely lacks kids who are far behind. My kid attended a Title I school. The teachers were great. The programs were great. The thing that wasn't great was having a significant number of ESOL kids, kids with behavior issues, and kids who were more than 2 grade levels behind in every classroom. The teachers did their best, but there's a limit to the education that can be provided to an average or above average kid when the teacher has so many kids with very high needs.

By far the best year my kid had was the one random year in upper elementary where the class size was 18 kids rather than the usual 26-28 kids. It made a huge difference in the teacher's ability to handle the kids with more extreme needs while still being attentive to the above average kids.

Agree. I feel like that is why those schools need more resources, additional programs, smaller class sizes, etc. The schools tend to not hve the same high parent involvement and the higher educated and resourced cohort so the school needs to make up for that if we want to actually change anything for lower SES kids. You can’t expect these kids to make it to TJ without extra support from the beginning. My kids have been at both types of schools and the difference is readily apparent.

The reality is that there are several parents in this thread that don’t care about anyone else’s kid as long as their kid is getting the best stuff and as many of the common resources as possible. In the end, that is not good for the district and society as a whole. It’s a recipe for class warfare. But as long as folks in this thread’s kids get into MIT or UVA or whatever, they are content. Just don’t change the zero sum equation until their kids get out of FCPS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I'd improve funding for Young Scholars and update the selection criteria to identify kids who need the help. Kids who are FARMS, are lower middle class but not FARMS, have parents who do not have college degrees, have only one parent figure in their lives, or are part of a historically repressed group (people of Native American or Native Central/South American ancestry and people of African American ancestry - not including white Hispanics or Black Immigrants) would be the kids I would target for extra programming. I'd probably include refugees in the repressed people group. Free after school tutoring, summer programs, and ECs would be a part of the program.

The only true solution, though, is to lift people out of poverty. Our country lacks the will to do so, and instead would rather slap a band-aid on this gaping wound. Letting a handful more black kids into elite magnet programs gives people the warm fuzzies, but it doesn't do anything to address the deep problems causing the achievement gap.

We can improve funding and programs all we want, but the schools that these kids attend will continue to be the schools that everyone else is desperate to avoid. And as history has shown in these kinds of schools, like the case of DCPS, no amount of funding seems to be enough to lift those kids out of their poverty when they continue to be isolated into highly concentrated, very low-performing schools.

Financial support can help them but cannot change their life if they don’t have the self motivation and execution. Sending them to TJ also cannot change their life. Staying at the bottom of TJ is nothing good for them.

So glad you know what’s best for them. Yes, don’t waste a precious spot at TJ on them since you in all of your almighty knowledge say they don’t have the “self motivation and execution”. How would you know this for each individual child??? Hmmm. A stereotype. Kind of like the Asian parenting stereotypes. Interesting . . .

PP who suggested improving Young Scholars and trying to lift people out of poverty, here. I honestly don't think a precious spot at TJ should be wasted on a kid who has not demonstrated any particular self motivation or execution. Admitting kids to TJ who do not have the academic capacity for TJ is just setting them up for failure. But that's precisely why I want to improve Young Scholars, improve the lower SES middle schools, and try to lift people out of poverty. At least if the funding and programming is there for the lower SES kids, they have a much more fair chance to develop the academic skills they need and demonstrate their self motivation. Whether or not any individual kids rise to the occasion is up to them, but at least we're giving them a chance.

They already do this. TJ current students already do tutoring and support specifically focused on schools/areas that are less represented

Here is what I would do

Eliminate AAP from the top 1/3 of schools. Those kids have a high enough cohort at their base to be challenged.
Have AAP be an elite program for kids in the bottom 2/3 of schools. Less than 5% of kids total ideally more like 1%

TJ Admissions would be anyone in the AAP program and then kids who have the best scores after that.

These ideas are pretty awful. I mean, I want to be polite, but they're quite frankly idiotic. I honestly can't believe that anyone thought this was reasonable and put it out there. You should feel embarrassed.

