New bike lane on Old Georgetown Rd in Bethesda

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am pp above. I was returning from Rockville, and started south on OGR from 355. Full of cars going nowhere. At 3:42.

Have you considered using a bike for some of your errands between Bethesda and Rockville? It's a very bikeable distance, the bike lanes are great, and you would avoid sitting in traffic.

I'm looking at Google Traffic right now, 5:00 pm, and Old Georgetown Road is mostly green, with just the regular back-ups at the traffic signals where you would expect there to be back-ups at 5:00 pm on a weekday. The 270 spur and the Inner Loop are solid red. Maybe the bike lanes caused that too.

I was on the road itself. Glad you checked Google traffic.

Nope. Are you a SAHM who can just bike here and there when you choose? And watch the traffic on um, google traffic?

Taking kid to the dentist. Then going grocery shopping further up the pike. Got several bags. Then picking up dry cleaning. So again, a big no.

And my office is many exits away on the beltway, so again, sorry no bikes those days either.

And why don't I live near my office, well let's see...spouse's office is up 270. Maybe we should just own a few homes so we can bike here and there from each one??
Oh, and each time we change jobs we don't want to move our house.

Fair enough???

It's possible to do all of these things on a bike, and in fact, people do do these things on a bike. People do those things on buses, too. You personally may choose not to do them on a bike or a bus, but it's a choice, not a necessity. If it takes you 10 minutes longer to do it in a car, you might re-evaluate your choice of transportation, or you might not - again, that's your choice. We all want to do things in the ways we consider the most convenient and comfortable for us. However, I don't think your desire to do those things in a car in 10 minutes less time, is more important than other people's desires to continue being alive and uninjured.

DP bike advocates really are scoring own goals with absurd comments like these

The reality is MoCo is a sprawling suburb that has been designed for people to use cars, so that is what people use. Adding a bike lane here or there will not change that fundamental reality.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am pp above. I was returning from Rockville, and started south on OGR from 355. Full of cars going nowhere. At 3:42.

Have you considered using a bike for some of your errands between Bethesda and Rockville? It's a very bikeable distance, the bike lanes are great, and you would avoid sitting in traffic.

I'm looking at Google Traffic right now, 5:00 pm, and Old Georgetown Road is mostly green, with just the regular back-ups at the traffic signals where you would expect there to be back-ups at 5:00 pm on a weekday. The 270 spur and the Inner Loop are solid red. Maybe the bike lanes caused that too.

I was on the road itself. Glad you checked Google traffic.

Nope. Are you a SAHM who can just bike here and there when you choose? And watch the traffic on um, google traffic?

Taking kid to the dentist. Then going grocery shopping further up the pike. Got several bags. Then picking up dry cleaning. So again, a big no.

And my office is many exits away on the beltway, so again, sorry no bikes those days either.

And why don't I live near my office, well let's see...spouse's office is up 270. Maybe we should just own a few homes so we can bike here and there from each one??
Oh, and each time we change jobs we don't want to move our house.

Fair enough???

It's possible to do all of these things on a bike, and in fact, people do do these things on a bike. People do those things on buses, too. You personally may choose not to do them on a bike or a bus, but it's a choice, not a necessity. If it takes you 10 minutes longer to do it in a car, you might re-evaluate your choice of transportation, or you might not - again, that's your choice. We all want to do things in the ways we consider the most convenient and comfortable for us. However, I don't think your desire to do those things in a car in 10 minutes less time, is more important than other people's desires to continue being alive and uninjured.

DP bike advocates really are scoring own goals with absurd comments like these

The reality is MoCo is a sprawling suburb that has been designed for people to use cars, so that is what people use. Adding a bike lane here or there will not change that fundamental reality.

It was designed for people to use cars, and now it's being redesigned for people to use other modes of transportation as well.

But yes, I agree with you, we need a network of bike lanes. You build a network one bike lane at a time. The Old Georgetown Road bike lanes are a great start.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am pp above. I was returning from Rockville, and started south on OGR from 355. Full of cars going nowhere. At 3:42.

Have you considered using a bike for some of your errands between Bethesda and Rockville? It's a very bikeable distance, the bike lanes are great, and you would avoid sitting in traffic.

I'm looking at Google Traffic right now, 5:00 pm, and Old Georgetown Road is mostly green, with just the regular back-ups at the traffic signals where you would expect there to be back-ups at 5:00 pm on a weekday. The 270 spur and the Inner Loop are solid red. Maybe the bike lanes caused that too.

I was on the road itself. Glad you checked Google traffic.

Nope. Are you a SAHM who can just bike here and there when you choose? And watch the traffic on um, google traffic?

Taking kid to the dentist. Then going grocery shopping further up the pike. Got several bags. Then picking up dry cleaning. So again, a big no.

And my office is many exits away on the beltway, so again, sorry no bikes those days either.

And why don't I live near my office, well let's see...spouse's office is up 270. Maybe we should just own a few homes so we can bike here and there from each one??
Oh, and each time we change jobs we don't want to move our house.

Fair enough???

It's possible to do all of these things on a bike, and in fact, people do do these things on a bike. People do those things on buses, too. You personally may choose not to do them on a bike or a bus, but it's a choice, not a necessity. If it takes you 10 minutes longer to do it in a car, you might re-evaluate your choice of transportation, or you might not - again, that's your choice. We all want to do things in the ways we consider the most convenient and comfortable for us. However, I don't think your desire to do those things in a car in 10 minutes less time, is more important than other people's desires to continue being alive and uninjured.

DP bike advocates really are scoring own goals with absurd comments like these

The reality is MoCo is a sprawling suburb that has been designed for people to use cars, so that is what people use. Adding a bike lane here or there will not change that fundamental reality.

It was designed for people to use cars, and now it's being redesigned for people to use other modes of transportation as well.

But yes, I agree with you, we need a network of bike lanes. You build a network one bike lane at a time. The Old Georgetown Road bike lanes are a great start.

DP. Your point is moot because the redesign does not comport with existing or future use patterns within the next 30 years as the areas served between the ends of Old Georgetown Rd have been not been identified as a growth corridor.

In any event, if we play your vision out it demonstrates how impractical it is. For the average family of four with dual income and kids with many activities, all food shopping must be done on a weekly basis. The idea that you can do weekly food shopping for your whole family without a car is not possible in any way shape or form and you’re not going to convince people that what they really need to do is to allow corner “bodegas” where they can instead do their grocery shopping that have more limited selection and higher prices. Every grocery store in the area has abundant parking for a reason, whether it’s a surface lot or in a garage.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was on OGR around 8:30 on Monday and didn’t see any traffic backups at all so maybe SHA was right and people are adapting.

Monday was a holiday. Traffic was light.

