S/O of asking favors from creative professionals

[Anonymous]

I also work in a creative field and have struggled with some of the issues raised in the other thread. Close friends have offered to pay me for my work, but I’ve always said no bc it feels like nickle and diming, and I agree that there’s give and take in a relationship. I’ve also often felt like I have more time to than some of my other friends (I work PT vs FT) but I’ve noticed that I end up feeling burnt out in relationships. I give a lot bc I devalue my own time. I agree that friendship is give and take but I also see how this is all a slippery slope.

I don’t feel comfortable charging close friends for work but, at the same time, I have enough close friends that this adds up
to a lot of favors, and I find myself in relationships that don’t feel reciprocal. I think people also feel more comfortable asking me bc I don’t work full-time and they feel like ‘well she’s not doing anything else’ so it’s not an imposition to ask (whereas they’re in office jobs all day and have less time). Thoughts?

[Anonymous]

Think about it this way - would you charge them if you were a lawyer? Working part time, enjoying your job, etc. My friend is a lawyer, anything that takes her more than 5-10 minutes to do, I am prepared to pay.

My husband is a creative professional. Here is what I learned- good friends offer to pay and mean it.

[Anonymous]

It’s guilt sometimes I feel like my life is easier than other people’s so I should do things for free or help them. I do think it’s a good value to help people in need, but I think I’m also a people pleaser and sort of get bamboozled by people (which is my own fault! bc I’m not good at saying now and feel like I ‘have’ to do things for others to be a good person).

[Anonymous]

Also a creative and another creative friend of mine has a mantra of "F*ck you, pay me" that has never let her down. I've adopted it and just say no. I occasionally offer for things like my best friend's wedding invitations or a good friend needing a messaging review of his new business website, but it's something initiated by me.

[Anonymous]

You need to get comfortable saying no. Stop making it personal. Just say, I wish I could help, I just don't have the bandwidth. You do creative work - it's still work.

[Anonymous]

I think it crosses a line when it is something you do to put a roof over your head / feed your family.

Relationships are give and take, but it shouldn’t be the resources that pay the bills, IMHO. We all watch kids, prep a dinner to take over if someone is sick, drive them if their car is broken, etc. These are the kindnesses and favours that are normal and appreciated amongst friends.

No one would think to demand their teacher friend come tutor their kid for free, or that lawyer friend revise their divorce papers, but it seems to get cloudy with creative fields, because some poe9e don’t value those fields as “real, live work”.

I don’t demand money my friends randomly either.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You need to get comfortable saying no. Stop making it personal. Just say, I wish I could help, I just don't have the bandwidth. You do creative work - it's still work.

I know!! That’s why I liked the posters in the other thread saying that Op needed to respect her friend’s boundaries even if she didn’t understand them. How do you get better at saying no? Partly it’s a fear of outcomes like exactly the one in the other thread—that if you say no to the favor the other person will take it as a rejection/sign you don’t feel the same degree of closeness and withdraw their own kindnesses. This is where I feel like socialization has really screwed women. We’ve been socialized to be so agreeable that we sometimes interpret healthy boundaries as being dismissal/lack of reciprocity etc. Is this partly bc we say yes so often when we’d rather say no that we’re resentful when others don’t over extend themselves in the same ways?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I also work in a creative field and have struggled with some of the issues raised in the other thread. Close friends have offered to pay me for my work, but I’ve always said no bc it feels like nickle and diming, and I agree that there’s give and take in a relationship. I’ve also often felt like I have more time to than some of my other friends (I work PT vs FT) but I’ve noticed that I end up feeling burnt out in relationships. I give a lot bc I devalue my own time. I agree that friendship is give and take but I also see how this is all a slippery slope.

I don’t feel comfortable charging close friends for work but, at the same time, I have enough close friends that this adds up
to a lot of favors, and I find myself in relationships that don’t feel reciprocal. I think people also feel more comfortable asking me bc I don’t work full-time and they feel like ‘well she’s not doing anything else’ so it’s not an imposition to ask (whereas they’re in office jobs all day and have less time). Thoughts?

I think this is what you should say, more or less. “I don’t feel comfortable charging you, because we are so close, but I also have so many people asking that I have had to start keeping [creative field] and friendship separate.”

[Anonymous]

When I had buy own creative business friends and family asked to hire me all the time. I told them I didn't do substantive work for friends or family, but I would be happy to talk them through an hour of consultation and they would either feel like that was good or I could refer them on.

