Prepping/Scamming the Cogat

[Anonymous]

PP: We are not talking about studying. If Prep == Learning the material, then that is fine. We are talking about a test designed to measure how smart a kid is.

Now....what has happened is some people got copies of the test -- that is what exact form means. That test was used under the guise of test prep. Memorizing the exact test is what FCPS prohibits. Just like my daughter is not aloud to copy off her neighbor.

FCPS invented a new test (or formulated) because of the prep. That cost tax payers money. They own the test, so no one else can get a copy of it.

How is this so hard for you to understand? MEMORIZING OR COPYING FROM THE EXACT FORM IS CHEATING!

Who got copies of the test...or is it copies of the form...rather copies of the test form...or is it the form of the test?

Who and Which is it?

[Anonymous]

I wish folk could write in simple and plain English language (including FCPS). Maybe these people are not only afraid of math, and test prep; but also plain and simple English!

[Anonymous]

Sorry, it's not the form. It's the "exact form".

Is this the test or is this the exact form?

[Anonymous]

Simple solution. Everyone should have access to the "exact form of the test" and there will be peace in Fairfax County. At least until another decoy or red herring for purposes of social engineering.

[Anonymous]

+1

Then those who want to prepare can; and others, who wish to rely on their immutable, innate, intelligence or eat green eggs and ham can do so.

[Anonymous]

PP: ...We are not talking about studying. If Prep == Learning the material, then that is fine. We are talking about a test designed to measure how smart a kid is.

The outcome of tests designed to measure how smart or strong a kid is reflect the past history of loading conditions and experience on the mind and body. For the body, this may reflect the history of athletic pursuits (eg, club football, soccer and swimming) and resistance training ("prep"). For the mind, this may reflect the intensity and duration of mental exercises (eg,tutors, reading, writing and rithmetic).

Past history and experience is definitely preparation or "prep". Strength and Smarts are definitely not fixed or immutable.

[Anonymous]

WOW! This thread is OOC. However, I have to jump in, I just can't help it! It seems that their are some citizen police on this forum that are going to turn every rock until they find the "cheaters." However, it is not cheating or illegal (as noted earlier in the thread) to prep your DC for an aptitude test. There is NO exact copy of the CogAT available. However, Mercer Publishing offers a practice exam that offers similar questions and a bubble form for the kids to become familiar. I don't understand the issue with this. If parents want to spend $70 on a prep test, they can. If parents can't afford it (and this is the issue) then too bad! Forgo your cable for a month and buy the test book. Life isn't always fair, that's life! Some parents suck and others are awesome. Again, that's life. If you've been dealt a crappy mom and dad, that's life. No reason why I can't do all in my power (including my wallet) to help make sure my kid gets all she/he deserves in life. It's called making choices.

Also, the only recent immigrants that are getting ahead are majority Asian - please let's not bash hardworkers who value education. Moreover, it is hard to value education and make better education choices for ones child when the parent is uneducated and/or their culture doesn't value education. Again, too bad, that's life. Prepping is not cheating. It is preparing (that's what it is short for) one's child for a test that can get them noticed and into an advanced education program.

To all you haters - make better choices and stop accusing those who are of cheating.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Sorry, it's not the form. It's the "exact form".

Is this the test or is this the exact form?

No. The allegation is that Mercer Publishing's CogAt test prep materials were essentially the same as the form of the test used by FCPS. But it was not a purloined copy of the exam - merely Mercer's work product that successfully mimicked the real exam. The federal court held Mercer did not steal the test and in fact did nothing wrong.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:PP: We are not talking about studying. If Prep == Learning the material, then that is fine. We are talking about a test designed to measure how smart a kid is.

Now....what has happened is some people got copies of the test -- that is what exact form means. That test was used under the guise of test prep. Memorizing the exact test is what FCPS prohibits. Just like my daughter is not aloud to copy off her neighbor.

FCPS invented a new test (or formulated) because of the prep. That cost tax payers money. They own the test, so no one else can get a copy of it.

How is this so hard for you to understand? MEMORIZING OR COPYING FROM THE EXACT FORM IS CHEATING!

This is False. From a previous post:

Here is an excerpt from a lawsuit filed against the test prep company by the publishers of the cogat test. Specifically mentions fairfax county.

