More MOCO Upzoning - Starting in Silver Spring

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Imagine if you NIMBYs spent more time voting and less time arguing online. You lost, get over it. Cities need to grow, you aren't entitled to your "home value" or whatever else nonsense you come up with.

Move to some generic suburb and leave the cool cities for us please.

This thread is about MoCo, where YIMBYs have delivered declining growth and skyrocketing housing costs. Is the problem that YIMBYism doesn’t actually deliver on its promises or are our YIMBYs just really incompetent?

Dude every housing development is held up in years of litigation for "environmental" reasons. MoCO is nowhere near the top when it comes to new housing per capita.

Are you a troll account or just misinformed?

No, very few are held up in litigation. That’s a myth. There are two things that hold up development. One is the slow planning process. We have that to entertain the bureaucrats and so that the land use lawyers can run up higher bills. The bigger thing is the developers themselves. They get their plans approved and then they don’t build because they’re concerned the market is soft. When developers say they can’t get financing, that’s code for “if I build this right now, prices will go down, and obviously we can’t have that.” I’d wager that there are more requests to extend plan validity granted each year in Montgomery County than there lawsuits, let alone successful lawsuits.

Yes, so we need types of housing to be allowed to be build so more people can build them. What don't you understand? Young people won't want to live in generic, poorly built suburb houses with ugly lawns. This is why prices continue to go up.

Please look at what New Zealand did and how dramatically it lowered rent growth.

Nimby's gonna nimby!

Some will. Some won't. It would be good if the full range of housing types were allowed by zoning.

They are, that's why we have zoning. Are the townhomes and condos in the area imaginary? What you are saying is that all types should be allowed everywhere, and that's silly.

No, they aren't. We have attached and detached single family buildings. And we have large and very large multifamily buildings. But we don't have small multifamily buildings. The zoning code doesn't allow it.

You mean that you can’t build small apartment buildings by right in SFH neighborhoods, which is what this entire thread is about.

"With particular reference to apartment houses, it is pointed out that the development of detached house sections is greatly r******d by the coming of apartment houses, which has sometimes resulted in destroying the entire section for private house purposes; that, in such sections, very often the apartment house is a mere parasite, constructed in order to take advantage of the open spaces and attractive surroundings created by the residential character of the district. Moreover, the coming of one apartment house is followed by others, interfering by their height and bulk with the free circulation of air and monopolizing the rays of the sun which otherwise would fall upon the smaller homes, and bringing, as their necessary accompaniments, the disturbing noises incident to increased traffic and business, and the occupation, by means of moving and parked automobiles, of larger portions of the streets, thus detracting from their safety and depriving children of the privilege of quiet and open spaces for play, enjoyed by those in more favored localities -- until, finally, the residential character of the neighborhood and its desirability as a place of detached residences are utterly destroyed. Under these circumstances, apartment houses, which in a different environment would be not only entirely unobjectionable but highly desirable, come very near to being nuisances."

From Village of Euclid v. Ambler Realty Co., 272 U.S. 365 (1926). That's what you're saying.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Imagine if you NIMBYs spent more time voting and less time arguing online. You lost, get over it. Cities need to grow, you aren't entitled to your "home value" or whatever else nonsense you come up with.

Move to some generic suburb and leave the cool cities for us please.

This thread is about MoCo, where YIMBYs have delivered declining growth and skyrocketing housing costs. Is the problem that YIMBYism doesn’t actually deliver on its promises or are our YIMBYs just really incompetent?

Dude every housing development is held up in years of litigation for "environmental" reasons. MoCO is nowhere near the top when it comes to new housing per capita.

Are you a troll account or just misinformed?

No, very few are held up in litigation. That’s a myth. There are two things that hold up development. One is the slow planning process. We have that to entertain the bureaucrats and so that the land use lawyers can run up higher bills. The bigger thing is the developers themselves. They get their plans approved and then they don’t build because they’re concerned the market is soft. When developers say they can’t get financing, that’s code for “if I build this right now, prices will go down, and obviously we can’t have that.” I’d wager that there are more requests to extend plan validity granted each year in Montgomery County than there lawsuits, let alone successful lawsuits.

Yes, so we need types of housing to be allowed to be build so more people can build them. What don't you understand? Young people won't want to live in generic, poorly built suburb houses with ugly lawns. This is why prices continue to go up.

Please look at what New Zealand did and how dramatically it lowered rent growth.

Nimby's gonna nimby!

Some will. Some won't. It would be good if the full range of housing types were allowed by zoning.

They are, that's why we have zoning. Are the townhomes and condos in the area imaginary? What you are saying is that all types should be allowed everywhere, and that's silly.

No, they aren't. We have attached and detached single family buildings. And we have large and very large multifamily buildings. But we don't have small multifamily buildings. The zoning code doesn't allow it.

