Prepping/Scamming the Cogat

[Anonymous]

Pp: toefl stands for "Test of English as a foreign language." The purpose of the test is to demonstrate that students from non English countries have sufficient English to learn at English language university. Google it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I am going to pick on one of these tests listed TOEFL: The test of english as a foreign language. First of all no american has to take it. The test is designed to determine if the applicant to graduate school is proficient in english, that is will he or she succeed in the US graduate program. What has happened to the test is that, since the US graduate schools are the best in the world, students want to do well. So, they study for the test. They learn what they need to ace the test. In the 80's and 90's when I was involved in the grad school application process, we admitted students we would get applicants from other countries (China mostly) who had near perfect TOEFL scores. They also had perfect GRE scores, etc. Based on the TOEFL scores, we assumed they could speak english So some owuld even be assigned teaching assistantships.

The students arrived at our school, but could not speak nor understand english. They could read english. But they could not be a TA. We had to rework our classes such that they were doing non-teaching jobs. Ok....They would take there classes, cram for the tests, to well in the classes. But, when it was time for their qualifying exams, they largely failed....in fact, none of that cohort graduated. This was in my small program. Talking to faculty at other universities, the story was not unique.

So that is the danger of prepping for the TOEFL: it put the students (in there 20's) in a position where they would fail. Prepping for the CogAT probably has less risk but definitely less gain. My belief is that any kid that can be prepped to a good score would do fine in AAP. But the score is not what is getting them in AAP anyway.

Since when does a multiple choice bubble exam correlate with listening, comprehending and speaking a foreign language?
My high performance in SAT language exams (French) does not translate to listening and speaking French.

Have you ever taken the Toefl or an SAT language exam? I doubt it or you would never make such a preposterous correlation...multiple choice pencil bubbling is equivalent to listening, understanding and speaking a foreign language.

From http://www.ets.org/toefl/ibt/about?WT.ac=toeflhome_ibtabout2_121127:

What Is the TOEFL iBT Test?

The TOEFL iBT test measures your ability to use and understand English at the university level. And it evaluates how well you combine your listening, reading, speaking and writing skills to perform academic tasks.

There are two formats for the TOEFL® test. The format you take depends on the location of your test center. Most test takers take the TOEFL iBT test. Test centers that do not have Internet access offer the Paper-based Test (PBT).

I have not taken the TOEFL, as I am entitled....I grew up in the USA. I HAVE TAKEN THE PSAT, SAT, GRE, and AP tests in the 80's. I have not taken any standardized testing since the GRE's.

What I can tell you is the inflated TOEFL scores caused my program to devalue the scores, and insist on some type of an interview. That is easier now with skype and all, but in 1992, that was a hurdle. We did what we could. But we could not trust the scores (or the GRE's for that matter...we suspected but could not prove systematic cheating -- not prepping -- by people paying other to take the test.

Turning this back to the thread, if the CogAT's are considered as suspect as the TOEFLs are, then the county will devalue them, or make there own test, maybe called the Fairfax ability test.

[Anonymous]

When will the madness stop?

Those recent immigrants with their damn test prep culture not only ruined the GoCat (excuse me CoGAT) but they ruined the TOEFL too.

I will ask again since it would really help bring closure to this 64 page thread and the absurd allegations that this thread boils down to nothing more than the ranting of a bunch of coddled, entitled elitists.

Can someone (anyone?) find a link or official statement where FCPS says that AAP test prep is unethical (or even better is considered cheating)?

Please help if you can.

[Anonymous]

The original Pilgrims were hard workers and preppers. It seems that after a number of generations the entitled have gotten pretty soft to the core.

[Anonymous]

Foreign language is a requirement of most high schools and many students will take the subject SAT in a foreign language. But, Americans are largely unilingual...despite the requirements and bubble tests.

[Anonymous]

...Turning this back to the thread, if the CogAT's are considered as suspect as the TOEFLs are, then the county will devalue them, or make there own test, maybe called the Fairfax ability test.

And guess who will ace the Fairfax ability test? I'll put money on this.

[Anonymous]

Can someone (anyone?) find a link or official statement where FCPS says that AAP test prep is unethical (or even better is considered cheating)?

According to posters here it is the edict of a certain Madame Carol Horn, AAP czar.

[Anonymous]

Yeah, and if she gets your name your children and their children will be flagged for generations to come.

[Anonymous]

I like her rigorous, scientific, and ethical approach.

[Anonymous]

16:09 - 16:37 is the same trollish poster. I work hard. I was born in this country. But, I should be ashamed. Because, I am entitled.

FCPS has changed the test because of he people prepping of the the exact cogat test. That should be enough to tell you, and your brilliant immigrant mind, that, through deduction, FCPS does not approve of prepping off of the exact test.

I am born in the USA, third generation. I speak English, German, Hebrew, and Mandarin. I have a B.A., M.A., and a Ph.D...Not because I am entitled, but because I work hard.

[Anonymous]

16:09 - 16:37 is the same trollish poster. I work hard. I was born in this country. But, I should be ashamed. Because, I am entitled.

FCPS has changed the test because of he people prepping of the the exact cogat test. That should be enough to tell you, and your brilliant immigrant mind, that, through deduction, FCPS does not approve of prepping off of the exact test.

I am born in the USA, third generation. I speak English, German, Hebrew, and Mandarin. I have a B.A., M.A., and a Ph.D...Not because I am entitled, but because I work hard.

I bet you know this because you have a PhD (only flunkies get an MA) and some self-invented random modeling simulation to figure that out. Show me that FCPS does not approve of prepping. All my teachers approved of prepping and they also changed their tests. Your logic defies even achieving a basic high school diploma.

Most teachers approve hard working students who prep for their class and tests. They also changed their tests all the time.

e = sqrt\mc x mc troll

[Anonymous]

"Math phobia" (fear of math) has morphed into "prep phobia".

[Anonymous]

PP: We are not talking about studying. If Prep == Learning the material, then that is fine. We are talking about a test designed to measure how smart a kid is.

Now....what has happened is some people got copies of the test -- that is what exact form means. That test was used under the guise of test prep. Memorizing the exact test is what FCPS prohibits. Just like my daughter is not aloud to copy off her neighbor.

FCPS invented a new test (or formulated) because of the prep. That cost tax payers money. They own the test, so no one else can get a copy of it.

How is this so hard for you to understand? MEMORIZING OR COPYING FROM THE EXACT FORM IS CHEATING!

[Anonymous]

Math and preparation are simply too hard.

[Anonymous]

Math is more than memorization