Prepping/Scamming the Cogat

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:GoCAT: Follow the money $$$

It is a multibillion dollar industry in the US (WPPSI,GoCAT, SSAT,ERB, ISEE, ACT, SAT, AP, GRE, MCAT, LSAT, Toeffl,WISC, MSA, Pearson, Washington Post, Princeton review, Aristotle, Kaplan, State tests, Explore, Raven...feel free to add to the list

Do I have to show you how to read stock market reports, too?

I am going to pick on one of these tests listed TOEFL: The test of english as a foreign language. First of all no american has to take it. The test is designed to determine if the applicant to graduate school is proficient in english, that is will he or she succeed in the US graduate program. What has happened to the test is that, since the US graduate schools are the best in the world, students want to do well. So, they study for the test. They learn what they need to ace the test. In the 80's and 90's when I was involved in the grad school application process, we admitted students we would get applicants from other countries (China mostly) who had near perfect TOEFL scores. They also had perfect GRE scores, etc. Based on the TOEFL scores, we assumed they could speak english So some owuld even be assigned teaching assistantships.

The students arrived at our school, but could not speak nor understand english. They could read english. But they could not be a TA. We had to rework our classes such that they were doing non-teaching jobs. Ok....They would take there classes, cram for the tests, to well in the classes. But, when it was time for their qualifying exams, they largely failed....in fact, none of that cohort graduated. This was in my small program. Talking to faculty at other universities, the story was not unique.

So that is the danger of prepping for the TOEFL: it put the students (in there 20's) in a position where they would fail. Prepping for the CogAT probably has less risk but definitely less gain. My belief is that any kid that can be prepped to a good score would do fine in AAP. But the score is not what is getting them in AAP anyway.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Sorry, no one buys the whole "entitled culture" thing. There were numerous posts discounting that idea and showing why it does not pertain here.

Wrong. I do. Your posts confirm its' application here.

From reading this forum, the only entitled culture I see would be the "intellectually superior" Asians. They are entitled to the AAP spots, TJ spots....because even if a nonAsian used the same prep materials, they couldn't possibly score as high as Asian kids.....

[Anonymous]

From reading this forum, the only entitled culture I see would be the "intellectually superior" Asians. They are entitled to the AAP spots, TJ spots....because even if a nonAsian used the same prep materials, they couldn't possibly score as high as Asian kids.....

Not so,since these new arrivals have not permeated leadership positions in The City, County, State, FCPS and Congress where new policy and other tricks are hatched. It is clear most Americans do not even know their own history or geography...a systemic problem among entitled groups. No wonder they have problems with simple math to boot.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

From reading this forum, the only entitled culture I see would be the "intellectually superior" Asians. They are entitled to the AAP spots, TJ spots....because even if a nonAsian used the same prep materials, they couldn't possibly score as high as Asian kids.....

Not so,since these new arrivals have not permeated leadership positions in The City, County, State, FCPS and Congress where new policy and other tricks are hatched. It is clear most Americans do not even know their own history or geography...a systemic problem among entitled groups. No wonder they have problems with simple math to boot.

Except you ignore data. The CEO of the country is now European white. My delegate to Richmond is Korean American.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

From reading this forum, the only entitled culture I see would be the "intellectually superior" Asians. They are entitled to the AAP spots, TJ spots....because even if a nonAsian used the same prep materials, they couldn't possibly score as high as Asian kids.....

Not so,since these new arrivals have not permeated leadership positions in The City, County, State, FCPS and Congress where new policy and other tricks are hatched. It is clear most Americans do not even know their own history or geography...a systemic problem among entitled groups. No wonder they have problems with simple math to boot.

Just because you haven't permeated leadership positions doesn't mean you don't feel entitled. Rage on all you want, it just makes you arrogant with a sense of entitlement. Everyone else on the forum, can you just use the prep tests so we can shut these "intellectually superior"people up.

[Anonymous]

Tut,tut,tut.

[Anonymous]

Just because you haven't permeated leadership positions doesn't mean you don't feel entitled. Rage on all you want, it just makes you arrogant with a sense of entitlement. Everyone else on the forum, can you just use the prep tests so we can shut these "intellectually superior"people up.