Allowing small multifamily in single family residential zoned areas of MOCO is a handout to developers & wealthy real estate investors disguised as an affordable housing agenda. It would effectively increase the allowable density in vast portions of the county by 4-8x. We don't have room for this many additional drivers on our roads or students in our schools. Developers should not be allowed to redevelop neighborhoods by-right and quadruple density while forcing county taxpayers to absorb the entire cost of infrastructure improvements and new schools. These YIMBY orgs are funded by special interest groups (real estate developers, construction industry) that want to eliminate zoning altogether. This is not an organic movement with broad public support and it is primarily driven by full-time salaried psuedo-lobbyists that work for non-profits. They are working on behalf of special interest groups to boost their profits and they don't care how it impacts communities. YIMBYs want to circumvent the democratic process and eliminate local community control over the zoning process to force a one-size fits all solution on the entire country. Do not fall for their lies, they will destroy your neighborhoods to benefit wealthy special interest groups.

The what now? Here is who has control over the zoning process: the Montgomery County Planning Board, and the Montgomery County Council.

Here is who doesn't: the Kemp Mill Civic Association, the Upper Sligo Civic Association, the Glenview Neighborhood Association, the Sligo Woods Civic Association, the Northwood Four Corners Civic Association...

Pretty sure that poster said that they WANT TO. They would love to have their housing Scientology spread at the state and federal level, that way they don’t have to worry about pesky community involvement at all.

How dare the resident of the those neighborhood associations care about their neighborhoods! All hail the planning commission!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Imagine if you NIMBYs spent more time voting and less time arguing online. You lost, get over it. Cities need to grow, you aren't entitled to your "home value" or whatever else nonsense you come up with.

Move to some generic suburb and leave the cool cities for us please.

This thread is about MoCo, where YIMBYs have delivered declining growth and skyrocketing housing costs. Is the problem that YIMBYism doesn’t actually deliver on its promises or are our YIMBYs just really incompetent?

Dude every housing development is held up in years of litigation for "environmental" reasons. MoCO is nowhere near the top when it comes to new housing per capita.

Are you a troll account or just misinformed?

No, very few are held up in litigation. That’s a myth. There are two things that hold up development. One is the slow planning process. We have that to entertain the bureaucrats and so that the land use lawyers can run up higher bills. The bigger thing is the developers themselves. They get their plans approved and then they don’t build because they’re concerned the market is soft. When developers say they can’t get financing, that’s code for “if I build this right now, prices will go down, and obviously we can’t have that.” I’d wager that there are more requests to extend plan validity granted each year in Montgomery County than there lawsuits, let alone successful lawsuits.

Yes, so we need types of housing to be allowed to be build so more people can build them. What don't you understand? Young people won't want to live in generic, poorly built suburb houses with ugly lawns. This is why prices continue to go up.

Please look at what New Zealand did and how dramatically it lowered rent growth.

Nimby's gonna nimby!

Some will. Some won't. It would be good if the full range of housing types were allowed by zoning.

They are, that's why we have zoning. Are the townhomes and condos in the area imaginary? What you are saying is that all types should be allowed everywhere, and that's silly.

No, they aren't. We have attached and detached single family buildings. And we have large and very large multifamily buildings. But we don't have small multifamily buildings. The zoning code doesn't allow it.

Allowing small multifamily in single family residential zoned areas of MOCO is a handout to developers & wealthy real estate investors disguised as an affordable housing agenda. It would effectively increase the allowable density in vast portions of the county by 4-8x. We don't have room for this many additional drivers on our roads or students in our schools. Developers should not be allowed to redevelop neighborhoods by-right and quadruple density while forcing county taxpayers to absorb the entire cost of infrastructure improvements and new schools. These YIMBY orgs are funded by special interest groups (real estate developers, construction industry) that want to eliminate zoning altogether. This is not an organic movement with broad public support and it is primarily driven by full-time salaried psuedo-lobbyists that work for non-profits. They are working on behalf of special interest groups to boost their profits and they don't care how it impacts communities. YIMBYs want to circumvent the democratic process and eliminate local community control over the zoning process to force a one-size fits all solution on the entire country. Do not fall for their lies, they will destroy your neighborhoods to benefit wealthy special interest groups.

The what now? Here is who has control over the zoning process: the Montgomery County Planning Board, and the Montgomery County Council.

Here is who doesn't: the Kemp Mill Civic Association, the Upper Sligo Civic Association, the Glenview Neighborhood Association, the Sligo Woods Civic Association, the Northwood Four Corners Civic Association...

Pretty sure that poster said that they WANT TO. They would love to have their housing Scientology spread at the state and federal level, that way they don’t have to worry about pesky community involvement at all.

