New bike lane on Old Georgetown Rd in Bethesda

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was on OGR around 8:30 on Monday and didn’t see any traffic backups at all so maybe SHA was right and people are adapting.

Monday was a holiday. Traffic was light.

I have pictures from 8:15 am on Friday where there is basically no traffic on OGR southbound or northbound. But you'll say that's a holiday weekend too. I'll try to get some from next week when it's not a holiday. And then someone can teach me how to post them! But I'm on the street regularly at various times, and really not noticing any significant backups. It used to be horrendous heading north between 5 and 6 -- would take me 1/2 hour to go 2-3 miles to get my kid to karate. That was from 2014-2019.

Can I ask, did you specifically go out to the road on your to take pictures of traffic? Or were you taking pictures from your car while driving to promote traffic safety? Because both scenarios seem very odd.

Did you also criticize the people who have taken photos while driving for the purpose of complaining about the bike lanes on OGR?

So you did you take pictures with phone while driving your car. Proves that you’re a hypocrite about safety but also proves that even for staunch advocates, these lanes are useless.

No, I am a different PP. I don't know what that other PP did. I do not use my phone while driving. What that other PP's post mostly proves (and my experience confirms) is that the bike lanes have not caused any new backups, except initially during construction. As for uselessness, on the contrary, they've made the road safer overall and also far more useable for bicyclists.

To quote a PP:

“The State Highway Administration has already said that their traffic estimates were wrong - they will be looking at this again once the project is complete.”

Oh, you're the poster whose assertions are simply factually wrong about who did what when. There's no sense in further discussion with you.

“ Del. Marc Korman (D-Dist. 16), whose district includes the Old Georgetown Road bike lanes, said in an email that he has asked SHA officials for a post-installation study to see the project’s impact on traffic times, pollution, and car crashes.”
https://bethesdamagazine.com/2022/12/27/residents-called-for-safety-measures-on-old-georgetown-road-then-the-bike-lanes-showed-up/

The best case for bikers is the restoration of three narrow car lanes and smaller bike lanes, with similar improvements to other arterial roads that are space constrained. The best case for drivers is that SHA leaves everything as is but never does something like this to another arterial road.

If SHA leaves the car lanes narrowed, which they should because it's safer, and and they narrow the buffer between the car lanes and the bike lanes, what do you want them to put in the space currently occupied by the buffer between the car lanes and the bike lanes?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was on OGR around 8:30 on Monday and didn’t see any traffic backups at all so maybe SHA was right and people are adapting.

Monday was a holiday. Traffic was light.

I have pictures from 8:15 am on Friday where there is basically no traffic on OGR southbound or northbound. But you'll say that's a holiday weekend too. I'll try to get some from next week when it's not a holiday. And then someone can teach me how to post them! But I'm on the street regularly at various times, and really not noticing any significant backups. It used to be horrendous heading north between 5 and 6 -- would take me 1/2 hour to go 2-3 miles to get my kid to karate. That was from 2014-2019.

Can I ask, did you specifically go out to the road on your to take pictures of traffic? Or were you taking pictures from your car while driving to promote traffic safety? Because both scenarios seem very odd.

Did you also criticize the people who have taken photos while driving for the purpose of complaining about the bike lanes on OGR?

So you did you take pictures with phone while driving your car. Proves that you’re a hypocrite about safety but also proves that even for staunch advocates, these lanes are useless.

No, I am a different PP. I don't know what that other PP did. I do not use my phone while driving. What that other PP's post mostly proves (and my experience confirms) is that the bike lanes have not caused any new backups, except initially during construction. As for uselessness, on the contrary, they've made the road safer overall and also far more useable for bicyclists.

To quote a PP:

“The State Highway Administration has already said that their traffic estimates were wrong - they will be looking at this again once the project is complete.”

Oh, you're the poster whose assertions are simply factually wrong about who did what when. There's no sense in further discussion with you.

“ Del. Marc Korman (D-Dist. 16), whose district includes the Old Georgetown Road bike lanes, said in an email that he has asked SHA officials for a post-installation study to see the project’s impact on traffic times, pollution, and car crashes.”
https://bethesdamagazine.com/2022/12/27/residents-called-for-safety-measures-on-old-georgetown-road-then-the-bike-lanes-showed-up/

The best case for bikers is the restoration of three narrow car lanes and smaller bike lanes, with similar improvements to other arterial roads that are space constrained. The best case for drivers is that SHA leaves everything as is but never does something like this to another arterial road.

If SHA leaves the car lanes narrowed, which they should because it's safer, and and they narrow the buffer between the car lanes and the bike lanes, what do you want them to put in the space currently occupied by the buffer between the car lanes and the bike lanes?

