Given this conversation, should I encourage or DIScourage an all girl's school for my DD?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Oh wow, 21:37, your post is practically ringing "ding ding ding!" in my head. Yes, DD has indeed been with virtually the entire same group of children since preschool, boys and girls alike. And now that you mention it, the only co-ed activity she participates in on a regular basis is youth group at church, with many of the members also being her classmates from school. Otherwise, DD plays softball and basketball on all-girl teams, takes dance classes (all girls) and participates in girl scouts -- no boys there. To top it all off, she's our only child, so no brothers, etc.

Hmmm. Hearing you phrase the matter like this really does make me wonder -- perhaps DD actually needs to spend more time around boys, not less (even if she seems very intimidated/uncomfortable by the prospect right now). I am not going to push it now, when the poor kid is vulnerable as it is, but it definitely puts the co-ed/single sex issue into a new light for me. At a minimum, looking at it from this angle makes me think we should at least encourage DD to pursue some extracurricular activities that are co-ed, perhaps a youth band or theater productions or something. Just so she can meet some boys she doesn't know, get a better sense that they are not these alien creatures, and maybe also meet some boys who won't think of her as a "sister".

God, there are some smart people posting to this board! Our children should be grateful to us for doing so, not that they ever will be -- it really helps to close the clueless parent gap.

Most girls do not date in ms. In the private school environment most don't date in hs.......hook-ups and getting "dates" or escorts to dances is more the norm. Big party groups and at public hs girls go to homecoming and other stuff even in all girl groups. girls school hc dances are usually not dates ---winter formal is but mostly walk-in with escort.

[Anonymous]

Kids don't date in MS but there is plenty of pre dating activity which is almost worse from a self esteem perspective, especially in a small school. My dd went to a small k-8 school and the MS years were hard, especially on the girls. The girls seemed to be much more interested in the pre dating activities than the boys so there was a high ratio of girls to boys. As a result it was pretty easy for feelings to be hurt. There is also intense pressure for conformity in MS. In HS there seems to be more acceptance of differences.

My dd is now at a girl's HS and it's been great. But consistent with what others have posted we did not specifically seek out a girl's HS - in fact this was the only one she applied to. But it turned out the be the school she liked the best and it's been a great environment.

[Anonymous]

PP makes excellent points. I too have an older daughter and would agree that the current social culture is vastly different from anything we mothers went through at that age. Many well-intentioned people on this board are writing based on their own experiences, but you should seek out advice from mothers with older daughters if you can.

[Anonymous]

I have been following this discussion, and, as a father with a 3yo daughter, I don't have anything to add. But, as a father with a 3yo daughter, I am now terrified.

[Anonymous]

That's good you are following the discussion dad pp. Actually how fathers react and deal with their daughters has so much to do with how our daughters relate to men in general. At this point -- for a 3 year old -- you are the center of her world. If you continue to do activities with her as she ages -- she'll do just great.

My daughter is a freshman in college and an only child. She went to an all-girls school. She had really tough times in middle school -- and now is just beautiful. My husband had a lot of activities he did with her alone -- snowboarding, golfing, running, etc. She really values all of her time she spent with "good old dad". She's very tough because he always treated her like she could do anything...she's fearless thanks to dad...I'm a big scardy cat.

[Anonymous]

This has been a very interesting and helpful discussion for many people, and I hope it helps you and your daughter, OP.

I wanted to chime in that for me, always a person of below-average looks, an all-girls school would have been horrible. I relished the company of boys because they actually seemed less judgmental about looks. You could actually hold a conversation about something other than appearance and romance...maybe sports, school, or music.

Though I am sure this is not true for all, the "popular girl" crowd can, I've heard, be devastatingly shallow and appearance-conscious at all-girls schools. Based on my own experience--admittedly quite a while ago---I, personally, would never seek out an all-girls environment for my daughter.

To the Dad who posted above: I love the comments of 10:40. In addition to helping your daughter develop her talents, skills, and mind, another wonderful thing you can do is to resolve to NEVER make a negative or even quasi-negative comment about your daughter's appearance as she grows. To this day, I can recall every comment my otherwise-loving father made about my appearance: I was "round" compared to my sisters (I am quite small, actually), I was "the intelligent one" compared to my "glamorous" sisters....You get the picture. It is probably pathetic to admit this, but these comments completely colored my view of myself. My husband has enthusiastically agreed that the only comments he will ever make about our daughter's appearance are that she is beautiful, the apple of his eye, and that she is as wonderful on the inside as she is on the outside, etc.

[Anonymous]

Thanks pp -- I'm 10:40 again. You are so right about advising "dad" never to make any negative comments about his daughter's looks. I know my dad always had something negative to say about I was too thin or too fat or too something negative (fill in the blank). I think I cringe when men in the workplace try to give "constructive" criticism because it reminds me of my dad. Thankfully, my husband is a dream.

[Anonymous]

I agree with 11:07 -- for me, guys provided an essential haven in MS/HS from girl-driven group dynamics (gossip, fashion, cliques) and that seems to be true for my 12 yo daughter as well. With guys, things were actually less complicated -- you could just play (I had a standing racquetball game at lunch in middle school; my daughter has long-running freeze-tag and monkey-in-the-middle games) and you could talk about ideas rather than relationships and people.