How dare the resident of the those neighborhood associations care about their neighborhoods! All hail the planning commission!

Eh? People can - and do - care about their neighborhoods without believing that they should have control over the zoning process.

The Planning Department has many, many events at which people can express their opinions and desires about their community.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Imagine if you NIMBYs spent more time voting and less time arguing online. You lost, get over it. Cities need to grow, you aren't entitled to your "home value" or whatever else nonsense you come up with.

Move to some generic suburb and leave the cool cities for us please.

This thread is about MoCo, where YIMBYs have delivered declining growth and skyrocketing housing costs. Is the problem that YIMBYism doesn’t actually deliver on its promises or are our YIMBYs just really incompetent?

Dude every housing development is held up in years of litigation for "environmental" reasons. MoCO is nowhere near the top when it comes to new housing per capita.

Are you a troll account or just misinformed?

No, very few are held up in litigation. That’s a myth. There are two things that hold up development. One is the slow planning process. We have that to entertain the bureaucrats and so that the land use lawyers can run up higher bills. The bigger thing is the developers themselves. They get their plans approved and then they don’t build because they’re concerned the market is soft. When developers say they can’t get financing, that’s code for “if I build this right now, prices will go down, and obviously we can’t have that.” I’d wager that there are more requests to extend plan validity granted each year in Montgomery County than there lawsuits, let alone successful lawsuits.

Yes, so we need types of housing to be allowed to be build so more people can build them. What don't you understand? Young people won't want to live in generic, poorly built suburb houses with ugly lawns. This is why prices continue to go up.

Please look at what New Zealand did and how dramatically it lowered rent growth.

Nimby's gonna nimby!

Some will. Some won't. It would be good if the full range of housing types were allowed by zoning.

They are, that's why we have zoning. Are the townhomes and condos in the area imaginary? What you are saying is that all types should be allowed everywhere, and that's silly.

No, they aren't. We have attached and detached single family buildings. And we have large and very large multifamily buildings. But we don't have small multifamily buildings. The zoning code doesn't allow it.

Allowing small multifamily in single family residential zoned areas of MOCO is a handout to developers & wealthy real estate investors disguised as an affordable housing agenda. It would effectively increase the allowable density in vast portions of the county by 4-8x. We don't have room for this many additional drivers on our roads or students in our schools. Developers should not be allowed to redevelop neighborhoods by-right and quadruple density while forcing county taxpayers to absorb the entire cost of infrastructure improvements and new schools. These YIMBY orgs are funded by special interest groups (real estate developers, construction industry) that want to eliminate zoning altogether. This is not an organic movement with broad public support and it is primarily driven by full-time salaried psuedo-lobbyists that work for non-profits. They are working on behalf of special interest groups to boost their profits and they don't care how it impacts communities. YIMBYs want to circumvent the democratic process and eliminate local community control over the zoning process to force a one-size fits all solution on the entire country. Do not fall for their lies, they will destroy your neighborhoods to benefit wealthy special interest groups.

The what now? Here is who has control over the zoning process: the Montgomery County Planning Board, and the Montgomery County Council.

Here is who doesn't: the Kemp Mill Civic Association, the Upper Sligo Civic Association, the Glenview Neighborhood Association, the Sligo Woods Civic Association, the Northwood Four Corners Civic Association...

Pretty sure that poster said that they WANT TO. They would love to have their housing Scientology spread at the state and federal level, that way they don’t have to worry about pesky community involvement at all.

How dare the resident of the those neighborhood associations care about their neighborhoods! All hail the planning commission!

The PPP doesn’t know what “local control” means. The Planning Board and County Council is “local control” and it’s factually true that a YIMBY policy priority is state and federal preemption of local zoning.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Imagine if you NIMBYs spent more time voting and less time arguing online. You lost, get over it. Cities need to grow, you aren't entitled to your "home value" or whatever else nonsense you come up with.

Move to some generic suburb and leave the cool cities for us please. :)

This thread is about MoCo, where YIMBYs have delivered declining growth and skyrocketing housing costs. Is the problem that YIMBYism doesn’t actually deliver on its promises or are our YIMBYs just really incompetent?

Dude every housing development is held up in years of litigation for "environmental" reasons. MoCO is nowhere near the top when it comes to new housing per capita.

Are you a troll account or just misinformed? :roll:

No, very few are held up in litigation. That’s a myth. There are two things that hold up development. One is the slow planning process. We have that to entertain the bureaucrats and so that the land use lawyers can run up higher bills. The bigger thing is the developers themselves. They get their plans approved and then they don’t build because they’re concerned the market is soft. When developers say they can’t get financing, that’s code for “if I build this right now, prices will go down, and obviously we can’t have that.” I’d wager that there are more requests to extend plan validity granted each year in Montgomery County than there lawsuits, let alone successful lawsuits.

