Given this conversation, should I encourage or DIScourage an all girl's school for my DD?

[Anonymous]

Hi, new poster here. I had a conversation with my DD this weekend that has me absolutely floored, and grasping for an answer. I thought I would put it to the other DCUMs for your thoughts.

My DD is a 7th grader at a parish school that is co-ed. We were talking a bit this weekend about a neighbor girl who is applying to private schools for ninth grade this year, and led to my asking DD if she has any thoughts yet on what she would like to do -- apply to privates, go on to Good Counsel (like many in her class), transfer to the public high school, etc. To my surprise, DD said that she'd like to find an all-girls school for 9th grade, something I had never really thought about for her before. I asked why, and her response stunned me: "I'm ugly, so boys don't like me. They're never going to like me. I'd at least like to be somewhere that, if I don't have a boyfriend, at least I have an excuse." Her father burst out laughing (I could have killed DH for that), but my poor DD just stared us straight in the eye, dead serious. I just managed not to cry but told DD that her father and I would of course take her preferences into account but there was lots of time left to think about it. She nodded and just walked away. Subsequent attempts by me to raise the topic of why seventh grade social success is NOT the best indicator of future prospects fell on deaf ears.

Obviously, I know that all teenage girls find adolescence a rough time, though I honestly hadn't realized quite how severe DD's apparent self-esteem issues actually are. But it does leave me wondering: is it ever okay to choose single-sex education based on a negative (not wanting to be around boys) rather than a positive (wanting all the good effects that come with being in a world where girls run the show)? I must say, this conversation left me thinking that the school issue is going to be a lot more complicated than I thought. Doesn't help that DH loves the idea of all-girl school, on the theory that every additional year that DD is the star of her own life is only a good thing, with lots of time for boys later.


I would love to hear the thoughts of other Moms (and Dads!) on this issue. Thanks.

[Anonymous]

Yikes! I'm sure you told her how beautiful you think she is! I would talk to someone at her school to see if they see any social issues there with her that might explain her comments. I went to a women's college after co-ed K-12 and thought it was great. I have friends who went to co-ed college after all girls K-12 and had a great experience. I would say, though, that I've heard (this is hearsay, not first hand experience) that all girls schools can be pretty tough socially so don't know that it would be any easier for her there. Girls schools have partner boys schools with which they have dances and put on plays. It wouldn't really go over as an "excuse" ... I think you have some digging to do to see where these issues are coming fro before even moving on to the issues of girls vs. co-ed school.

[Anonymous]

Oh my gosh, YES, we tell DD how beautiful she is almost every day -- and not just generally, but with real specifics so that she knowswe are really paying attention to her and not just spouting generalities. But it's so hard to find the right balance because we also don't want to emphasize appearance too much over other great things like what a sweet, lovable person she is, how much we enjoy her company, etc. I just want to find the right setting that will encourage DD to feel good about herself (at least to the greatest extent that an adolescent girl can). I thought we were on the right track but clearly I am wrong on that.

[Anonymous]

I was also super socially swkward at thatage and beyond, and do think an all-girls school was a great thing for me. Found great, lifelong friends and concentrated on school without worrying as much about my self-image. That being said, I was still insecure, and it's not like girls are nice to each other at that age. I think your dh's reasoning is right, but the trick would be to NOT have dd think she was at a girl-school b/c you accepted her line of thinking on the matter - that would just turn it into a self-fulfilling prophecy.

[Anonymous]

If you're affirming her regularly and it's a surprise to you that she thinks she's ugly, I really would get in touch with the teachers/counselors at her current school to see if something is going on there...

[Anonymous]

Next year, look at both co-ed and single-sex schools. Apply to the ones you (parents) and she think are good choices. See where she gets in. Then decide.

In practice, these are concrete decisions (do we prefer Holton to Good Counsel?) rather than abstract ones (single-sex vs. co-ed). Take her preferences seriously enough to explore different options. Then look for a good fit. Over the course of a year and this kind of search, you and/or she may come to a different set of conclusions re what she needs and where she'll find it.

[Anonymous]

You never know. I have a niece in the sixth grade and she is a beautiful girl--and we tell her so often. She has been feeling a little insecure lately because she is developing faster than the other girls in her class (e.g. hips, bust). A few months, she developed her first crush and apparently the boy told her she was fat and ugly. And she believed it!

The sad part is that at first she wouldn't tell us what happened for a few weeks, because she was embarrassed/ashamed (and I guess thought the boy was right). We just noticed that she seemed kind of down. My point is that when kids are at a young and insecure age (e.g. early puberty), sometimes a unkind word from someone that they admire or care about can really shake up their fragile self esteem.