^^^Oh never mind, I see what you're saying: cars must have THREE lanes each way, and bicyclists can be squeezed into a narrow, dangerous strip along the curb. No, that's not the best case. Even if it were mathematically possible, it would be unacceptable, but the reality is that it's mathematically impossible.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was on OGR around 8:30 on Monday and didn’t see any traffic backups at all so maybe SHA was right and people are adapting.

Monday was a holiday. Traffic was light.

I have pictures from 8:15 am on Friday where there is basically no traffic on OGR southbound or northbound. But you'll say that's a holiday weekend too. I'll try to get some from next week when it's not a holiday. And then someone can teach me how to post them! But I'm on the street regularly at various times, and really not noticing any significant backups. It used to be horrendous heading north between 5 and 6 -- would take me 1/2 hour to go 2-3 miles to get my kid to karate. That was from 2014-2019.

Can I ask, did you specifically go out to the road on your to take pictures of traffic? Or were you taking pictures from your car while driving to promote traffic safety? Because both scenarios seem very odd.

Did you also criticize the people who have taken photos while driving for the purpose of complaining about the bike lanes on OGR?

So you did you take pictures with phone while driving your car. Proves that you’re a hypocrite about safety but also proves that even for staunch advocates, these lanes are useless.

No, I am a different PP. I don't know what that other PP did. I do not use my phone while driving. What that other PP's post mostly proves (and my experience confirms) is that the bike lanes have not caused any new backups, except initially during construction. As for uselessness, on the contrary, they've made the road safer overall and also far more useable for bicyclists.

To quote a PP:

“The State Highway Administration has already said that their traffic estimates were wrong - they will be looking at this again once the project is complete.”

Oh, you're the poster whose assertions are simply factually wrong about who did what when. There's no sense in further discussion with you.

“ Del. Marc Korman (D-Dist. 16), whose district includes the Old Georgetown Road bike lanes, said in an email that he has asked SHA officials for a post-installation study to see the project’s impact on traffic times, pollution, and car crashes.”
https://bethesdamagazine.com/2022/12/27/residents-called-for-safety-measures-on-old-georgetown-road-then-the-bike-lanes-showed-up/

The best case for bikers is the restoration of three narrow car lanes and smaller bike lanes, with similar improvements to other arterial roads that are space constrained. The best case for drivers is that SHA leaves everything as is but never does something like this to another arterial road.

If SHA leaves the car lanes narrowed, which they should because it's safer, and and they narrow the buffer between the car lanes and the bike lanes, what do you want them to put in the space currently occupied by the buffer between the car lanes and the bike lanes?

^^^Oh never mind, I see what you're saying: cars must have THREE lanes each way, and bicyclists can be squeezed into a narrow, dangerous strip along the curb. No, that's not the best case. Even if it were mathematically possible, it would be unacceptable, but the reality is that it's mathematically impossible.

Narrow lanes + sidewalk buffer. Go ride on sidewalk.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was on OGR around 8:30 on Monday and didn’t see any traffic backups at all so maybe SHA was right and people are adapting.

Monday was a holiday. Traffic was light.

I have pictures from 8:15 am on Friday where there is basically no traffic on OGR southbound or northbound. But you'll say that's a holiday weekend too. I'll try to get some from next week when it's not a holiday. And then someone can teach me how to post them! But I'm on the street regularly at various times, and really not noticing any significant backups. It used to be horrendous heading north between 5 and 6 -- would take me 1/2 hour to go 2-3 miles to get my kid to karate. That was from 2014-2019.

Can I ask, did you specifically go out to the road on your to take pictures of traffic? Or were you taking pictures from your car while driving to promote traffic safety? Because both scenarios seem very odd.

Did you also criticize the people who have taken photos while driving for the purpose of complaining about the bike lanes on OGR?

So you did you take pictures with phone while driving your car. Proves that you’re a hypocrite about safety but also proves that even for staunch advocates, these lanes are useless.

No, I am a different PP. I don't know what that other PP did. I do not use my phone while driving. What that other PP's post mostly proves (and my experience confirms) is that the bike lanes have not caused any new backups, except initially during construction. As for uselessness, on the contrary, they've made the road safer overall and also far more useable for bicyclists.

To quote a PP:

“The State Highway Administration has already said that their traffic estimates were wrong - they will be looking at this again once the project is complete.”

Oh, you're the poster whose assertions are simply factually wrong about who did what when. There's no sense in further discussion with you.