Yes, so we need types of housing to be allowed to be build so more people can build them. What don't you understand? Young people won't want to live in generic, poorly built suburb houses with ugly lawns. This is why prices continue to go up.

Please look at what New Zealand did and how dramatically it lowered rent growth.

Nimby's gonna nimby!

Some will. Some won't. It would be good if the full range of housing types were allowed by zoning.

They are, that's why we have zoning. Are the townhomes and condos in the area imaginary? What you are saying is that all types should be allowed everywhere, and that's silly.

No, they aren't. We have attached and detached single family buildings. And we have large and very large multifamily buildings. But we don't have small multifamily buildings. The zoning code doesn't allow it.

Allowing small multifamily in single family residential zoned areas of MOCO is a handout to developers & wealthy real estate investors disguised as an affordable housing agenda. It would effectively increase the allowable density in vast portions of the county by 4-8x. We don't have room for this many additional drivers on our roads or students in our schools. Developers should not be allowed to redevelop neighborhoods by-right and quadruple density while forcing county taxpayers to absorb the entire cost of infrastructure improvements and new schools. These YIMBY orgs are funded by special interest groups (real estate developers, construction industry) that want to eliminate zoning altogether. This is not an organic movement with broad public support and it is primarily driven by full-time salaried psuedo-lobbyists that work for non-profits. They are working on behalf of special interest groups to boost their profits and they don't care how it impacts communities. YIMBYs want to circumvent the democratic process and eliminate local community control over the zoning process to force a one-size fits all solution on the entire country. Do not fall for their lies, they will destroy your neighborhoods to benefit wealthy special interest groups.

The what now? Here is who has control over the zoning process: the Montgomery County Planning Board, and the Montgomery County Council.

Here is who doesn't: the Kemp Mill Civic Association, the Upper Sligo Civic Association, the Glenview Neighborhood Association, the Sligo Woods Civic Association, the Northwood Four Corners Civic Association...

Pretty sure that poster said that they WANT TO. They would love to have their housing Scientology spread at the state and federal level, that way they don’t have to worry about pesky community involvement at all.

How dare the resident of the those neighborhood associations care about their neighborhoods! All hail the planning commission!

Eh? People can - and do - care about their neighborhoods without believing that they should have control over the zoning process.

The Planning Department has many, many events at which people can express their opinions and desires about their community.

I agree, and yet here we are talking about a bunch of people that think that they should control zoning because they are big sad that they can’t build apartment buildings in residential neighborhoods. Now the associations will have plenty of thoughts about it for the planning department, at least for quite a while. Maybe, eventually, it will happen, but hopefully it will be slow and watered down to allow a very gradual change.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Imagine if you NIMBYs spent more time voting and less time arguing online. You lost, get over it. Cities need to grow, you aren't entitled to your "home value" or whatever else nonsense you come up with.

Move to some generic suburb and leave the cool cities for us please. :)

This thread is about MoCo, where YIMBYs have delivered declining growth and skyrocketing housing costs. Is the problem that YIMBYism doesn’t actually deliver on its promises or are our YIMBYs just really incompetent?

Dude every housing development is held up in years of litigation for "environmental" reasons. MoCO is nowhere near the top when it comes to new housing per capita.

Are you a troll account or just misinformed? :roll:

No, very few are held up in litigation. That’s a myth. There are two things that hold up development. One is the slow planning process. We have that to entertain the bureaucrats and so that the land use lawyers can run up higher bills. The bigger thing is the developers themselves. They get their plans approved and then they don’t build because they’re concerned the market is soft. When developers say they can’t get financing, that’s code for “if I build this right now, prices will go down, and obviously we can’t have that.” I’d wager that there are more requests to extend plan validity granted each year in Montgomery County than there lawsuits, let alone successful lawsuits.

Yes, so we need types of housing to be allowed to be build so more people can build them. What don't you understand? Young people won't want to live in generic, poorly built suburb houses with ugly lawns. This is why prices continue to go up.

Please look at what New Zealand did and how dramatically it lowered rent growth.

Nimby's gonna nimby!

Some will. Some won't. It would be good if the full range of housing types were allowed by zoning.

They are, that's why we have zoning. Are the townhomes and condos in the area imaginary? What you are saying is that all types should be allowed everywhere, and that's silly.

No, they aren't. We have attached and detached single family buildings. And we have large and very large multifamily buildings. But we don't have small multifamily buildings. The zoning code doesn't allow it.