-The top 1/3 of schools may have a large cohort of 90th percentile plus kids. But they also have a sizable cohort of 99.9th percentile kids. The top 1-2% at any school will have needs that cannot be met in a general cohort. You're basically suggesting that the IQ 120 kids at low SES schools need an extra special program, but the IQ 145+ kids would be finehe face of all gifted research, but hey. Who cares about the kids who are actually gifted when they ruin your political agenda, right? AAP should be reduced in size to the top 5% at each school. Those are the kids who will be outliers in regular classrooms even in the high SES schools.

-Virginia has a gifted mandate. The state requires that gifted kids be given gifted services. Your solution is in violation of the law.

-AAP is also an advanced curriculum. Are you suggesting that the top kids at the high SES schools should not have access to a curriculum appropriate to their academic level? Are you going to keep them out of advanced math or 7th grade Algebra, which are largely accessed through AAP, while you're at it?

-Making it nearly impossible for kids from high SES schools to attend TJ is idiotic, especially since the most highly gifted kids tend to come from such schools. It's also blatantly racist and unfair. Did you really think people wouldn't notice that the schools you're denying AAP and a fair shot at TJ are the ones with high concentrations of Asian kids? All kids across FCPS should have equal opportunity to demonstrate their abilities and access the magnet program based on those demonstrated abilities, especially when the magnet program is the only way in FCPS to access many advanced math and science classes, and especially when there are at least some gifted kids in the "TJ feeder" schools who literally cannot have their needs met without access to those advanced classes.

-Since TJ is a governor's school, it must admit certain numbers of kids from LCPS, APS, PW Schools, etc. Those schools don't have AAP and thus can't be admitted based on AAP status. In light of this, you would most likely drive educated, affluent people out of Fairfax.

-If you water down TJ the way you propose, it will soon become just like any regular high school. The advanced course offerings will disappear when there isn't a sufficient enough cohort to take them. The expensive labs will be pointless if the kids are topping out at the same Honors and AP classes that would have been available at their local schools.

With all due respect you are a moron

Kids at the 99.9th percentile should be skipping multiple grades including going to college early. The majority of students aren't actually gifted they are just smart and will be served in a regular classroom at a top school surrounded by other smart kids. My proposal identifies gifted kids attending poor home school environments which is the best bang for the buck and society at large

The kids at the 1/3 best schools can have the AAP curriculum be the general classroom curriculum

Can you do math at all moron, I'm proposing actually gifted levels for AP for the bottom 2/3 of school. The majority of the TJ class will be filled by smart (but not gifted) kids attending the better schools while also including gifted kids from the lower 2/3 schools best of both worlds.

Try and think before you post next time

AAP isn't even GT. Anyone can buy entry with a private evaluation. It's mostly just a way to keep segregation alive.

If somebody bought the AAP entry with a private evaluation and can maintain straight A with all AAP/HN courses, plus continuously getting STEM EC awards, that's still good.
private evaluation is not fake evaluation.
In this country, as long the students are doing good, they'll be seen.

The reality is that AAP itself is not that hard (TJ is a different story) and above average kids can do very well in AAP without being “gifted.” People “buying” their way into AAP perpetuates the structural inequities and creates issues such as the lack of diversity at TJ. Wealthier folks can buy their 120iq kid into AAP, where as a 129iq URM may not get in AAP through the process and can’t afford to “buy” their way in. So the 120 kid gets better instruction and acceleration and is more prepared when it is time to get into TJ. Not more intelligent or more appropriate for TJ, just more prepared because the advantage of AAP that their parents bought prepared them. The 129 kid is bright but never gets accelerated because that isn’t prioritized at their school, their parents don’t know to ask/push, or the school doesn’t have enough kids to fill an accelerated class. So in 8th grade, the 129 kid, who on pure IQ alone, is more qualified does not get in because that intelligence has not been nurtured.

