Disciplining the undisciplinable - HELP me with my 4yo DD
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Anonymous
| My DH and I are at the absolute end of our rope with our 4 yo DD. For background, she has always had a temper. When pushed or cornered into something that isn't going her way (e.g. served a food she doesn't want to eat, given a task she reeealy doesn't want to complete) she goes level 10 nuclear meltdown: screaming, hitting, mean words, throwing things, slamming doors, sprinting outside with no shoes on, the works. This has happened a few times in school, but at home it has now escalated to the point that anything not going her way elicits these responses. She is also LOUD LOUD LOUD from the moment she gets up in the morning, super heavy feet, interrupts constantly, attempts to defer her with "I would love to talk to you when I am finished talking to your brother" etc. are met with the acting out behavior. We typically remove her from the situation immediately - if playing outside, we go in. If watching a movie, she goes upstairs to bed. She has an 8 yo brother who is similarly sensitive and reactive, and from the beginning we handled it all Janet Lansbury style, acknowledging feelings, staying calm, "I can't let you xyz", "I will keep you safe" and I smugly was like wow, look how well this works. We do the same thing with DD and it sometimes manages the situation, but her reactions to things are so disproportionate I admit that DH and I have a hard time tempering our reactions, too. Yesterday she did not want to get her shoes on for school, was running around the house, picked up a chair and threw it into DH's guitars and he lost it. Our family walks on eggshells. If we put her in her room for timeout - we have to literally lock her in there to keep her there and just wait for her to completely destroy the room. We feel like shitty parents, are constantly going back over our choices to try to determine what we should have done differently with this child. We have done the sticker charts, rewards, etc. and while there is temporary incentive, it doesn't really change anything. We talk about riding the wave of her big feelings and she does talk about not feeling in control of her body. I am starting to read Explosive Child and that has some good perspective but not sure if it's tailored for kids this young. In between outbursts she is extremely creative and precocious, energetic, funny, has lots of friends and seems to do fine socially, has a good, easy bedtime routine and sleeps well. She shows remorse after outbursts and says things like "everyone hates me", "I'm the worst girl in the world". I'm really at a loss and can't believe I'm sending this child to kindergarten. Looking for sympathy and advice (but not afraid of tough love here, either). |
Anonymous
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We were having less severe but similar issues with DS, also 4. His teacher recommended behavior therapy and said first step would be an assessment by ChildFind which is through the county. We're in Fairfax County, not sure if you are.
We didn't end up pursuing it because his behavior has calmed down since that conversation with the teacher, but it may be helpful for you. No judgement, I know how hard it can be to deal with. |
Anonymous
| That sounds very difficult! I would get her evaluated by a child psychiatrist and/or developmental ped. Sounds like you are doing a great job but she’s got behaviors that are out of usual range and therefore professional input would be worthwhile. Having said that, many kids do simply outgrow a lot of this type of thing h. However not all do without intervention and since she has a brother who is also being affected I would start looking into an eval. Good luck! |
Anonymous
| It was never as bad as you say, but around that age, when there was such blatant outright defiance, we were not averse to using moderate spanking to re-establish control and provide an unpleasant consequence for this. (You said "tough love.") |
Anonymous
I guarantee spanking would not help her! She would probably hit me right back. Does anyone have a developmental ped and/or child psych they recommend? I'm in Nova |
Anonymous
| The good news is that your girl is smart. She has learned a strategy that works, and this is taking it to level 10 right off the bat. You have to take the effectiveness out of her behavior, 100% of the time. |
Anonymous
+1 |
Anonymous
| It sounds like your daughter is more extreme than mine, but my daughter at age 4 became SO bratty, and yes is ALWAYS shouting. She used to be so quiet and well behaved. I'm still trying to wrap my head around it. I don't know if it's age related or partly pandemic related. |
Anonymous
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2 ideas:
1. get an Occupational therapist consult. MANY children have regulation issues and OT can really help - sounds crazy, but it really works for those who need it. 2. Contact Lerner Child Development, lernerchilddevelopment dot com - Claire Lerner is an educational consultant. She's in the DMV area. She can do either consultation just with you, or can add in observing your child, etc. |
Anonymous
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My kid was similarly explosive from, well, birth, through age 5 or 6. He then began to get more control and he is a super chill 14 year old now. We also had to hold the door closed while my son destroyed his room if we sent him for a time out at age 4. We stopped doing that - it traumatized us all. Age four was peak awfulness.
I read Unconditional Parenting by Alfie Kohn at about that time and it helped me reframe how I thought about my son. It isn’t step by step practical but it helped me not feel like I had to control my son into better behavior. I think his approach is similar to Landsbury, so you may already have that covered. When he was 10 my son developed insomnia and we brought him to a therapist and he was diagnosed with anxiety. I was gobsmacked - my son seemed so outgoing and loud and confident. But he was masking a lot of anxiety. He did a few months of CBT and things got so much better. The book Anxiety Free Kids helped me with tools to help him. Good luck! This is hard. |
Anonymous
| Just curious, how exactly does an occupational therapist change this behavior? And, with a 4 year old? |
Anonymous
Difficult need extremely consistent discipline. Pick one (time-outs are the best, I think) and do it over, and over, and over, and over again. If she destroys the room, oh well, she has to pick it up again. And again. And again. Most “difficult” kids need a wall of a parent, you don’t budge or flinch from established (fair and understood) rules. You should have very few rules for your kids, but iron-clad. |
Anonymous
| Thank you for the input everyone. I agree with PP above who talks about consistent discipline - we definitely fail there. Older DS has anxiety, I wouldn't be surprised if she develops it too. DH and I both ask each other all the time - where did she come from? We were both anxious but very chill kids. Her intensity and volume is so out of character for our introverted low key family, and I try so hard to embrace it because I want to love her for who she is (I DO love her for who she is), but I am completely exhausted by the behavior. |
Anonymous
| I was like this as a child. I had/have really bad anxiety. |
Anonymous
| Op this sounds really hard and also sounds potentially like anxiety but of course hard to know over dcum but I definitely think getting some professional help and assessments will be worth it. Also if that was you asking about how ot helps- if she does have high sensory needs (which is very possible, sometimes the loud banging stuff can be sensory) then finding ways to meet those sensory needs can help. I wouldn’t only do ot though |