Why don't you believe in God?

[Anonymous]

I do believe in God, but for reasons that PP have mentioned, I prefer to keep my interactions with God separate from a church. A belief in and faith in God sustains me through a lot of trials and helps me be a less anxious person in life in general. But I don't feel close to God in a church the way I do when I just sit and quietly pray by myself.

[Anonymous]

One of the primary reasons why I do not believe is that I cannot wrap my head around the idea of a deity who takes an active role in individuals' lives. I once heard a woman, who after receiving a compliment on her new pants, explain that she had "prayed on them." The pants went on sale and the store still had her size; she apparently thought this was the result of her prayer or some measure of divine intervention. Frankly, if God is delivering nice sale pants to people who ask for such things instead of preventing children from getting sick or being abused, then I don't want anything to do with God.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:One of the primary reasons why I do not believe is that I cannot wrap my head around the idea of a deity who takes an active role in individuals' lives. I once heard a woman, who after receiving a compliment on her new pants, explain that she had "prayed on them." The pants went on sale and the store still had her size; she apparently thought this was the result of her prayer or some measure of divine intervention. Frankly, if God is delivering nice sale pants to people who ask for such things instead of preventing children from getting sick or being abused, then I don't want anything to do with God.

Totally agree.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have been reading DCUM for a while now, and I feel steeped in broken marriages, angry/depressed/overwhelmed parents, misbehaving children, and general snarkiness. Almost never do I see a reference to a deep and profound faith, or even a thought about a Creator. I do see plenty of snide comments about faith being only for the stupid, the weak, the unthinking, but I can't recall a single specific reason as to why belief in a Creator is so obviously dumb.

So now is your chance: if you do not believe in God, why not? Have you wrestled with this question and constructed a tight argument, or do you just not particularly care?

I'm happily married with two wonderful kids, and a part-time career that I find rewarding.

I'm also an atheist.

I don't have faith. I don't feel it. I have no experience of God. I don't feel the need. I can't get to God rationally, either. I don't agree with many, many things Christianity teaches, especially about sexuality. I tried really hard to find faith, but it's just not there. I finally gave up and accepted that I don't believe. I was raised as a Catholic. It was a hard step for me.

It actually does not really matter what you believe. What matters is what is true, what is real. You could believe you can fly, or that the moon is made of green cheese, but that would be your misfortune. The truth would stand independent of your beliefs.

That is the case for God. And that is the case for morality.

The truth about right and wrong is independent of our beliefs about right and wrong. It has to be. Because either it is independent, or it is dependent. And if it is dependent, then it is not really right and wrong at all. It is just an opinion.

Start at the beginning. Start with morality.

Oh, sweetie... when I look at the God question rationally, I see absolutely no room for God. It is clear to me that we evolved and morality is a function of our inherent nature as primates who live in troupes.

[Anonymous]

I read some of these and think, "who knew, some atheists give as little thought to nonbelief as some believers give to their belief." Of course God isn't delivering pants on sale to some woman you overheard, nor is he delivering games for Tebow. However, the question "why do bad things happen to good people" is a serious issue that deserves a serious discussion, not this casual dismissal via some spurious analogy with some pants-wearing woman somewhere. Not sure DCUM is the place for serious discussion, however.

[Anonymous]

Because I came to know science first. I am guessing a similar reason for why people believe, they came to know God first.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I read some of these and think, "who knew, some atheists give as little thought to nonbelief as some believers give to their belief." Of course God isn't delivering pants on sale to some woman you overheard, nor is he delivering games for Tebow. However, the question "why do bad things happen to good people" is a serious issue that deserves a serious discussion, not this casual dismissal via some spurious analogy with some pants-wearing woman somewhere. Not sure DCUM is the place for serious discussion, however.

I have asked that question before of believers and never received an adequate response. "God's plan" isn't cutting it for me. If God cared about life and love, why isn't he delivering a cure for malaria, cancer and other such terrible things? Seriously, it's like choosing to let millions of children within reach drown just because you can. That's not moral or just. It's seriously effed up!

Also, anyone who claims morality came from God should spend some time reading the Old Testament. There's a reason we don't follow so many of those rules anymore....our morality has evolved.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Because I came to know science first. I am guessing a similar reason for why people believe, they came to know God first.

I was raised Catholic, but majored in a hard science. I'm an atheist now. I had a pretty strong faith as a kid, but I outgrew it, along with Santa and the Easter Bunny.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Because I came to know science first. I am guessing a similar reason for why people believe, they came to know God first.

God loves science. He made it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because I came to know science first. I am guessing a similar reason for why people believe, they came to know God first.

I was raised Catholic, but majored in a hard science. I'm an atheist now. I had a pretty strong faith as a kid, but I outgrew it, along with Santa and the Easter Bunny.

That's interesting. The religious people I know who have STEM jobs were raised in their particular faith and probably would not believe if they were not raised to believe first.