My niece had mentioned going to an all girls school in the future (she's currently at co-ed), but I had no idea why. Now you have me wondering...

[Anonymous]

Hmmmm.

OP, if you do not believe that your girl is depressed and see no signs of it or anxiety (talk to a counselor at her school to learn more), I would handle it this way:

I would visit a pretty big collection of schools, all types. Co-ed, single-sex, religious, etc. and have create some pro's and con's lists with her. Maybe have her create some questions she would like to ask the kids that go to that school (I went to all-girls my whole life, and in hindsight, it WAS a relief that boys were not there. You could really look like shit and not worry AS much, but it can be as catty and horrible as anything else). I would stop totally refuting her claims of ugliness, not that you tell her that yes, she is ugly, but I would start listening a little more than talking. If every time she says "I am ugly." you say "No, you are BEAUTIFUL!" She will probably start eye-rolling you and getting the idea that you "don't get it". As painful as it is for you say something like "I remember feeling that way when I was your age too. It can feel pretty sad to feel that way." It won't make her MORE insecure, she will be edified to think you understand her.

Find a way to reinforce that confidence, good looks, boys, friends and all of that stuff will be hard and difficult, as well as great and easy in ALL schools. They will ALL have challenges.

Good luck with this...

[Anonymous]

OP: I think the name of the game here is empathy. I think the subject should be less about the school decision for right now, and more about validating how she is feeling. She's clearly not feeling very good about herself, and she has directed the discussion towards that. Therefore that is where she needs support. Put off the school topic and focus on how you can let her know she is supported and validated at home.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP: I think the name of the game here is empathy. I think the subject should be less about the school decision for right now, and more about validating how she is feeling. She's clearly not feeling very good about herself, and she has directed the discussion towards that. Therefore that is where she needs support. Put off the school topic and focus on how you can let her know she is supported and validated at home.

This is GOOD advice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote: I would stop totally refuting her claims of ugliness, not that you tell her that yes, she is ugly, but I would start listening a little more than talking. If every time she says "I am ugly." you say "No, you are BEAUTIFUL!" She will probably start eye-rolling you and getting the idea that you "don't get it". As painful as it is for you say something like "I remember feeling that way when I was your age too. It can feel pretty sad to feel that way." It won't make her MORE insecure, she will be edified to think you understand her..

But this is better advice. No teenage girl feels better about her looks because her parents tell her she's beautiful. (Especially if she knows she's not, at least by conventional standards.)

I do agree with the idea that the school discussion should be separated from the looks/boys/self-esteem discussion. And that the school discussion can wait until it's time to apply.

[Anonymous]

I know several girls who chose an all-girls school because they felt awkward, ugly, fat or that they just didn't fit in. An all girls environment is great for many kinds of girls. I went to an all girls Catholic School and my daughter went to an all girls exclusive private school in this area. We both did really well and feel really confident because of going "all girls". Your daughter should visit several girls schools and see how she feels about them.

It's tough being a teenager...I think too many parents try to belittle that notion. I agree with the posters who say not to say "you're beautiful" every time the daughter says she's ugly. Kids know that parents want to protect them from the harsh realities of life. It might work better to take your daughter out to a mall, out for a walk, whatever...just to give her some time to open up about what really is going on.

[Anonymous]

I think questions to ask are: Why do you feel that way? What makes you think that? Get her to explain why she's where she's at. When I was her age I thought I was ugly because my best friend was a babe and the boys fell all over her and ignored me. It could be that relativity thing.

[Anonymous]

A lot can change in a year, so she might have very different views of what she wants in a high school by the time you are applying next year.

But she did raise a red flag for you to address her self-esteem and body image. Something I wish my parents (mom, in particular) had done for me is teach me about makeup and highlighting the assets I have and how to dress well and with style. My mom didn't really excel in these areas herself, but I really wish I had had more help somehow or another. Ask her if she's interested in having a makeup lesson or makeover or talking to a wardrobe/image consultant. Someone who can help her see her strengths, have confidence in them, and how to make the most of them. As much as it might not be right, how one looks is a big, big deal at this age and through high school.

[Anonymous]

I went to all girls Catholic high school and I loved it. I felt the same way as your daughter but I eventually outgrew that awkward look and feel. It was nice to go to school everyday without the pressure of trying to look pretty or wondering if someone is going to ask you to prom,etc. Great frienships are made when there isn't that added pressure or jealously of such and such likes her and not me, etc. I believe it really helped build my confidence and lifelong friendships. I wouldn't worry about it as it is just a phase (atleast it was for me) and I would encourage her to go to all girls!! It was truly a great experience for me.