These are the issues FCPS is attempting to fix. I agree, the fix was a poor attempt.

I doubt there are any schools where a 129 IQ URM can't get into AAP. The AAP equity report showed that FCPS went quite far in the other direction, where pretty much every 115 IQ URM got in. I know of 3 different URMs who had the AAP red carpet rolled out for them with sub 120 CogAT scores and okay, but not great, academic performance. Schools are instructed to look out for any URM showing any potential. They are instructed to use teacher referrals if the parents don't refer. I'm not saying that this is a bad thing. Letting URMs into AAP who show potential is likely a net positive for everyone. It's just not factually correct to say that in the last 6+ years, high ability URMs are being shut out of AAP. They're actually being admitted with significantly lower test scores than white and Asian kids.

Here's the equity report:
https://go.boarddocs.com/vsba/fairfax/Board.nsf/files/BPLQKV69B096/$file/FCPS%20final%20report%2005.05.20.pdf

That is great news! I never know whether to believe these FCPS reports but it’s the only data we have, so I guess I do.

It sounds like the identification is decent. So how do those AAP programs compare to somewhere like Longfellow? That is the next issue FCPS would need to tackle is getting the AAP programs in the underrepresented schools up to a decent standard. A program in name only will not help anyone. When my own kid was in AAP, there were huge differences between schools and programs and the savvy parents knew how to get into the good ones.

School zones are different. Parents in different school zones are also different. There are something that you cannot expect to change immediately by offering fundings. Wealth is not the key for intelligence.

Wealth is not the key to intelligence but it is correlated with academic achievement. Most of the kids in AAP are not extremely intelligent. They are above average with a lot of support. High SES schools provide an tremendous advantage. If you don’t believe me, I ask why you send your kid to a high SES school not a low one. You can keep blaming low SES kids and assume your kids are high achieving only because they are smart and work hard, but it is just not borne out by the data. There is a reason people rent and buy the cheapest house to get into the “good” school districts. We all know that is true.

The schools in and of themselves do not provide any particular benefit. The high SES schools do not have stronger programs and better teachers. What they have is a well supported cohort that largely lacks kids who are far behind. My kid attended a Title I school. The teachers were great. The programs were great. The thing that wasn't great was having a significant number of ESOL kids, kids with behavior issues, and kids who were more than 2 grade levels behind in every classroom. The teachers did their best, but there's a limit to the education that can be provided to an average or above average kid when the teacher has so many kids with very high needs.

By far the best year my kid had was the one random year in upper elementary where the class size was 18 kids rather than the usual 26-28 kids. It made a huge difference in the teacher's ability to handle the kids with more extreme needs while still being attentive to the above average kids.

Agree. I feel like that is why those schools need more resources, additional programs, smaller class sizes, etc. The schools tend to not hve the same high parent involvement and the higher educated and resourced cohort so the school needs to make up for that if we want to actually change anything for lower SES kids. You can’t expect these kids to make it to TJ without extra support from the beginning. My kids have been at both types of schools and the difference is readily apparent.

Quoted PP here. Honestly, there already is a lot of support at the Title I schools. I have no doubt that even in the old system, a gifted, motivated kid at a Title I school would easily get into AAP, do well in the program, and then have a reasonable shot at TJ. My kid got pass advanced on all SOLs, a 98th percentile score on IAAT, and straight As in all MS AAP classes after spending K-6th in a Title I gen ed program. Had they wanted to attend TJ, they would have had a decent shot at getting in.

I also have no doubt that the bright kids from lower SES schools will lose out to the equally or even less bright kids from high SES schools. Smaller class sizes, a solution for ESOL, and extra mentorship would go a long way toward leveling the playing field. Yes, Title I schools already have smaller class sizes in general, but they're still larger than you might imagine. My kid's 6th grade class at a title I school had 28 kids, 8 of them being ESOL kids who barely spoke any English. Many high SES schools have much smaller class sizes without also having a bunch of high needs kids in the classroom.