[Anonymous]

Oh, sweetie... when I look at the God question rationally, I see absolutely no room for God. It is clear to me that we evolved and morality is a function of our inherent nature as primates who live in troupes.

OK, let's assume you are correct. There is a high price to pay for that position. If morality is just something that emanates from the mishmash of atoms that comprise a particular human being's perspective, then nothing is actually wrong. Child rape, genocide, wife beating...not actually wrong. Sure, you personally may find those things wrong, and you might even get a coercive power to say they are wrong, but they are not wrong independent of you and your henchmen. Another powerful group comes along who disagrees with you, and they will then have their list of things that are wrong, like women having the right to vote and black people having equal rights to white people. And so on and so on.

Morality means nothing if it is dependent on human perspective and power. Without an Absolute Authority, it's all the same, from Gandhi to ripping hearts out of living children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Oh, sweetie... when I look at the God question rationally, I see absolutely no room for God. It is clear to me that we evolved and morality is a function of our inherent nature as primates who live in troupes.

OK, let's assume you are correct. There is a high price to pay for that position. If morality is just something that emanates from the mishmash of atoms that comprise a particular human being's perspective, then nothing is actually wrong. Child rape, genocide, wife beating...not actually wrong. Sure, you personally may find those things wrong, and you might even get a coercive power to say they are wrong, but they are not wrong independent of you and your henchmen. Another powerful group comes along who disagrees with you, and they will then have their list of things that are wrong, like women having the right to vote and black people having equal rights to white people. And so on and so on.

Morality means nothing if it is dependent on human perspective and power. Without an Absolute Authority, it's all the same, from Gandhi to ripping hearts out of living children.

Not that PP here. This is part of why we fight wars. As much as we believe in our culture's standard of morality, there is another group of people who believe they are right and we are completely wrong. Talibans, for example. Each side sees the other side as the devil.

[Anonymous]

I don't see why anyone considers a cosmetologist to have cornered the truth on anything. Why would frittering with hairstyles all day make you more knowledgable about this?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Oh, sweetie... when I look at the God question rationally, I see absolutely no room for God. It is clear to me that we evolved and morality is a function of our inherent nature as primates who live in troupes.

OK, let's assume you are correct. There is a high price to pay for that position. If morality is just something that emanates from the mishmash of atoms that comprise a particular human being's perspective, then nothing is actually wrong. Child rape, genocide, wife beating...not actually wrong. Sure, you personally may find those things wrong, and you might even get a coercive power to say they are wrong, but they are not wrong independent of you and your henchmen. Another powerful group comes along who disagrees with you, and they will then have their list of things that are wrong, like women having the right to vote and black people having equal rights to white people. And so on and so on.

Morality means nothing if it is dependent on human perspective and power. Without an Absolute Authority, it's all the same, from Gandhi to ripping hearts out of living children.

Not that PP here. This is part of why we fight wars. As much as we believe in our culture's standard of morality, there is another group of people who believe they are right and we are completely wrong. Talibans, for example. Each side sees the other side as the devil.

Indeed. And under the materialist version, everyone is right unto themselves and nothing is actually wrong. We are just collections of cosmic dust, which come together and fall apart; higher order animals in a natural selection struggle, somehow needing to delude ourselves with fairy tales to rationalize our choices.

But there IS a law of human nature, just as there are laws of the physical world, all of which we simply observe and discover--we do not create.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Oh, sweetie... when I look at the God question rationally, I see absolutely no room for God. It is clear to me that we evolved and morality is a function of our inherent nature as primates who live in troupes.

OK, let's assume you are correct. There is a high price to pay for that position. If morality is just something that emanates from the mishmash of atoms that comprise a particular human being's perspective, then nothing is actually wrong. Child rape, genocide, wife beating...not actually wrong. Sure, you personally may find those things wrong, and you might even get a coercive power to say they are wrong, but they are not wrong independent of you and your henchmen. Another powerful group comes along who disagrees with you, and they will then have their list of things that are wrong, like women having the right to vote and black people having equal rights to white people. And so on and so on.

Morality means nothing if it is dependent on human perspective and power. Without an Absolute Authority, it's all the same, from Gandhi to ripping hearts out of living children.

Not that PP here. This is part of why we fight wars. As much as we believe in our culture's standard of morality, there is another group of people who believe they are right and we are completely wrong. Talibans, for example. Each side sees the other side as the devil.

Indeed. And under the materialist version, everyone is right unto themselves and nothing is actually wrong. We are just collections of cosmic dust, which come together and fall apart; higher order animals in a natural selection struggle, somehow needing to delude ourselves with fairy tales to rationalize our choices.

But there IS a law of human nature, just as there are laws of the physical world, all of which we simply observe and discover--we do not create.

Ok but is there a requirement that you have to believe in God to understand and abide by these laws? Can an atheist not be good and morale without needing a God?