Allowing small multifamily in single family residential zoned areas of MOCO is a handout to developers & wealthy real estate investors disguised as an affordable housing agenda. It would effectively increase the allowable density in vast portions of the county by 4-8x. We don't have room for this many additional drivers on our roads or students in our schools. Developers should not be allowed to redevelop neighborhoods by-right and quadruple density while forcing county taxpayers to absorb the entire cost of infrastructure improvements and new schools. These YIMBY orgs are funded by special interest groups (real estate developers, construction industry) that want to eliminate zoning altogether. This is not an organic movement with broad public support and it is primarily driven by full-time salaried psuedo-lobbyists that work for non-profits. They are working on behalf of special interest groups to boost their profits and they don't care how it impacts communities. YIMBYs want to circumvent the democratic process and eliminate local community control over the zoning process to force a one-size fits all solution on the entire country. Do not fall for their lies, they will destroy your neighborhoods to benefit wealthy special interest groups.

The what now? Here is who has control over the zoning process: the Montgomery County Planning Board, and the Montgomery County Council.

Here is who doesn't: the Kemp Mill Civic Association, the Upper Sligo Civic Association, the Glenview Neighborhood Association, the Sligo Woods Civic Association, the Northwood Four Corners Civic Association...

Pretty sure that poster said that they WANT TO. They would love to have their housing Scientology spread at the state and federal level, that way they don’t have to worry about pesky community involvement at all.

How dare the resident of the those neighborhood associations care about their neighborhoods! All hail the planning commission!

Eh? People can - and do - care about their neighborhoods without believing that they should have control over the zoning process.

The Planning Department has many, many events at which people can express their opinions and desires about their community.

I agree, and yet here we are talking about a bunch of people that think that they should control zoning because they are big sad that they can’t build apartment buildings in residential neighborhoods. Now the associations will have plenty of thoughts about it for the planning department, at least for quite a while. Maybe, eventually, it will happen, but hopefully it will be slow and watered down to allow a very gradual change.

A very illuminating phrase, right there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Prices go up for detached SFHs in areas of increasing density because that is what most prefer.

NIMBYs love pretending to be daft just to question the obvious.

How are the YIMBYs going to address the shortage of detached SFHs in areas of increasing density?

By suggesting that such can be found farther out, and that we should be encouraging job creation to go along with well-managed housing development in those locations to acieve similar aims to those publicly espoused by YIMBYs.

In MoCo the YIMBYs have advocated banning development farther out, and they’ve gotten their way by banning new houses in vast stretches of the county or otherwise making it commercially infeasible to build new SFH (attached and detached). That’s one reason the housing market is broken.

The Ag Reserve was created in 1980. Forty-four (44) years ago.

And it’s been revised through the years with the effect of making it even harder to build anything there.

You conveniently didn’t even address the most damaging thing that YIMBYs have done: making it commercially infeasible to build new SFH (attached and detached) where it’s allowed and where the available land is. It’s official policy, in the Growth and Infrastructure Policy.

I honestly have no idea what you're talking about.

Then stop posting in this thread and stop doing land use advocacy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Prices go up for detached SFHs in areas of increasing density because that is what most prefer.

NIMBYs love pretending to be daft just to question the obvious.

How are the YIMBYs going to address the shortage of detached SFHs in areas of increasing density?

By suggesting that such can be found farther out, and that we should be encouraging job creation to go along with well-managed housing development in those locations to acieve similar aims to those publicly espoused by YIMBYs.

It is false that MoCo’s YIMBYs espouse anything about job creation. The Thrive draft that planning sent to the Council did not include a chapter on jobs. The Council said that wasn’t right and sent it back. Planning had to hire consultants to write that chapter because they lacked the expertise to do it themselves. And by well-managed housing development in those locations, you either mean banning it or taxing it to death.

My misnomer back a couple of posts caused confusion, here. The post at the beginning of the quotes, here, should have said, "YIMBYs[i] [not NIMBYS] love pretending to be daft just to question the obvious." Change the next post to NIMBYs instead of YIMBYs, as a presumed question in retort.

The third post (again mine) then reads correctly, and suggests that a NIMBY response would achieve similar ends to those YIMBYs [i]say they want (but we know that that for which they really are aiming is the infill development, itself, just touting the social ends as a justification for that).

Interesting point about the origins of the job creation bit in the plan.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Imagine if you NIMBYs spent more time voting and less time arguing online. You lost, get over it. Cities need to grow, you aren't entitled to your "home value" or whatever else nonsense you come up with.

Move to some generic suburb and leave the cool cities for us please.

This thread is about MoCo, where YIMBYs have delivered declining growth and skyrocketing housing costs. Is the problem that YIMBYism doesn’t actually deliver on its promises or are our YIMBYs just really incompetent?

Dude every housing development is held up in years of litigation for "environmental" reasons. MoCO is nowhere near the top when it comes to new housing per capita.

Are you a troll account or just misinformed?