Strong mentorship is also really important. There is a cultural and SES component to motivation. A lot of non-Asian low income kids effectively have low motivation because they don't have pushing them or showing them why education matters or where a good education could take them. A good mentorship program could compensate for parents' inability to motivate their kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I'd improve funding for Young Scholars and update the selection criteria to identify kids who need the help. Kids who are FARMS, are lower middle class but not FARMS, have parents who do not have college degrees, have only one parent figure in their lives, or are part of a historically repressed group (people of Native American or Native Central/South American ancestry and people of African American ancestry - not including white Hispanics or Black Immigrants) would be the kids I would target for extra programming. I'd probably include refugees in the repressed people group. Free after school tutoring, summer programs, and ECs would be a part of the program.

The only true solution, though, is to lift people out of poverty. Our country lacks the will to do so, and instead would rather slap a band-aid on this gaping wound. Letting a handful more black kids into elite magnet programs gives people the warm fuzzies, but it doesn't do anything to address the deep problems causing the achievement gap.

We can improve funding and programs all we want, but the schools that these kids attend will continue to be the schools that everyone else is desperate to avoid. And as history has shown in these kinds of schools, like the case of DCPS, no amount of funding seems to be enough to lift those kids out of their poverty when they continue to be isolated into highly concentrated, very low-performing schools.

Financial support can help them but cannot change their life if they don’t have the self motivation and execution. Sending them to TJ also cannot change their life. Staying at the bottom of TJ is nothing good for them.

So glad you know what’s best for them. Yes, don’t waste a precious spot at TJ on them since you in all of your almighty knowledge say they don’t have the “self motivation and execution”. How would you know this for each individual child??? Hmmm. A stereotype. Kind of like the Asian parenting stereotypes. Interesting . . .

PP who suggested improving Young Scholars and trying to lift people out of poverty, here. I honestly don't think a precious spot at TJ should be wasted on a kid who has not demonstrated any particular self motivation or execution. Admitting kids to TJ who do not have the academic capacity for TJ is just setting them up for failure. But that's precisely why I want to improve Young Scholars, improve the lower SES middle schools, and try to lift people out of poverty. At least if the funding and programming is there for the lower SES kids, they have a much more fair chance to develop the academic skills they need and demonstrate their self motivation. Whether or not any individual kids rise to the occasion is up to them, but at least we're giving them a chance.

They already do this. TJ current students already do tutoring and support specifically focused on schools/areas that are less represented

Here is what I would do

Eliminate AAP from the top 1/3 of schools. Those kids have a high enough cohort at their base to be challenged.
Have AAP be an elite program for kids in the bottom 2/3 of schools. Less than 5% of kids total ideally more like 1%

TJ Admissions would be anyone in the AAP program and then kids who have the best scores after that.

These ideas are pretty awful. I mean, I want to be polite, but they're quite frankly idiotic. I honestly can't believe that anyone thought this was reasonable and put it out there. You should feel embarrassed.

-The top 1/3 of schools may have a large cohort of 90th percentile plus kids. But they also have a sizable cohort of 99.9th percentile kids. The top 1-2% at any school will have needs that cannot be met in a general cohort. You're basically suggesting that the IQ 120 kids at low SES schools need an extra special program, but the IQ 145+ kids would be finehe face of all gifted research, but hey. Who cares about the kids who are actually gifted when they ruin your political agenda, right? AAP should be reduced in size to the top 5% at each school. Those are the kids who will be outliers in regular classrooms even in the high SES schools.

-Virginia has a gifted mandate. The state requires that gifted kids be given gifted services. Your solution is in violation of the law.

-AAP is also an advanced curriculum. Are you suggesting that the top kids at the high SES schools should not have access to a curriculum appropriate to their academic level? Are you going to keep them out of advanced math or 7th grade Algebra, which are largely accessed through AAP, while you're at it?