[Anonymous]

I think the key is that your friends offer to pay first, rather than ask for freebies. I hired a fitness instructor who had been laid off during Covid as a personal trainer while pregnant—she was a friend of a friend and offered a steep discount which I declined because my income was unaffected, but it would have been unimaginably rude to *ask* her to work for less, it’s something that if offered can be accepted l.

[Anonymous]

You might consider having this moved to Jobs and Careers, because you may get more responses there.

I have found, both personally and in talking to other creative professionals, that this discomfort around charging friends/family for your work correlates heavily with a more general discomfort with charging what you're worth to any client. As professionals, it's so important that we value our work properly, and that we charge based on that value rather than some diminished amount that undervalues us. If someone doesn't want to pay an appropriate rate for your work, then they are not your customer no matter how much they may want to be.

As for friends and family, think about the work you're considering giving away for free as a gift. If you were not a creative professional, would you give that person a gift of the same value as your work for this particular occasion? If yes, go ahead and do it for free. If not, then say you will do it for a fee. Your friend or family is asking you to do it because they know your work has value, and because it's something they can't readily do themselves (at least not to your level). If they balk at that idea of paying you for that work, know that it's not because it's inappropriate for you to charge them, it's because they take you and/or your work for granted and don't value it appropriately. Don't give your work away to people who don't appreciate it.

[Anonymous]

I think you're a sucker who is creating her own problems. Decide on a discount that you will give to close family and friends. Each time they ask you to do work say, "I charge $400 for that, but I'd be happy to give you my Friends & Family Discount of 25% off. Feel free to email me back if you're interested in me getting started."

Then you're getting paid for your work, and they're getting a deal.

[Anonymous]

I would never want a close friend to do creative work for me for free. I have a friend who makes T shirts and I have bought several just off her Etsy shop. She has sent me a few as gifts at times.

It’s fine to charge friends. Not charging them might be awkward for them.

[Anonymous]

A good piece of advice I got is to charge them the amount you need to not feel resentful. Sometimes it’s full price, sometimes I give a discount, sometimes I do it for free.

I’ve also been saying no to small projects. Most of my clients pay $5-10k, and it’s too much of a hassle for me to take on smaller projects, even though my friends think it would be less of an inconvenience.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You need to get comfortable saying no. Stop making it personal. Just say, I wish I could help, I just don't have the bandwidth. You do creative work - it's still work.

I know!! That’s why I liked the posters in the other thread saying that Op needed to respect her friend’s boundaries even if she didn’t understand them. How do you get better at saying no? Partly it’s a fear of outcomes like exactly the one in the other thread—that if you say no to the favor the other person will take it as a rejection/sign you don’t feel the same degree of closeness and withdraw their own kindnesses. This is where I feel like socialization has really screwed women. We’ve been socialized to be so agreeable that we sometimes interpret healthy boundaries as being dismissal/lack of reciprocity etc. Is this partly bc we say yes so often when we’d rather say no that we’re resentful when others don’t over extend themselves in the same ways?

New poster. OP, is that you posting just above? This is a very perceptive post. Stop and re-read it again, OP. You are spot on about how socialization affects this scenario.

Note too that you equate, above, what YOU do professionally (your work) with others "kindnesses" (not work). That's what you're doing when you say you fear people will "withdraw their kindnesses" if you say no to doing your WORK for them for free. Don't equate the two things. Unless your friends are offering to trade you actual goods or services for which they'd otherwise get paid, in exchange for your own services for which you would otherwise get paid -- there is no equivalency. Remind yourself of that.

I like the reply from a PP who said to come up with something like, "I don't have the bandwidth." In your shoes I would craft a statement you always, always use when asked for your professional services for free. Memorize it like a script and deliver it with breezy, friendly confidence. Something like, "I'm glad you like my creative work. I've found I can't do it on the side any more since doing it professionally takes up my work time." Or something like that. If someone tries to say, "Oh, it can wait, we can talk about it later/that could wait until you're less busy" etc., well, be ready for that kind of thing. There are people who are not capable of hearing the "No" in your softer statement. So you might need to be more blunt with them: "I'm not trying to put you off until later. I really don't do my [creative job] on the side for friends any more but if you're interested in it as a client, let me know and I'm glad to send you my rates."

If you have already been doing "favors" of your work for friends, you will have to deal with a period when some might say, "But you did it for Sally at cost" etc. If you've established a precedent of doing your job for free for friends, you'll have to be all the more firm as you stop doing that. Do not let the precedent make you feel you now must do X for Jenny because you did it for Sally already.