“ Del. Marc Korman (D-Dist. 16), whose district includes the Old Georgetown Road bike lanes, said in an email that he has asked SHA officials for a post-installation study to see the project’s impact on traffic times, pollution, and car crashes.”
https://bethesdamagazine.com/2022/12/27/residents-called-for-safety-measures-on-old-georgetown-road-then-the-bike-lanes-showed-up/

The best case for bikers is the restoration of three narrow car lanes and smaller bike lanes, with similar improvements to other arterial roads that are space constrained. The best case for drivers is that SHA leaves everything as is but never does something like this to another arterial road.

My expectation is that regardless of the outcome, this ends any further expansion of bike lanes on state highways or major arterials.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was on OGR around 8:30 on Monday and didn’t see any traffic backups at all so maybe SHA was right and people are adapting.

Monday was a holiday. Traffic was light.

I have pictures from 8:15 am on Friday where there is basically no traffic on OGR southbound or northbound. But you'll say that's a holiday weekend too. I'll try to get some from next week when it's not a holiday. And then someone can teach me how to post them! But I'm on the street regularly at various times, and really not noticing any significant backups. It used to be horrendous heading north between 5 and 6 -- would take me 1/2 hour to go 2-3 miles to get my kid to karate. That was from 2014-2019.

Can I ask, did you specifically go out to the road on your to take pictures of traffic? Or were you taking pictures from your car while driving to promote traffic safety? Because both scenarios seem very odd.

I walk along OGR several times a day pretty much every weekday. I live in the neighborhood and commute by bus/metro and also walk my dog. Sol since this thread started I’ve been paying special attention to the traffic during rush hour and I have to say that the reality I see every day is so different from the disaster that people on this thread are decrying that it seems like I must be living in a different Bethesda and walking on a different OGR.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was on OGR around 8:30 on Monday and didn’t see any traffic backups at all so maybe SHA was right and people are adapting.

Monday was a holiday. Traffic was light.

I have pictures from 8:15 am on Friday where there is basically no traffic on OGR southbound or northbound. But you'll say that's a holiday weekend too. I'll try to get some from next week when it's not a holiday. And then someone can teach me how to post them! But I'm on the street regularly at various times, and really not noticing any significant backups. It used to be horrendous heading north between 5 and 6 -- would take me 1/2 hour to go 2-3 miles to get my kid to karate. That was from 2014-2019.

Can I ask, did you specifically go out to the road on your to take pictures of traffic? Or were you taking pictures from your car while driving to promote traffic safety? Because both scenarios seem very odd.

I walk along OGR several times a day pretty much every weekday. I live in the neighborhood and commute by bus/metro and also walk my dog. Sol since this thread started I’ve been paying special attention to the traffic during rush hour and I have to say that the reality I see every day is so different from the disaster that people on this thread are decrying that it seems like I must be living in a different Bethesda and walking on a different OGR.

Anecdote is not data. There will be a study.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was on OGR around 8:30 on Monday and didn’t see any traffic backups at all so maybe SHA was right and people are adapting.

Monday was a holiday. Traffic was light.

I have pictures from 8:15 am on Friday where there is basically no traffic on OGR southbound or northbound. But you'll say that's a holiday weekend too. I'll try to get some from next week when it's not a holiday. And then someone can teach me how to post them! But I'm on the street regularly at various times, and really not noticing any significant backups. It used to be horrendous heading north between 5 and 6 -- would take me 1/2 hour to go 2-3 miles to get my kid to karate. That was from 2014-2019.

Can I ask, did you specifically go out to the road on your to take pictures of traffic? Or were you taking pictures from your car while driving to promote traffic safety? Because both scenarios seem very odd.

Did you also criticize the people who have taken photos while driving for the purpose of complaining about the bike lanes on OGR?

So you did you take pictures with phone while driving your car. Proves that you’re a hypocrite about safety but also proves that even for staunch advocates, these lanes are useless.

No, I am a different PP. I don't know what that other PP did. I do not use my phone while driving. What that other PP's post mostly proves (and my experience confirms) is that the bike lanes have not caused any new backups, except initially during construction. As for uselessness, on the contrary, they've made the road safer overall and also far more useable for bicyclists.

To quote a PP:

“The State Highway Administration has already said that their traffic estimates were wrong - they will be looking at this again once the project is complete.”

Oh, you're the poster whose assertions are simply factually wrong about who did what when. There's no sense in further discussion with you.

“ Del. Marc Korman (D-Dist. 16), whose district includes the Old Georgetown Road bike lanes, said in an email that he has asked SHA officials for a post-installation study to see the project’s impact on traffic times, pollution, and car crashes.”
https://bethesdamagazine.com/2022/12/27/residents-called-for-safety-measures-on-old-georgetown-road-then-the-bike-lanes-showed-up/

The best case for bikers is the restoration of three narrow car lanes and smaller bike lanes, with similar improvements to other arterial roads that are space constrained. The best case for drivers is that SHA leaves everything as is but never does something like this to another arterial road.