Riverside's evidence of irreparable harm is meager. According to Riverside, Mercer's previous practice exams were so similar to the CogAT that Riverside's customers perceived that the integrity of the exam had been compromised. The sole evidence of this harm, however, comes in a single paragraph of the declaration of Tracey Barrett, a Riverside vice-president. She declares that "Riverside received complaints from several school district customers regarding extensive similarities between [Mercer's] practice exams and Riverside's CogAT exams." Barrett Decl. ¶ 4. The sole example she provides is that an unnamed person or persons at Virginia's Fairfax County Public School District "complained that Mercer's practice exams were strikingly similar to Riverside's exams," and that it "belie[ved] that Mercer's practice exams defeated the integrity of Riverside's CogAT exams." Id. Riverside provided no evidence from anyone at the Fairfax school district or any other school district. Ms. Barrett states that "several" customers had similar complaints, but there is no evidence of how many, and there is no evidence of how many customers had no complaints. Moreover, the evidence shows that Mercer has continued to publish the practice exams it submitted in 2009, with minimal changes due to Riverside's objections. Despite the widespread availability of those exams for at least several years, Riverside has no evidence that it has lost a single customer because of the belief that the Mercer practice exams compromise the integrity of the CogAT.

[Anonymous]

The allegation was that Mercer's test prep materials were "strikingly similar" to the form of the CogAt used by FCPS.
There is no allegation anyone "got copies of the test."

Whomever is saying this should provide a source in support of this claim.

[Anonymous]

There was a separate (unproven) allegation. I am sure someone has gotten a copy of the test...

I think we can all agree that using the exact copy of the test is wrong.

We can debate about prepping. I do not know the answer. We did not prep. Daughter got in to AAP. My experience on prepping for the test is mixed from personal experience. Bear in mind, prepping is different from learning material AKA studying. I studied for the SATs by working on vocabulary. Not doing practice tests. THat is a feature that remains today.

I studied in college: learning how to solve the physics and engineering problems. But, I did not use the actual test (or similar tests) to prepare. Rather, I studied the material overall.

Getting back to the CogAT, I just do not see the value. A study needs to be done; prepped vs. unprepped kids.

[Anonymous]

I will say one other comment. I do not want to see education in the USA turn into a place where second chances are not given. The best aspect of the american education system is the fact that there are many second chances. In India, Korea, and other places, if you miss admittance to the right school, you are done. And that can happen at an early age.

For example, in South Korea, the suicide rate is approximately 2x the USA rate (6.9 per 100K is US, compared with 13 per 100K in ROK).

Studies in Korea indicate that much of the suicide rate results from educational pressure. http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/nation/2012/05/117_110103.html

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I will say one other comment. I do not want to see education in the USA turn into a place where second chances are not given. The best aspect of the american education system is the fact that there are many second chances. In India, Korea, and other places, if you miss admittance to the right school, you are done. And that can happen at an early age.

For example, in South Korea, the suicide rate is approximately 2x the USA rate (6.9 per 100K is US, compared with 13 per 100K in ROK).

Studies in Korea indicate that much of the suicide rate results from educational pressure. http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/nation/2012/05/117_110103.html

same with the IITs in India (don't know about the suicide rate). And the Gaokao (Chinese entrance exam for colleges). These aspirants prep til the cows come home and have brought there culture over here with them. To tell them to stop prepping is like telling the wind to stop blowing.

[Anonymous]

No. The allegation is that Mercer Publishing's CogAt test prep materials were essentially the same as the form of the test used by FCPS. But it was not a purloined copy of the exam - merely Mercer's work product that successfully mimicked the real exam. The federal court held Mercer did not steal the test and in fact did nothing wrong.

Here we go again. What is essentially the same? Is this code? Because I can can prepare a sample test for my kid in arithmetic and it is essentially the same as the test he takes in the classroom I and my child must be cheating of course. A monkey can reproduce an essentially the same test for elementary school material. Outlines of all the courses are online and if you are half way following the homework and what your child tells you he or she is doing in class a monkey can draft essentially the same in class test!

Savvy tutors, parents, students and siblings do this every day in every classroom and home in America.

[Anonymous]

WOW! This thread is OOC. However, I have to jump in, I just can't help it! It seems that their are some citizen police on this forum that are going to turn every rock until they find the "cheaters." However, it is not cheating or illegal (as noted earlier in the thread) to prep your DC for an aptitude test. There is NO exact copy of the CogAT available. However, Mercer Publishing offers a practice exam that offers similar questions and a bubble form for the kids to become familiar. I don't understand the issue with this. If parents want to spend $70 on a prep test, they can. If parents can't afford it (and this is the issue) then too bad! Forgo your cable for a month and buy the test book. Life isn't always fair, that's life! Some parents suck and others are awesome. Again, that's life. If you've been dealt a crappy mom and dad, that's life. No reason why I can't do all in my power (including my wallet) to help make sure my kid gets all she/he deserves in life. It's called making choices.

Also, the only recent immigrants that are getting ahead are majority Asian - please let's not bash hardworkers who value education. Moreover, it is hard to value education and make better education choices for ones child when the parent is uneducated and/or their culture doesn't value education. Again, too bad, that's life. Prepping is not cheating. It is preparing (that's what it is short for) one's child for a test that can get them noticed and into an advanced education program.

To all you haters - make better choices and stop accusing those who are of cheating.

...Your average flunky who can't compete