Prepping/Scamming the Cogat

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

No. The allegation is that Mercer Publishing's CogAt test prep materials were essentially the same as the form of the test used by FCPS. But it was not a purloined copy of the exam - merely Mercer's work product that successfully mimicked the real exam. The federal court held Mercer did not steal the test and in fact did nothing wrong.

Here we go again. What is essentially the same? Is this code? Because I can can prepare a sample test for my kid in arithmetic and it is essentially the same as the test he takes in the classroom I and my child must be cheating of course. A monkey can reproduce an essentially the same test for elementary school material. Outlines of all the courses are online and if you are half way following the homework and what your child tells you he or she is doing in class a monkey can draft essentially the same in class test!

Savvy tutors, parents, students and siblings do this every day in every classroom and home in America.

^ right. Nobody ever said Mercer stole the exam or that their materials were copies of the exam. It was their work product that came up materials that looke dlike the real exam.

[Anonymous]

same with the IITs in India (don't know about the suicide rate). And the Gaokao (Chinese entrance exam for colleges). These aspirants prep til the cows come home and have brought there culture over here with them. To tell them to stop prepping is like telling the wind to stop blowing.

Why are you so frightened by others who work hard and prep. What is the fear? If this practice is unhealthy, and these guys don't heed your advice to stop, you win. I can't imagine you have altruistic motives and want to save these immigrants from themselves.

Why are you shaking like a leaf because some folk prep?

Are you envious?

Why so are you scared to the point of incontinence (verbal and otherwise)?

This is the land of the free? I do not need you in my children's library and study.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

same with the IITs in India (don't know about the suicide rate). And the Gaokao (Chinese entrance exam for colleges). These aspirants prep til the cows come home and have brought there culture over here with them. To tell them to stop prepping is like telling the wind to stop blowing.

Why are you so frightened by others who work hard and prep. What is the fear? If this practice is unhealthy, and these guys don't heed your advice to stop, you win. I can't imagine you have altruistic motives and want to save these immigrants from themselves.

Why are you shaking like a leaf because some folk prep?

Are you envious?

Why so are you scared to the point of incontinence (verbal and otherwise)?

This is the land of the free? I do not need you in my children's library and study.

you're reading way too much into that post you quoted.
It was just an observation. You disagree with it?

[Anonymous]

There was a separate (unproven) allegation. I am sure someone has gotten a copy of the test...

I think we can all agree that using the exact copy of the test is wrong.

We can debate about prepping. I do not know the answer. We did not prep. Daughter got in to AAP. My experience on prepping for the test is mixed from personal experience. Bear in mind, prepping is different from learning material AKA studying. I studied for the SATs by working on vocabulary. Not doing practice tests. THat is a feature that remains today.

I studied in college: learning how to solve the physics and engineering problems. But, I did not use the actual test (or similar tests) to prepare. Rather, I studied the material overall.

Getting back to the CogAT, I just do not see the value. A study needs to be done; prepped vs. unprepped kids.

When I had a tough test I studied hard, did practice tests/problems (best way to teach and learn is to make up the problems, as if you are the professor, and then answer them using multiple strategies), worked out in the gym and had plenty of sex before the test. The results were outstanding. I guess I cheated big time. All I did was practice problems (oral and written) by tests (wriitten and oral).

Moral of the story, no one cares that you did no practice tests or problems. Good for you. All I did through school (and today on the job) was practice problems and essay questions (as many as I could get my hands on or make). Just do problems. This is the best advice I can give to any youngster. Solve as many problems as you can (oral and written)
[/b]

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

There was a separate (unproven) allegation. I am sure someone has gotten a copy of the test...

I think we can all agree that using the exact copy of the test is wrong.

We can debate about prepping. I do not know the answer. We did not prep. Daughter got in to AAP. My experience on prepping for the test is mixed from personal experience. Bear in mind, prepping is different from learning material AKA studying. I studied for the SATs by working on vocabulary. Not doing practice tests. THat is a feature that remains today.

I studied in college: learning how to solve the physics and engineering problems. But, I did not use the actual test (or similar tests) to prepare. Rather, I studied the material overall.

Getting back to the CogAT, I just do not see the value. A study needs to be done; prepped vs. unprepped kids.

When I had a tough test I studied hard, did practice tests/problems (best way to teach and learn is to make up the problems, as if you are the professor, and then answer them using multiple strategies), worked out in the gym and had plenty of sex before the test. The results were outstanding. I guess I cheated big time. All I did was practice problems (oral and written) by tests (wriitten and oral).

Moral of the story, no one cares that you did no practice tests or problems. Good for you. All I did through school (and today on the job) was practice problems and essay questions (as many as I could get my hands on or make). Just do problems. This is the best advice I can give to any youngster. Solve as many problems as you can (oral and written)
[/b]

I did that on the bar exam. These test question writers are sick people - only way to get into their head is practice hundreds if not thousands of questions

[Anonymous]

Mercer Publishing Inc. did what many able parents do everyday when they help their kids with their studies. It's rather easy to predict topics, subject matter, questions, exact form of questions on elementary and middle school tests. This is not rocket science and this is not cheating.