If SHA leaves the car lanes narrowed, which they should because it's safer, and and they narrow the buffer between the car lanes and the bike lanes, what do you want them to put in the space currently occupied by the buffer between the car lanes and the bike lanes?

^^^Oh never mind, I see what you're saying: cars must have THREE lanes each way, and bicyclists can be squeezed into a narrow, dangerous strip along the curb. No, that's not the best case. Even if it were mathematically possible, it would be unacceptable, but the reality is that it's mathematically impossible.

Narrow lanes + sidewalk buffer. Go ride on sidewalk.

Go argue with the PP who insists that bicyclists are a murderous menace to pedestrians and do not belong on the sidewalk.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was on OGR around 8:30 on Monday and didn’t see any traffic backups at all so maybe SHA was right and people are adapting.

Monday was a holiday. Traffic was light.

I have pictures from 8:15 am on Friday where there is basically no traffic on OGR southbound or northbound. But you'll say that's a holiday weekend too. I'll try to get some from next week when it's not a holiday. And then someone can teach me how to post them! But I'm on the street regularly at various times, and really not noticing any significant backups. It used to be horrendous heading north between 5 and 6 -- would take me 1/2 hour to go 2-3 miles to get my kid to karate. That was from 2014-2019.

Can I ask, did you specifically go out to the road on your to take pictures of traffic? Or were you taking pictures from your car while driving to promote traffic safety? Because both scenarios seem very odd.

Did you also criticize the people who have taken photos while driving for the purpose of complaining about the bike lanes on OGR?

So you did you take pictures with phone while driving your car. Proves that you’re a hypocrite about safety but also proves that even for staunch advocates, these lanes are useless.

No, I am a different PP. I don't know what that other PP did. I do not use my phone while driving. What that other PP's post mostly proves (and my experience confirms) is that the bike lanes have not caused any new backups, except initially during construction. As for uselessness, on the contrary, they've made the road safer overall and also far more useable for bicyclists.

To quote a PP:

“The State Highway Administration has already said that their traffic estimates were wrong - they will be looking at this again once the project is complete.”

Oh, you're the poster whose assertions are simply factually wrong about who did what when. There's no sense in further discussion with you.

“ Del. Marc Korman (D-Dist. 16), whose district includes the Old Georgetown Road bike lanes, said in an email that he has asked SHA officials for a post-installation study to see the project’s impact on traffic times, pollution, and car crashes.”
https://bethesdamagazine.com/2022/12/27/residents-called-for-safety-measures-on-old-georgetown-road-then-the-bike-lanes-showed-up/

The best case for bikers is the restoration of three narrow car lanes and smaller bike lanes, with similar improvements to other arterial roads that are space constrained. The best case for drivers is that SHA leaves everything as is but never does something like this to another arterial road.

If SHA leaves the car lanes narrowed, which they should because it's safer, and and they narrow the buffer between the car lanes and the bike lanes, what do you want them to put in the space currently occupied by the buffer between the car lanes and the bike lanes?

^^^Oh never mind, I see what you're saying: cars must have THREE lanes each way, and bicyclists can be squeezed into a narrow, dangerous strip along the curb. No, that's not the best case. Even if it were mathematically possible, it would be unacceptable, but the reality is that it's mathematically impossible.

Narrow lanes + sidewalk buffer. Go ride on sidewalk.

Go argue with the PP who insists that bicyclists are a murderous menace to pedestrians and do not belong on the sidewalk.

NP and obviously haven’t read the whole thread but it seems that PP was pointed out the incongruity of providing dedicated space for cyclists for the stated policy purpose of reducing fear of cycling to encourage more cycling while not providing similar consideration for pedestrians. I personally believe it makes sense to provide space for exclusive use of all transportation modes. So traffic lanes for cars. Bus lanes for buses. Bike lanes for cyclists. Sidewalks for pedestrians.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was on OGR around 8:30 on Monday and didn’t see any traffic backups at all so maybe SHA was right and people are adapting.

Monday was a holiday. Traffic was light.

I have pictures from 8:15 am on Friday where there is basically no traffic on OGR southbound or northbound. But you'll say that's a holiday weekend too. I'll try to get some from next week when it's not a holiday. And then someone can teach me how to post them! But I'm on the street regularly at various times, and really not noticing any significant backups. It used to be horrendous heading north between 5 and 6 -- would take me 1/2 hour to go 2-3 miles to get my kid to karate. That was from 2014-2019.