Of course maybe we curvy nerd-girls had it particularly good in that respect. The guys we talked to were delighted to have friends who were real live girls and they tended to lead with their brains rather than with other parts of their anatomy.

Re the dad issue. I think there's research to suggest that one of the major factors determining whether a woman is successful and happy is the nature of her relationship with her father. Take your daughters seriously and they'll demand other men do so as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This has been a very interesting and helpful discussion for many people, and I hope it helps you and your daughter, OP.

I wanted to chime in that for me, always a person of below-average looks, an all-girls school would have been horrible. I relished the company of boys because they actually seemed less judgmental about looks. You could actually hold a conversation about something other than appearance and romance...maybe sports, school, or music.

Though I am sure this is not true for all, the "popular girl" crowd can, I've heard, be devastatingly shallow and appearance-conscious at all-girls schools. Based on my own experience--admittedly quite a while ago---I, personally, would never seek out an all-girls environment for my daughter.

.

I think you may be basing that on your perceptions rather than reality. I don't think my daughter at an all girls school is having many conversations with her friends about appearance and romance. They are focused on school, college, sports, internships, and other things. There also seems to be much less of the popular girl dynamic than I"ve seen in coed schools, at least at her school. I'm sure different girls schools have different personalilites but I would not dismiss the concept based on a stereotype.

[Anonymous]

agree pp. Many studies have been done of top women leaders. Many went to either all girls high schools or colleges. Because there are no boys -- girls get all of the leadership positions at an all girls school and get all of the sports spots. Have you ever noticed on It's Academic -- many of the public schools have all boys teams. Where are the smart girls at those public schools? I wish someone would protest.

[Anonymous]

OP here, again. Well, I finally got an answer from DD this evening as to what inspired her self-critical comments mentioned in the first post. The answer was as simple as it was heartbreaking: apparently, she's nursed a terrible crush for months on an 8th grade boy. (I had no idea). During snowpocalypse, this boy invited several classmates over to his house to play video games, 7th and 8th graders alike -- and DD wasn't one of them. That's it, that's all, but it broke her heart and she has convinced herself that it must be due to her being less attractive than the girls who _were_ invited.

I have no idea where it came from -- perhaps this board, who knows? -- but for once in my life I actually managed to shut my mouth and not spew an entire list of entirely logical reasons why DD may not have been invited that have nothing to do with her. Rather, I just said things like, "That sounds very sad" or "How do you feel about that?", etc. It doesn't come naturally to me but I really, really tried and DD seemed to appreciate the effort; if nothing else, she spoke for longer and with more detail than usual, and that was a gift in and of itself. I don't think we fixed everything, but at least she had a chance to get everything off her chest, and I now feel like I have a better understanding of what is going on in her head. I think it is just going to take time and some of the strategies discussed above to help DD see herself as we do: the most beautiful, lovable girl in the world, inside AND out. Just like every other beautiful, lovable girl whose Mom (or Dad!) took the time to post on this board.

Thank you all again for all of the wonderful contributions above. They really did help.

[Anonymous]

Great story -- thanks for letting us know!

If you haven't already read How to Talk So Kids Will Listen & Listen So Kids Will Talk, you might want to check it out. I thought it was really smart and interesting on this topic. In fact, I should probably re-read it as DC approaches puberty!!

[Anonymous]

They are focused on school, college, sports, internships, and other things.

Well. let's hope so. But a lot of posters here thought the way to deal with someone who doesn't think she's pretty is to try to make her feel pretty. (Lots of them didn't, too, and YAY pps who didn't.)

Also, is anyone else having horrible flashbacks to being 13? Just me?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here, again. Well, I finally got an answer from DD this evening as to what inspired her self-critical comments mentioned in the first post. The answer was as simple as it was heartbreaking: apparently, she's nursed a terrible crush for months on an 8th grade boy. (I had no idea). During snowpocalypse, this boy invited several classmates over to his house to play video games, 7th and 8th graders alike -- and DD wasn't one of them. That's it, that's all, but it broke her heart and she has convinced herself that it must be due to her being less attractive than the girls who _were_ invited.

I have no idea where it came from -- perhaps this board, who knows? -- but for once in my life I actually managed to shut my mouth and not spew an entire list of entirely logical reasons why DD may not have been invited that have nothing to do with her. Rather, I just said things like, "That sounds very sad" or "How do you feel about that?", etc. It doesn't come naturally to me but I really, really tried and DD seemed to appreciate the effort; if nothing else, she spoke for longer and with more detail than usual, and that was a gift in and of itself. I don't think we fixed everything, but at least she had a chance to get everything off her chest, and I now feel like I have a better understanding of what is going on in her head. I think it is just going to take time and some of the strategies discussed above to help DD see herself as we do: the most beautiful, lovable girl in the world, inside AND out. Just like every other beautiful, lovable girl whose Mom (or Dad!) took the time to post on this board.

Thank you all again for all of the wonderful contributions above. They really did help.

I would recommend a coed school. And not a small one. As a parent of a high school boy who overhears stuff I really don't like the massive aggression on-line and in person from the fine young women at most SS schools. The single sex girls schools don't have opportunities to meet boys in a more natural environment like classes and activities. Although there is some coed stuff at NCS-STA.

[Anonymous]

Total stereotype pp -- really? "Most" SS schools? Sounds like you have a problem with the power of women.