No, very few are held up in litigation. That’s a myth. There are two things that hold up development. One is the slow planning process. We have that to entertain the bureaucrats and so that the land use lawyers can run up higher bills. The bigger thing is the developers themselves. They get their plans approved and then they don’t build because they’re concerned the market is soft. When developers say they can’t get financing, that’s code for “if I build this right now, prices will go down, and obviously we can’t have that.” I’d wager that there are more requests to extend plan validity granted each year in Montgomery County than there lawsuits, let alone successful lawsuits.

Yes, so we need types of housing to be allowed to be build so more people can build them. What don't you understand? Young people won't want to live in generic, poorly built suburb houses with ugly lawns. This is why prices continue to go up.

Please look at what New Zealand did and how dramatically it lowered rent growth.

Nimby's gonna nimby!

Some will. Some won't. It would be good if the full range of housing types were allowed by zoning.

They are, that's why we have zoning. Are the townhomes and condos in the area imaginary? What you are saying is that all types should be allowed everywhere, and that's silly.

No, they aren't. We have attached and detached single family buildings. And we have large and very large multifamily buildings. But we don't have small multifamily buildings. The zoning code doesn't allow it.

Allowing small multifamily in single family residential zoned areas of MOCO is a handout to developers & wealthy real estate investors disguised as an affordable housing agenda. It would effectively increase the allowable density in vast portions of the county by 4-8x. We don't have room for this many additional drivers on our roads or students in our schools. Developers should not be allowed to redevelop neighborhoods by-right and quadruple density while forcing county taxpayers to absorb the entire cost of infrastructure improvements and new schools. These YIMBY orgs are funded by special interest groups (real estate developers, construction industry) that want to eliminate zoning altogether. This is not an organic movement with broad public support and it is primarily driven by full-time salaried psuedo-lobbyists that work for non-profits. They are working on behalf of special interest groups to boost their profits and they don't care how it impacts communities. YIMBYs want to circumvent the democratic process and eliminate local community control over the zoning process to force a one-size fits all solution on the entire country. Do not fall for their lies, they will destroy your neighborhoods to benefit wealthy special interest groups.

The what now? Here is who has control over the zoning process: the Montgomery County Planning Board, and the Montgomery County Council.

Here is who doesn't: the Kemp Mill Civic Association, the Upper Sligo Civic Association, the Glenview Neighborhood Association, the Sligo Woods Civic Association, the Northwood Four Corners Civic Association...

Ummm... You know who would have no control over any of this if there were the expectation that they would be misusing authority by failing to engage with neighborhoods and place great weight on neighborhood concerns? The County Council and Planning Board. Because the citizenry would not have vested them with that autocratic power in the first place.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Imagine if you NIMBYs spent more time voting and less time arguing online. You lost, get over it. Cities need to grow, you aren't entitled to your "home value" or whatever else nonsense you come up with.

Move to some generic suburb and leave the cool cities for us please.

This thread is about MoCo, where YIMBYs have delivered declining growth and skyrocketing housing costs. Is the problem that YIMBYism doesn’t actually deliver on its promises or are our YIMBYs just really incompetent?

Dude every housing development is held up in years of litigation for "environmental" reasons. MoCO is nowhere near the top when it comes to new housing per capita.

Are you a troll account or just misinformed?

No, very few are held up in litigation. That’s a myth. There are two things that hold up development. One is the slow planning process. We have that to entertain the bureaucrats and so that the land use lawyers can run up higher bills. The bigger thing is the developers themselves. They get their plans approved and then they don’t build because they’re concerned the market is soft. When developers say they can’t get financing, that’s code for “if I build this right now, prices will go down, and obviously we can’t have that.” I’d wager that there are more requests to extend plan validity granted each year in Montgomery County than there lawsuits, let alone successful lawsuits.

Yes, so we need types of housing to be allowed to be build so more people can build them. What don't you understand? Young people won't want to live in generic, poorly built suburb houses with ugly lawns. This is why prices continue to go up.

Please look at what New Zealand did and how dramatically it lowered rent growth.

Nimby's gonna nimby!

Some will. Some won't. It would be good if the full range of housing types were allowed by zoning.

They are, that's why we have zoning. Are the townhomes and condos in the area imaginary? What you are saying is that all types should be allowed everywhere, and that's silly.

No, they aren't. We have attached and detached single family buildings. And we have large and very large multifamily buildings. But we don't have small multifamily buildings. The zoning code doesn't allow it.