Can I ask, did you specifically go out to the road on your to take pictures of traffic? Or were you taking pictures from your car while driving to promote traffic safety? Because both scenarios seem very odd.

I walk along OGR several times a day pretty much every weekday. I live in the neighborhood and commute by bus/metro and also walk my dog. Sol since this thread started I’ve been paying special attention to the traffic during rush hour and I have to say that the reality I see every day is so different from the disaster that people on this thread are decrying that it seems like I must be living in a different Bethesda and walking on a different OGR.

you must. I commute during actual commuting times. Many times a week.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was on OGR around 8:30 on Monday and didn’t see any traffic backups at all so maybe SHA was right and people are adapting.

Monday was a holiday. Traffic was light.

I have pictures from 8:15 am on Friday where there is basically no traffic on OGR southbound or northbound. But you'll say that's a holiday weekend too. I'll try to get some from next week when it's not a holiday. And then someone can teach me how to post them! But I'm on the street regularly at various times, and really not noticing any significant backups. It used to be horrendous heading north between 5 and 6 -- would take me 1/2 hour to go 2-3 miles to get my kid to karate. That was from 2014-2019.

Can I ask, did you specifically go out to the road on your to take pictures of traffic? Or were you taking pictures from your car while driving to promote traffic safety? Because both scenarios seem very odd.

Did you also criticize the people who have taken photos while driving for the purpose of complaining about the bike lanes on OGR?

So you did you take pictures with phone while driving your car. Proves that you’re a hypocrite about safety but also proves that even for staunch advocates, these lanes are useless.

No, I am a different PP. I don't know what that other PP did. I do not use my phone while driving. What that other PP's post mostly proves (and my experience confirms) is that the bike lanes have not caused any new backups, except initially during construction. As for uselessness, on the contrary, they've made the road safer overall and also far more useable for bicyclists.

To quote a PP:

“The State Highway Administration has already said that their traffic estimates were wrong - they will be looking at this again once the project is complete.”

Oh, you're the poster whose assertions are simply factually wrong about who did what when. There's no sense in further discussion with you.

“ Del. Marc Korman (D-Dist. 16), whose district includes the Old Georgetown Road bike lanes, said in an email that he has asked SHA officials for a post-installation study to see the project’s impact on traffic times, pollution, and car crashes.”
https://bethesdamagazine.com/2022/12/27/residents-called-for-safety-measures-on-old-georgetown-road-then-the-bike-lanes-showed-up/

The best case for bikers is the restoration of three narrow car lanes and smaller bike lanes, with similar improvements to other arterial roads that are space constrained. The best case for drivers is that SHA leaves everything as is but never does something like this to another arterial road.

If SHA leaves the car lanes narrowed, which they should because it's safer, and and they narrow the buffer between the car lanes and the bike lanes, what do you want them to put in the space currently occupied by the buffer between the car lanes and the bike lanes?

^^^Oh never mind, I see what you're saying: cars must have THREE lanes each way, and bicyclists can be squeezed into a narrow, dangerous strip along the curb. No, that's not the best case. Even if it were mathematically possible, it would be unacceptable, but the reality is that it's mathematically impossible.

Narrow lanes + sidewalk buffer. Go ride on sidewalk.

Go argue with the PP who insists that bicyclists are a murderous menace to pedestrians and do not belong on the sidewalk.

NP and obviously haven’t read the whole thread but it seems that PP was pointed out the incongruity of providing dedicated space for cyclists for the stated policy purpose of reducing fear of cycling to encourage more cycling while not providing similar consideration for pedestrians. I personally believe it makes sense to provide space for exclusive use of all transportation modes. So traffic lanes for cars. Bus lanes for buses. Bike lanes for cyclists. Sidewalks for pedestrians.

This sounds great. Reconfigure Old Georgetown Road each way to be one lane for cars, one lane for bicyclists and other people using wheeled micromobility (like scooters, motorized wheelchairs, etc.), one lane (the curb lane) for buses, and the sidewalk for pedestrians.

However, I don't think the Old Georgetown Road complainers would agree that this sounds great. They think it should all be for cars.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am pp above. I was returning from Rockville, and started south on OGR from 355. Full of cars going nowhere. At 3:42.

Have you considered using a bike for some of your errands between Bethesda and Rockville? It's a very bikeable distance, the bike lanes are great, and you would avoid sitting in traffic.

I'm looking at Google Traffic right now, 5:00 pm, and Old Georgetown Road is mostly green, with just the regular back-ups at the traffic signals where you would expect there to be back-ups at 5:00 pm on a weekday. The 270 spur and the Inner Loop are solid red. Maybe the bike lanes caused that too.