I have pictures from 8:15 am on Friday where there is basically no traffic on OGR southbound or northbound. But you'll say that's a holiday weekend too. I'll try to get some from next week when it's not a holiday. And then someone can teach me how to post them! But I'm on the street regularly at various times, and really not noticing any significant backups. It used to be horrendous heading north between 5 and 6 -- would take me 1/2 hour to go 2-3 miles to get my kid to karate. That was from 2014-2019.

Can I ask, did you specifically go out to the road on your to take pictures of traffic? Or were you taking pictures from your car while driving to promote traffic safety? Because both scenarios seem very odd.

Did you also criticize the people who have taken photos while driving for the purpose of complaining about the bike lanes on OGR?

So you did you take pictures with phone while driving your car. Proves that you’re a hypocrite about safety but also proves that even for staunch advocates, these lanes are useless.

No, I am a different PP. I don't know what that other PP did. I do not use my phone while driving. What that other PP's post mostly proves (and my experience confirms) is that the bike lanes have not caused any new backups, except initially during construction. As for uselessness, on the contrary, they've made the road safer overall and also far more useable for bicyclists.

To quote a PP:

“The State Highway Administration has already said that their traffic estimates were wrong - they will be looking at this again once the project is complete.”

Oh, you're the poster whose assertions are simply factually wrong about who did what when. There's no sense in further discussion with you.

“ Del. Marc Korman (D-Dist. 16), whose district includes the Old Georgetown Road bike lanes, said in an email that he has asked SHA officials for a post-installation study to see the project’s impact on traffic times, pollution, and car crashes.”
https://bethesdamagazine.com/2022/12/27/residents-called-for-safety-measures-on-old-georgetown-road-then-the-bike-lanes-showed-up/

The best case for bikers is the restoration of three narrow car lanes and smaller bike lanes, with similar improvements to other arterial roads that are space constrained. The best case for drivers is that SHA leaves everything as is but never does something like this to another arterial road.

If SHA leaves the car lanes narrowed, which they should because it's safer, and and they narrow the buffer between the car lanes and the bike lanes, what do you want them to put in the space currently occupied by the buffer between the car lanes and the bike lanes?

^^^Oh never mind, I see what you're saying: cars must have THREE lanes each way, and bicyclists can be squeezed into a narrow, dangerous strip along the curb. No, that's not the best case. Even if it were mathematically possible, it would be unacceptable, but the reality is that it's mathematically impossible.

Narrow lanes + sidewalk buffer. Go ride on sidewalk.

Go argue with the PP who insists that bicyclists are a murderous menace to pedestrians and do not belong on the sidewalk.

NP and obviously haven’t read the whole thread but it seems that PP was pointed out the incongruity of providing dedicated space for cyclists for the stated policy purpose of reducing fear of cycling to encourage more cycling while not providing similar consideration for pedestrians. I personally believe it makes sense to provide space for exclusive use of all transportation modes. So traffic lanes for cars. Bus lanes for buses. Bike lanes for cyclists. Sidewalks for pedestrians.

This sounds great. Reconfigure Old Georgetown Road each way to be one lane for cars, one lane for bicyclists and other people using wheeled micromobility (like scooters, motorized wheelchairs, etc.), one lane (the curb lane) for buses, and the sidewalk for pedestrians.

However, I don't think the Old Georgetown Road complainers would agree that this sounds great. They think it should all be for cars.

Where do you live? Do you go to work for a living?

Why are people so obsessed with the notion that roads should only be built for the maximum convenience of commuters? I have driven on OGR five or six times in the last month and none of them were to get to work. I would have loved to be able to take a bus and think the idea of continuing to reallocate space to users who are not hogging the road in huge empty cars is a fantastic one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am pp above. I was returning from Rockville, and started south on OGR from 355. Full of cars going nowhere. At 3:42.

Have you considered using a bike for some of your errands between Bethesda and Rockville? It's a very bikeable distance, the bike lanes are great, and you would avoid sitting in traffic.

I'm looking at Google Traffic right now, 5:00 pm, and Old Georgetown Road is mostly green, with just the regular back-ups at the traffic signals where you would expect there to be back-ups at 5:00 pm on a weekday. The 270 spur and the Inner Loop are solid red. Maybe the bike lanes caused that too.

I was on the road itself. Glad you checked Google traffic.

Nope. Are you a SAHM who can just bike here and there when you choose? And watch the traffic on um, google traffic?

Taking kid to the dentist. Then going grocery shopping further up the pike. Got several bags. Then picking up dry cleaning. So again, a big no.

And my office is many exits away on the beltway, so again, sorry no bikes those days either.

And why don't I live near my office, well let's see...spouse's office is up 270. Maybe we should just own a few homes so we can bike here and there from each one??
Oh, and each time we change jobs we don't want to move our house.

Fair enough???

It's possible to do all of these things on a bike, and in fact, people do do these things on a bike. People do those things on buses, too. You personally may choose not to do them on a bike or a bus, but it's a choice, not a necessity. If it takes you 10 minutes longer to do it in a car, you might re-evaluate your choice of transportation, or you might not - again, that's your choice. We all want to do things in the ways we consider the most convenient and comfortable for us. However, I don't think your desire to do those things in a car in 10 minutes less time, is more important than other people's desires to continue being alive and uninjured.

DP bike advocates really are scoring own goals with absurd comments like these

The reality is MoCo is a sprawling suburb that has been designed for people to use cars, so that is what people use. Adding a bike lane here or there will not change that fundamental reality.

It was designed for people to use cars, and now it's being redesigned for people to use other modes of transportation as well.

But yes, I agree with you, we need a network of bike lanes. You build a network one bike lane at a time. The Old Georgetown Road bike lanes are a great start.

DP. Your point is moot because the redesign does not comport with existing or future use patterns within the next 30 years as the areas served between the ends of Old Georgetown Rd have been not been identified as a growth corridor.

In any event, if we play your vision out it demonstrates how impractical it is. For the average family of four with dual income and kids with many activities, all food shopping must be done on a weekly basis. The idea that you can do weekly food shopping for your whole family without a car is not possible in any way shape or form and you’re not going to convince people that what they really need to do is to allow corner “bodegas” where they can instead do their grocery shopping that have more limited selection and higher prices. Every grocery store in the area has abundant parking for a reason, whether it’s a surface lot or in a garage.

Bike lanes that actually exist are not moot. Bicyclists who actually use Old Georgetown Road are also not moot.

For the other stuff - you're just saying that this is how car-owning households with children do it right now, therefore that's the only possible way to do it. The logical fallacy is obvious. Under different circumstances, people make different choices. Change is possible. In fact, change is inevitable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am pp above. I was returning from Rockville, and started south on OGR from 355. Full of cars going nowhere. At 3:42.