Allowing small multifamily in single family residential zoned areas of MOCO is a handout to developers & wealthy real estate investors disguised as an affordable housing agenda. It would effectively increase the allowable density in vast portions of the county by 4-8x. We don't have room for this many additional drivers on our roads or students in our schools. Developers should not be allowed to redevelop neighborhoods by-right and quadruple density while forcing county taxpayers to absorb the entire cost of infrastructure improvements and new schools. These YIMBY orgs are funded by special interest groups (real estate developers, construction industry) that want to eliminate zoning altogether. This is not an organic movement with broad public support and it is primarily driven by full-time salaried psuedo-lobbyists that work for non-profits. They are working on behalf of special interest groups to boost their profits and they don't care how it impacts communities. YIMBYs want to circumvent the democratic process and eliminate local community control over the zoning process to force a one-size fits all solution on the entire country. Do not fall for their lies, they will destroy your neighborhoods to benefit wealthy special interest groups.

The what now? Here is who has control over the zoning process: the Montgomery County Planning Board, and the Montgomery County Council.

Here is who doesn't: the Kemp Mill Civic Association, the Upper Sligo Civic Association, the Glenview Neighborhood Association, the Sligo Woods Civic Association, the Northwood Four Corners Civic Association...

Ummm... You know who would have no control over any of this if there were the expectation that they would be misusing authority by failing to engage with neighborhoods and place great weight on neighborhood concerns? The County Council and Planning Board. Because the citizenry would not have vested them with that autocratic power in the first place.

It’s pretty convenient how they’ve made this push mid election cycle…but I doubt that they will get much of this approved in a meaningful way before the next election. We will really need an accounting of which council members are responsible for this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Imagine if you NIMBYs spent more time voting and less time arguing online. You lost, get over it. Cities need to grow, you aren't entitled to your "home value" or whatever else nonsense you come up with.

Move to some generic suburb and leave the cool cities for us please.

This thread is about MoCo, where YIMBYs have delivered declining growth and skyrocketing housing costs. Is the problem that YIMBYism doesn’t actually deliver on its promises or are our YIMBYs just really incompetent?

Dude every housing development is held up in years of litigation for "environmental" reasons. MoCO is nowhere near the top when it comes to new housing per capita.

Are you a troll account or just misinformed?

No, very few are held up in litigation. That’s a myth. There are two things that hold up development. One is the slow planning process. We have that to entertain the bureaucrats and so that the land use lawyers can run up higher bills. The bigger thing is the developers themselves. They get their plans approved and then they don’t build because they’re concerned the market is soft. When developers say they can’t get financing, that’s code for “if I build this right now, prices will go down, and obviously we can’t have that.” I’d wager that there are more requests to extend plan validity granted each year in Montgomery County than there lawsuits, let alone successful lawsuits.

Yes, so we need types of housing to be allowed to be build so more people can build them. What don't you understand? Young people won't want to live in generic, poorly built suburb houses with ugly lawns. This is why prices continue to go up.

Please look at what New Zealand did and how dramatically it lowered rent growth.

Nimby's gonna nimby!

Some will. Some won't. It would be good if the full range of housing types were allowed by zoning.

They are, that's why we have zoning. Are the townhomes and condos in the area imaginary? What you are saying is that all types should be allowed everywhere, and that's silly.

No, they aren't. We have attached and detached single family buildings. And we have large and very large multifamily buildings. But we don't have small multifamily buildings. The zoning code doesn't allow it.

Allowing small multifamily in single family residential zoned areas of MOCO is a handout to developers & wealthy real estate investors disguised as an affordable housing agenda. It would effectively increase the allowable density in vast portions of the county by 4-8x. We don't have room for this many additional drivers on our roads or students in our schools. Developers should not be allowed to redevelop neighborhoods by-right and quadruple density while forcing county taxpayers to absorb the entire cost of infrastructure improvements and new schools. These YIMBY orgs are funded by special interest groups (real estate developers, construction industry) that want to eliminate zoning altogether. This is not an organic movement with broad public support and it is primarily driven by full-time salaried psuedo-lobbyists that work for non-profits. They are working on behalf of special interest groups to boost their profits and they don't care how it impacts communities. YIMBYs want to circumvent the democratic process and eliminate local community control over the zoning process to force a one-size fits all solution on the entire country. Do not fall for their lies, they will destroy your neighborhoods to benefit wealthy special interest groups.

The what now? Here is who has control over the zoning process: the Montgomery County Planning Board, and the Montgomery County Council.

Here is who doesn't: the Kemp Mill Civic Association, the Upper Sligo Civic Association, the Glenview Neighborhood Association, the Sligo Woods Civic Association, the Northwood Four Corners Civic Association...

Ummm... You know who would have no control over any of this if there were the expectation that they would be misusing authority by failing to engage with neighborhoods and place great weight on neighborhood concerns? The County Council and Planning Board. Because the citizenry would not have vested them with that autocratic power in the first place.

It’s pretty convenient how they’ve made this push mid election cycle…but I doubt that they will get much of this approved in a meaningful way before the next election. We will really need an accounting of which council members are responsible for this.