I was on the road itself. Glad you checked Google traffic.

Nope. Are you a SAHM who can just bike here and there when you choose? And watch the traffic on um, google traffic?

Taking kid to the dentist. Then going grocery shopping further up the pike. Got several bags. Then picking up dry cleaning. So again, a big no.

And my office is many exits away on the beltway, so again, sorry no bikes those days either.

And why don't I live near my office, well let's see...spouse's office is up 270. Maybe we should just own a few homes so we can bike here and there from each one??
Oh, and each time we change jobs we don't want to move our house.

Fair enough???

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was on OGR around 8:30 on Monday and didn’t see any traffic backups at all so maybe SHA was right and people are adapting.

Monday was a holiday. Traffic was light.

I have pictures from 8:15 am on Friday where there is basically no traffic on OGR southbound or northbound. But you'll say that's a holiday weekend too. I'll try to get some from next week when it's not a holiday. And then someone can teach me how to post them! But I'm on the street regularly at various times, and really not noticing any significant backups. It used to be horrendous heading north between 5 and 6 -- would take me 1/2 hour to go 2-3 miles to get my kid to karate. That was from 2014-2019.

Can I ask, did you specifically go out to the road on your to take pictures of traffic? Or were you taking pictures from your car while driving to promote traffic safety? Because both scenarios seem very odd.

Did you also criticize the people who have taken photos while driving for the purpose of complaining about the bike lanes on OGR?

So you did you take pictures with phone while driving your car. Proves that you’re a hypocrite about safety but also proves that even for staunch advocates, these lanes are useless.

No, I am a different PP. I don't know what that other PP did. I do not use my phone while driving. What that other PP's post mostly proves (and my experience confirms) is that the bike lanes have not caused any new backups, except initially during construction. As for uselessness, on the contrary, they've made the road safer overall and also far more useable for bicyclists.

To quote a PP:

“The State Highway Administration has already said that their traffic estimates were wrong - they will be looking at this again once the project is complete.”

Oh, you're the poster whose assertions are simply factually wrong about who did what when. There's no sense in further discussion with you.

“ Del. Marc Korman (D-Dist. 16), whose district includes the Old Georgetown Road bike lanes, said in an email that he has asked SHA officials for a post-installation study to see the project’s impact on traffic times, pollution, and car crashes.”
https://bethesdamagazine.com/2022/12/27/residents-called-for-safety-measures-on-old-georgetown-road-then-the-bike-lanes-showed-up/

The best case for bikers is the restoration of three narrow car lanes and smaller bike lanes, with similar improvements to other arterial roads that are space constrained. The best case for drivers is that SHA leaves everything as is but never does something like this to another arterial road.

If SHA leaves the car lanes narrowed, which they should because it's safer, and and they narrow the buffer between the car lanes and the bike lanes, what do you want them to put in the space currently occupied by the buffer between the car lanes and the bike lanes?

^^^Oh never mind, I see what you're saying: cars must have THREE lanes each way, and bicyclists can be squeezed into a narrow, dangerous strip along the curb. No, that's not the best case. Even if it were mathematically possible, it would be unacceptable, but the reality is that it's mathematically impossible.

Narrow lanes + sidewalk buffer. Go ride on sidewalk.

Go argue with the PP who insists that bicyclists are a murderous menace to pedestrians and do not belong on the sidewalk.

NP and obviously haven’t read the whole thread but it seems that PP was pointed out the incongruity of providing dedicated space for cyclists for the stated policy purpose of reducing fear of cycling to encourage more cycling while not providing similar consideration for pedestrians. I personally believe it makes sense to provide space for exclusive use of all transportation modes. So traffic lanes for cars. Bus lanes for buses. Bike lanes for cyclists. Sidewalks for pedestrians.

This sounds great. Reconfigure Old Georgetown Road each way to be one lane for cars, one lane for bicyclists and other people using wheeled micromobility (like scooters, motorized wheelchairs, etc.), one lane (the curb lane) for buses, and the sidewalk for pedestrians.

However, I don't think the Old Georgetown Road complainers would agree that this sounds great. They think it should all be for cars.

Where do you live? Do you go to work for a living?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I was on OGR around 8:30 on Monday and didn’t see any traffic backups at all so maybe SHA was right and people are adapting.

Monday was a holiday. Traffic was light.

I have pictures from 8:15 am on Friday where there is basically no traffic on OGR southbound or northbound. But you'll say that's a holiday weekend too. I'll try to get some from next week when it's not a holiday. And then someone can teach me how to post them! But I'm on the street regularly at various times, and really not noticing any significant backups. It used to be horrendous heading north between 5 and 6 -- would take me 1/2 hour to go 2-3 miles to get my kid to karate. That was from 2014-2019.