Have you considered using a bike for some of your errands between Bethesda and Rockville? It's a very bikeable distance, the bike lanes are great, and you would avoid sitting in traffic.

I'm looking at Google Traffic right now, 5:00 pm, and Old Georgetown Road is mostly green, with just the regular back-ups at the traffic signals where you would expect there to be back-ups at 5:00 pm on a weekday. The 270 spur and the Inner Loop are solid red. Maybe the bike lanes caused that too.

I was on the road itself. Glad you checked Google traffic.

Nope. Are you a SAHM who can just bike here and there when you choose? And watch the traffic on um, google traffic?

Taking kid to the dentist. Then going grocery shopping further up the pike. Got several bags. Then picking up dry cleaning. So again, a big no.

And my office is many exits away on the beltway, so again, sorry no bikes those days either.

And why don't I live near my office, well let's see...spouse's office is up 270. Maybe we should just own a few homes so we can bike here and there from each one??
Oh, and each time we change jobs we don't want to move our house.

Fair enough???

It's possible to do all of these things on a bike, and in fact, people do do these things on a bike. People do those things on buses, too. You personally may choose not to do them on a bike or a bus, but it's a choice, not a necessity. If it takes you 10 minutes longer to do it in a car, you might re-evaluate your choice of transportation, or you might not - again, that's your choice. We all want to do things in the ways we consider the most convenient and comfortable for us. However, I don't think your desire to do those things in a car in 10 minutes less time, is more important than other people's desires to continue being alive and uninjured.

DP bike advocates really are scoring own goals with absurd comments like these

The reality is MoCo is a sprawling suburb that has been designed for people to use cars, so that is what people use. Adding a bike lane here or there will not change that fundamental reality.

It was designed for people to use cars, and now it's being redesigned for people to use other modes of transportation as well.

But yes, I agree with you, we need a network of bike lanes. You build a network one bike lane at a time. The Old Georgetown Road bike lanes are a great start.

DP. Your point is moot because the redesign does not comport with existing or future use patterns within the next 30 years as the areas served between the ends of Old Georgetown Rd have been not been identified as a growth corridor.

In any event, if we play your vision out it demonstrates how impractical it is. For the average family of four with dual income and kids with many activities, all food shopping must be done on a weekly basis. The idea that you can do weekly food shopping for your whole family without a car is not possible in any way shape or form and you’re not going to convince people that what they really need to do is to allow corner “bodegas” where they can instead do their grocery shopping that have more limited selection and higher prices. Every grocery store in the area has abundant parking for a reason, whether it’s a surface lot or in a garage.

Bike lanes that actually exist are not moot. Bicyclists who actually use Old Georgetown Road are also not moot.

For the other stuff - you're just saying that this is how car-owning households with children do it right now, therefore that's the only possible way to do it. The logical fallacy is obvious. Under different circumstances, people make different choices. Change is possible. In fact, change is inevitable.

How does a family of four with limited time who can only shop one day a week accomplish that in a bicycle? I would like that explained please.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am pp above. I was returning from Rockville, and started south on OGR from 355. Full of cars going nowhere. At 3:42.

Have you considered using a bike for some of your errands between Bethesda and Rockville? It's a very bikeable distance, the bike lanes are great, and you would avoid sitting in traffic.

I'm looking at Google Traffic right now, 5:00 pm, and Old Georgetown Road is mostly green, with just the regular back-ups at the traffic signals where you would expect there to be back-ups at 5:00 pm on a weekday. The 270 spur and the Inner Loop are solid red. Maybe the bike lanes caused that too.

I was on the road itself. Glad you checked Google traffic.

Nope. Are you a SAHM who can just bike here and there when you choose? And watch the traffic on um, google traffic?

Taking kid to the dentist. Then going grocery shopping further up the pike. Got several bags. Then picking up dry cleaning. So again, a big no.

And my office is many exits away on the beltway, so again, sorry no bikes those days either.

And why don't I live near my office, well let's see...spouse's office is up 270. Maybe we should just own a few homes so we can bike here and there from each one??
Oh, and each time we change jobs we don't want to move our house.

Fair enough???

It's possible to do all of these things on a bike, and in fact, people do do these things on a bike. People do those things on buses, too. You personally may choose not to do them on a bike or a bus, but it's a choice, not a necessity. If it takes you 10 minutes longer to do it in a car, you might re-evaluate your choice of transportation, or you might not - again, that's your choice. We all want to do things in the ways we consider the most convenient and comfortable for us. However, I don't think your desire to do those things in a car in 10 minutes less time, is more important than other people's desires to continue being alive and uninjured.

DP bike advocates really are scoring own goals with absurd comments like these

The reality is MoCo is a sprawling suburb that has been designed for people to use cars, so that is what people use. Adding a bike lane here or there will not change that fundamental reality.

It was designed for people to use cars, and now it's being redesigned for people to use other modes of transportation as well.

But yes, I agree with you, we need a network of bike lanes. You build a network one bike lane at a time. The Old Georgetown Road bike lanes are a great start.

DP. Your point is moot because the redesign does not comport with existing or future use patterns within the next 30 years as the areas served between the ends of Old Georgetown Rd have been not been identified as a growth corridor.

In any event, if we play your vision out it demonstrates how impractical it is. For the average family of four with dual income and kids with many activities, all food shopping must be done on a weekly basis. The idea that you can do weekly food shopping for your whole family without a car is not possible in any way shape or form and you’re not going to convince people that what they really need to do is to allow corner “bodegas” where they can instead do their grocery shopping that have more limited selection and higher prices. Every grocery store in the area has abundant parking for a reason, whether it’s a surface lot or in a garage.

Bike lanes that actually exist are not moot. Bicyclists who actually use Old Georgetown Road are also not moot.

For the other stuff - you're just saying that this is how car-owning households with children do it right now, therefore that's the only possible way to do it. The logical fallacy is obvious. Under different circumstances, people make different choices. Change is possible. In fact, change is inevitable.

How does a family of four with limited time who can only shop one day a week accomplish that in a bicycle? I would like that explained please.

I think that you might benefit from meeting a wider range of people, including people who don't have cars and rely on public transportation. Or, honestly, even people who do have cars, because every car-having, child-at-home-having family I know (including mine) picks up items multiple times a week, while doing other things. The technical term for this is trip-chaining.

Also, read up on cargo bikes, e-bikes, and cargo e-bikes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am pp above. I was returning from Rockville, and started south on OGR from 355. Full of cars going nowhere. At 3:42.

Have you considered using a bike for some of your errands between Bethesda and Rockville? It's a very bikeable distance, the bike lanes are great, and you would avoid sitting in traffic.