PM offline if any of you want my intellectual property. I am not incorporated and I am not a publishing company.

[Anonymous]

I did that on the bar exam. These test question writers are sick people - only way to get into their head is practice hundreds if not thousands of questions

I did this for math throughout up to USAMO. Never opened a pathetic public school text book in my life. I just did problems, hard problems. If you are getting them right then the problems were not hard enough. Never had any problems with college course in higher maths, science, economics, computer science, philosophy or English.

"Prep" by doing problems. Just do problems, hard and harder problems over and over again if you really want to learn a subject-deeply. This methods does wonders for your growing IQ and intelligence!

[Anonymous]

I do not know of any FCPS student/child that won the State or National Geo Bee, Spelling Bee or Math Olympiad that did not do "test prep" NONE is 3 decades.

Those who left the prize to their immutable and innate intelligence never got out of the classroom round.

Same for music.

[Anonymous]

No. The allegation is that Mercer Publishing's CogAt test prep materials were essentially the same as the form of the test used by FCPS. But it was not a purloined copy of the exam - merely Mercer's work product that successfully mimicked the real exam. The federal court held Mercer did not steal the test and in fact did nothing wrong.

Students have used this strategy for at least 300 years. All students will anticipate what to expect on an upcoming real exam. I did it and you did it growing up. Some kids do it far better than others. This is not cheating. It's actually reflects a component of intelligence!

[Anonymous]

I agree. Some kids and parents understand the context, the subject matter, the teacher's style and approach (or that of CoGAT or the College Board), the audience and the purpose of the exam.

[Anonymous]

Now....what has happened is some people got copies of the test -- that is what exact form means. That test was used under the guise of test prep. Memorizing the exact test is what FCPS prohibits. Just like my daughter is not aloud to copy off her neighbor.

FCPS invented a new test (or formulated) because of the prep. That cost tax payers money. They own the test, so no one else can get a copy of it.

How is this so hard for you to understand? MEMORIZING OR COPYING FROM THE EXACT FORM IS CHEATING!

You poor ranting, delusional sod. Not one single poster has provided any evidence on this thread or anywhere else that some parents have gotten advanced copies of any of the AAP tests and that they then used those copies to have the children memorize the answers. Please provide some evidence of any sort that demonstrates otherwise. And no, the "exact form" of the CoGAT test does not mean the same thing as having the answers for any of the CoGAT tests before they were given.

PERHAPS YOU CAN SHOUT IN ALL CAPS SOME MORE ABOUT AAP CHEATING though since you will not be able to produce any evidence of cheating by memorizing answers or even anything from FCPS that shows that they consider AAP test prep to be unethical.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

No. The allegation is that Mercer Publishing's CogAt test prep materials were essentially the same as the form of the test used by FCPS. But it was not a purloined copy of the exam - merely Mercer's work product that successfully mimicked the real exam. The federal court held Mercer did not steal the test and in fact did nothing wrong.

Students have used this strategy for at least 300 years. All students will anticipate what to expect on an upcoming real exam. I did it and you did it growing up. Some kids do it far better than others. This is not cheating. It's actually reflects a component of intelligence!

Having parents that buy a prep test does not reflect a component of a child's intelligence., nor does it show a child's ability to anticipate what to expect on an upcoming real exam. It shows that the child's parent has bought them a prep test. Your argument is silly. Whether it's cheating or not is not going to be solved on this thread, which I'm sure will continue until AAP letters come out and the obsession switches to that.

[Anonymous]

Having parents that buy a prep test does not reflect a component of a child's intelligence., nor does it show a child's ability to anticipate what to expect on an upcoming real exam. It shows that the child's parent has bought them a prep test. Your argument is silly. Whether it's cheating or not is not going to be solved on this thread, which I'm sure will continue until AAP letters come out and the obsession switches to that.

What's the difference between my teaching them the subject matter or buying it? Some kids are lucky for they have parents and school systems that teach them deeply what they need to know for CoGAT. What if I give them my teaching points if their teachers and parents are useless? And watch their IQ and intelligence grow.

You can buy the test prep, buy tuition for a great private school or a year round tutor or mortgage in an excellent school district, get test prep for free from caring and nurturing parents over a lifetime warranty. No frigging difference, madame.

You simply do not want others to benefit from what you provide for your kids. Trying to label children studying for tests as cheaters -- pure blasphemy

[Anonymous]

No, but purchasing the prep test does show a component of the parent's intelligence. And, since IQ is hereditary...

[Anonymous]

No it does not. Just as intelligent as some parents purchasing fancy real estate (7 figures) to feed into the best public school systems or to attend a Big 3 school at $40,000/yr. All of a sudden a few dollars for books and study materials/year is a high crime.