Can I ask, did you specifically go out to the road on your to take pictures of traffic? Or were you taking pictures from your car while driving to promote traffic safety? Because both scenarios seem very odd.

Did you also criticize the people who have taken photos while driving for the purpose of complaining about the bike lanes on OGR?

So you did you take pictures with phone while driving your car. Proves that you’re a hypocrite about safety but also proves that even for staunch advocates, these lanes are useless.

No, I am a different PP. I don't know what that other PP did. I do not use my phone while driving. What that other PP's post mostly proves (and my experience confirms) is that the bike lanes have not caused any new backups, except initially during construction. As for uselessness, on the contrary, they've made the road safer overall and also far more useable for bicyclists.

To quote a PP:

“The State Highway Administration has already said that their traffic estimates were wrong - they will be looking at this again once the project is complete.”

Oh, you're the poster whose assertions are simply factually wrong about who did what when. There's no sense in further discussion with you.

“ Del. Marc Korman (D-Dist. 16), whose district includes the Old Georgetown Road bike lanes, said in an email that he has asked SHA officials for a post-installation study to see the project’s impact on traffic times, pollution, and car crashes.”
https://bethesdamagazine.com/2022/12/27/residents-called-for-safety-measures-on-old-georgetown-road-then-the-bike-lanes-showed-up/

The best case for bikers is the restoration of three narrow car lanes and smaller bike lanes, with similar improvements to other arterial roads that are space constrained. The best case for drivers is that SHA leaves everything as is but never does something like this to another arterial road.

If SHA leaves the car lanes narrowed, which they should because it's safer, and and they narrow the buffer between the car lanes and the bike lanes, what do you want them to put in the space currently occupied by the buffer between the car lanes and the bike lanes?

^^^Oh never mind, I see what you're saying: cars must have THREE lanes each way, and bicyclists can be squeezed into a narrow, dangerous strip along the curb. No, that's not the best case. Even if it were mathematically possible, it would be unacceptable, but the reality is that it's mathematically impossible.

Narrow lanes + sidewalk buffer. Go ride on sidewalk.

Go argue with the PP who insists that bicyclists are a murderous menace to pedestrians and do not belong on the sidewalk.

NP and obviously haven’t read the whole thread but it seems that PP was pointed out the incongruity of providing dedicated space for cyclists for the stated policy purpose of reducing fear of cycling to encourage more cycling while not providing similar consideration for pedestrians. I personally believe it makes sense to provide space for exclusive use of all transportation modes. So traffic lanes for cars. Bus lanes for buses. Bike lanes for cyclists. Sidewalks for pedestrians.

This sounds great. Reconfigure Old Georgetown Road each way to be one lane for cars, one lane for bicyclists and other people using wheeled micromobility (like scooters, motorized wheelchairs, etc.), one lane (the curb lane) for buses, and the sidewalk for pedestrians.

However, I don't think the Old Georgetown Road complainers would agree that this sounds great. They think it should all be for cars.

Where do you live? Do you go to work for a living?

Did you know that people also walk, bike, and take buses to go to work? And that most trips (by car, as well as by walking, biking, and buses) are not for the purposes of going to and from work? And that the typical car is only transporting one person, which means that bike lanes, sidewalks, and bus lanes can all transport way more people in a given amount of space than car lanes?

Old Georgetown Road is a giant road. It goes through areas where people live, go to school, work, shop, and do all the other things people do. It's a high injury corridor, where pedestrians and bicyclists have been killed while going about their daily lives. And now some drivers are absolutely losing their marbles because there are only 4 lanes for cars instead of 6.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I am pp above. I was returning from Rockville, and started south on OGR from 355. Full of cars going nowhere. At 3:42.

Have you considered using a bike for some of your errands between Bethesda and Rockville? It's a very bikeable distance, the bike lanes are great, and you would avoid sitting in traffic.

I'm looking at Google Traffic right now, 5:00 pm, and Old Georgetown Road is mostly green, with just the regular back-ups at the traffic signals where you would expect there to be back-ups at 5:00 pm on a weekday. The 270 spur and the Inner Loop are solid red. Maybe the bike lanes caused that too.

I was on the road itself. Glad you checked Google traffic.

Nope. Are you a SAHM who can just bike here and there when you choose? And watch the traffic on um, google traffic?

Taking kid to the dentist. Then going grocery shopping further up the pike. Got several bags. Then picking up dry cleaning. So again, a big no.