I'm looking at Google Traffic right now, 5:00 pm, and Old Georgetown Road is mostly green, with just the regular back-ups at the traffic signals where you would expect there to be back-ups at 5:00 pm on a weekday. The 270 spur and the Inner Loop are solid red. Maybe the bike lanes caused that too.

I was on the road itself. Glad you checked Google traffic.

Nope. Are you a SAHM who can just bike here and there when you choose? And watch the traffic on um, google traffic?

Taking kid to the dentist. Then going grocery shopping further up the pike. Got several bags. Then picking up dry cleaning. So again, a big no.

And my office is many exits away on the beltway, so again, sorry no bikes those days either.

And why don't I live near my office, well let's see...spouse's office is up 270. Maybe we should just own a few homes so we can bike here and there from each one??
Oh, and each time we change jobs we don't want to move our house.

Fair enough???

It's possible to do all of these things on a bike, and in fact, people do do these things on a bike. People do those things on buses, too. You personally may choose not to do them on a bike or a bus, but it's a choice, not a necessity. If it takes you 10 minutes longer to do it in a car, you might re-evaluate your choice of transportation, or you might not - again, that's your choice. We all want to do things in the ways we consider the most convenient and comfortable for us. However, I don't think your desire to do those things in a car in 10 minutes less time, is more important than other people's desires to continue being alive and uninjured.

DP bike advocates really are scoring own goals with absurd comments like these

The reality is MoCo is a sprawling suburb that has been designed for people to use cars, so that is what people use. Adding a bike lane here or there will not change that fundamental reality.

It was designed for people to use cars, and now it's being redesigned for people to use other modes of transportation as well.

But yes, I agree with you, we need a network of bike lanes. You build a network one bike lane at a time. The Old Georgetown Road bike lanes are a great start.

DP. Your point is moot because the redesign does not comport with existing or future use patterns within the next 30 years as the areas served between the ends of Old Georgetown Rd have been not been identified as a growth corridor.

In any event, if we play your vision out it demonstrates how impractical it is. For the average family of four with dual income and kids with many activities, all food shopping must be done on a weekly basis. The idea that you can do weekly food shopping for your whole family without a car is not possible in any way shape or form and you’re not going to convince people that what they really need to do is to allow corner “bodegas” where they can instead do their grocery shopping that have more limited selection and higher prices. Every grocery store in the area has abundant parking for a reason, whether it’s a surface lot or in a garage.

Bike lanes that actually exist are not moot. Bicyclists who actually use Old Georgetown Road are also not moot.

For the other stuff - you're just saying that this is how car-owning households with children do it right now, therefore that's the only possible way to do it. The logical fallacy is obvious. Under different circumstances, people make different choices. Change is possible. In fact, change is inevitable.

How does a family of four with limited time who can only shop one day a week accomplish that in a bicycle? I would like that explained please.

I think that you might benefit from meeting a wider range of people, including people who don't have cars and rely on public transportation. Or, honestly, even people who do have cars, because every car-having, child-at-home-having family I know (including mine) picks up items multiple times a week, while doing other things. The technical term for this is trip-chaining.

Also, read up on cargo bikes, e-bikes, and cargo e-bikes.

It’s great that you’ve decided to orient your lifestyle around committing a significant amount of time to shopping. However, just because you want to use your time inefficiently is not a justification for imposing what is a very niche lifestyle on others. 0.6% of county residents commute by bicycle. There are twice as many vegans than bicycle commuters. They have a better justification for forcing their nice lifestyle on every than you do: health, animal welfare, climate change, habitat protection, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am pp above. I was returning from Rockville, and started south on OGR from 355. Full of cars going nowhere. At 3:42.

Have you considered using a bike for some of your errands between Bethesda and Rockville? It's a very bikeable distance, the bike lanes are great, and you would avoid sitting in traffic.

I'm looking at Google Traffic right now, 5:00 pm, and Old Georgetown Road is mostly green, with just the regular back-ups at the traffic signals where you would expect there to be back-ups at 5:00 pm on a weekday. The 270 spur and the Inner Loop are solid red. Maybe the bike lanes caused that too.

I was on the road itself. Glad you checked Google traffic.

Nope. Are you a SAHM who can just bike here and there when you choose? And watch the traffic on um, google traffic?

Taking kid to the dentist. Then going grocery shopping further up the pike. Got several bags. Then picking up dry cleaning. So again, a big no.

And my office is many exits away on the beltway, so again, sorry no bikes those days either.

And why don't I live near my office, well let's see...spouse's office is up 270. Maybe we should just own a few homes so we can bike here and there from each one??
Oh, and each time we change jobs we don't want to move our house.

Fair enough???

It's possible to do all of these things on a bike, and in fact, people do do these things on a bike. People do those things on buses, too. You personally may choose not to do them on a bike or a bus, but it's a choice, not a necessity. If it takes you 10 minutes longer to do it in a car, you might re-evaluate your choice of transportation, or you might not - again, that's your choice. We all want to do things in the ways we consider the most convenient and comfortable for us. However, I don't think your desire to do those things in a car in 10 minutes less time, is more important than other people's desires to continue being alive and uninjured.

DP bike advocates really are scoring own goals with absurd comments like these

The reality is MoCo is a sprawling suburb that has been designed for people to use cars, so that is what people use. Adding a bike lane here or there will not change that fundamental reality.

It was designed for people to use cars, and now it's being redesigned for people to use other modes of transportation as well.

But yes, I agree with you, we need a network of bike lanes. You build a network one bike lane at a time. The Old Georgetown Road bike lanes are a great start.

DP. Your point is moot because the redesign does not comport with existing or future use patterns within the next 30 years as the areas served between the ends of Old Georgetown Rd have been not been identified as a growth corridor.

In any event, if we play your vision out it demonstrates how impractical it is. For the average family of four with dual income and kids with many activities, all food shopping must be done on a weekly basis. The idea that you can do weekly food shopping for your whole family without a car is not possible in any way shape or form and you’re not going to convince people that what they really need to do is to allow corner “bodegas” where they can instead do their grocery shopping that have more limited selection and higher prices. Every grocery store in the area has abundant parking for a reason, whether it’s a surface lot or in a garage.

Bike lanes that actually exist are not moot. Bicyclists who actually use Old Georgetown Road are also not moot.

For the other stuff - you're just saying that this is how car-owning households with children do it right now, therefore that's the only possible way to do it. The logical fallacy is obvious. Under different circumstances, people make different choices. Change is possible. In fact, change is inevitable.

How does a family of four with limited time who can only shop one day a week accomplish that in a bicycle? I would like that explained please.