I think you are off on that assessment. I think they are pushing it through right now, because opposition will only grow and because later timing would put the issue front and center during the election cycle instead of in the rear-view mirror where they'd want it.

By the time most of those impacted become aware, it will be too far down the stage-gate approvals process. Anyone running for County Council next year (only a few due to MoCo's majority-friendly staggered elections) will have plenty of time to brush off criticism, especially since the felt effects will take a bit of time post-approval.

[Anonymous]

Nimby's gonna nimby, all day, every day. Y'all are hilarious.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Nimby's gonna nimby, all day, every day. Y'all are hilarious.

YIMBY's gonna impose on others all day...

..and will stop the PR a soon as the developers get what they are after.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Nimby's gonna nimby, all day, every day. Y'all are hilarious.

YIMBY’s gonna spread misinformation and misapply economic theory, all day, every day. You all are dangerous.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Imagine if you NIMBYs spent more time voting and less time arguing online. You lost, get over it. Cities need to grow, you aren't entitled to your "home value" or whatever else nonsense you come up with.

Move to some generic suburb and leave the cool cities for us please.

This thread is about MoCo, where YIMBYs have delivered declining growth and skyrocketing housing costs. Is the problem that YIMBYism doesn’t actually deliver on its promises or are our YIMBYs just really incompetent?

Dude every housing development is held up in years of litigation for "environmental" reasons. MoCO is nowhere near the top when it comes to new housing per capita.

Are you a troll account or just misinformed?

No, very few are held up in litigation. That’s a myth. There are two things that hold up development. One is the slow planning process. We have that to entertain the bureaucrats and so that the land use lawyers can run up higher bills. The bigger thing is the developers themselves. They get their plans approved and then they don’t build because they’re concerned the market is soft. When developers say they can’t get financing, that’s code for “if I build this right now, prices will go down, and obviously we can’t have that.” I’d wager that there are more requests to extend plan validity granted each year in Montgomery County than there lawsuits, let alone successful lawsuits.

Yes, so we need types of housing to be allowed to be build so more people can build them. What don't you understand? Young people won't want to live in generic, poorly built suburb houses with ugly lawns. This is why prices continue to go up.

Please look at what New Zealand did and how dramatically it lowered rent growth.

Nimby's gonna nimby!

Some will. Some won't. It would be good if the full range of housing types were allowed by zoning.

They are, that's why we have zoning. Are the townhomes and condos in the area imaginary? What you are saying is that all types should be allowed everywhere, and that's silly.

No, they aren't. We have attached and detached single family buildings. And we have large and very large multifamily buildings. But we don't have small multifamily buildings. The zoning code doesn't allow it.

Allowing small multifamily in single family residential zoned areas of MOCO is a handout to developers & wealthy real estate investors disguised as an affordable housing agenda. It would effectively increase the allowable density in vast portions of the county by 4-8x. We don't have room for this many additional drivers on our roads or students in our schools. Developers should not be allowed to redevelop neighborhoods by-right and quadruple density while forcing county taxpayers to absorb the entire cost of infrastructure improvements and new schools. These YIMBY orgs are funded by special interest groups (real estate developers, construction industry) that want to eliminate zoning altogether. This is not an organic movement with broad public support and it is primarily driven by full-time salaried psuedo-lobbyists that work for non-profits. They are working on behalf of special interest groups to boost their profits and they don't care how it impacts communities. YIMBYs want to circumvent the democratic process and eliminate local community control over the zoning process to force a one-size fits all solution on the entire country. Do not fall for their lies, they will destroy your neighborhoods to benefit wealthy special interest groups.

The what now? Here is who has control over the zoning process: the Montgomery County Planning Board, and the Montgomery County Council.

Here is who doesn't: the Kemp Mill Civic Association, the Upper Sligo Civic Association, the Glenview Neighborhood Association, the Sligo Woods Civic Association, the Northwood Four Corners Civic Association...

Ummm... You know who would have no control over any of this if there were the expectation that they would be misusing authority by failing to engage with neighborhoods and place great weight on neighborhood concerns? The County Council and Planning Board. Because the citizenry would not have vested them with that autocratic power in the first place.

It’s pretty convenient how they’ve made this push mid election cycle…but I doubt that they will get much of this approved in a meaningful way before the next election. We will really need an accounting of which council members are responsible for this.

I think you are off on that assessment. I think they are pushing it through right now, because opposition will only grow and because later timing would put the issue front and center during the election cycle instead of in the rear-view mirror where they'd want it.

By the time most of those impacted become aware, it will be too far down the stage-gate approvals process. Anyone running for County Council next year (only a few due to MoCo's majority-friendly staggered elections) will have plenty of time to brush off criticism, especially since the felt effects will take a bit of time post-approval.

I think that it will take some years before they can BEGIN, no matter what is approved soon. Approvals can be overturned.