And my office is many exits away on the beltway, so again, sorry no bikes those days either.

And why don't I live near my office, well let's see...spouse's office is up 270. Maybe we should just own a few homes so we can bike here and there from each one??
Oh, and each time we change jobs we don't want to move our house.

Fair enough???

It's possible to do all of these things on a bike, and in fact, people do do these things on a bike. People do those things on buses, too. You personally may choose not to do them on a bike or a bus, but it's a choice, not a necessity. If it takes you 10 minutes longer to do it in a car, you might re-evaluate your choice of transportation, or you might not - again, that's your choice. We all want to do things in the ways we consider the most convenient and comfortable for us. However, I don't think your desire to do those things in a car in 10 minutes less time, is more important than other people's desires to continue being alive and uninjured.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:I was on OGR around 8:30 on Monday and didn’t see any traffic backups at all so maybe SHA was right and people are adapting.

Monday was a holiday. Traffic was light.

I have pictures from 8:15 am on Friday where there is basically no traffic on OGR southbound or northbound. But you'll say that's a holiday weekend too. I'll try to get some from next week when it's not a holiday. And then someone can teach me how to post them! But I'm on the street regularly at various times, and really not noticing any significant backups. It used to be horrendous heading north between 5 and 6 -- would take me 1/2 hour to go 2-3 miles to get my kid to karate. That was from 2014-2019.

Can I ask, did you specifically go out to the road on your to take pictures of traffic? Or were you taking pictures from your car while driving to promote traffic safety? Because both scenarios seem very odd.

Did you also criticize the people who have taken photos while driving for the purpose of complaining about the bike lanes on OGR?

So you did you take pictures with phone while driving your car. Proves that you’re a hypocrite about safety but also proves that even for staunch advocates, these lanes are useless.

No, I am a different PP. I don't know what that other PP did. I do not use my phone while driving. What that other PP's post mostly proves (and my experience confirms) is that the bike lanes have not caused any new backups, except initially during construction. As for uselessness, on the contrary, they've made the road safer overall and also far more useable for bicyclists.

To quote a PP:

“The State Highway Administration has already said that their traffic estimates were wrong - they will be looking at this again once the project is complete.”

Oh, you're the poster whose assertions are simply factually wrong about who did what when. There's no sense in further discussion with you.

“ Del. Marc Korman (D-Dist. 16), whose district includes the Old Georgetown Road bike lanes, said in an email that he has asked SHA officials for a post-installation study to see the project’s impact on traffic times, pollution, and car crashes.”
https://bethesdamagazine.com/2022/12/27/residents-called-for-safety-measures-on-old-georgetown-road-then-the-bike-lanes-showed-up/

The best case for bikers is the restoration of three narrow car lanes and smaller bike lanes, with similar improvements to other arterial roads that are space constrained. The best case for drivers is that SHA leaves everything as is but never does something like this to another arterial road.

If SHA leaves the car lanes narrowed, which they should because it's safer, and and they narrow the buffer between the car lanes and the bike lanes, what do you want them to put in the space currently occupied by the buffer between the car lanes and the bike lanes?

^^^Oh never mind, I see what you're saying: cars must have THREE lanes each way, and bicyclists can be squeezed into a narrow, dangerous strip along the curb. No, that's not the best case. Even if it were mathematically possible, it would be unacceptable, but the reality is that it's mathematically impossible.

Narrow lanes + sidewalk buffer. Go ride on sidewalk.

Go argue with the PP who insists that bicyclists are a murderous menace to pedestrians and do not belong on the sidewalk.

NP and obviously haven’t read the whole thread but it seems that PP was pointed out the incongruity of providing dedicated space for cyclists for the stated policy purpose of reducing fear of cycling to encourage more cycling while not providing similar consideration for pedestrians. I personally believe it makes sense to provide space for exclusive use of all transportation modes. So traffic lanes for cars. Bus lanes for buses. Bike lanes for cyclists. Sidewalks for pedestrians.

This sounds great. Reconfigure Old Georgetown Road each way to be one lane for cars, one lane for bicyclists and other people using wheeled micromobility (like scooters, motorized wheelchairs, etc.), one lane (the curb lane) for buses, and the sidewalk for pedestrians.

However, I don't think the Old Georgetown Road complainers would agree that this sounds great. They think it should all be for cars.

The question is would cyclists agree or would they insist on being able to decide at any moment where they want to ride that serves them? My guess is no. Cyclists have demanded access to every surface and refuse to beheld to using even protected bike lanes where they are provided. Traffic lanes are shared. Dedicated bus lanes are shared. Sidewalks are shared. Do you know what’s not shared? Bike lanes.