I think that you might benefit from meeting a wider range of people, including people who don't have cars and rely on public transportation. Or, honestly, even people who do have cars, because every car-having, child-at-home-having family I know (including mine) picks up items multiple times a week, while doing other things. The technical term for this is trip-chaining.

Also, read up on cargo bikes, e-bikes, and cargo e-bikes.

It’s great that you’ve decided to orient your lifestyle around committing a significant amount of time to shopping. However, just because you want to use your time inefficiently is not a justification for imposing what is a very niche lifestyle on others. 0.6% of county residents commute by bicycle. There are twice as many vegans than bicycle commuters. They have a better justification for forcing their nice lifestyle on every than you do: health, animal welfare, climate change, habitat protection, etc.

As a PP just said: why do people keep focusing exclusively on commute trips?

As another PP just said: Montgomery County was designed for car travel. So it's not surprising that car travel is currently the leading transportation mode.

Bicycles aren't a lifestyle, anymore than cars are a lifestyle. They are a way to get from Point A to Point B. If you choose not to use a bicycle to get from Point A to Point B, that's fine with me. Bike lanes don't force you to do anything. What bike lanes do is enable people to make different choices. What's your justification for continuing to impose your transportation and shopping choices on everyone else?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am pp above. I was returning from Rockville, and started south on OGR from 355. Full of cars going nowhere. At 3:42.

Have you considered using a bike for some of your errands between Bethesda and Rockville? It's a very bikeable distance, the bike lanes are great, and you would avoid sitting in traffic.

I'm looking at Google Traffic right now, 5:00 pm, and Old Georgetown Road is mostly green, with just the regular back-ups at the traffic signals where you would expect there to be back-ups at 5:00 pm on a weekday. The 270 spur and the Inner Loop are solid red. Maybe the bike lanes caused that too.

I was on the road itself. Glad you checked Google traffic.

Nope. Are you a SAHM who can just bike here and there when you choose? And watch the traffic on um, google traffic?

Taking kid to the dentist. Then going grocery shopping further up the pike. Got several bags. Then picking up dry cleaning. So again, a big no.

And my office is many exits away on the beltway, so again, sorry no bikes those days either.

And why don't I live near my office, well let's see...spouse's office is up 270. Maybe we should just own a few homes so we can bike here and there from each one??
Oh, and each time we change jobs we don't want to move our house.

Fair enough???

It's possible to do all of these things on a bike, and in fact, people do do these things on a bike. People do those things on buses, too. You personally may choose not to do them on a bike or a bus, but it's a choice, not a necessity. If it takes you 10 minutes longer to do it in a car, you might re-evaluate your choice of transportation, or you might not - again, that's your choice. We all want to do things in the ways we consider the most convenient and comfortable for us. However, I don't think your desire to do those things in a car in 10 minutes less time, is more important than other people's desires to continue being alive and uninjured.

DP bike advocates really are scoring own goals with absurd comments like these

The reality is MoCo is a sprawling suburb that has been designed for people to use cars, so that is what people use. Adding a bike lane here or there will not change that fundamental reality.

It was designed for people to use cars, and now it's being redesigned for people to use other modes of transportation as well.

But yes, I agree with you, we need a network of bike lanes. You build a network one bike lane at a time. The Old Georgetown Road bike lanes are a great start.

DP. Your point is moot because the redesign does not comport with existing or future use patterns within the next 30 years as the areas served between the ends of Old Georgetown Rd have been not been identified as a growth corridor.

In any event, if we play your vision out it demonstrates how impractical it is. For the average family of four with dual income and kids with many activities, all food shopping must be done on a weekly basis. The idea that you can do weekly food shopping for your whole family without a car is not possible in any way shape or form and you’re not going to convince people that what they really need to do is to allow corner “bodegas” where they can instead do their grocery shopping that have more limited selection and higher prices. Every grocery store in the area has abundant parking for a reason, whether it’s a surface lot or in a garage.

Bike lanes that actually exist are not moot. Bicyclists who actually use Old Georgetown Road are also not moot.

For the other stuff - you're just saying that this is how car-owning households with children do it right now, therefore that's the only possible way to do it. The logical fallacy is obvious. Under different circumstances, people make different choices. Change is possible. In fact, change is inevitable.

How does a family of four with limited time who can only shop one day a week accomplish that in a bicycle? I would like that explained please.

I think that you might benefit from meeting a wider range of people, including people who don't have cars and rely on public transportation. Or, honestly, even people who do have cars, because every car-having, child-at-home-having family I know (including mine) picks up items multiple times a week, while doing other things. The technical term for this is trip-chaining.

Also, read up on cargo bikes, e-bikes, and cargo e-bikes.

It’s great that you’ve decided to orient your lifestyle around committing a significant amount of time to shopping. However, just because you want to use your time inefficiently is not a justification for imposing what is a very niche lifestyle on others. 0.6% of county residents commute by bicycle. There are twice as many vegans than bicycle commuters. They have a better justification for forcing their nice lifestyle on every than you do: health, animal welfare, climate change, habitat protection, etc.

As a PP just said: why do people keep focusing exclusively on commute trips?

As another PP just said: Montgomery County was designed for car travel. So it's not surprising that car travel is currently the leading transportation mode.

Bicycles aren't a lifestyle, anymore than cars are a lifestyle. They are a way to get from Point A to Point B. If you choose not to use a bicycle to get from Point A to Point B, that's fine with me. Bike lanes don't force you to do anything. What bike lanes do is enable people to make different choices. What's your justification for continuing to impose your transportation and shopping choices on everyone else?

Likely because this part of the county is basically a commuter neighborhood/locale. That said, I have no dog in this fight. I live a stones throw from OGR, but wfh, so my usage of that road is frequent but all non peak times. I can tell you the bike lanes have had zero impact on my usual trip times. I have not experienced any delays or extra congestion yet with daily use of this road.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am pp above. I was returning from Rockville, and started south on OGR from 355. Full of cars going nowhere. At 3:42.

Have you considered using a bike for some of your errands between Bethesda and Rockville? It's a very bikeable distance, the bike lanes are great, and you would avoid sitting in traffic.

I'm looking at Google Traffic right now, 5:00 pm, and Old Georgetown Road is mostly green, with just the regular back-ups at the traffic signals where you would expect there to be back-ups at 5:00 pm on a weekday. The 270 spur and the Inner Loop are solid red. Maybe the bike lanes caused that too.

I was on the road itself. Glad you checked Google traffic.

Nope. Are you a SAHM who can just bike here and there when you choose? And watch the traffic on um, google traffic?

Taking kid to the dentist. Then going grocery shopping further up the pike. Got several bags. Then picking up dry cleaning. So again, a big no.