-Making it nearly impossible for kids from high SES schools to attend TJ is idiotic, especially since the most highly gifted kids tend to come from such schools. It's also blatantly racist and unfair. Did you really think people wouldn't notice that the schools you're denying AAP and a fair shot at TJ are the ones with high concentrations of Asian kids? All kids across FCPS should have equal opportunity to demonstrate their abilities and access the magnet program based on those demonstrated abilities, especially when the magnet program is the only way in FCPS to access many advanced math and science classes, and especially when there are at least some gifted kids in the "TJ feeder" schools who literally cannot have their needs met without access to those advanced classes.

-Since TJ is a governor's school, it must admit certain numbers of kids from LCPS, APS, PW Schools, etc. Those schools don't have AAP and thus can't be admitted based on AAP status. In light of this, you would most likely drive educated, affluent people out of Fairfax.

-If you water down TJ the way you propose, it will soon become just like any regular high school. The advanced course offerings will disappear when there isn't a sufficient enough cohort to take them. The expensive labs will be pointless if the kids are topping out at the same Honors and AP classes that would have been available at their local schools.

With all due respect you are a moron

Kids at the 99.9th percentile should be skipping multiple grades including going to college early. The majority of students aren't actually gifted they are just smart and will be served in a regular classroom at a top school surrounded by other smart kids. My proposal identifies gifted kids attending poor home school environments which is the best bang for the buck and society at large

The kids at the 1/3 best schools can have the AAP curriculum be the general classroom curriculum

Can you do math at all moron, I'm proposing actually gifted levels for AP for the bottom 2/3 of school. The majority of the TJ class will be filled by smart (but not gifted) kids attending the better schools while also including gifted kids from the lower 2/3 schools best of both worlds.

Try and think before you post next time

AAP isn't even GT. Anyone can buy entry with a private evaluation. It's mostly just a way to keep segregation alive.

If somebody bought the AAP entry with a private evaluation and can maintain straight A with all AAP/HN courses, plus continuously getting STEM EC awards, that's still good.
private evaluation is not fake evaluation.
In this country, as long the students are doing good, they'll be seen.

The reality is that AAP itself is not that hard (TJ is a different story) and above average kids can do very well in AAP without being “gifted.” People “buying” their way into AAP perpetuates the structural inequities and creates issues such as the lack of diversity at TJ. Wealthier folks can buy their 120iq kid into AAP, where as a 129iq URM may not get in AAP through the process and can’t afford to “buy” their way in. So the 120 kid gets better instruction and acceleration and is more prepared when it is time to get into TJ. Not more intelligent or more appropriate for TJ, just more prepared because the advantage of AAP that their parents bought prepared them. The 129 kid is bright but never gets accelerated because that isn’t prioritized at their school, their parents don’t know to ask/push, or the school doesn’t have enough kids to fill an accelerated class. So in 8th grade, the 129 kid, who on pure IQ alone, is more qualified does not get in because that intelligence has not been nurtured.

These are the issues FCPS is attempting to fix. I agree, the fix was a poor attempt.

I doubt there are any schools where a 129 IQ URM can't get into AAP. The AAP equity report showed that FCPS went quite far in the other direction, where pretty much every 115 IQ URM got in. I know of 3 different URMs who had the AAP red carpet rolled out for them with sub 120 CogAT scores and okay, but not great, academic performance. Schools are instructed to look out for any URM showing any potential. They are instructed to use teacher referrals if the parents don't refer. I'm not saying that this is a bad thing. Letting URMs into AAP who show potential is likely a net positive for everyone. It's just not factually correct to say that in the last 6+ years, high ability URMs are being shut out of AAP. They're actually being admitted with significantly lower test scores than white and Asian kids.

Here's the equity report:
https://go.boarddocs.com/vsba/fairfax/Board.nsf/files/BPLQKV69B096/$file/FCPS%20final%20report%2005.05.20.pdf

That is great news! I never know whether to believe these FCPS reports but it’s the only data we have, so I guess I do.