Don't forget to leave your name with Madame Carol of AAP. Just a reminder to this poster

[Anonymous]

Just because you haven't permeated leadership positions doesn't mean you don't feel entitled. Rage on all you want, it just makes you arrogant with a sense of entitlement. Everyone else on the forum, can you just use the prep tests so we can shut these "intellectually superior"people up.

A reminder to this poster. Heed your own advise and don't forget to leave your name with Madame Carol of AAP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Just because you haven't permeated leadership positions doesn't mean you don't feel entitled. Rage on all you want, it just makes you arrogant with a sense of entitlement. Everyone else on the forum, can you just use the prep tests so we can shut these "intellectually superior"people up.

A reminder to this poster. Heed your own advise and don't forget to leave your name with Madame Carol of AAP.

Will do.

[Anonymous]

It is funny...the people that complain the most about others feeling are entitled clearly think they themselves are intitled.

[Anonymous]

Hilarious. Self-segregation is the ultimate goal of just about every parent in DC area. People pay insane amounts for housing and spend hours each day commuting to their jobs so that their kids can go to segregated schools. And when they succeed, someone writes an article denouncing it? Where does the author live? In Anacostia? Or does he simply avoid the issue by sending his kids to St.Albans?

I agree, totally agree.

This is an interesting piece:

http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2013/04/14/_.html

"You can call a facility "public" all you like, but if the only way to gain access to it is to first buy your way into an expensive neighborhood then there's nothing public about it."

In South Africa in the last century we called this State ...apartheid.

It sounds like the educational structure/system in the DC area is based on this organization structure/policy...apartheid.

[Anonymous]

In every zip code in America the children of recent immigrants are outperforming children of the entitled culture. This has created an ever expanding performance and achievement gap in education as the entitled culture witnesses in every zip code these children taking their self anointed spots in every AAP, gifted program, IB, AP and Honors program in the land. This is the root cause of this furor. And the entitled culture will go to any unethical length to disrupt this trend -- including voter fraud and suppression"

[Anonymous]

"social engineering prep" is ethical and does not constitute cheating. But, "test prep", if it messes with my social engineering plans should be outlawed

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

In every zip code in America the children of recent immigrants are outperforming children of the entitled culture. This has created an ever expanding performance and achievement gap in education as the entitled culture witnesses in every zip code these children taking their self anointed spots in every AAP, gifted program, IB, AP and Honors program in the land. This is the root cause of this furor. And the entitled culture will go to any unethical length to disrupt this trend -- including voter fraud and suppression"

Who keeps posting this and why?

[Anonymous]

I am going to pick on one of these tests listed TOEFL: The test of english as a foreign language. First of all no american has to take it. The test is designed to determine if the applicant to graduate school is proficient in english, that is will he or she succeed in the US graduate program. What has happened to the test is that, since the US graduate schools are the best in the world, students want to do well. So, they study for the test. They learn what they need to ace the test. In the 80's and 90's when I was involved in the grad school application process, we admitted students we would get applicants from other countries (China mostly) who had near perfect TOEFL scores. They also had perfect GRE scores, etc. Based on the TOEFL scores, we assumed they could speak english So some owuld even be assigned teaching assistantships.

The students arrived at our school, but could not speak nor understand english. They could read english. But they could not be a TA. We had to rework our classes such that they were doing non-teaching jobs. Ok....They would take there classes, cram for the tests, to well in the classes. But, when it was time for their qualifying exams, they largely failed....in fact, none of that cohort graduated. This was in my small program. Talking to faculty at other universities, the story was not unique.

So that is the danger of prepping for the TOEFL: it put the students (in there 20's) in a position where they would fail. Prepping for the CogAT probably has less risk but definitely less gain. My belief is that any kid that can be prepped to a good score would do fine in AAP. But the score is not what is getting them in AAP anyway.

Since when does a multiple choice bubble exam correlate with listening, comprehending and speaking a foreign language?
My high performance in SAT language exams (French) does not translate to listening and speaking French.

Have you ever taken the Toefl or an SAT language exam? I doubt it or you would never make such a preposterous correlation...multiple choice pencil bubbling is equivalent to listening, understanding and speaking a foreign language.