And my office is many exits away on the beltway, so again, sorry no bikes those days either.

And why don't I live near my office, well let's see...spouse's office is up 270. Maybe we should just own a few homes so we can bike here and there from each one??
Oh, and each time we change jobs we don't want to move our house.

Fair enough???

It's possible to do all of these things on a bike, and in fact, people do do these things on a bike. People do those things on buses, too. You personally may choose not to do them on a bike or a bus, but it's a choice, not a necessity. If it takes you 10 minutes longer to do it in a car, you might re-evaluate your choice of transportation, or you might not - again, that's your choice. We all want to do things in the ways we consider the most convenient and comfortable for us. However, I don't think your desire to do those things in a car in 10 minutes less time, is more important than other people's desires to continue being alive and uninjured.

DP bike advocates really are scoring own goals with absurd comments like these

The reality is MoCo is a sprawling suburb that has been designed for people to use cars, so that is what people use. Adding a bike lane here or there will not change that fundamental reality.

It was designed for people to use cars, and now it's being redesigned for people to use other modes of transportation as well.

But yes, I agree with you, we need a network of bike lanes. You build a network one bike lane at a time. The Old Georgetown Road bike lanes are a great start.

DP. Your point is moot because the redesign does not comport with existing or future use patterns within the next 30 years as the areas served between the ends of Old Georgetown Rd have been not been identified as a growth corridor.

In any event, if we play your vision out it demonstrates how impractical it is. For the average family of four with dual income and kids with many activities, all food shopping must be done on a weekly basis. The idea that you can do weekly food shopping for your whole family without a car is not possible in any way shape or form and you’re not going to convince people that what they really need to do is to allow corner “bodegas” where they can instead do their grocery shopping that have more limited selection and higher prices. Every grocery store in the area has abundant parking for a reason, whether it’s a surface lot or in a garage.

Bike lanes that actually exist are not moot. Bicyclists who actually use Old Georgetown Road are also not moot.

For the other stuff - you're just saying that this is how car-owning households with children do it right now, therefore that's the only possible way to do it. The logical fallacy is obvious. Under different circumstances, people make different choices. Change is possible. In fact, change is inevitable.

How does a family of four with limited time who can only shop one day a week accomplish that in a bicycle? I would like that explained please.

I think that you might benefit from meeting a wider range of people, including people who don't have cars and rely on public transportation. Or, honestly, even people who do have cars, because every car-having, child-at-home-having family I know (including mine) picks up items multiple times a week, while doing other things. The technical term for this is trip-chaining.

Also, read up on cargo bikes, e-bikes, and cargo e-bikes.

It’s great that you’ve decided to orient your lifestyle around committing a significant amount of time to shopping. However, just because you want to use your time inefficiently is not a justification for imposing what is a very niche lifestyle on others. 0.6% of county residents commute by bicycle. There are twice as many vegans than bicycle commuters. They have a better justification for forcing their nice lifestyle on every than you do: health, animal welfare, climate change, habitat protection, etc.

As a PP just said: why do people keep focusing exclusively on commute trips?

As another PP just said: Montgomery County was designed for car travel. So it's not surprising that car travel is currently the leading transportation mode.

Bicycles aren't a lifestyle, anymore than cars are a lifestyle. They are a way to get from Point A to Point B. If you choose not to use a bicycle to get from Point A to Point B, that's fine with me. Bike lanes don't force you to do anything. What bike lanes do is enable people to make different choices. What's your justification for continuing to impose your transportation and shopping choices on everyone else?

Bicycles are certainly a lifestyle if you can afford to spend 4x as much time getting places and as a result being less productive with your time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was on OGR around 8:30 on Monday and didn’t see any traffic backups at all so maybe SHA was right and people are adapting.

Monday was a holiday. Traffic was light.

I have pictures from 8:15 am on Friday where there is basically no traffic on OGR southbound or northbound. But you'll say that's a holiday weekend too. I'll try to get some from next week when it's not a holiday. And then someone can teach me how to post them! But I'm on the street regularly at various times, and really not noticing any significant backups. It used to be horrendous heading north between 5 and 6 -- would take me 1/2 hour to go 2-3 miles to get my kid to karate. That was from 2014-2019.

Can I ask, did you specifically go out to the road on your to take pictures of traffic? Or were you taking pictures from your car while driving to promote traffic safety? Because both scenarios seem very odd.

I walk along OGR several times a day pretty much every weekday. I live in the neighborhood and commute by bus/metro and also walk my dog. Sol since this thread started I’ve been paying special attention to the traffic during rush hour and I have to say that the reality I see every day is so different from the disaster that people on this thread are decrying that it seems like I must be living in a different Bethesda and walking on a different OGR.

Anecdote is not data. There will be a study.

That’s fine but will it compare it to 2022 traffic or to 2019 trafffic? I think green tree-dentist poster must have moved in within the last few years. I have such vivid memories of driving my kids up OGR during rush hour in the teens, and it took 20 minutes to go a mile. Anything north of Huntington was awful. The traffic is so much better now!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am pp above. I was returning from Rockville, and started south on OGR from 355. Full of cars going nowhere. At 3:42.

Have you considered using a bike for some of your errands between Bethesda and Rockville? It's a very bikeable distance, the bike lanes are great, and you would avoid sitting in traffic.

I'm looking at Google Traffic right now, 5:00 pm, and Old Georgetown Road is mostly green, with just the regular back-ups at the traffic signals where you would expect there to be back-ups at 5:00 pm on a weekday. The 270 spur and the Inner Loop are solid red. Maybe the bike lanes caused that too.

I was on the road itself. Glad you checked Google traffic.

Nope. Are you a SAHM who can just bike here and there when you choose? And watch the traffic on um, google traffic?

Taking kid to the dentist. Then going grocery shopping further up the pike. Got several bags. Then picking up dry cleaning. So again, a big no.

And my office is many exits away on the beltway, so again, sorry no bikes those days either.

And why don't I live near my office, well let's see...spouse's office is up 270. Maybe we should just own a few homes so we can bike here and there from each one??
Oh, and each time we change jobs we don't want to move our house.

Fair enough???

It's possible to do all of these things on a bike, and in fact, people do do these things on a bike. People do those things on buses, too. You personally may choose not to do them on a bike or a bus, but it's a choice, not a necessity. If it takes you 10 minutes longer to do it in a car, you might re-evaluate your choice of transportation, or you might not - again, that's your choice. We all want to do things in the ways we consider the most convenient and comfortable for us. However, I don't think your desire to do those things in a car in 10 minutes less time, is more important than other people's desires to continue being alive and uninjured.

DP bike advocates really are scoring own goals with absurd comments like these

The reality is MoCo is a sprawling suburb that has been designed for people to use cars, so that is what people use. Adding a bike lane here or there will not change that fundamental reality.