It sounds like the identification is decent. So how do those AAP programs compare to somewhere like Longfellow? That is the next issue FCPS would need to tackle is getting the AAP programs in the underrepresented schools up to a decent standard. A program in name only will not help anyone. When my own kid was in AAP, there were huge differences between schools and programs and the savvy parents knew how to get into the good ones.

School zones are different. Parents in different school zones are also different. There are something that you cannot expect to change immediately by offering fundings. Wealth is not the key for intelligence.

Wealth is not the key to intelligence but it is correlated with academic achievement. Most of the kids in AAP are not extremely intelligent. They are above average with a lot of support. High SES schools provide an tremendous advantage. If you don’t believe me, I ask why you send your kid to a high SES school not a low one. You can keep blaming low SES kids and assume your kids are high achieving only because they are smart and work hard, but it is just not borne out by the data. There is a reason people rent and buy the cheapest house to get into the “good” school districts. We all know that is true.

The schools in and of themselves do not provide any particular benefit. The high SES schools do not have stronger programs and better teachers. What they have is a well supported cohort that largely lacks kids who are far behind. My kid attended a Title I school. The teachers were great. The programs were great. The thing that wasn't great was having a significant number of ESOL kids, kids with behavior issues, and kids who were more than 2 grade levels behind in every classroom. The teachers did their best, but there's a limit to the education that can be provided to an average or above average kid when the teacher has so many kids with very high needs.

By far the best year my kid had was the one random year in upper elementary where the class size was 18 kids rather than the usual 26-28 kids. It made a huge difference in the teacher's ability to handle the kids with more extreme needs while still being attentive to the above average kids.

Agree. I feel like that is why those schools need more resources, additional programs, smaller class sizes, etc. The schools tend to not hve the same high parent involvement and the higher educated and resourced cohort so the school needs to make up for that if we want to actually change anything for lower SES kids. You can’t expect these kids to make it to TJ without extra support from the beginning. My kids have been at both types of schools and the difference is readily apparent.

Quoted PP here. Honestly, there already is a lot of support at the Title I schools. I have no doubt that even in the old system, a gifted, motivated kid at a Title I school would easily get into AAP, do well in the program, and then have a reasonable shot at TJ. My kid got pass advanced on all SOLs, a 98th percentile score on IAAT, and straight As in all MS AAP classes after spending K-6th in a Title I gen ed program. Had they wanted to attend TJ, they would have had a decent shot at getting in.

I also have no doubt that the bright kids from lower SES schools will lose out to the equally or even less bright kids from high SES schools. Smaller class sizes, a solution for ESOL, and extra mentorship would go a long way toward leveling the playing field. Yes, Title I schools already have smaller class sizes in general, but they're still larger than you might imagine. My kid's 6th grade class at a title I school had 28 kids, 8 of them being ESOL kids who barely spoke any English. Many high SES schools have much smaller class sizes without also having a bunch of high needs kids in the classroom.

Strong mentorship is also really important. There is a cultural and SES component to motivation. A lot of non-Asian low income kids effectively have low motivation because they don't have pushing them or showing them why education matters or where a good education could take them. A good mentorship program could compensate for parents' inability to motivate their kids.

I don't think our system encourages motivation and hardworking. Instead, it encourages gain without paying efforts.

[Anonymous]

PP, I disagree. Entrepreneurship is definitely worshipped in the US.

The people who get ahead work for it. The issue is some of the ones who start on third base think they hit a triple and look down on those that may need some help to make up for disadvantages.

[Anonymous]

Getting back to the original post…

I hope the people who lied are kicked out!

I can’t believe the thread has turned into what the schools have done wrong, when it’s actually about parents who lied about being poor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Getting back to the original post…

I hope the people who lied are kicked out!

I can’t believe the thread has turned into what the schools have done wrong, when it’s actually about parents who lied about being poor.

we need some leadership here. all I see is a bunch of squabbling idiots.