It was designed for people to use cars, and now it's being redesigned for people to use other modes of transportation as well.

But yes, I agree with you, we need a network of bike lanes. You build a network one bike lane at a time. The Old Georgetown Road bike lanes are a great start.

DP. Your point is moot because the redesign does not comport with existing or future use patterns within the next 30 years as the areas served between the ends of Old Georgetown Rd have been not been identified as a growth corridor.

In any event, if we play your vision out it demonstrates how impractical it is. For the average family of four with dual income and kids with many activities, all food shopping must be done on a weekly basis. The idea that you can do weekly food shopping for your whole family without a car is not possible in any way shape or form and you’re not going to convince people that what they really need to do is to allow corner “bodegas” where they can instead do their grocery shopping that have more limited selection and higher prices. Every grocery store in the area has abundant parking for a reason, whether it’s a surface lot or in a garage.

Bike lanes that actually exist are not moot. Bicyclists who actually use Old Georgetown Road are also not moot.

For the other stuff - you're just saying that this is how car-owning households with children do it right now, therefore that's the only possible way to do it. The logical fallacy is obvious. Under different circumstances, people make different choices. Change is possible. In fact, change is inevitable.

How does a family of four with limited time who can only shop one day a week accomplish that in a bicycle? I would like that explained please.

I think that you might benefit from meeting a wider range of people, including people who don't have cars and rely on public transportation. Or, honestly, even people who do have cars, because every car-having, child-at-home-having family I know (including mine) picks up items multiple times a week, while doing other things. The technical term for this is trip-chaining.

Also, read up on cargo bikes, e-bikes, and cargo e-bikes.

It’s great that you’ve decided to orient your lifestyle around committing a significant amount of time to shopping. However, just because you want to use your time inefficiently is not a justification for imposing what is a very niche lifestyle on others. 0.6% of county residents commute by bicycle. There are twice as many vegans than bicycle commuters. They have a better justification for forcing their nice lifestyle on every than you do: health, animal welfare, climate change, habitat protection, etc.

As a PP just said: why do people keep focusing exclusively on commute trips?

As another PP just said: Montgomery County was designed for car travel. So it's not surprising that car travel is currently the leading transportation mode.

Bicycles aren't a lifestyle, anymore than cars are a lifestyle. They are a way to get from Point A to Point B. If you choose not to use a bicycle to get from Point A to Point B, that's fine with me. Bike lanes don't force you to do anything. What bike lanes do is enable people to make different choices. What's your justification for continuing to impose your transportation and shopping choices on everyone else?

Bicycles are certainly a lifestyle if you can afford to spend 4x as much time getting places and as a result being less productive with your time.

Yes, bicycles ($100) and buses ($1) are a "lifestyle" for people who can't afford cars ($50,000 plus $10,000 per year), and yes, it's another time tax on being poor. Bike lanes and bus lanes both help reduce that time tax. It is kind of ironic for you to talk about unproductive uses of time, what with all of the complaints from drivers about all of the time they're wasting sitting in traffic in their cars.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am pp above. I was returning from Rockville, and started south on OGR from 355. Full of cars going nowhere. At 3:42.

Have you considered using a bike for some of your errands between Bethesda and Rockville? It's a very bikeable distance, the bike lanes are great, and you would avoid sitting in traffic.

I'm looking at Google Traffic right now, 5:00 pm, and Old Georgetown Road is mostly green, with just the regular back-ups at the traffic signals where you would expect there to be back-ups at 5:00 pm on a weekday. The 270 spur and the Inner Loop are solid red. Maybe the bike lanes caused that too.

I was on the road itself. Glad you checked Google traffic.

Nope. Are you a SAHM who can just bike here and there when you choose? And watch the traffic on um, google traffic?

Taking kid to the dentist. Then going grocery shopping further up the pike. Got several bags. Then picking up dry cleaning. So again, a big no.

And my office is many exits away on the beltway, so again, sorry no bikes those days either.

And why don't I live near my office, well let's see...spouse's office is up 270. Maybe we should just own a few homes so we can bike here and there from each one??
Oh, and each time we change jobs we don't want to move our house.

Fair enough???

It's possible to do all of these things on a bike, and in fact, people do do these things on a bike. People do those things on buses, too. You personally may choose not to do them on a bike or a bus, but it's a choice, not a necessity. If it takes you 10 minutes longer to do it in a car, you might re-evaluate your choice of transportation, or you might not - again, that's your choice. We all want to do things in the ways we consider the most convenient and comfortable for us. However, I don't think your desire to do those things in a car in 10 minutes less time, is more important than other people's desires to continue being alive and uninjured.

DP bike advocates really are scoring own goals with absurd comments like these

The reality is MoCo is a sprawling suburb that has been designed for people to use cars, so that is what people use. Adding a bike lane here or there will not change that fundamental reality.

It was designed for people to use cars, and now it's being redesigned for people to use other modes of transportation as well.

But yes, I agree with you, we need a network of bike lanes. You build a network one bike lane at a time. The Old Georgetown Road bike lanes are a great start.

DP. Your point is moot because the redesign does not comport with existing or future use patterns within the next 30 years as the areas served between the ends of Old Georgetown Rd have been not been identified as a growth corridor.

In any event, if we play your vision out it demonstrates how impractical it is. For the average family of four with dual income and kids with many activities, all food shopping must be done on a weekly basis. The idea that you can do weekly food shopping for your whole family without a car is not possible in any way shape or form and you’re not going to convince people that what they really need to do is to allow corner “bodegas” where they can instead do their grocery shopping that have more limited selection and higher prices. Every grocery store in the area has abundant parking for a reason, whether it’s a surface lot or in a garage.

Bike lanes that actually exist are not moot. Bicyclists who actually use Old Georgetown Road are also not moot.

For the other stuff - you're just saying that this is how car-owning households with children do it right now, therefore that's the only possible way to do it. The logical fallacy is obvious. Under different circumstances, people make different choices. Change is possible. In fact, change is inevitable.

How does a family of four with limited time who can only shop one day a week accomplish that in a bicycle? I would like that explained please.

I think that you might benefit from meeting a wider range of people, including people who don't have cars and rely on public transportation. Or, honestly, even people who do have cars, because every car-having, child-at-home-having family I know (including mine) picks up items multiple times a week, while doing other things. The technical term for this is trip-chaining.

Also, read up on cargo bikes, e-bikes, and cargo e-bikes.

It’s great that you’ve decided to orient your lifestyle around committing a significant amount of time to shopping. However, just because you want to use your time inefficiently is not a justification for imposing what is a very niche lifestyle on others. 0.6% of county residents commute by bicycle. There are twice as many vegans than bicycle commuters. They have a better justification for forcing their nice lifestyle on every than you do: health, animal welfare, climate change, habitat protection, etc.

As a PP just said: why do people keep focusing exclusively on commute trips?

As another PP just said: Montgomery County was designed for car travel. So it's not surprising that car travel is currently the leading transportation mode.

Bicycles aren't a lifestyle, anymore than cars are a lifestyle. They are a way to get from Point A to Point B. If you choose not to use a bicycle to get from Point A to Point B, that's fine with me. Bike lanes don't force you to do anything. What bike lanes do is enable people to make different choices. What's your justification for continuing to impose your transportation and shopping choices on everyone else?

Bicycles are certainly a lifestyle if you can afford to spend 4x as much time getting places and as a result being less productive with your time.

Yes, bicycles ($100) and buses ($1) are a "lifestyle" for people who can't afford cars ($50,000 plus $10,000 per year), and yes, it's another time tax on being poor. Bike lanes and bus lanes both help reduce that time tax. It is kind of ironic for you to talk about unproductive uses of time, what with all of the complaints from drivers about all of the time they're wasting sitting in traffic in their cars.

If you don’t think there is a cost to your time then you’re welcome to come wait at my house for 5 hours and I will give you a nickel.

How you choose to spend your leisure time is up to you. I prefer to spend it with my family. You prefer to spend it biking around doing errands. There is nothing wrong with either choice but it is reflective of lifestyle choices.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am pp above. I was returning from Rockville, and started south on OGR from 355. Full of cars going nowhere. At 3:42.

Have you considered using a bike for some of your errands between Bethesda and Rockville? It's a very bikeable distance, the bike lanes are great, and you would avoid sitting in traffic.

I'm looking at Google Traffic right now, 5:00 pm, and Old Georgetown Road is mostly green, with just the regular back-ups at the traffic signals where you would expect there to be back-ups at 5:00 pm on a weekday. The 270 spur and the Inner Loop are solid red. Maybe the bike lanes caused that too.

I was on the road itself. Glad you checked Google traffic.

Nope. Are you a SAHM who can just bike here and there when you choose? And watch the traffic on um, google traffic?

Taking kid to the dentist. Then going grocery shopping further up the pike. Got several bags. Then picking up dry cleaning. So again, a big no.

And my office is many exits away on the beltway, so again, sorry no bikes those days either.

And why don't I live near my office, well let's see...spouse's office is up 270. Maybe we should just own a few homes so we can bike here and there from each one??
Oh, and each time we change jobs we don't want to move our house.

Fair enough???

It's possible to do all of these things on a bike, and in fact, people do do these things on a bike. People do those things on buses, too. You personally may choose not to do them on a bike or a bus, but it's a choice, not a necessity. If it takes you 10 minutes longer to do it in a car, you might re-evaluate your choice of transportation, or you might not - again, that's your choice. We all want to do things in the ways we consider the most convenient and comfortable for us. However, I don't think your desire to do those things in a car in 10 minutes less time, is more important than other people's desires to continue being alive and uninjured.

DP bike advocates really are scoring own goals with absurd comments like these

The reality is MoCo is a sprawling suburb that has been designed for people to use cars, so that is what people use. Adding a bike lane here or there will not change that fundamental reality.

It was designed for people to use cars, and now it's being redesigned for people to use other modes of transportation as well.

But yes, I agree with you, we need a network of bike lanes. You build a network one bike lane at a time. The Old Georgetown Road bike lanes are a great start.

DP. Your point is moot because the redesign does not comport with existing or future use patterns within the next 30 years as the areas served between the ends of Old Georgetown Rd have been not been identified as a growth corridor.

In any event, if we play your vision out it demonstrates how impractical it is. For the average family of four with dual income and kids with many activities, all food shopping must be done on a weekly basis. The idea that you can do weekly food shopping for your whole family without a car is not possible in any way shape or form and you’re not going to convince people that what they really need to do is to allow corner “bodegas” where they can instead do their grocery shopping that have more limited selection and higher prices. Every grocery store in the area has abundant parking for a reason, whether it’s a surface lot or in a garage.

Bike lanes that actually exist are not moot. Bicyclists who actually use Old Georgetown Road are also not moot.

For the other stuff - you're just saying that this is how car-owning households with children do it right now, therefore that's the only possible way to do it. The logical fallacy is obvious. Under different circumstances, people make different choices. Change is possible. In fact, change is inevitable.

How does a family of four with limited time who can only shop one day a week accomplish that in a bicycle? I would like that explained please.

I think that you might benefit from meeting a wider range of people, including people who don't have cars and rely on public transportation. Or, honestly, even people who do have cars, because every car-having, child-at-home-having family I know (including mine) picks up items multiple times a week, while doing other things. The technical term for this is trip-chaining.

Also, read up on cargo bikes, e-bikes, and cargo e-bikes.

It’s great that you’ve decided to orient your lifestyle around committing a significant amount of time to shopping. However, just because you want to use your time inefficiently is not a justification for imposing what is a very niche lifestyle on others. 0.6% of county residents commute by bicycle. There are twice as many vegans than bicycle commuters. They have a better justification for forcing their nice lifestyle on every than you do: health, animal welfare, climate change, habitat protection, etc.

As a PP just said: why do people keep focusing exclusively on commute trips?

As another PP just said: Montgomery County was designed for car travel. So it's not surprising that car travel is currently the leading transportation mode.

Bicycles aren't a lifestyle, anymore than cars are a lifestyle. They are a way to get from Point A to Point B. If you choose not to use a bicycle to get from Point A to Point B, that's fine with me. Bike lanes don't force you to do anything. What bike lanes do is enable people to make different choices. What's your justification for continuing to impose your transportation and shopping choices on everyone else?

Bicycles are certainly a lifestyle if you can afford to spend 4x as much time getting places and as a result being less productive with your time.

Yes, bicycles ($100) and buses ($1) are a "lifestyle" for people who can't afford cars ($50,000 plus $10,000 per year), and yes, it's another time tax on being poor. Bike lanes and bus lanes both help reduce that time tax. It is kind of ironic for you to talk about unproductive uses of time, what with all of the complaints from drivers about all of the time they're wasting sitting in traffic in their cars.

If you don’t think there is a cost to your time then you’re welcome to come wait at my house for 5 hours and I will give you a nickel.

How you choose to spend your leisure time is up to you. I prefer to spend it with my family. You prefer to spend it biking around doing errands. There is nothing wrong with either choice but it is reflective of lifestyle choices.

You prefer to spend it sitting in traffic in your car, and posting complaints on DCUM about sitting in traffic in your car. As you say, it's a choice.